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ANYONE who votes for McSAME or sits out has BLOOD on their hands !!

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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:56 PM
Original message
ANYONE who votes for McSAME or sits out has BLOOD on their hands !!
Plain and simple ! He believes Iraq has a military solution. He is willing to occupy it militarily for 100 or more years. THIS IS THE HUGEST NO BRAINER FOR DEMOCRATS I HAVE EVER SEEN, AND I AM SICKENED THAT SOME ARE ACTUALLY WILLING TO SAY THEY WOULD RATHER ALLOW JOHN MCCAIN TO FILL THOUSANDS MORE BODY BAGS WITH DEAD AMERICAN TROOPS, HAVE MANY THOUSANDS MORE MAIMED, CONTINUE TO SELL OUR NATIONAL SOUL TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER, AND CONTINUE TO RAPE OUR ECONOMY AND DEMOCRACY THAN VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA. I am a proud military veteran, and I don't even recognize this country anymore after what the Bush/Cheney regime have done to us. And Democrats are willing to allow the Bush twin,
John McSAME to continue to destroy our nation after the living hell we have been through.
Well people, you have a very, very simple choice. Vote Obama or vote for dead Americans. It's that simple. But remember, take the latter route, vote for McSAME or sit out, and BLOOD, yes BLOOD is on YOUR hands !!
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nice touch with the ALL CAPS portions!
That lets people know that you are very serious and also probably correct in your analysis!

:sarcasm:
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. It's opinion more than analysis, but you're damn right I'm serious. People are DYING. It's been in
a few papers. Sorry if my caps bother you, but this personal to me. If you were a veteran you might understand.
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avenger64 Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
44. AND TOTALLY ORIGINAL!
N/T!
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styersc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wow. For weeks I've been called a bigot and an assassin.
I've even been told how unimportant I am and how my opinion means nothing.

Now I hold lives in my grimy little paw.

odd.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Votes have consequences. Vote for McSAME = Vote for 100 yrs. in Iraq. You tell me.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. same with supporting hillarys love for clusterbombs and war
just sayin
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. ANYONE who thinks Hillary is the same as McCain...
is a goddamned idiot, plain and simple.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Anyone who doesn't READ the post is the IDIOT ! I NEVER say Hillary = McCain. What I do say is
that if anyone VOTES for McCain or sits out, then they are RESPONSIBLE if he actually wins. And they damn well are. So please read what the post actually says, not INTO it.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. perhaps we are all responsible
for not supporting better candidates
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pbca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. No just paying attention.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. I very much agree with you!
My sister doesn't like either Clinton or Obama (she feels they haven't done enough to fight the 'pub assault these past few years, and she's absolutely right), but she'll vote for the Democrat. Anyone who claims to be a Democrat and either doesn't vote because their candidate didn't get the nomination, or worse, votes for McCain, should be considered worse than a Republican. I can't even fathom a liberal being that goddamned stupid or evil. I'm going to figuratively rip the head off of any liberal who tells me they voted for McCain, or didn't vote.
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Snarkoleptic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. Rings true, but must you shout? All caps is a buzz-grind.
McSames healthcare plan for younger women...
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Ah well, as a veteran it gets pretty damn personal.
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pbca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'll go you one better
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 08:26 PM by pbca
Anyone who ever voted for Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Bush II has blood on their hands - only question is how much.

