If you think Obama has betrayed his church, you are proving why you support Hillary

[Yotun]

You have obviously not heard him explain his decision. Which is why you support Hillary. You care not to actual hear or see the man's positions, you are merely partisan to one side, and only 'read' about the candidate though the spin of his opponents.

1) He specifically stated he does not renounce the church in any way- so anybody who is saying that he did it because 'of the church's racist comments' is lying- he never said there's a problem with what goes on in the church, he specified he felt there wasn't, so he can still be attacked for it if people want to. Not a position he would have taken if he cared about political correctness.

2) He specifically stated that he is leaving partly because he feels he should not be made to answer for everything the church does, so he's not hiding anything. He says the poeple in the church have their own positions, and he should have his own.

3) He specifically said that he is also leaving because he does not want the church to watch behind their backs all the time in every sermon to watch if they are saying something somebody might tape and use against Obama. The church should be free.

4) He specifically said that he knows people will take this the wrong way, and its their position to take. He is not stupid. If this was a strategic move, he should have known it would actually make him look bad.

But go on, carry on with your baseless attacks. After all, those of you accusing him have already proven how you arrive at your conclusions and how you think.

[Skittles]

1. you have obviously fallen into the ABYSS

PLEASE get some help

[DerekJ]

7. Still Sour?!!

:rofl:

[Skittles]

10. I DON'T SUPPORT OBAMA *OR* HRC

the only thing that makes me sour is the fact that these candidates were inflicted upon us

[DerekJ]

19. Yah .. Yah .. I heard that rant before. :)

[Skittles]

22. well f***ing ABSORB IT then n/t

[DerekJ]

28. I see you still have a filthy mouth. The angry sour skittles. What’s your BP?!!

[Skittles]

30. I donate platelets every two weeks so they take my blood pressure often

it was 98/60 last time - and I cannot EVER recall the top digit being over two digits

[shadowknows69]

49. How much are they paying for blood these days?

[Skittles]

69. I have never been paid

and I've donated 27 gallons of blood products in the Dallas area alone

[movonne]

26. delete

[bjobotts]

77. You're a Hillary supporter because Obama quit his church???

[leftofcool]

2. The SD's told him to leave or they would bolt

[DerekJ]

6. leftofcool: Pulling shit out of his a$$ like usual.

[styersc]

3. Barak Obama chose to attend that church to help him poltically.

He chose to dump it for the same reason.

[JoFerret]

4. This religiosity has to end

.

[DerekJ]

5. This shows you haven’t listened, because he answered this question also. You just proved the OP

to be right.

[Skittles]

13. the person you are responding to is correct

absolutely dead-on

[styersc]

16. You are so blinded by cult of personality that you cannot see the

obvious.

Barak Hussein Obama is a politician. When he ran for US Senate he had pollsters that guided his statements, and lawyers who thwarted opponents with technicalities and contributors who sought and recieved favors etc., etc., etc!

If you think he has unique ideas and the skill to see them through then vote for him. If you want him elected because you believe he is some sort of noble new creature who will transcend the history of elected officials you are blindly setting yourself up for disappointment.

[DerekJ]

20. Super Obama. He was planning his political career in his early 20s. Do you know how stupid you sound

You and sour skittles right above you.

[Elspeth]

31. Actually, I have known people who have planned political careers from college

One young woman in particular retrieved some "boudoir" photos from an ex-boyfriend because she didn't want them to show up years later in some tabloid. Seriously, she was thinking that far ahead. And that's a good thing for a political career.

[DerekJ]

70. " "boudoir" photos from an ex-boyfriend because she didn't want them to show up years later....

Explain this to me. How are you comparing a normal human reaction of protecting his reputation and privacy (pulling the photos) to planning his political career by joining a church (that was much smaller than many other Chicago Churches then)?

[Elspeth]

72. I'm not comparing it. I'm responding to your post entitled:

"Super Obama. He was planning his political career in his early 20s. Do you know how stupid you sound"

And my contention is that people DO plan political careers from very early in their 20's, often from college. They join the right fraternity, the right clubs, they become college Democrats or college Republicans. So it's not stupid to think that people might strategize a political career from a very young age.

It was about your general point and not about Obama.

[DerekJ]

80. Why wouldn't he then join a much larger black congregation (Wright's church was small one then)?

[stillcool]

32. Why do people lie like that?

do you think someone is going to believe it? It's like the kindergarten essay.

[roguevalley]

39. you know that personally. wow, I didn't know you were in his five.

[emilyg]

74. You got it.

[bjobotts]

78. You'd say that about any church he joined. Get a grip

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

8. thank you

for this.

the proof is out there but you have to look for it.

[Elspeth]

9. He left his church because it was politically expedient.

End of story.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

14. You proved the OP writer correct

too!

