Hillary's Choice

[cali]

It's a simple one: To support the dem nominee and work like hell to bring her supporters on board, or to undermine the democratic party and fight her hopeless battle all the way to the convention floor to be shot down there very publically.

That's it. There's really nothing in between.

I still believe that she'll get on board and wholeheartedly support the nominee and the party.

To do anything else is political suicide.

[pbca]

1. I'm already past my limits with her

There is nothing that she could do that would ever restore her to anything like credibility with me again, the same goes for her entire team and remaining supporters. They are, to me, Republicans - pure and simple.

[dorktv]

2. I would be okay with a floor vote because I think it will be good for the

party's overall chances with the media still focused on us.

Why have the media focused on the Republicans? I mean honestly, the only way Senator McCain get's press nowadays is by messing up. That is not a good sign for them.

[cali]

4. I suggest you study a little history. Contentious conventions invariably produce

mortally wounded nominees. That's simply a fact.

[dorktv]

8. *stares at her book in the 1912 election in where it took 46 attempts to get Wilson*

*and then turns and looks at her copy of "Happy Days Are Here Again" about the nomination on four floor votes for FDR*

The last time that I could see your point would be the 1924 election but had we nominated McAdoo we would have lost regardless because who the heck would vote for a McAdoo?!

We also have lost plenty of elections without or with a single floor vote. 2004, 2000, 1988, 1984, 1956, 1928, 1908, 1904, 1900, 1892, 1872, 1864...1972 and 1968 had ugliness that was going to happen because of the Vietnam War and the key fact that the party was itself changing. And in 1968 the guy who got nominated did not even win a single primary!

So presenting a united front is all well and good but that is NOT going to get ratings and if a floor vote happens, we get viewers watching us and if we do it right-which probably will happen-then we get to have a showcase that the Republicans are going to be eating their hearts out over. Especially if what I think will happen and they take the Prez and Veep slots. Most likely an Obama/Clinton ticket that gives the hope and change meme some flying room but calms down people who are worried about his lack of serious policy experience and shows that the Prez, who needs to be a diplomat anyway, has what it takes.

[Yael]

10. As she is typing her thoughts into THE INTERNET

Welcome to the information age!

That was almost 100 years ago.

[dorktv]

12. So that means automatically that a floor vote = loss?

Again: 2004, 2000, 1988, 1984...

Television ages with single or no floor votes and we still lost.

Having unity does not mean we will win come November.

[Yael]

14. Every convention has a floor vote

The question is about party division going into the convention.

1968, 1980.

[dorktv]

17. Actually 1936, 1964, 1996 and 2000 did not have floor votes.

All were by acclimation. And with the exception of the last one, we had Democratic nominees win those years.

Contested conventions that we won the White House would be the 1844, 1852, 1856, 1884, 1912, 1932 ones.

Because of the change from the 2/3 rule after 1936, there has been one contested convention in 1952. Even the floor vote in 1980 did not result in a split for anyone other than President Carter.

[Yael]

9. This isn't about you or your entertainment.

This is about our country.

Thanks.

[dorktv]

13. This is about our country indeed. A country that has lower and lower

vote turn outs the less and less engaged the populace is in the process.

Like it or not, it IS about entertaining the populace and getting the ratings we need so that way next time it does not require such entertainment to force a jaded populace into participating.

[Yael]

15. You just don't have a clue, do you.

Convention infighting GALVANIZES people, it doesn't MOTIVATE them.

[dorktv]

16. Do you want people to pay attention to the process or not?

Apparently YOU think we should just give up on getting people to pay attention to the Democratic Party.

*I* think we should do more to get people involved in the process. Last I checked, the contest primary season has done a hell of a lot more recruiting then the 2004 process did when it took us a lot longer to get where we are now.

[FreakinDJ]

3. Bull shit - She'll run independent with Lieberman

[cali]

5. Please tell me you don't actually believe such tripe.

Why she would never, ever, do any such thing:

She knows she'd lose.

She knows she'd tank any political future.

She knows she'd further- and completely- destroy the Clinton "brand".

She knows she'd destroy the Clinton legacy.

[earthlover]

7. She's already been working on each of these four things already....

[scarletwoman]

6. I think she's fucking nuts and evil to boot, so I don't see where rational behavior applies.

She isn't going to make any such choice, it will have to be forced on her.

sw

[Yael]

11. Yup