Get ready to flame the hell out of me

[oldtime dfl_er]

Now that the long battle for the nomination is nearly over, I want to say something about the Obama supporters here at DU. Get ready to flame me because you aren't going to like what I am about to say.

I've been a member of DU - a paying member - for four years, and in that time I have never seen bullying, swearing, cursing, unmitigated anger, sense of entitlement, and complete and utter rudeness such as some here have displayed in the last six months. Yes, there have been Hillary supporters who have been less than civil, but in my opinion, most of the Hillary people (of which I was one for awhile) simply walked away from the vitriol and bullying that was being perpetrated here.

And it's still going on today. I plead with you, please stop it. Hillary has every right to fight this battle to the end. You may not like it, you may think it's divisive, you may feel strongly that she's taking the wrong course. And that's your right. But within the Democratic party, Hillary has every right to do what she's doing. I WANT someone who's going to fight to the end for every last vote. I LIKE that quality. That doesn't mean I necessarily agree with everything she's done. But it was John Kerry's concession that pissed me off to where I found DU in the first place. It was a place where fighting for every vote meant something.

So this is a post to ask for a civil end to this part of the process. Please, Obama people, you have won. Be gracious. Be civil. Quit with the attacks. Stop the namecalling. We need to be united as never before if we're going to win the White House in the fall.

[grantcart]

1. restraint is in our interest focus on the GE

There are idiots on both sides

[DevonRex]

2. I have always been respectful to Hillary supporters who have

NOT posted crap about Obama or Obama's wife.

Hillary has every right to continue until midnight Tuesday.

[Hoof Hearted]

56. If by "crap" you mean someting you didn't want to hear then patting yourself on your back

for exercising "restraint" is probably excessive.

Hillary has every right to continue until the convention, just as Kennedy did against Carter.

[Labors of Hercules]

107. See, this is what we're talking about.

CARTER LOST IN A LANDSLIDE!!! hello. :wtf:

[bigbrother05]

109. Yeah, that worked out well. Thanks Mr. Ickes.

Maybe if HRC had cited that election and that Kennedy, she might have pulled it out. As often as BHO had to overcome things said by those around him, HRC refused to own up to her words or Bill's.

[hfojvt]

131. everyone usually has a right to be an a$$hole

but that doesn't make them less of an a$$hole when they do something a$$holish, does it?

[Usrename]

179. Exactly! There's still a whole lot more damage that she could do!

And tons more money that she could be wasting fighting against a fellow Democrat.


:banghead:

(do I need to add this sarcasm thingy?) :sarcasm:

[bvar22]

113. Nader had every right to run in Florida in 2000.

How did that work out?

Hillary stayed in the "fight" long after she had any chance to win the nomination.
By needlessly attacking obama and forcing Obama and the Democratic Party to waste valuable resources, she has hurt our chances in November.....

But, yes, she had the right.

[comrade snarky]

117. Exactly!

I have the right to go to a hardware store and buy 5 pounds of ball bearings, take them home and swallow them one by one.

Is it a good idea? No.

But by god I have that right.

[Tarc]

162. Nader wasn't a fucking DEMOCRAT, genius

Analogy == fail.

[bvar22]

199. It is a very good comparison.

It gives everyone a recent historical incident that clearly shows the destructive insanity of "vanity" campaigns.
At least Nader had the decency to run against the Democrat from outside the Democratic Party.

Running a vanity campaign against the Democratic nominee from inside the Party (Hillary) is far, far worse.

[Raster]

172. Memo to you: Gore won Florida.

Find another example. Perhaps one that's accurate.

[bvar22]

211. Memo to you:

Nader's vanity campaign in Florida hurt the Democratic Party.

Hillary's Vanity Campaign (post Feb 2nd) has hurt the Democratic Party.

I'll stick with my example, but thanks for your concern.

[Raster]

217. My pleasure.

[WillyToad]

166. And have you shunned Obama supporters who posted 'Crap' about Hillary?

Or did you gleefully join them?

[berni_mccoy]

3. I'm one of the people you are talking about. And I appreciate your post. Thanks.

[oldtime dfl_er]

12. Thank you!

Thanks for listening. :)

[berni_mccoy]

29. You make, IMO, a fair point. I know others don't agree. But, I've dished out my fair share and

I'll own up to it.

[Auntie Bush]

98. You're dished out much MORE than your share.

In fact...you are one of the worst! But I certainly accept with happiness your humble change in attitude. Thanks!

But with that off my chest...glad to see you realize your errors and will reform/repent for the good of the party. We can't win without unity. As long as the anti-Hillary attacks continue...there will be NO uniting!

[stevenleser]

156. Its unfortunate, though, that you and other HRC supporters dont own up to your part

I'm completely happy to take responsibility for dishing out whatever I did in support of my candidate. I will do the same if the McCainites hurl anything similar or worse at Barack.

If you cannot take it, dont dish it out. I would MUCH rather discuss issues than things like pastors, bittergate, ayers, Tuzla, Travelgate, Monica-gate who had what position on NAFTA and when, McCain's temper, Cindy's crimes, etc. McCain has the same choice Hillary and her supporters had. If you want to wallow in the muck, I will meet you there and take it a step further. If you don't like it, don't go there to begin with. That is simple, isn't it?

[ExPatLeftist]

170. Pots and kettles? Throwing stones in glass houses?

Condescending unintentional irony much?

[ExPatLeftist]

173. So there will be no unity until all people on the Internet stop being mean?

Come on, we both know that attacks will continue from INDIVIDUALS on both sides. We each control nothing but ourselves. Are you seriously putting the criteria at any and all Internet attacks for the unification of the party? Does that sound just the slightest bit unrealistic and immature to you?

We are individuals, not a hive-mind... :eyes:

[stevenleser]

178. Yes, its an amazing statement! We need to control the entire internet in order to appease Hillbots

so they will support the candidate whose positions they agree with against misogynist, anti-feminist, anti-choice McCain.

This is the kind of shit I am talking about. They want us to be humble in our victory, which I am all for, and then they come at us with this unbelievable crap.

[Olney Blue]

140. I'm impressed that you posted this.

[Imagevision]

4. Hey! Hillary is no different then Huckabee, finally it'll be over after superdelgates have voted

[jezebel]

5. It's a bit disingenuous to ask for "a civil end" right after attacking Obama posters. nt

[oldtime dfl_er]

16. No, it isn't

I never said the other side was blameless. I am not attacking anyone. I am requesting that we begin the process of healing and unity and I am speaking to YOU.

[chascarrillo]

130. Yes, it is.

[BlooInBloo]

17. No it's not

It's *completely* disingenuous.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

151. Did I just step into the Argument Clinic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

[LSK]

6. its hard to stop it when you see ridiculous posts from Hillary supporters

Such as the lie about popular vote. False claims of sexism. The "why'd he" issue. The empty suit attacks. Calling Obama a weak candidate.

Hopefully a week from now much of this will go away.

The last valid arguments put forth by the Hillary supporters happened some 2 months ago and its been nonstop nonsense ever since.

When I came to DU some 4+ years ago, I expected debate to include facts and logic. That has been seriously lacking here for some time.