On Edit: Forgot Johnson
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Ah BUT, there is HUGE, HUGE difference. Yes, seldom is there a
presidency without military action somewhere at some level, and oftentimes in this imperfect world, sadly, military action is justifiable. BUT, Iraq was quite obviously a BLUNDERED war of choice from the very beginning riddled with errors and based on misleading information if not outright lies.
McCain is even willing to admit to the many mistakes early on. Yet what makes this so ESPECIALLY different, is that we now have 5+ years of experience with this folly, and John McSAME clings to same flawed reasoning and lack of understanding that has bogged us down in this mess, AND he disregards the obvious facts that there is no longterm military solution, we can't afford the monetary cost, and we morally should not be sacrificing more blood and treasure for an EXTREMELY unpopular war that MANY military experts say should never have been waged and was riddled with mistakes for years to begin with. John McSAME refuses to change course and believes there is a military solution. He is a Bush/Cheney policy CARBON COPY with a complete disregard for the evidence before him, complete disregard of the will of the people, and complete disregard of the benefit of thoughtful hindsight. He ALSO uses the right wing meme of "I will never surrender" to make his case: straight out of the Rove, Limbaugh, Bush/Cheney verbal propaganda book.
This is different my friend. This is different !
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pbca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Hillary is saying she'd pull out of Iraq
(though she's vague about how or when) but then she says she'd bomb Iran - so....
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I'm NOT criticizing Hillary here. It is a reality check for ANY of her supporters
(or even any Obama supporters if it were reversed) who would commit a moral crime by being so "sour grapes" that they would actually pull a lever for John McSAME given the monumental stakes in this election cycle.
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pbca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. P.S. I'd also add
That under all of those presidents there was unjustified, perhaps even illegal military action.
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kellenburger Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. I guess I'm lucky then.
I live in Indiana and no Dem will take Indiana,
therefore my vote means nothing.

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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. So you'll write off your state and sell your soul and conscience. Man, you're a sad person.
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kellenburger Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. huh?
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 08:46 PM by kellenburger
Im sad because I live in a red state?

you lost me.

I'm not writing it off, but no dem will carry
Indiana. not hillary, not Obama not Bill Clinton
not Jimmy Carter...

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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
19. HEY! RBInMaine
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Do you actually think that childish foolishness is going to hurt my feelings? If you read the post
you'd see it is not an attack on Hillary. It IS, however, a wake up call to ANYONE who would pull a lever for McCain just because they didn't get their way in the primary. There are HUGE issues in this campaign, bigger than either Hillary or Barack. And that is what some people aren't seeing. It's not about Hillary and having a woman president, nor about Obama and having a black president. It is about the war, the economy, our standing in the world, healthcare, education, our environment, etc. For ME it is about NO MORE DEAD TROOPS IN IRAQ ! McCain will keep it going. Barack (or Hillary) would end it. BUT, Barack is going to be the nominee most likely so people who don't want more dead troops better damn well get behind THE DEMOCRAT no matter who the hell it is.

(By the way, spend a few years in the First Infantry Division as I did and perhaps you'd understand.)
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. Well Said!
You nailed it right on the head. I applaud your thread!:applause:

McSame is a great idea for bumpersticker if it has not already been done.
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az chela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
24. absolutely right
He is a senile old man that hasnt a clue what is going on and thinks bush will get him elected.
The thought of him winning anything is so scary,I wish he would get the hell out of Az,he is worthless
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. Yes, but we must have a white man (or woman ) in the Oval Office
a white man with his white 1st Lady!

It's called the White House for Godsake, not the Black House!

its always been that way! it doesn't matter if it were Martin Luther King or Ghandi himself.

affirmative action for white people! who cares about competence, its all about race!

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az chela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. what part of HE IS HALF white do you not understand??
We will get the best of both black and white
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. It was sarcasm.
Sorry should have put a tag in there.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
26. People are misunderstanding the post. So let me clarify:
I'm not attacking Hillary. If she were nominated, I'd support her. It is a wake up call for ANYONE who would so bemoan the primary loss as to actually vote against their party and support McCain given the stakes and his Iraq policy which promises endless war. Yes, I'm a Barack supporter and it is very likely he'll be the nominee. So yes, any Hillary supporters who go so sour grapes as to pull the lever for McCain or who sit out are responsible for his policies if he were to actually win. Elections have consequences, as we have seen over these last 8 awful years. their hands. And, I'd say the same thing about Obama supporters if the situation were reversed. There are HUGE issues in this election which are bigger than Hillary, bigger than Barack, and bigger than any of us. Lives are literally on the line, THOUSANDS of them. The stakes couldn't be higher. We can't have four more years of Bush policies. SUPPORT THE DEMOCRAT !