[Elspeth]

21. Yes, I don't believe the spin.

He had to drop the church. It was an albatross. Would you have preferred that he would have kept the church and lost?

[bjobotts]

79. That's impossible. None of this has anything to do with Hillary

[Hansel]

27. If so, why didn't he do it when the 1st Rev Wright tape came out? eom

[Elspeth]

29. The little priest tipped things.

Wright wasn't saying anything specifically about the candidates, only about his views in general. While those views may have seemed extreme to some, there is nothing really new or shocking about them.

What the little priest did was far more problematic politically: he ridiculed Clinton with very pointed sexist stereotyping, and the video enraged a strong part of the Democratic base, white (and some minority) women. This priest's action was far more pointed politically and was far more damaging for Obama in the GE: I've been telling you all along, he needs the whole base. He's going to have a hard enough time with the GOP without alienating female voters he needs. Had he stayed with this church, he would have been seen as tacitly supporting the little priest.

It's all about the base right now. Wright wouldn't have caused any real problems until the GE. The little priest caused immediate problems with the base at the wrong time.

Obama made the right decision politically in my opinion.

[Hansel]

59. Whatever. They were playing the Rev Wright tapes 24/7 and

it was damaging his numbers. So if he was doing to for political expediency, that would have been a good time to do it.

I think he did it for exactly the reasons he said. The media needs to stay the hell away from this church. Their behavior toward its members has been voyeuristic and outrageous. This last incident particularly pissed me off and I'm not surprised the Obama did what he did.

There has NEVER been a presidential candidate that has had their church members scrutinized, judged and harassed by the media. The media's behavior in this has been completely unprofessional. They have made no effort to put ANY balance into the story and have purposefully left pertinent facts out to paint the church in the worse light possible. The only way this was going to stop was for Obama to resign.

[Elspeth]

67. No. Wright was not the big problem, not for the Dem base.

Had it not been for the little priest going after Hillary Clinton and doing it in a way that was really offensive to a lot of women, there would not have been an issue. Wright was only marginally problematic. It was the little priest that tipped the scales.

[stillcool]

34. because that was when the Church..

first started getting harassed. Maybe they thought the press would move on and leave the Church and it's congregants alone, after the Pastor-baiting. But that didn't happen. Who would want a Community Church to be destroyed because one of it's congregants was a Presidential candidate? Regardless of how you feel about Reverend Wright, that Church has been in existence since 1910, and has helped the community. It is much more than "Obama's" Church.

[Elspeth]

51. No. It's politics.

But specifically the little priest.

[stillcool]

56. Of course it's politics..

why else stake out a Community Church in Chicago?

[Elspeth]

58. Not sure I understand your answer.

Who was staking out the church?

[Hansel]

60. The media. And they've made no bones about it. eom

[Elspeth]

61. Ok. Not what I meant by politics. Take a look at my post above.

BTW, I think Obama made the right decision. This church would have been an anvil around his neck in the GE. Best to be rid of it.

[Hansel]

64. Agreed.

But I'm still more concerned about the church members and I think he was too. I have worked in community organization in the inner city so I can understand this from Obama's perspective. These people really don't need this and my heart really goes out to them. I don't think that people from the outside should try to judge them without more context and I think the media has been out of bounds through this entire ordeal. I pray to God they leave them alone now.

[Elspeth]

65. They will probably leave them alone now.

Once Obama moves on, they will cease to be of interest. Although that little white priest may never hear the end of it. I'm sure the local Archbishop has a thing or two to say. :) Poor guy, it's gonna come down on his head. Pope Ratzinger isn't a big fan of liberation theology or raising up the disenfranchised.

[stillcool]

63. I guess you didn't see or hear his speech...

Maybe it's on youtube.

[Elspeth]

66. Oh I saw it. The priest you mean.

There are gonna be problems, but they won't be Obama's. The little priest embarrassed the higher ups. They don't like him as it is. :)

[stillcool]

68. No..I meant Obama's speech..

when he explained what was happening at the Church, and why he felt is was best to withdraw his membership. I hope the community and the Church get some peace.

[Elspeth]

71. Oh. OK

Look he had to say something heartfelt. And I'm sure that he was not happy they were getting harassed. But it was a political decision, and a good one. I have no problem with it and you shouldn't either.

[rug]

11. "I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community."

Yes he can.

[stillcool]

35. Did you listen to the speech?

No. I didn't think so.

[rug]

37. Live.

You don't think too well.

[scheming daemons]

46. Then you saw that he specifically did NOT disown the church...

...

[rug]

50. No, he quit them.

"But as you know, our relations with Trinity have been strained by the divisive statements of Rev. Wright, which sharply conflict with our own views. Our larger concern is that because of my candidacy and membership at Trinity, these controversies have served as an unfortunate distraction for other Trinity members who seek to worship in peace, and have placed you in an untenable position as you establish your own ministry under very difficult circumstances."