[dionysus]

7. if you think the nastiness is one-sided you really haven't been paying attention at all...

seriously...

[oldtime dfl_er]

9. I didn't say that

please don't put words in my mouth

[dionysus]

24. no, you very clearly implied it. your second paragraph.

[Bake]

77. That's because you are one of the ones OP is referring to.

And unlike bernie_mc, you can't admit it. Your "banky" and other flamebaiting, e.g.

But hey. Your guy won.

Bake

[dionysus]

152. here Bake, you can have one on the house;

:):):)

[Bake]

183. Thanks! My dogs will enjoy playing with it!

:hi:

Bake

[dionysus]

203. it's all fun and games in GDP

:hi:

[Terran]

202. You seriously under-described the behavior of some HRC supporters

Yes, there have been Hillary supporters who have been less than civil, but in my opinion, most of the Hillary people (of which I was one for awhile) simply walked away from the vitriol and bullying that was being perpetrated here.

If you think this is an adequate description of what's been going on here, you haven't been paying attention...or just don't want to face that reality. Any 'nastiness' coming from Obama people came *as a result* of the incredible things some HRC people have said. And to be specific, I think freely quoting/using right wing sources in talking about Obama is what really pissed a lot of us off.

[pipi_k]

165. Of course I can't speak for the OP, but...

it seems to me that what's being said (or implied) is that yes...there have been nasty things said on both sides...

BUT

some people actually cringe when the attacks are coming from their own side.

Because some people expect more from their own than they do from the other side.

I'm an Obama supporter, yet there have been times I've had to back quickly out of topics because I was so embarrassed by some of the awful things being said by my fellow Obama supporters.

Maybe it sounds a bit like I'm putting down Hillary supporters because if they get nasty, well, after all, what should we expect? I don't mean that at all... But I do expect to see something better from the guys on my side.

Just like, for instance, I expect my country to act better than some other countries we presume to be better than.

This "They said it first so we have to retaliate" crap just doesn't fly, you know? Rational adults don't...or shouldn't....act like five year old kids. I figure that's why there's a "preview" button. To allow people to read, and re-read and re-re-read what they write and take a few minutes to calm down before pressing the "post message" button.

Whatever....anyway, I just felt I had to help make a case for civility on both sides

:yoiks:

[cbayer]

8. Makes you wonder what their real objective is.

When I see people attacked here for:

1) supporting a democratic candidate
2) daring to say anything even mildly critical of Obama
3) having thee audacity to support a joint ticket
4) asking some posters to bring it down a notch or two
5) suggesting that Obama supporters extend a gracious hand to Clinton supporters

it makes me wonder what their goal really is.

Anyway, good try on your part.

[onehandle]

10. Good post. You got it exactly right. nt

[Zavulon]

11. As far as I'm concerned, let her fight to the very end. It's her right.

However, her IWR vote and her refusal to admit it was a mistake, in my view, makes her worthy of every name she's been called on DU and then some. Then there's all of her absurd lies (no way we'd let a Repug get away with that Bosnian sniper fire bullshit) and her RFK comment (followed by the classy decision to hide behind Ted Kennedy's brain cancer in her so-called apology)...quite frankly, I think most of the Hillary haters here have shown more restraint than I consider necessary.

I'm an Obama supporter who has been very vocal against Hillary here, I've called her every name I can think of, and I'll continue to do so. However, I have never called for her to throw in the towel and I won't start now. She has the right to go on as long as she wants, and I have the right to call her whatever I want. Even if she gets her wish and wins the nomination, she'll still have my vote - just not my vocal support. I do not think we all need to hold hands, prance along the woodside pond and give her a pass because of the 'D' after her name to beat John McStain.

[oldtime dfl_er]

21. great reply

sounds like you "get it"!! :)

[Zavulon]

74. Thanks.

Unfortunately, not everyone does. You should see some of the replies I get from Hillbots. It's amazing what they're willing to let her get away with and still support her. Vote for the IWR, make references to assassination, hide behind Ted's brain cancer as her excuse, lie like a Repug - who cares? She gets a pass for everything.

[LisaM]

80. This is your unity talk?

Methinks you've missed the point.

[Zavulon]

104. No, that's me putting forth facts.

If I were in Obama's shoes and trying to unite the country, though, I wouldn't offer Hillary anything in my administration. I don't believe that throwing bones to polarizing people and excusing their repeated horrific judgment has anything to do with unity.

I truly believe Barack is interested in unity and healing. I truly believe Hillary is interested only in Hillary. People like that have no place in a decent administration.

[sallyseven]

194. I hope that she would turn down any

association with Barak Obama. The MSM is already starting to bring up stuff about him. Boston Globe on the front page is starting to call into question his appeal. "56 contests 35 million votes cast finally one apparent winner, barely."

Get a grip. Take a hard look at the American public, Do you believe if he was so great about half of the voters did not vote for him? Your black hearts have robbed you of common decency.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

198. This is

another delusional post.

Your "black" hearts have robbed you?

Do I have to say that this is a racist post?

[Zavulon]

218. If she was so great,

how did she lose to someone with so little experience and with ties to a church that the MSM tried to fry him for? Could it be that she's more of the same problem, a choronic liar, and the most unlikable candidate we've had in years? Or could it be that she was too busy ducking Bosnian sniper fire to campaign effectively? :rofl:

As for my "black heart," that's the only color my heart has for a Democratic candidate who voted for Bush's fucking war. SHE lost her common decency years ago, doesn't give a rat's ass about anything or anyone but herself, and I've got nothing but contempt for her. I don't owe her a goddamned thing, not even common decency. Obama doesn't owe her anything either, and I'd sooner see him offer the VP slot to any Democrat EXCEPT her.

[PoliticalAmazon]

35. It's NOT her right to try to steal the primary election, however....

We fought Bush Jr when he did it in Florida in 2000, and I think we MUST fight HIllary now.

[flowomo]

13. I agree.

I've also been here since '04; I voted for Obama, still like Clinton, and hope they pair up for the GE. The calls to banish Clinton from the party, or ban the use of her name on DU, are ridiculous.

[helderheid]

14. K&R

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. Everyone should remember that they have the right

to not reply to posts that are flamebait. Far better in that case to simply ALERT and move on, I think.

Kindly remember that on a message board like this, the only way people know you is by your words. And the words you use reflect only upon you.

[Number23]

121. Really good point

Everyone should remember that they have the right to not reply to posts that are flamebait. Far better in that case to simply ALERT and move on

That's where I think things start to go horribly wrong. Somebody posts something stupid and then others think it's their job to point out over and over and over and over again how wrong that person is.

Or the ones who have anointed themselves members of the Troll Patrol and disrespect everyone whom they suspect of trolling. Some of these folks act not only as if someone has actually ASKED them to do this, but as if they are being paid. The image of the portly, desperately lonely, poorly groomed "Internet Warrior" immediately springs to mind whenever they surface.....

[TacticalPeek]

18. Double amen.

But I'm afraid that toothpaste has already left the tube.

:(

[Rageneau]

52. My sentiments exactly.

Any Obama supporters who think that I will EVER forget the lies and slanders posted on this board about Hillary Clinton are dead wrong.

