Forgive, Don't Forget

[placton]

One of the themes that emerged at my mom's funeral yesterday was forgiveness. As a Hillary supporter who has now seen even William Pitt trash Hillary, I thought of that very word. Obama will be nominated, that seems clear. I will support him. Any rational human must.

Between now and November, my forgiveness will be carried into action by my support and my vote.

But then I am not prepared to forget, because I am not a fool. Certain (Many? Most? Almost all?) Obama supporters acted contrary to the interest of our party and even common decency. That was their choice, even as they watched what it did to our party - and their former friends like me. Obama's campaign was right in the middle of all this.

My choice then will be:
-never to watch Keith-O again, as he reached beneath Bill-o status
-not to read Will Pitt, or buy his books, altho I have for years
-to put Donna Brazile and her ilk into my "Zell Miller/Joe Lieberman" file - and to remember when next they seek my support
-never again to read Buzz-Flash, which went from reliable website to unreadable
-to have little future use for the opinions of many on DU - a site I have supported with articles and finances since its founding - but I will be here, because at least it is not QUITE as bad as Kos or Eschaton during what should have been a joyful time.

BTW, youngsters, I worked for Bobby and John Kennedy - and Obama is no.... well, I forgive. But please don't ask me to forget.

[TwilightGardener]

1. Sorry about your mom--prayers and peace for you and your family.

[movonne]

2. I think in time you might forgive...we all have been very hot in discussions

here and it takes time to let these things go...and I do think this has happen on both sides..as we know time does seem to heal all or most things...

[stillcool]

3. I will never forget...

but I've already forgiven. I think a lot of good has come out of this Primary Season. A separating of the wheat from the shaft in terms or racism, principles, and the lengths people will go to get what they want, and that democrats are just as vile as republicans. All the ugliness that has been exposed has allowed me to see, that the problem is not the government, it is not the media, it is 'we the people'. The only way anything can change, is to first realize what needs to be changed. The best part is that there are more of us that no longer buy the bullshit than I thought.

[Hoof Hearted]

46. That's "chaff," not "shaft"

[stillcool]

50. thanks...

I've been mis-naming that for like 40 years! I thought it was the stem like part of the wheat.

[Hoof Hearted]

54. Yer welcome. The chaff is the outer, unusable part of the seed.

Pretty, but thoroughly indigestible.

[helderheid]

4. My condolences to you. I'm so sorry to hear about your mom.

[frickaline]

5. I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you for your thoughts. K&R

[iamthebandfanman]

6. sorry to hear about your mother

but not that even after announcing that you still take a swipe at obama and his supporters.

its funny how people disregard all the people theyve supported in the past because they have one disagreemnt.

really shows the maturity of both sides.

im glad i didnt abandon people after Dean lost in 04.

i wanted to, but i got over it.

[Arugula Latte]

7. I'm still furious with Clinton and her crew ... but I'm hoping my anger will subside soon.

Sorry about your mom. Hopefully we can all unite.

[OzarkDem]

8. Good post

If they want my vote they'll have to earn it.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Doctor.]

44. Explain what they've done that makes you decide not to support the Dem nominee.

And give examples.

Thanks!

[City Lights]

9. My deepest sympathy to you on the loss of your mom.

I've been there and know how hard it is.

Peace to you. :hug:

[ruggerson]

10. Very rational post

it's okay to vote for Obama and also realize that many of his online supporters are, well, assholes.

But, remember, this is an online forum and gasbags usually predominate in these kinds of environments.

Obama supporters in real life (as opposed to the 24 hour a day keyboard commandos) in my experience anyway, are largely rational and committed and respectful. They viewed Clinton as a worthy adversary, not as some cartoon villian. They are Democrats, just like you and I.

My sincere condolences to your family.

[TexasObserver]

11. Not another one.

I have never seen such pathetic conduct by Democrats who lost in the past 36 years in this party. What is it with those of you who think the election is about your personal emotional state? I don't give a damn if you ever "forgive" the Obama camp for anything. I don't care to hear your attacks, your complaints, your wailing about how you and your girl got done wrong.