(I'm a US Army Veteran, Sergeant, 1st Infantry Division, 2 oveseas tours. Yes, it's very personal, and yes I know a few things about military issues and what the troops are going through and why we don't need to lose one more American soldier in that needless conflict.)
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
28. Do dems really want 4 more years of Bush et al.
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quickesst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
29. Obama supporters.....
are doing what they can to make sure that does not occur by posting such endearing statements as "Fuck'em, we don't need them." Obama supporters, the kings and queens of doublespeak spend an extraordinary amount of time on DU and other blogs berating, and demonizing HRC supporters out of one side of their mouths, but expect them to support their candidate out of the other side. It's like someone shitting in your living room, and expecting to be rewarded for it. Although I plan on voting for the democrat in the GE, despite the rhetoric of elitism, and hatred from Obama fans, I can fully understand the hesitance of others to follow suit. It's not easy getting shit thrown at you on a daily basis, then being blamed if things go wrong for the shitslingers, which I fear is coming their way like a runaway train. Better grab on to something. Thanks.
quickesst

<>
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I refuse to negotiate with (Hillary supporters) terrorists
Obama may negotiate with our enemies, but I'm happy to rise above the demands of petulant toddlers demanding to be appeased or else they will vote for McCain. They're part of the static America that Obama talked about in his race speech. Please step aside while the rest of us pick up your slack and move this country forward!
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. So Obama doesn't need almost half the Dems in this country?
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 09:27 PM by Hobarticus
Fascinating theory...
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Obama can appease the Hillary supporters. I refuse to negotiate with terrorists.
What part of that don't you understand? Take your petulant attitude and shove it!
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. So now almost half the Dems in this country are terr'rists?
I'm not petulant, at all. Matter of fact, you have no idea who I support. Fine by me, I'm enjoying watching you freak out.

You sound freeperish in your insanity, y'know?
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. No, you are NOT a "terrorist" and YES we need ALL Dems which is exactly my point.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Thanks, but he's a big boy, RB....let him answer himself
Any reasonable person knows that HRC supporters aren't terr'rists, I'm just fascinated by how one can go from a self-proclaimed Dem to a freeper in three easy steps.
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #48
56. I refuse to stand by and let my country be held hostage
You obviously don't have the balls to speak up about injustices and wrongs. People like you are the ones holding this country back. Please step aside while the rest of us pick up your slack and move this country forward.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. What exactly do you know about me?
Tell me, tough guy.
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. You come to debates empty-headed.
Sometimes the truth hurts! :rofl:
You have this obsession with tough guys. Someone steal your lunch money one too many times in grade school? :rofl:
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. That all you got?
Playground insults?

Smilies?

Man...you got it rough, son.

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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. Oh no, I'm really scared
Oh please mister don't insult me. We all know that you're the biggest badass in the world. No wonder you're apathetic to supporting McCain. Cowboy diplomacy meets cowboy internet policing. :rofl:
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. You can't even use 'apathetic' correctly...
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 11:19 PM by Hobarticus
"No wonder you're apathetic to supporting McCain"

That would mean that I'm not particularly interested in supporting McCain. Yet according to your psychic powers, I'm supposedly a McCain supporter. Doesn't make sense.

If you can't use five-cent words correctly, then leave them to the adults.
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #40
55. Thin-skinned aren't we?
You one of those threatening to vote for McCain? If not, then stfu because I'm not talking to you. Next time if I want your smartass opinion I'll give it to you first. :rofl:
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. No, I'm not threatening to vote for McCain...
But I'm laughing heartily at your absurdity and your keyboard machismo.