I will never support Obama. Nor will I donate to the Party or work at precinct headquarters as I usually do.

Not because I have anything against BO personally -- I could have voted for him enthusiastically -- but because I loathe the character-assassinating strategy of his campaign and loathe those hateful supporters of his who -- with the gleeful assistance of the GOP-dominated MSM -- spewed out lies and slanders until they covered the Clintons like pus.

The very best I plan to offer the Obama Campaign in November is to honor mny promise to stay home.

I put principle above politics. Hate-filled slander is something I will forever oppose and will never reward with my vote, regardless of which campaign it comes from.

[DefenseLawyer]

62. Okay I'll play: What are the top 3 "hate filled slanders" perpetrated by the Obama campaign?

Any order would be fine.

[stevenleser]

159. < crickets >

... ;-)

[DefenseLawyer]

175. Anyone?... Anyone.?... Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?... n/t

[MattBaggins]

65. Everything you said

could be directed right back Hillary and her supporters. Switch around Obama and Clinton in your rant and it's how the other side feels.

[Swamp Rat]

70. "I will never support Obama."

"The very best I plan to offer the Obama Campaign in November is to honor mny promise to stay home." - Do you not give a shit about us in New Orleans? The GOP certainly does not.

I ask you to cast your vote for the Dem nominee, no matter who it is. Do it for me, and my brothers and sisters in New Orleans who only have hope at this point.

Thousands are still homeless, living under bridges:

[sniffa]

94. Lunatics can't be reasoned with

Let them go, as they're a dying breed anyway.

[tnlefty]

147. Tears in my eyes again.

:hug:

[Shoelace]

163. thank you for sharing those heartbreaking pictures

and how could any real Democrat NOT vote for our candidate this year after 8 horrible years of Bush, his lies, deceit, corrupt corporate cronies, countless treasonous deeds?

There's New Orleans with it's thousands of homeless as well as millions of hungry, homeless people all over this land in every city. the never ending Iraq war, thousands of wounded veterans whose problems will never be addressed by another Republican president and cabinet. Environmental issues that make me wonder if it will be tomorrow when I hear the last birdsong. Infrastructure issues that, if not addressed, will see our country rot and crumble from the inside, never mind the "enemy" from the outside. Un-affordable health care has left millions without any means to treat treatable diseases.

We could all add dozens of other issues to that list but suffice it to say that we all know that any Democratic candidate could do far better than these Republicans have done. WE NEED CHANGE NOW!

Once an HRC supporter myself who switched to Obama, I understand the frustration but cannot accept this "no forgiveness, no vote" meme. It's fake to the max and probably perpetrated by the GOP IMHO.

[Mad_Dem_X]

180. Amen. How could ANY Dem

choose staying home to voting for a Dem, simply because they don't like some of that candidate's supporters? Pardon my language, but that's fucking crazy! Withholding your vote is, to me, the same as voting for the other side. For Christ's sake, do it not for yourself, but for your country!!!!

[Shoelace]

200. indeed, a non-vote is a vote for 4 more years of Lies, War, & Treason

and yes, it's treason in my book to be a Democrat and NOT vote this time for any reason. There is simply no good reason unless one is a Republican in drag, to not vote for our candidate for all the reasons I stated in my previous post.

[Erin Elizabeth]

95. Trying to make sure I understand you completely:

it's not so much the candidate himself that you have a problem with. In fact, you say you would have voted for him enthusiastically.

And I'm assuming you wouldn't have a problem with having a Democrat in the White House again for the first time in eight years.

But because of what some SUPPORTERS of his said on an internet message board, you are going to stay home, thus possibly enabling 4-8 more years of Republicans?

Do I have that right?

[Raineyb]

97. If you make your election choices based on what somebody on a message board did

It says a lot more about you than it does the supporters.

There are a lot of Clinton supporters talking smack about not voting for Obamba. These same people twists themselves into knots to try to come up with a feasible reason as to why. It's not Obama's policies, they claim they would be able under different circumstances. I can guess what that different circumstance is. At any rate, their reasons always come up short.

Some folks won't say it but what the hell I will; if you're a Democrat and you won't vote for Obama and you come up with a lame ass excuse like "his supporters were mean to me" your problem isn't the Obama supporters you ran into. It's your own racism. Face it, correct it and move on.

I have no bloody patience for this nonsense. I've about had it with white people who have no problem with my vote; as long as I vote for the candidate they approve.

This primary contest has been a huge eye opener about the state of race relations and we are not nearly as far along as we've been deluding ourselves. Perhaps a black President can change that.

Regards

[Number23]

123. Wow!

I've about had it with white people who have no problem with my vote; as long as I vote for the candidate they approve.

Very powerful stuff, Rainey. I would have loved your feedback and opinion on a thread I did a few days ago asking how black women felt about the Democratic election process. But after reading your post here, I think I have a good idea anyway. :-)

[Raineyb]

126. I wish I had seen it

But I will make a point of looking it up at a decent hour. (Which, admittedly, this is not.)

Regards

[Mad_Dem_X]

181. Well said! nt

[PerpetuallyDazed]

108. Obama has done nothing but be gracious towards her in public.

...even going as far to CLARIFY ON HER BEHALF her "assassination" comments.

[Olney Blue]

141. True- he has been a great example for all of us!

[muryan]

115. Unforunate

But we would have loved to have your vote.

[Kajsa]

155. Excuse me?

" because I loathe the character-assassinating strategy of his campaign".

What in the hell are you talking about?

[lumberjack_jeff]

169. Politics is principle.

It is short-sighted in the extreme to refuse to vote for a candidate who represents your interests reasonably well because some of his supporters are assholes.

If you vote for Obama, some of your principles may become policy. If you don't vote, none will.

This lord-of-the-flies shit around here got tedious, but if Obama's the nominee, I'll vote for him.

[here_is_to_hope]

188. Want to borrow a mirror? Or is this a seagull post?

"....but because I loathe the character-assassinating strategy of his campaign and loathe those hateful supporters of his who -- with the gleeful assistance of the GOP-dominated MSM -- spewed out lies and slanders until they covered the Clintons like pus."

Stay home then with your 'principles', hope they keep you all warm and fuzzy.
Asshole.

[a la izquierda]

192. change your voter registration then.

i cannot stand hrc. i cannot stand her advisors and 99% of her campaign staff. i think Ickes is a douchebag. i will be appalled if she somehow wins the nomination. and if she does, i will thank god every day that i'll be in mexico and won't have to listen to her much. but i will spend whatever money it will cost me to fedex my damned absentee ballot with a check mark next to her name. and i live in a state that won't even elect her (oklahoma). it took me a long time to come to that conclusion. i will hold my nose and attempt not to gag but i am a registered democrat, dammit, and i will vote for OUR CANDIDATE.
i'm not trying to be self-righteous, but some of you folks need to get a friggin' clue.

hate filled slander? your candidate is no effin' saint!!! i really, truly wish some people would knock these candidates down a few pegs and realize that they are human fucking beings, not gods or cult heroes.
Stay home! And watch the repukes laugh at the bitchin' and moanin' of the HRC masses who stayed home instead of doing their civic duty and voting, even though they may have been dismayed.