Be a grown up and vote your interests. If you can't do that, stay at home with the other cry babies.

[ruggerson]

15. He is voting his interests

he's supporting Obama. It's right there in black and white in the OP. Read it.

[Darth_Kitten]

42. Gee, you are an empathetic one, eh?

:eyes:

[The Doctor.]

45. What does that have to do with anything?

Clue; It doesn't.

The poster is expressing a vindictive attitude toward sites and personalities that offended his sensitivities.

Why can't we comment on that?

[Lerkfish]

12. you're going to need a taller bus.

to hold all the people you're throwing under it.

[The Doctor.]

13. Sorry for your loss. But I'm afraid that I cannot overlook

the true vindictiveness of your post simply because you so conveniently interjected her funeral into it.

If you want to smear people and sites that rightfully pointed out Clinton's ridiculous behavior, do it in a separate post from the one where you tell us about the death of your mother. Using her as a shield to deflect the criticism you would have otherwise rightfully received for your petty dejection is very transparent. I'm sad that anyone has fallen for it.

I find that shallow, but I can forgive it.

Again, I'm sorry for your loss, and I would be happy to expound on my condolences, and have you discuss her life and what she meant to you in another thread.

[BlooInBloo]

17. Yup.

[ruggerson]

18. "conveniently injected her funeral into it"

what kind of monster are you? Seriously. Go the fuck away.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

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[The Doctor.]

40. Yes, then anyone who attacked the post would be called a 'monster'.

It was a great way to sick attack dogs on anyone who pointed out that the content of the post was petty.

And look! It worked!

Like I've said, and like I'll keep saying; "If the poster really wanted to talk about forgiveness, the "I'll never forget all the mean people" meme wouldn't be there. If they really wanted to grieve, then there would be nothing politically oriented in the post... especially not the sort of posturing in the OP.

If he wants to post this on it's own, I'll be happy to share my sympathies, but telling us 'my mom just died' and 'I'm never going to forget all those mean people!' isn't precisely 'enlightened'. It's more of a way of defelcting criticism by recruiting the "how dare you!" crowd... and here you are.

You don't like my pointing out that this is not an appropriate way to use the passing of a loved one?

Fine, knock yourself out.

If you don't want me responding to this personal attack on me, then you should find a way to delete it. Capiche?

[rodeodance]

34. the funeral was the reason for the post. No injection.

[The Doctor.]

39. No, the 'reason' for the post was to tell everyone that he plans on showing 'forgiveness'

by spurning people and websites that had the audacity to treat Hillary Clinton like a candidate for the nomination, and then telling us that he's going to 'forgive' everyone just enough to support the Democratic candidate, and all this magnanimous 'forgiveness' is inspired by his mother ('who's funeral was just the other day').

'But I'm NOT going to forget how mean everyone was.'

-Whatever.

I would not taint the death of a loved one with an equivocal display of 'forgiveness' and pettiness.


If he wants to post a thread about her life and accept our condolences there, then I'll be happy to share my sympathies.

Other than that, I'm outta here.

Have at it.

[MethuenProgressive]

52. Using this thread to attack the OP shows an enormous lack of human decency.

It's become no less than stalking.

[Tatiana]

16. My condolences to you on your loss.

This is a fair post. You will vote for the nominee and I appreciate that.

I hope that there comes a time when events transpire to cause you to revisit some of the other sentiments.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

20. condolences on the loss of your mom, placton

many of the folks you cite will be among the first to fall out of love with obama when he fails to deliver on the magic he's promised, or rather, implied he can deliver. at any rate, i will be relieved when this psychodrama is over, and the next one begins.

[murielm99]

21. Forgiveness is a very tough thing.

Even when the intent to forgive is there, it takes time and perspective first. Sometimes it takes action.

They will have my vote, too, but not much else. My loyalty, time and money will go to Democrats downticket. I am not convinced that Obama has coattails.

