I don't know what to say to this ...

[FirstLight]

This was originally a post in GD, but I guess it should be here instead... please refrain from hatred and flaming, I have avoided this area of DU because I just can't hack the anger that's come from this primary... so here's my original post:

I have a good friend that I have known since our college days as single moms, and we have both had similar views on politics for many years, even welfare reform was not something we ever fought about... drug policy, nope...the war, nope...

BUT she just told me this yesterday and left me speechless:
she thinks that Obama has to do something to PROVE to her he should be the nominee and the Pres!
what???? I said. Are you freaking kidding me?
she says she still questions his religious alignment (muslim or not?)That he is not honest (he's a slick talker, he's shifty)
that Hillary got 'pushed' out of the race (not that she played dirty and it bit her in the ass)
and if Hill isn't the Nom she'll either vote for McCain or sit it out completely!

I told her she was being brainwashed by the MSM and the right wingers and that was exactly what they WANT her to do...but she would rather move to Canada and leave us all to rot than vote in this system that has done such horrible things to a woman.

...My mom is leaning the same way (Hillary or not voting)..though I know her problem is probably latent racism because she was a southerner. (no problem with my southern heritage, just acknowldging that she grew up in a segregated south and is a product of her generation)

but STILL!

what on earth do I say to help? IS there anything I can say that will change someone's mind once they are that far over the edge?

I was an Edwards supporter for a long time, and came to Obama just by listening to him speak and watching how classy he handled the shit-flinging..and got realy pised off by the Clinton's dirty games.
I am not up for this kind of debate, but I can't stand that people I know & love would even THINK of sitting it out or voting Repug just to be bad sports when SO much hangs in the balance. I shuder to think of the horrors that face us if McSame wins because of this BS - and as much as I used to love Bill Clinton, I am just disgusted that they can bring our country to this place of hatred and inflexibility just to serve their own causes...

I am at a loss...and fear for us all ...

[Liberal Veteran]

1. I hate to say it, but some of the attitudes about Obama have unveiled deep-seated racism.

I had a similar conversation with a friend and at the end of day, she finally said, "I just don't think America is ready for a black president".

About two months later, after having the discussion where I pointed out with evidence that Obama was not a Muslim or anti-American, she tells me I shouldn't vote for Obama because he is a Muslim.

I must admit, I have no clue how to purge so reckless idiocy.

[iamthebandfanman]

21. exposing it

is the first step to purging.

mostly though, time will heal the racial divide.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. Remind your friend that McCain called his wife the "c" word in public

There is simply no excuse for a woman to not vote or vote for McCain. McCain demonstrated his opinion of women in that instance.

Other than that, I wouldn't worry about it. The general election is several months away and Obama will win over the hold outs.

[dkf]

3. Tell them the story of John McCain and his first wife.

If they let that sexist warmonger become President, it is on their heads...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6178373&mesg_id=6178454

[BlooInBloo]

4. We'll find out in the fall what matters more to white folks: their bigotry, or their country.

[Amonester]

5. My very humble advice would be like:

Give them time to "re-think" about it because November is still a VERY long way ahead.

My two cents.

[TwilightGardener]

6. There is not much you can do. I've noticed a real "us vs. them" mentality

emerging, especially among white female Hillary supporters--an attitude of either "we women have to stick together" or "we whites have to stick together". I personally confronted the latter--a lady at a party who always disliked Hillary, but became her biggest cheerleader in order to prevent Obama from becoming President. She insisted that we must keep Obama out of office because he'll sympathize with the Muslims and allow Black Power to rise up and control America. There's almost no way to deal with this "fear of slave revolt" mentality.

[raebrek]

20. Sometimes when I hear people around here

talking about it. I think that people would stay home just to say. See, we told you that you couldn't win. Sort of seems like a self full filling prophecy.

Raebrek.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

7. These people really need to step away from the TV and educated themselves.

Read a book.

Obama is both black and white but I guess all they see is skin.Its ok for a white man to be president and fuck everything up but oooh a black man - its all about racism.Thats the bottom line.These people are not even thinking about reading about his campaign platform.All they see is his skin color.Not the heart or soul of the man ... and if that gets us McBush then shame on all these ignorant people.Remove yourself from the Democratic party once you pull the lever for McCain.

[Unbowed]

8. You can't change her mind because something else is at work there.

I went through the same process with friends before the 2004 election. Now many of them understand what they wouldn't even consider then. They regret voting for Bush but nothing short of what Bush has done would have convinced them they should have voted for Kerry. They were not going to be convinced prior to the election, that's for sure.

My sister sounds a lot like your friend. She loved Obama before it came time to actually vote for him. And when he started winning, all the same nonsense came out of her mouth. Issue per issue, doubt per doubt, I countered her points. And you know what she said in the end? She said, "America will never vote for a black man."

That couldn't be countered because what she really meant was that she will never vote for a black man.

Some people can't be reasoned with. They will either come to enlightenment with time and experience or they never will.

Best to spend your time convincing those who can be convinced. There are plenty of those kind of intelligent, thoughtful folks out there who want to talk about the serious issues at hand.

Don't let fear win. It's what the "black hats" want.