[Barrymores Ghost]

207. Two things: You've never named a single thing the Obama Campaign has said or done...

...that constitutes a "hate-filled slander" or a "character assassination" of HRC, and you've essentially admitted that you would do your part to sandbag your own party and your own country, just because you want to lash out against DUers who pissed you off.

Do you not realize that this is completely irrational, childish, counter-productive, and bordering on insanity? Can you not see that this only reinforces everything that those with whom you disagree have claimed, regarding what Hillary's real purposes are in dragging this campaign on and dragging Obama through the mud? Can you not recognize that it is YOU who have allowed yourself to be manipulated, and played for a fool, by the very people you support?

Here's a suggestion: take some time off from here, permanently if you must. The primary is over. Obama will be the Democratic nominee. You think long and hard about what you want for yourself, for your family, for your country. Ask yourself if you would have every other disgruntled Hillary supporter follow your example, and what that would mean for our collective future. Ask yourself if you would be satisfied with that result...if it would make you feel happy to see John McCain take the White House in November, to see an endless occupation of Iraq, to send thousands more service members to their deaths, to kill hundreds of thousands more innocent civilians, to completely bankrupt this nation. Because, by your own admission, by your own example, this is what you would have for all of us -- just because you think you have a point to make.

Well, I gotta tell ya -- that's about as un-American, as un-principled, as hate-filled and as loathsome a thing as you or anyone who calls himself or herself a progressive or a liberal or a Democrat could do.

You want to rise above something? Try rising above your own ego, your own pride, your own sour grapes, and that massive chip you have on your shoulder. Do that, and then you can lecture the rest of us on your principles. Stay at home on Election Day, and you forgo your right to bitch about ANYTHING, EVER, again.

[NYC_SKP]

19. Agreed on unity, but for crying out loud!

It's not so hard to watch her spin and twist facts. She is, after all, a product of all those surrounding her.
But to watch Ickes and others perpetuate the division and misleading is just unacceptable to my sense of integrity and fairness.
I have nothing against her supporters, not a thing.
I have sympathy for them, for having had such sincere admiration for her and for being let down by her.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

20. Tell The Enablers to stop falling for Hillary's lies and maybe we can work

to heal the divide. But there has been vitriol from BOTH sides. The attacks from the Obama side are reactionary just as the reactions are from the Hillary side. The threats to vote for McCain if Hillary loses, empty, unfounded claims of Obama's sexism...these are the issues that divide and cause discord.

If you are really concerned about healing this party, then stop with the lies about sexism; false claims that Clinton is winning the popular vote; failure to acknowledge that Obama has run a fabulous campaign and has, for the most part, taken the high road.

Obama supporters are not innocent, me included, but you can't blame us if we are angry with how Hillary has run her campaign and how she has exploited race and gender for her own personal and political gain. Our expression of that anger is justified.

I promise that if Hillary people cease with creating discord and division surrounding their candidate, then there'll be more civility around these parts.

[jsmirman]

100. Exactly- Hillary actually drove me to get politically active, I've been so deeply offended

by her immoral position on Michigan and Florida. And Hillary is part of a team that pushed Kerry off the cliff when he had a chance to legitimately challenge something, so how can this not be a level of hypocrisy that threatens to make your head explode? THE VERY THING THAT YOU SAY PISSED YOU OFF IS SOMETHING HILLARY PUSHED KERRY TO DO.

:banghead:


Which is a similar level of hypocrisy to her

"caucuses are wonderful/caucuses are disenfranchising"

"I respect the unique position of Iowa and New Hampshire/I don't need those votes anymore, let's seat Michigan and Florida and to hell with that unique position"

"My people on the rules committee made the decision to penalize MI and FL/I need those votes, so fuck the rules committee"

Can't you see where people who have a certain sense of morality have a hard time being civil to people supporting this kind of horse shit???

And she does NOT have a right to continue battling for a lost cause when there is no hope and no point other than hurting the party at such a crucial time, and she does NOT have the right to go about her campaign in the nasty and dishonorable way she's gone about it.

You say you've never seen nastiness like this around DU?

WE'VE NEVER HAD A CANDIDATE DO THE THINGS TO ANOTHER DEMOCRAT THAT HILLARY HAS DONE AND WE'VE NEVER HAD A CANDIDATE BEHAVE LIKE HILLARY.

[dmr]

127. I would love unity too, but what you say is true

I recognize her right to continue in the primary, but to me, it is akin of a winning football team that continues to run up their score just because they can. But teams don't. Why? It could be injurious and it is bad sportsmanship.

I think the kicker for the Obama supporters is the unwillingness of most of those who support Hillary to acknowledge the pain we felt watching and listening as Hillary, Bill, and her campaign say and do some of the wickedest GOP tactics against Obama, yet in the same breath say good and kind things about John McCain. People lash out when emotions are high.

The last few months have pained me to witness this from a Democrat I once trusted and respected. Some of the worse for me has been since the Pennsylvania primary when she started up with the white people tactics and then using the women's movement to heat up the voters. Hillary did not begin to become strong until she started to attack Obama. If her plan was to be divisive, it worked. She planted poisonous seeds that did not and should not have been planted. It is offensive to me as a Democrat, a woman, a boomer, as an American.

As an older woman, who has lived and survived in the working world of misogynous men, banks, car dealers, landlords and the like, I certainly didn't appreciate her using feminism as a crutch. I don't need a woman president to validate my past suffering. Any woman who does, and uses Hillary as their outlet has not thought this through, or has other conflicts.

It would help me if Hillary apologized but I know she will not. That said. I think we all need to think about what we say before we say it, and be able to credibly back what is said.

[The Doctor.]

22. Don't let a handful of children lead you to broadbrush the whole.

Please.

[oldtime dfl_er]

28. No, I don't

I may not have been clear enough - that I'm definitely NOT talking about all Obama supporters - of which I'm now one and have been for awhile. I think he's going to be a stunningly transformative president, but the point is it's up to US to get him to the White House.

[Kokonoe]

23. Hillary... says its not over. Lets stop twisting the resulting end.

“Let’s keep fighting,” she concluded. “Let’s keep fighting. Let's keep fighting. Let's keep fighting. Hillary Clinton 06/01/2008

[L0oniX]

25. ...

[oldtime dfl_er]

30. LOL

Well, at least you're direct!!!

[Indenturedebtor]

26. I will continue to flame someone when they come here to spread lies

I will not humor lies, and when someone flames I will respond with glee.

[NashVegas]

36. How Will You Know What's Truth And What's Lies?

Will you spam up a thread like this, simply because it presents information you don't like?

[Indenturedebtor]

93. Well nobody is perfect

But the first example that springs to mind is the assertion that Obama has gotten less negative media attention than HRC. Another one is that oh so popular one about Obama smoking crack and picking up gay prostitutes etc.

I will flame anyone who says things like that with glee! :woohoo:

[sfam]

27. Regardless of our feelings toward either candidate, we can all hope this draws to a close, and can..

focus on the GE. At that point, Hillary will work her heart out to mend fences and get Obama elected. If so, hopefully the angry feelings on both sides will disapear. Regardless, I agree that both sides need to draw down, and hopefully those who left (or were asked to leave) can return.