I hope you find some things to do for the party that will help. When Bobby died, my mother did something that I thought was very mean at the time. After I had moped around for a couple of weeks, she forced me to go out and canvas for a Democratic mayoral candidate. She told me that we still had an election, and that there would be time to mourn later. I was only twenty at the time, working a summer job while home from college. Action did help.

Some Democrats may have trust issues for a very long time, or perhaps always after the way we have been treated. I hope we will not be mourning the death of our party and the loss of an election in November. There is much to be done.

My condolences for losing your mother.

[papapi]

23. With deepest sympathy, I have felt your pain.

[Faygo Kid]

24. Very sorry about your mother. And your bitterness.

I worked for Bobby. Too young to have worked for Jack.

All the best, anyway, at this reflective time.

[roguevalley]

25. my sincere condolences about your mom. nothing is worse than that.

[LaurenG]

26. May you have peace. My sincerest condolences on the loss of your mother.

I apologize for the heated moments that have caused you to lose faith in your fellow travelers. Please try to see the better nature in us all and again, I wish you peace.

[jbm]

27. so sorry about your mom

The political stuff must seem less important when you've just lost a family member.

I appreciate your post and I agree with the vast majority of what you said. The other day I was watching an interview with Senator Biden and he kept talking about "his friend John McCain". I know it sounds silly, but I suddenly had this revelation that many of our longtime Democratic senators really are great friends with John McCain. It put this whole primary experience in a new light for me. If he's their friend, they've probably been able to work together for many years. I love Hillary, and will support her to the end, but she will always be somewhat devisive. Obama can't win the GE, but he does open the doors, and give many liberals a 'feel good' moment by becoming the dem candidate.

Meanwhile, our senate and congress people appear to know that they can work with McCain. A Dem house and senate lead by a republican president that everyone likes will be less susceptible to the divisions that come from one party control. I think our dem leadership knows McCain will win, and they're OK with that. The more I think about it, I come to the realization that I'm OK with it too. Maybe this is the path that really allows the country to move forward, and given a choice between country and party, I've got to vote for the USA.

The other benefit that comes from this, is I think there will be backlash over the sexism that popped up during this campaign. That hasn't been talked about enough for many years, and we need to shine some light on it again. I do feel sorry for Hillary, because she has paid her dues, served her country, and was entitled to far more respect than she received. I have less sympathy for Obama. In a way, he is being sacrificed as well, but he lacked the experience and connections to be a great candidate. When Clinton offered him the Vice-Presidency, he had the opportunity to create a strong ticket, and gain some experience that would made him a viable candidate some day. He chose to go his own way, so I figure the outcome of his campaign is his own responsibility.

[yewberry]

28. I'm sorry to hear about your mom.

Please take care of yourself.

[VolcanoJen]

29. I'm so sorry about your mother.

:hug:

[slinkerwink]

30. I'm sorry to hear that about your mother. I hope your family is doing ok.

[MethuenProgressive]

31. Sorry to hear about your Mom, and I apologize for the DU members using this thread to attack you.

Thanks for your thoughts and posts.

[musicblind]

32. I am so sorry to hear about your mother :(

I am extremely close to mine and love her with all my heart. If I lost her I do not know what I would do.

I understand how you feel. I have never watched KO before, but probably will not watch him afterwards because of his bias.

I did watch Chris Mathews regularly, and read his books. I stopped watching him during the primary season due to his bias, but I will probably start back up again in a couple of months unless he starts siding with McCain every day.

Those are your choices, your rights, and what you SHOULD do if you disagree with products, policies, or politicians. People have been horrible on DU. We will soon learn which people here actually SUPPORT Obama and which people merely HATE Clinton.

After the one week "get it out of your system" period passes... we will no longer be able to disagree with Obama but they will no longer be able to bash Clinton. SO remember that the days of hearing Clinton bashed regularly will soon come to an end. Neither candidate should ever be bashed, they are both good candidates and good people.