Well, if you don't want smart-ass opinions, ie. anyone smarter than yourself, then don't post asinine asshattery on a Democratic board. Fair?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Again...what do you know about me?
Please...stop wailing about my "prick" attitude, take a deep breath, and tell me what you know about me and what makes you qualified to make any judgments on me and what I've done for the Democratic party, son.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. OK, slow down tiger. We DO need the Hillary supporters. Let's not get out of hand here.
I'm not attacking Hillary nor her supporters. But I am trying to shake ANYONE's conscience who would vote McSAME over sour grapes. We need to unite this party, and we need to do it because lives are literally at stake. We can not allow sour grapes to trump the HUGE issues we face, mainly the war where people are dying every day.
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #45
57. How many unity threads must we make?
Time for a new approach to this McCain defection problem. :rofl:
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Kill 'em all....let God sort 'em out?
Three words: TOTAL. KEYBOARD. BADASS.

:rofl:
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. We bow to your internet creative buffonery
No real, your definitely, like, the coolest Dem ever to post on this board. :rofl:
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Again, that all you got?
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 11:06 PM by Hobarticus
Insults?

Smilies?

That's it?

And by the way, it's spelled "buffoonery"...if you're going to hurl playground insults like a monkey hurls poo, then at least spell them right.
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. I'm dying in laughter!
You really are pathetic. I'm forcing your dumbass to keep responding. :rofl:
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Haven't answered any of my questions...
I hope you'd at least try and answer one. Guess that means you CAN'T answer since there's no smiley for that.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #31
75. Comparing Hillary supporters
to terrorists - Nice - makes you sound like the pukes.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
32. I am as concerned about your outrage as Obama was for the disenfranchised Ohio voters in 2004.
That's point number 1.

Point number 2: You're not the only veteran on this board. Did you know Skittles is a veteran? You ever read a post where Skittles is SCREAMING?

Vote Obama or vote for dead Americans? Such hyperbole. What have you done about the domestic violence issue lately? Plenty of dead Americans there, mostly women, quite a few children. I mention that because although Iraq is certainly a disturbing issue, it has turned everyone's eyes away from the horrid events that occur every day across America, behind closed doors.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. No, it's NOT "hyperbole" one single bit. Here's why:
Ever see a human body torn to pieces body before your very eyes? Ever seen violent death up close and personal? Ever worn the uniform of your country? I have on all counts. And as to my "screaming," well, I guess people are passionate about things now and again on this post. And no, I'm far from the only vet and don't claim to be the only one. SO fine. I get a little more impassioned at times than do others. Ah well. So sad if were all clones.

You don't get it. You just don't get it. I NEVER say "vote Obama or vote for dead Americans." I say, "Vote against the Dem nominee and FOR McCain then you are RESPONSIBLE if he were to win and implement his insane war policy." Do you get it now? READ what is said, not what you READ into it.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
49. Read your post again. That's exactly what you said: "Vote Obama or vote for dead Americans."
I haven't seen what you've seen, and you haven't seen what I've seen. Shall we have coffee and compare the horrors? I don't think that would accomplish much. (As for wearing the uniform, I did try to enlist, and they told me I was too old. Hahaha. I was 35 at the time. Things have changed.)