[Buzz Clik]

31. The daily scolding. "Thank you. May I have another?"

[FlaGranny]

32. Ignore is my friend now.

My ignored list has really cut down on my urge to call names. I haven't done it, but I have sure wanted to. I don't see any of the flame bait posts by "ignored" and therefore get no urge to reply in kind. Yes, we sure do need to be united and I wish someone would tell that to "you know who" - the person who is throwing out all these divisive talking points to stir their base into a frenzy.

[DefenseLawyer]

33. You need to get some perspective.

I mean, no offense, but your assertion that the "Hillary people" have been on the whole civil simply isn't supported by the facts. It is Hillary's supporters who have posted the most scurrilous attacks, from sources like Newsmax and Drudge. Hell just the other day I made a reference to the Godfather, saying that the Hillary campaign had "gone to the mattresses" and was immediately attacked for my "sexist" remark. It is all about perspective. You see everything through a pro-Hillary lens, obviously. Of course we all see the world through our own particular prism. I certainly make no claim to objectivity or enlightenment. Then again, I am not giving lectures on civility. You seem to be excusing anything Hillary or her supporters do or have done by saying she is a "fighter" who has a "RIGHT" to do anything she wants. Personally I think a big reason Hillary is on the losing end has to do with this idea that she has a "right" to do anything she wants because she is Hillary Clinton. If you take that position and then wag your finger at Obama supporters you have zero credibility in my mind. I hope this isn't considered less than civil but, please, save the lectures.

[oldtime dfl_er]

48. Please read my post again, with objectivity

Don't do what you say HIllary does - don't twist my words. I never asserted that the Hillary people have been civil. I certainly never said she has any rights "because she is Hillary Clinton". I'm sorry that your prism seems to be a bit distorted, and you're not able to find the essence of what I'm saying.

I'm talking about unity. Not agreement on issues, tactics, candidates, but unity against the Republicans. Most of the tactics we are currently deriding in Democratic candidates are tactics we'll applaud when they're used in the fall, against Mc Cain.

[Sulawesi]

53. oops, post #51 meant to respond to this.

[DefenseLawyer]

59. Right, it's all about UNITY

I read you post again as you asked. Obama supporters were mean to Hillary. Hillary is a fighter who has the right to fight as long as she wants. I have to admit, I don't think I missed anything the first time. You want unity, as long as that means blaming Obama supporters for Hillary's loss (and Obama supporters apologizing for their transgressions) while at the same time giving blanket immunity to anything Hillary's camp has done in the name of fighting the good fight. On those terms you are all about the unity. How about instead of assessing blame, we all just knock it off and get down to business?

[Sulawesi]

51. "...don't twist my words. I never asserted that the Hillary people have been civil"

"I have never seen bullying, swearing, cursing, unmitigated anger, sense of entitlement, and complete and utter rudeness such as some here have displayed in the last six months. Yes, there have been Hillary supporters who have been less than civil, but in my opinion, most of the Hillary people (of which I was one for awhile) simply walked away from the vitriol and bullying that was being perpetrated here."

I think the spirit of your post was that there was more vitriol from one side. I agree with DefenseLawyer.

[Rose Siding]

142. I agree. I think posts calling out either side at this point are unproductive.

Even though I never really got emotionally involved in any flame outs, you can only see hope-mongering called cultism for so long before you begin to really really resent it.

See how unproductive it is to have to call up examples? It makes me feel bad to remember that and I'm sure it makes Hillary supporters remember hurts they've had with which to counter mine.

No one needs to say "yeah we were wrong, you were right". Now is a time for some to mourne, some to rejoice and for all to make peace. No one needs to be wrong for that to happen.

[EstimatedProphet]

148. That's simply not true

[PoliticalAmazon]

34. Kumbaya is not a smart tactic to use against election stealers....

Which is what Hillary and her remaining supporters are trying to do.

Trying to change the rules and change the way votes are counted to an outcome that will make Hillary the winner of the primary election is exactly what Bush Jr did in 2000.

I'm not going to sit here meekly like a good Democratic Party Doormat and allow Hillary and her remaining supporters to wipe their feet on the election process, and attempt to steal the election.

[Symarip]

37. I'm in it for the ponies.

I don't know what you're talking about.

[beachmom]

38. I remember the Hillary supporters going after Kerry in 2005 in a very nasty way.

So, although every candidate's supporters has its excesses, I have never seen such a long, sustained campaign of vitriol on the Democratic side as Hillary's.

[OzarkDem]

40. Really? Clinton wasn't running in 2004

So I think you're wrong.

[Autumn]

46. Ohhh good one

I even voted for Kerry , had no idea Hillary supporters were here then or I would have voted for her.

[beachmom]

75. Please. They are still here, and they were clearly setting the ground for her campaign.

Step 1 was to nonstop TRASH Kerry following his defeat in November, and to fill Democrats with fear. Then the Clintons would say only THEY knew how to win. I mean are you people that naive?

[Autumn]

102. Bull

that is not the truth. Bill Clinton campaign for Kerry after his heart surgery.

[Why Syzygy]

129. BULLSHIT!! He was on BOOK TOUR! Jeeziz.

[lumberjack_jeff]

171. 2005? Whaaa?

Oh, that's right. I remember when Hillary supporters kidnapped the Lindbergh baby too. Those jerks!

Is it safe to say that you think that Lex Luthor, Ming the Merciless, Dr No and their forces of evil joined up with the Leigon of Super-Villans to form the Hillary for president campaign?

If not, then how do you hold the HRC campaign culpable for stuff that happened 3 years ago?

[OzarkDem]

39. Praise for your effort

but don't expect much from the Obama crowd. Their leader has brainwashed them well.

On edit: note that most of the Obama "supporters" are new to DU, the rest seem to follow like sheep.

[DefenseLawyer]

41. You madam, or sir, nearly singlehandedly destroy the OP's premise on a daily basis. n/t

[casus belli]

44. Is "ignored" still at it?

I see this chap around quite a bit. :)

[Sulawesi]

60. Me too, and I liked your observations below...

Many of those on my ignore list are tombstoned or otherwise have accounts suspended. I suppose there might be similar ignore lists on the other side as well, and I would not have had the opportunity to see that.

[TahitiNut]

45. Again with the smears and sneers. Hail Harriett?

:eyes:

[AngryOldDem]

50. Oh, please. nt

[yourguide]

69. OP, please pay special attention to the post I just repsonded to.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

71. You are one of the reasons I

have nightmares.

I am so tired of your tireless crap about my lack of brains I could scream.

[sniffa]

86. I think I know whom everyone is responding to

You should join me in putting her on ignore - you'll be spared the lunatic rantings. :hi:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

87. But then I would miss out

on all the love coming from the tireless, wonderful supporters of Hillary. :pals:

[sniffa]

89. Well, she's not long for this board

But, if anyone wants to be spared the insane rantings of a lunatic, dead-ender for at least week, then just plonk.