For their own good, I'm sure.

[stillcool]

47. Then you heard what he said..

about Reverend Wright? And I guess you think the Church and all it's members deserve to be harassed?

[emilyg]

75. I did.

He did what was politically beneficial to him.

[Skip Intro]

12. He did it for purely political reasons. It amazes me that the same people who can twist Hillary's

words into warmongering and racism can't see political posturing when it stares them right in the face.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

17. poor Tuzla Hillary. Her words just get twisted all to pieces.

people really twist her words and votes around!

[roguevalley]

43. she gets twisted but obama is automatically wrong and devious.

how sad. ignore.

[FrenchieCat]

15. Who gives a shit? It is no one's business really.

There is no religious test.

McCain has his own problems on this.

Hillary won't be the nominee, so her creepy pastor is also out of it.

And let's remember that GOD is portable.

Let's stop talking about the dumb shit that noone is really talking about.

Obama will be the nominee very shortly, and then you can go post this at the hate sites and argue with those fools.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

18. Excellent: "Let's stop talking about the dumb shit that noone is really talking about."

thanks!

[guruoo]

44. I think you nailed it, Frenchie.

[avenger64]

23. That bus is leaving the station ...

... and he'd throw you under it, too - if you were important enough.

[Lerrad]

24. Hummmm.... religon.... religon...

Some times I think we would be much better of without religion. When I think about it, it causes many of the major problems in the world.

Muslims have declared a holy war with guns in one hand and the Curran in the other, and Bush has done much the same. The Irish Catholics and Protestants have been fighting for how many years now? I think around thirty some.

Then we have ministers that call themselves Christians that have fun mocking people in front of their follow worshipers, and the rest of the world.

Religion has no place in politics.

[Arkansas Granny]

36. Your post reminds me of something I read just a few days ago.

"Oh, son, when folks get to the point they're voting their religion and worshiping their politics, you think there's any line between them?"

From "The Family Tree" by Sheri S. Tepper

[Lerrad]

62. Thats a good saying, I will keep this one handy. Thanks! n/t

[4_Legs_Good]

25. It breaks my heart that he's had to do this

[AspenRose]

48. He got an invitation to come to my church from one of our laypeople

today during announcements.

I thought that was nice.

He may be getting lots of invitations from all over the country soon. Especially since he's all over the place campaigning.

[4_Legs_Good]

73. Fantastic! That is a ray of hope

I just know, from bitter experience, how hard it is to leave a church that you've been with for a long time, and that really is a part of you, even if you don't agree with everything (or often *much*) of what is taught.

People just don't appreciate it.

David

[LWolf]

33. I think it's a strategic move.

I'm ambivalent about it.

I didn't like his too-cozy relationship with organized religion to begin with.

Unlike many, I didn't disagree with most of Reverend Wright's controversial statements. I disagreed with him making political statements about candidates from the pulpit, which I see as a blurring and a corruption of the separation of church and state.

The second round was worse than the first. It was despicable, and I think a church that allows campaigning from the pulpit ought to have it's non-profit tax-exempt status revoked.

I don't see that Obama could have done anything else at that point. I also don't care what he said about it. A speech can be moving without being accurate. Obama is great at giving explanations that move people. He's a politician. I don't assume anything he says is true or sincere. In this case, I think it's necessary to his campaign. If he weren't running, if he were a junior senator not running for another office, and this kind of campaigning had happened in his church, I don't think he would have left.

I don't blame him for leaving. Neither do I ascribe anything deeper or more sincere than a campaign strategy to the move.

For your information, I do not support Hillary Clinton.

[Mezzo]

38. bullshit.

[guruoo]

40. It was the correct decision, IMO. n/t

[billyoc]

41. If I were moving to D.C., I'd be changing churches too.

[polmaven]

42. I STRONGLY support Hillary Clinton

and I think Barack Obama reluctantly left his church because he realized they are now out to "get him back" for what they consider to be an insult to Jeremiah Wright. I think they abandoned him, and have not been acting in his best interest, or in their own best interest, for that matter.

So what does that prove of me? Put the broad brush away, OK? Hillary Clinton did not invite Phlager to speak at that church. Hillary Clinton did not arrange for Jeremiah Wright to say any of the things he said.

[Mezzo]

45. and humping the pulpit in front of children did not help, I am sure.

[polmaven]

52. Agreed!

n/t

[emilyg]

76. Definitely not.

[HuffleClaw]

53. this OP makes no sense whatsoever

though it is pretty amusing to read 4 nonsensical mini-rants that demonstrate yet again that some people can excuse ANYTHING Obama does. anything.

[Yotun]

57. Why not 'argue' against them then, rather than making a statement that we must take as fact?

[barack the house]

54. Exactly he did a very honorable thing.

[Blue_In_AK]

55. I'M SICK OF RELIGION IN POLITICS.

That is all.