You have your priorities for outrage, and I have mine.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
72. My OP is premised on Obama as the nominee. I am NOT saying that a vote for Hillary is a vote for
McCain. I AM saying that a vote against the nominee, who WILL be Obama, is a vote for McCain and, hence, a vote for McCain's POLICIES which include ENDLESS war in Iraq. Keep it in context, and understand the meaning please.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. KERRY conceded OH in '04. How do you attribute that to Obama????????
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. Read my post again.
Obama showed no concern about the disenfranchisement of the Ohio voters. Don't be surprised that a backup plan was already in the works, which would explain Kerry's swift capitulation. He will be rewarded for his complacency and his complicity.
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barack the house Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
33. Vote for McCain vote for dead Americans. It's the death sentence they put on themselves...
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 09:23 PM by barack the house
If Katrina doesn't show a shape of things to come under McCain nothing will really.
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. I totally agree... anyone who doesn't vote for the Dem has blood on their hands.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
39. And REMEMBER, the OP is premised on Obama as the nominee. However,
if Hillary were the nominee and Obama supporters said THEY would sit out for vote McCain, my opinion would be IDENTICAL. (The fact remains, however, that it is mathematically impossible for Hillary to win at this stage, so her supporters must close ranks and vote for Obama as the nominee and against McBUSH lest they endorse McBUSH's endless war policy. ANd this CRAP about "sitting out" over sour grapes is also, on EITHER side, just as bad. If you are Democrat or a Progressive Independent, either vote for the DEM or you are indeed complicit in allowing the endless Iraq war policy to continue. This HUGE national issues are the issue, not any one individual. Our nation is the issue. Our moral standing in the world is an issue. Ending the flow of body bags out of Iraq is the issue. Period.)
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
42. Amen to that
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
43. why are you preaching to the choir?
this is a group of very informed people. I'll bet every person here will vote, and not for McCain.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Ah, some have talked about sitting out and voting McCain. Some are certainly thinking about it.
Others are being very divisive in general and predicting a McCain win. Many of us KNOW people who are Dems claiming to switch or sit out. I definitely know one person like this. That's why.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. that's incredulous to me.
have they learned nothing in the past 7 and a half years?
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Bleacher Creature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #52
79. Incredulous?
Take a look at the crap in this sanctimonous jerk's thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6216408
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Not all in the choir are singing in the same key.
In fact, some are atonal. :dunce:



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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. they should take one look at your sig
and remember why they can't vote for McCain.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Exactly!


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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
51. Sitting out an election in an completely safe Dem state isn't that big of a deal.
Illinois, NY, MA ect.

My only reservation is that I will not vote for an Obama/Edwards ticket, and living in Illinois, I have that luxury.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #51
73. How in hell can you advocate abdicating your civic and moral duty for god sake??
Is this message we should be sending to our kids? This from a progressive? Chucking your wonderful right to practice democracy because it is "safe"?? What the hell is our country coming to???
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. The right to choose not to vote is just as sacred as the right to vote IMHO.
I have bit my tongue in the past, but I would never compromise my principles.

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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
66. The word you are looking for is TREASON.
anyone, ANYONE that votes for WeatherVane McCain is commiting treason against the people of the this nation. period.

I don't give a damn what your excuse is, you don't have one.

Treason.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #66
76. So anyone who votes McCain
is worthy of death (according to our constitution). Good luck with that freeper argument.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #66
77. What do you call dictating how an American must vote?
The law of absolutes does not contain any demands.
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
78. You sound like
a republican--same tactics.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
80. How do you feel about Obama saying he would attack Pakistan?
Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government, a move that would likely cause anxiety in the already troubled region.

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0132206420070801

Just askin'
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
81. Iraq? Oh, yeah. That's the war Hillary voted for. The one that sunk her presidential campaign.
McCain? Isn't he the guy that Hillary thinks is more qualified to be president than Obama?
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
82. when reasonable people calm down and compare their records - reason will prevail
I have heard some people say that since Sen. McCain is a liberal or moderate Republican - he really wouldn't be that bad. After all he is against torture, he supported campaign finance reform and he accepts the scientific consensus about global warming.

But let's take a look and compare how different their voting records actually are.

Let's see if Sen. McCain is REALLY such a moderate or liberal Republican or a maverick:

All figures are interest group ratings from 2007, except when those figures were not available, in such cases I will post the ratings from 2006 or 2005-2006:

The link for Sen. McCain's ratings on Project Vote Smart:

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=53270&type=category&category=45&go.x=10&go.y=12

The link for Sen. Obama's ratings on Project Vote Smart:

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=9490

Abortion Issues


In 2007 NARAL Pro-Choice America gave Senator Obama a grade of 100.

In 2007 NARAL Pro-Choice America gave Senator McCain a grade of 0.

Animal Welfare Issues



Senator Obama supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 75 percent in 2007.

Senator McCain supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 25 percent in 2007.
_________________________________

Civil Rights and Human Rights Issues


2007 American Civil Liberties Union gave Senator Obama a grade of 80.

2007 American Civil Liberties Union gave Senator McCain a grade of 50.
______________________________________________________________

2007 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 85 percent in 2007

2007 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 15 percent in 2007.
________________________________________________________________________

2006 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Americans United for the Separation of Church and State 100 percent in 2006.