:hi:

[Elspeth]

114. You know you'll miss me, sniffa.

:)

[Doityourself]

73. You have got to be kidding....I see nothing but divisive posts from you.

[last_texas_dem]

101. Yeah, and all of the "old-timers" on DU are Clinton supporters?

You are the exception, and not the rule. Not that there's anything wrong with that at all; I just don't understand where you're coming from acting as if Obama supporters are all a bunch of newbies or (by implication) the majority of people that have been posting on here for a long time support Clinton.

[uppityperson]

124. You are a good example of what the OP is talking about.

Anyone who believes different from you is brainwashed or a sheep. Huh.

[Barrymores Ghost]

204. Wow, you're not just a raving, lying lunatic, you've just single-handedly debunked the OP!

I doubt that was your intention -- but when one has come completely unhinged such as you have, I guess cause-and-effect kinda gets lost in all of that bile, eh?

Congrats, Harriet!!

[Hola]

42. It's not about Hillary

There is no problem with Hillary staying in till the end (i.e: Tomorrow). The problem is the way she has managed her campaign and the continuing false and misleading claims her campaign makes. Yes it's politics and it's hardball, but save that kind of stuff for the GOP.

[AngryOldDem]

49. I have to agree, with this addition.

Plus, if she had a plausible case that she could win the nomination through the delegate count, that would also be a different story. There is no point in taking this any further. That's called making a spectacle of oneself and will only be devisive. That is what angers a lot of us who are not Hillary supporters -- we've already spent enough time on this infighting. That's not to say that all of this is the Clinton campaign's fault. It isn't. But we must now come together as a united party going into Denver and beyond.

It's her right to take this as far as she can. But at some point you have to begin considering the good of the whole, not the desires of a few.

[casus belli]

43. You'd see it differently if you were on the other side

Believe me, what you have seen as mostly civil discourse from the Hillary side, has been anything but if you're an Obama supporter. I'm not an apologist for those who support Obama who have stepped over the line. But, I can assure you, it hasn't been a lopsided ordeal. I think proof of that can be found in the 40-50 Hillary supporters I have ignored who have inevitably been tombstoned for stepping over the line one too many times.

If it's any consolation, I'm sorry that people have been rude to you.

[Sulawesi]

57. Good post...

[emilyg]

47. k/r

[DeschutesRiver]

54. It has never been about her right to fight to the end

Never. It about her character and her decision to attack in the way she does. And all that is happening is that some supporters of Obama are giving back the same treatment, usually not as vitrolic, but sometimes, yes.

But it is the same stuff. It was going on back when Obama had no chance, just like now when Hillary has no chance. And that is the how politics are played, so if a candidate and her supporters believe she is strong enough to run a country in a global context, for goodness sake, this silly primary hasn't ever been as heated as running the nation will be.

And I was here lurking for the Gore and Kerry messes, and this hasn't even come close to the angst and anger then. What is not so hot is that the current silly season crap is between democratic supporters, but still, from an independant voter's outsider looking in view, Hillary is the bully in the schoolyard; Obama has been more the high road candidate, overall.

From a historical perspective, this will become even more clear in a few years looking back.

[RiverStone]

55. It will NOT stop until we have one nominee

We are almost there.

And BTW, with world peace on the line - I don't begrudge any honest Obama supporter's anger at Hillary for kissing up to Rove and McCain.

Politics is full contact sport! Part of the game...

The good news is all this anger will be refocused, in very short order - to beating McCain.

[harun]

58. This isn't about the "right" of Obama or Hillary. Edwards had every

"right" to still be in the race. But he isn't any more, is he?

[Independent-Voter]

61. I'm all for HRC to go to the end of the Primaries. It's been a pleasure to watch her implode.

[Lerkfish]

63. perceptions differ depending on where you stand

that's my take. I'm surprised Hillary supporters conveniently forgot their own behaviour, but hey whatever. Time to come together.

[AtomicKitten]

64. When she stops, we stop.

[bowens43]

66. YOu see the world through hillary colored glasses.....

Poor , pitiful hillary and her supporters.....victims all......

LOL

[shaniqua6392]

67. She does have every right to fight until the very end.

This process has been a very good thing for the Democratic Party as a whole. Both of the Clinton's will come forward to support Obama because they have always been good Democrats. The Clinton's have always been good fund raisers and supporters of many Democratic candidates over many years. I will never forget that. Obama supporters just want this to be over so bad that they have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at her. She can not say or do anything right in their minds. Personally, I don't care which one of them wins this thing. I just want a Dem in the White House and to increase our majority in the House and Senate by such a huge margin that we can really get stuff done regarding the Iraq occupation and the Supreme Court, etc. I hope we can just let her bow out with dignity. It has to be incredibly heart wrenching for her and her supporters. I hope Obama supporters will also treat her and her supporters with dignity, empathy and compassion. I know I will. Thanks for your great post. I agree wholeheartedly.

[Swamp Rat]

68. In the last 3 months, only one Obama supporter attacked me.

I think the only groups who did not attack me personally and my candidate, Dennis Kucinich, were Edwards, Richardson and Dodd supporters. There is one group, however, who have been downright vicious and deceitful. I hesitate to blame Hillary supporters though, because I am certain some of them are not even Democrats or supporters of the party, or Hillary, and others are too emotionally invested in their candidate to communicate effectively at this time. Some I consider friends, even though we have recently had heated disagreements.

However, there are a few posters who are not what they claim to be, as per their actions (behaviour and words spoken here). To them I give no quarter.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

72. You may want to take a look

at some of the replies on this thread from your friendly Hillary supporters.

They are really the downtrodden.

Maybe you haven't seen the same boards I've seen for the last year.

You have made some outrageous allegations and really the evidence is not in your favor. Yes, I have seen Obama people being jack asses. BUT please don't tell me that the Hillary supporters have just walked away... No way. They are tossing the same poop as the rest of them...

[blm]

76. You never bothered to be pissed at TeamClinton who made SURE Kerry couldn't avoid conceding

by making certain for the four years after 2000s theft that there would be no securing of the election process in crucial states like Ohio - no strengthening those states' party infrastructures that had been collapsed years earlier.

Carville even sabotaged Ohio Dem voters on election night to make sure Kerry would not have access to evidence he needed.

And you want to stauy pissed at Kerry for the sabotage perpetrated against him for four focking years by the Clinton people working only to protect Hillary2008?

You don't know Clintons at all. THEY made sure Dem voters would be disenfranchised, and they let it happen for years earlier - you think they didn't KNOW Florida was being set up to be stolen in 2000? They need Bushes in office as much as Bushes need Clintons following them to protect their secrecy and privilege.

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/


http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

Wake up to who the Clintons REALLY fight for - and it sure as hell ain't Dem issues and Dem voters.

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[Elspeth]

78. AMEN. But some of them are not gracious, oldtime dfl_er.

And I doubt they have the ability to be so. Fortunately there are others that are, and it is up to the more gracious Obama supporters to clamp down on their ill-tempered brothers and sisters.

[psychopomp]

79. I guess you missed the "cult" smear that was the parlance of HRC supporters

for at least a month.

I could go on, but why bother. Enough names have been called and it is over now.