[billyoc]

9. Does your friend live in a swing state?

If not, it's not worth arguing with them about it. :hi:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. Youtube has a video

that debunks many of the lies about Obama. I didn't bookmark it, but it is in the Political Videos list, I think. Anyway, somewhere out there is a photo of Obama taking his oath on the BIBLE, and then there's his long term membership at Trinity Church. This is the one lie that gets my goat. That and the fact that Muslims are, by and large, peaceful reasonable people, not terrorists!

[scarletwoman]

11. I would say, relax. Refrain from reacting out of a place of fear. It's not November yet.

Have a little faith that Obama's abilities, which will become more and more apparent as these next months of campaigning go, may in themselves be enough to eventually win these women over.

Whatever you do, don't feed into their sense of grievance by attempting to persuade them. This just brings up the defensive walls and digging in the heels.

Give them time and space to come around on their own, you don't need to do anything except demonstrate your committment to Obama. Create the conditions where THEY have to ask YOU why you're for Obama.

The election is 5 months away, plenty of time for them go through the inner processes that could bring them to the voting booth in November ready to vote for Obama.

Peace,
sw

[TexasObserver]

12. It's sexism and identifying strongly with Hillary.

Hillary is their friend, and Obama is the man who done her wrong! They clamor to their girlfriend, they identify strongly with her, and they carry her anger as their own. We've all seen it happen many times in life. In our culture, in this era, women carry such grudges much longer and much deeper than men.

So the women who react as the OP describes are women who are not acting based upon a rational view of the two major candidates. They are acting based upon their feelings of vicarious anger, adopting as their own Hillary, and blaming THAT MAN who denied Hillary what she wanted.

Their antipathy toward Obama is not rational. Their intent to vote for McCain is not rational. Their actions are clearly based in emotion, not economics or logic.

[shraby]

13. Remind them of the Supreme court and the ramifications

if McCain wins.

[FirstLight]

14. So many of you are so right...

I guess it just upsets me to think that we could be looking at McSame and 100 years of war, not to mention the other stuff that is coming down the pike as the earth turns against us as well...

It is folly for me to think that a president can do anything to "save" us...but at the same time I do think that the wrong guy can "damn" us...

and yes, she is remarried, and has a better economic situation than I do...so she has a certain amount of smugness when it comes to her choice. It's one thing to see it on tv, but quite another to have the MSM bullshit coming out of a friends mouth that I have always admired and agreed with. I thought she had more smarts than this.


and while I realize that there are months to go ... it still feels urgent to some extent, because I think that Hilary is about to take this to August and create even more mayhem and hatred...which really screws our chances I think...

[scarletwoman]

16. I honestly think we should just have some faith and operate out of a place of joy, instead of fear.

My take is, if we really do think that Obama can win, let's act like it -- be proud and excited and fearless. We are on a wave, if some people choose to be left behind out of pique or racism, it won't stop the wave.

Peace,
sw

[asjr]

15. Why can't people you know and

love have opinions of their own? Why do you not believe they have the right to their own choices? Not everyone is "pissed off by the Clintons dirty games." That is a very biased remark. I don't believe those that say they will vote for McCain if Clinton is not the nominee. Some Democrats might be angry but they are not stupid.

[FirstLight]

19. okay, you don't know me so I guess it's easy to read into what I said

I don't have a problem with them having their own opinions, but to regurgitate the MSM and propaganda is just not educated. I DO expect more from friends and family who know better on most other topics.

also, I do tend to be an idealist and an activist - so the thought of someone voting out of revenge is just horrific to me.

and, I have been a supporter of Bill Clinton for years, even through the impeachment crap...but I don't see the same integrity in either of them anymore, and my "biased" remark about dirty tricks isn't meant as an attack, just a dissapointment at the Rovian tactics I have witnesed over the past few months. I have lost respect for both of them...

[QueenOfCalifornia]

17. Did this friend

also say Obama was "uppity?"

Sounds like she has a *color* problem.

[FirstLight]

18. not directly...but yes

she also has a problem with the hispanic community in our town and her daughter dating "them" so I guess it's a form of racism...

[helderheid]

22. Tell her to vote for Bob Barr.

[stillcool]

23. send links...

to speeches, to town hall meetings, to policy papers, and to anything where the words spoken are from the candidates mouth.

[LWolf]

24. Candidates are not friends or family.

Don't allow them to divide your friendships and family the way they've divided the party.

Accept that each of us makes our choices based on who we are, and our experiences, as well as the facts available.

Some Clinton supporters have noted that many of Obama's supporters are making their decision in the primary, and in the GE, based on emotion rather than logic. On inspiration rather than fact.

As a supporter of neither candidate, I would point out that there are Clinton supporters who are doing the same thing.

As someone who has been an adamant opposer of Bush, and the Bush admin, since 2000, and who is considering sitting out the GE, for president anyway, I can tell you that, while I may disagree with your perspective, I understand and respect it.

That's REALLY the way to reach across the divide. Not to conquer. Not to purge. Not to engage in revenge. To understand disagreement, to respect each person's right to make their own judgments, and to be ready to find common ground when possible.