:hug:

[ecstatic]

33. Put yourself in an Obama supporters shoes and look at Clinton's actions

through those eyes. I think most people on DU are reasonable enough to be able to view things from the other side.

If I were in your shoes, I cannot imagine feeling bitterness towards O supporters-I'm trying hard, but there's nothing there? Obama's sexist? Obama's racist? Come on now... those are just irrational excuses.

[LBJDemocrat]

35. Doesn't sound like forgiveness to me

Just saying.

[Marrah_G]

36. This is calling out a poster and really wrong- IBTL

[reflection]

37. I'm very sorry about your mother.

I haven't had to face that day yet but I know it will be tough.

[Tresalisa]

38. ...

:grouphug:

5-year anniversary of my father's passing last week, 7-year anniversary of my mother's passing next week.

My best to you!

[Blue-Jay]

41. Hmmm... Don't care.

I stopped reading after you equated Olberman with Bill-O. Enjoy your little world of delusions.

[Blondiegrrl]

51. I stopped reading after "Obama supporters acted contrary to the interest of our party."

Pot, meet kettle.

These "poor me" posts are self-serving and pointless.

[The Doctor.]

43. Please explain this;

"But then I am not prepared to forget, because I am not a fool. Certain (Many? Most? Almost all?) Obama supporters acted contrary to the interest of our party and even common decency. That was their choice, even as they watched what it did to our party - and their former friends like me. Obama's campaign was right in the middle of all this."

And use examples.


Thanks!

[Hoof Hearted]

47. Oh for fucks sake. Nobody buys that kind of feigned incredulity.

[The Doctor.]

48. Yeah.. I know... how dare someone challenge BS accusations.

:eyes:

PLEEZE... all I asked for was an explanation with some kind of examples. Calling that 'feigned incredulity' is like calling Patrick Fitgerald's investigation of the Plame revelation a "witch hunt".

If I'm incredulous, it's for a damned good reason. If you or your cohorts cannot placate my incredulity with FACTS and REASON, then you have proven my skepticism of your bullshit assertions well-founded.

Thank you for doing so yet again.

Or... wait.... you can back up the OP's statements?


Yeah... that's what I thought. Nothing.


Please, arm yourself before engaging in a battle of, well... any kind.

[JohnnyLib2]

49. Thank you, placton, for the thoughtful post.

And you have my sympathy for your loss.

[TragedyandHope]

53. Unfortunately as we've seen time and time again

on this forum, in the media and in the wider world, the loudest, most offensive and painful voices on both sides are the ones that leave the strongest impression. The vast majority (not quite silent) of supporters on both sides remained civil, rational and reasonable throughout, but these voices were often not heard above the divisive noise of the few.

For the same reason the "News" does not report all the good things that happen every day and instead focuses on crime, disaster and tragedy, this Primary season has been one where all the good, such as the amazing turnouts, newly energized and re-energized voters and unprecedented grassroots involvement, has been overlooked at every turn in favor of the latest controversy, the most offensive statements and a media spin designed to raise blood pressure and inspire outrage on a daily basis.

If you look a little deeper, beyond what they were force-feeding us and beyond what sparked the most heated discussion here, you would have seen many accounts of Clinton and Obama supporters getting along, working together and helping each other out on a personal level. These are the small stories that fall through the cracks, the real stories, the ones that don't sell newspapers and the ones that don't inspire epic debates. They quickly fall back to the third, fourth and fifth page, then on to oblivion underneath the flood of loud, adrenaline filled posts.

They were there if you were looking.

I have no doubt that most supporters on both sides have more in common than posts like this credit to them. I'm saddened that the worst of the worst of what went on during this race will shape the impressions of many people. I truly hope that those on both sides with their hearts and minds in the right place can work through the pain, try to remember the reasons we're here and make the extra effort to look beyond the screaming headlines to see the under-reported goodness, humanity and positive intentions of so many of our fellow party members and fellow Americans.

Don't let the loudest and worst of the worst pull us away from who we are and what we stand for.