You are wrong, though; the majority of TS'd trolls and disrupters seem to be those purporting to be for Sen. Clinton.

I have seen a lot of things in the seven years I have used this site but never have I seen the number of obvious trolls posting as Democrats as I have with the Clinton campaign.

[Danger Mouse]

82. To be fair, a lot of those 'obvious trolls' were sockpuppets and likely Freeper disruptors.

[Danger Mouse]

81. Well, I've been saying this for awhile now. It's a matter of numbers.

Obama supporters on DU far outnumber Clinton supporters. The ratio of assholes to non-assholes is about the same, but since the Obama supporters are so much more numerous, it seems like they are 'worse.'
I wouldn't say they are 'worse'...there are just more of them.
That being said, there sure are some assholes on DU.

[RichardRay]

83. Kudos to the OP; and would a bunch of you please take it outside?

I don't believe that 97% of you give a rat's ass in a blender about the policies or values of either candidate, all you want to do is score points off the 'other side'.

Please either find a way to behave constructively or take it someplace else, we're tryhing to work, here.

[FrenchieCat]

84. Well you have a right to your view, but as an Obama supporter,

I beg to differ. The example that I will cite is the Hillary supporter getting play today all over the news. Obama could have had his supporters act as wild and wooly, but instead request that we register voters and not show up to protest. No buses were organized, etc.....

[RichardRay]

85. I agree with that feeling FC, but here's where I differ...

I try (with varying degrees of success :-) to filter what I say and do through the test of how much it contributes to the goal of getting Barack Obama elected President of the United States. I rarely find a 'go for the jugular' attack to aid in that pursuit. I do get angry sometimes and do post some snarky comments, but I usually find that I've embarrassed myself when I read them later.

[Elspeth]

92. "Go jugular" attacks only go back on the person who perpetrates them

The better your background, the less you should have a need for those.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. As an EDWARDS supporter I saw it coming EQUALLY from both sides

once we have a nominee, hopefully tomorrow, read what Skinner has to say about this

"At some point between now and the Democratic convention in August, one of the two remaining Democratic front-runners will drop out of the race, and the remaining candidate will become the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee. When we have a presumptive nominee, the time for fighting on DU will come to an end. The squabbling will not drag on until the "official" nomination at the convention in August. The transition to general election mode begins when we have a presumptive nominee. And we have no doubt that the vast majority of our members -- regardless of which candidate you support in the primaries -- will be glad to move forward and support the nominee.

We understand that not everyone will be prepared to immediately put the primaries behind us. There will be some jerks on the winning side who insist on gloating. And there will be some sore losers on the other side who will want to keep attacking the nominee. Once we have a presumptive nominee, those people will have one week to get it out of their systems. We believe that a one-week transitional period is more than fair for those of you who cannot switch gears easily or quickly. After this week-long adjustment period, we're done."

Oh and my opinion... it has to stop from BOTH sides

[JustAnotherGen]

91. nadin

Right there with you. Edwards supporter who has seen it coming from both sides. ;-)

[Douglas Carpenter]

90. I have found the Obama supporters louder and the Clinton supporters more delusional

At least that's my take on as some who only been an Obama supporter for about two weeks when it became clear that he was the inevitable nominee.

It might be the case of someone getting frustrated with a deaf person by shouting loud.

But I would have to agree that shouting at a deaf person does not help them hear - it only makes the situation uglier.

[Bluenorthwest]

96. it took me some time...

but I voted for Obama and will be voting for delegates to send to Denver this weekend. The people who helped win my vote for Obama were real people, here in my town, in my State. Had I given any value to the DU mood, there is no way in hell I'd have voted for him. Obama's campaign says it is a movement. A movement is not just the leader but the entire group of people. So one can not just vote for Obama, but for his movement, and as it has been represented thus far on DU, I'd want nothing to do with such a movement.
On the ground it was a different matter. Obama and his wife and his supporters and surrogates were all postive and gracious. So were the Hillary people. Two fine campaigns when you saw them instead of hearing about them from G.E. and calling that reality. The people who lined up for Obama are my political network, the people I want to be on the floor in Denver are Obama people. I voted for the supporters as much as for the candidate. It is politics. Affinities and such. I did not actually like Obama best, but most of the people I respect and allign with did, and that is good with me. I liked Dennis best.
But, hey, Obama backers, if the idea is to win, then check all ego, and do it now. We are uniting as a Party now, and I for one will not be standing for any crapola that hinders our sucess as a Party in November. That means that right now, winners need to start acting like winners, start jumping some nets and shaking some hands- 16 or 17 million Democrats voted for Hillary Clinton. I want each of them to vote for Barack Obama, and I certainly don't want to see voters alienated by other Democrats. As a Party, we are too willing to let our own die on the vine. We complain about being weak in the Senate while eating Senators for breakfast. We complain about losing while shouting 'we don't need your vote!'.
It is not about you or me, or Barack or Hilllary. It is about November, the White House, the Hill, and the downtickt across the nation.
Myself, I always say to everyone, welcome, with great respect and with great love I welcome all of you with all of my heart. It does not mean you were not welcome before, it means welcome to this moment, our only moment. This timeless moment.
So easy to dish out the vitriol banquet, so difficult to extend the hand of partnership. Show us all how that non partisan out reach is going to heal the Congress, by healing the rifts in the Party. I've read much here on DU about the Obama camps ability to make the bad guys do the right thing. Seems it would be easy to get the other half of the Party on your side. The time to start is now.

[billyoc]

99. Guilty as charged, although I'm more of a Clinton detractor than an Obama supporter.

I've noticed that the true Obama supporters are much more civil than I. :hi:

[Julius Civitatus]

103. Right on! - K&R

I've been reading D.U. since 2002 or so, and only registered to post in 2004. Unlike previous primaries or elections, there's been a lot of nastiness and bullying in DU in the last few months. It is troublesome if this is an indication of what's going on in the party. This needs to stop.

[mudesi]

105. Hillary Clinton has actively undermined the nominee for 2 months now

And if she doesn't drop out after tomorrow, will continue to ensure than John McCain wins the presidency.

She is a Republican at worst, a DINO at best.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It is not up to the rest of us to play nice. Hillary Clinton is responsible for this divide in the Democratic party. She declared war on the Democratic party, she pandered to racists, she insulted the liberal base, she decided to throw the kitchen sink, she refused to apologize for her Iraq war vote, she threatened to obliterate Iran, she invoked assassination.

I'm sick of all these calls for unity from people who are not interested in unity. It's not up to the winner to unify the party. It's up the loser to accept defeat.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

106. "We need to be united as never before if we're going to win the White House in the fall."

Hey, great point! TELL "YOUR GIRL" TO STEP DOWN SO WE CAN TAKE ON JOHN MCCAIN THEN!

Hillary is the one destroying this party.

Others, and myself, are completely fed up with her attempts to tear us asunder for the benefit of John McCain and the Republicans.

[Pushed To The Left]

110. I have never bashed Hillary Clinton or her supporters. The only people I've bashed here are the

supporters of EITHER candidate who won't vote for the nominee in November over a primary grudge.