2006 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans United for the Separation of Church and State 33 percent in 2006.
________________________________________________________________________

2005-2006 Senator Obama supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 83 percent in 2005-2006.

2005-2006 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 33 percent in 2005-2006.
________________________________________________________________________

2005-2006 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 89 percent in 2005-2006

2005-2005 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 33 percent in
________________________________________________________________________

Conservative Issues


Senator Obama supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 7 percent in 2007.

Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 80 percent in 2007.
_______________________________________________________________________

Education Issues


2007 National Education Association gave Senator Obama a grade of A.

2997 National Education Association gave Senator McCain a grade of F.
___________________________________________________________


Senator Obama supported the interests of the Teachers of English to Speakers of Other Languages (TESOL) 100 percent in 2007

Senator McCain supported the interests of the Teachers of English to Speakers of Other Languages (TESOL) 0 percent in 2007.
________________________________________________________________________

Energy Issues


2005-2006 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Campaign for America's Future 100 percent in 2005-2006 on energy legislation.

2005-2006 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Campaign for America's
Future 17 percent in 2005-2006 on energy legislation.
____________________________________________________________

Environmental Issues


2007 Based on a point system, with points assigned for actions in support of or in opposition to League of Conservation Voters's position, Senator Obama received a rating of 67.

2007 Based on a point system, with points assigned for actions in support of or in opposition to League of Conservation Voters's position, Senator McCain received a rating of 0.
______________________________________________________________

Family and Children Issues


2007 Based on a point system, with points assigned for actions in support of or in opposition to Children's Defense Fund's position, Senator Obama received a rating of 60.

2007 Based on a point system, with points assigned for actions in support of or in opposition to Children's Defense Fund's position, Senator McCain received a rating of 10.
________________________________________________________
(The Family Research Council is an extremely right-wing organization found and lead by Dr. Richard Dobson)

2007 In 2007 Family Research Council gave Senator Obama a grade of 0.

In 2007 Family Research Council gave Senator McCain a grade of 42.
_______________________________________________________________

Foreign Aid and Policy Issues


Senator Obama supported the interests of the Council for a Livable World 81 percent in 2007

Senator McCain supported the interests of the Council for a Livable World 0 percent in 2007.
____________________________________________________________________

Senator Obama supported the interests of the Peace Action 67 percent in 2006

Senator McCain supported the interests of the Peace Action 50 percent in 2006
________________________________________________________________


Senator Obama supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 83 percent in 2005-2006.

Senator McCain supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 25 percent in 2005-2006
______________________________________________________________________.

Health Issues


Senator Obama supported the interests of the American Academy of Family Physicians 100 percent in 2007.

Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Academy of Family Physicians 0 percent in 2007
________________________________________________________________________


Senator Obama supported the interests of the American Academy of Emergency Medicine 100 percent in 2005-2006

Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Academy of Emergency Medicine 0 percent in 2005-2006.
__________________________________________________________________


Senator Obama supported the interests of the American Nurses Association 100 percent in 2005-2006.

Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Nurses Association 20 percent in 2005-2006.
_____________________________________________________________________

Labor


Senator Obama supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2007.

Senator McCain supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 0 percent in 2007.
______________________________________________________________________

Senator Obama supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 75 percent in 2007.

Senator McCain supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 8 percent in 2007.
________________________________________________________________________

Liberal


Senator Obama supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 75 percent in 2007

Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 10 percent in 2007.
_________________________________________________________________

Senator Obama supported the interests of the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score 95.5 percent in 2007.

Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy 40 percent in 2007

Veterans Issues


2006 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 80 percent in 2006.

2006 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 20 percent in 2006.
________________________________________________________________

2006 In 2006 Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America gave Senator Obama a grade of B+.

2006 In 2006 Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America gave Senator McCain a grade of D.
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