[lojasmo]

111. Another DFLer here. Your premise is pablum.

A vast majority of the crap spewed here is done so by Clinton supporters.

[Elspeth]

118. I beg to differ

...

[lojasmo]

132. You're one to talk.

You say roe is going to be used as a bludgeon, and there are 'other options' besides voting for Obama. Your opinion is questionable.

[Skittles]

133. wrong

I dislike both candidates and the overwhelming bashing was done against both Hillary AND Bill Clinton

[Stop Cornyn]

112. As an Obama supporter I fully agree that the Obama supporters have been unquestionably the shittiest

but that criticism is applicable to only a fraction (a big mouthed faction, but a small fraction) of the Obama supporters here.

[Skittles]

134. the circle-jerkers have completely dominated DU

I have seen better behavior on the freak republic; they have made a DISGRACE of DU

[EstimatedProphet]

150. Good point. It may be a small fraction, but it is an extremely loud, rude one.

[lumberjack_jeff]

177. Reasonable people can disagree on the exact value of that fraction

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6224005

I notice that there are an awful lot of posters who contributed to the above thread. And that is only the subset of posters who are both shitty and completely juvenile.

[question everything]

116. Thank you. What a difference between a post that earned a recommendation

and all the other garbage where the Obama supporters demand that their post, trashing Clinton, again, be recommended.

This, of course, is why so many Hillary supporters have been considering staying home or even voting for McCain. Not so much because they do not trust Obama, but because the way his supporters, but not Obama himself, have treated the Clinton supporters the way... the judiciary committee treated Anita Hill back in 1992.

Many Hillary supporters are women who fought their right for equal treatment in the workplace and in the business word and realize how things have not progressed much. And the derision and contempt by so many Obama supporters just send these women back 30 years.

Yes, there are many women who come and proclaim their support for Obama and their hatred - why the hate, by the way? - for Clinton. This is their right. But not to tell other voters how they should feel. And if many women - most of them older and in the lower income level - feel slighted, then no one can tell them that they should not.

[Seabiscuit]

143. Self-delete

[PretzelWarrior]

119. UMMMM...I've been here 5 years and donating

and you'd be wrong. let's not call each other out anymore. It's not a winning strategy here at DU or in general.

[Brundle_Fly]

120. it got pretty nasty last primary

just didn't go this long.

I think we mostly got sick of the irresponsible mathematics of fanatical hillary supporters, who called us sexist, cultists.

[still_one]

122. At other times during this campaign the Clinton supporters were equally vitriol and bullying

to say that one was "better" or worse than the other is just incorrect

Sure, right now mostly the Obama supporters are the ones because it appears he has the numbers on his side, but at other times during this campaign the Clinton supporters were rubbing it in when the situation appeared reversed

I am not in disagreement with you essential message, but just to clarify my observation that I have seen it pretty disgusting on both sides

[Eurobabe]

125. Sorry you weren't around to enjoy the 2003 primary

it was just as ugly. Although I do agree somewhat, this primary has been HORRENDOUS. :banghead:

I can't WAIT until it is over tomorrow.

[Why Syzygy]

128. No. I think all the fucking calls for UNITY are DIVISIVE. We will get over it when we get over it.

[tekisui]

135. It is time to come together.

A lot of excitement and passion opened the door for rudeness, and vitriol.

Wounds can heal, with time a care. Here is to a United Democratic Party that will lead America away from the NeoConAgenda!

The Progressives are the True Patriots!

[papapi]

136. Ho hum.

[tomp]

137. fighting over scraps.

kucinich supporter here. i think you're all a bunch of jerks for not voting for dennis. both sides appear to me to be childish and fanatical over piss poor candidates. i can hold my nose and vote d, but it makes me sick that we could have had kucincich and you clowns are all wrapped up in your egos and stupid party politics.

both camps ought to be ashamed. but, of course, they won't be.

[LWolf]

138. You mean, stuff like this, for example?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6224005

[lumberjack_jeff]

176. Great thread. It's like free association for assholes.

It's like collective Tourettes.

"Hey Kids! Those kids over there are a icky, but there's too many of 'em for us to go beat up. Let's think of some bad names for them! I'll start; How about Poopyheads?"

[shayes51]

139. Thanks

Good post.

[Seabiscuit]

144. FINALLY! A pro-Obama post that makes sense and has some integrity.

A very rare phenomenon around here during the past 6 months.

K&R!

[ChiciB1]

193. I See You STILL Feel As I Do... It's JOHNNY! What A Shame That

AMERICA MISSED A GREAT CHANCE!! But then again... it might be for the best because the Democratic Nominee is going to be fighting off the DOGS, and has a MONUMENTAL MESS to clean up! And THAT person will be VILIFIED should they not perform and make substantial gains to BRING AMERICA to a once GREAT Nation!

[cboy4]

145. Oh no you d'int

LOL. :thumbsup:

[NJmaverick]

146. blah blah blah

sore loser

[EstimatedProphet]

149. Hear hear

Again I'll say I don't have a dog in this fight. My guy dropped out a long time ago. Being neutral maybe puts me in a position to see what is going on on DU. Then again, being insulted and called stupid by a loudmouth simply because I dared ask a question - not argued a point, mind you, but ASKED A QUESTION - about a point she was making leads me to believe that there is an Obama cult here, and not just supporters.

[NoFederales]

153. Premature--it remains to be seen if HRC is committed to a Democratic win in

the GE. I do not believe that HRC intends a commensal relationship with Obama.

NoFederales

[Andrea]

154. K & R

There you go, lay it out on the table. It's true, I've never seen such offensive behavior on a continuous basis. Sure, there have always been obnoxious posters or obnoxious posts here and there, but nothing like this.

Furthermore, I am a supporter of neither Obama nor Clinton (obligatory affirmation: I WILL vote for the nominee in November), but I have NEVER been attacked by a Clinton supporter. I have been attacked by Obama supporters repeatedly and viciously.

As a student of behavioral sciences, I find it interesting to wonder about how this phenomenon came to be. As a human being with ethics and values, I have to say that no matter what the cause, each and every one of us has the ability to choose how we interact with others and none of this was necessary. It should have never been allowed to go on, it did your candidate great disservice, it resulted in the threat of many to leave the party or vote for McCain, and it greatly diminished my respect for many people here.

[frickaline]

157. Well said, K&R

[Cathryn]

158. You have to understand...

The only reason many of us have been upset is because of some Hillary supporters coming down hard on Obama and making arguments that his win isn't legitimate.
We have defended him when it was necessary. Not all of us have been mean and dirty. It's been disheartening because she's been playing the same games as W. Many of us held her in high regard even though she wasn't our first choice as nominee. But the lies, division and picking and choosing which contests she'll recognize have been stomach-churning and changed many people's opinion of her, including my own. It's been hard and all of us here know that. We're slowing coming together.

There's nothing more unifying than fighting against a common enemy and we will soon be doing that. I think it'll take care of itself and anyone who wants to vote for McBush can go ahead and do so because they're not real Democrats.

[ExPatLeftist]

160. I would argue that your central premise that Obama supporters have been worse

is colored by the fact that you were a Hillary supporter and on the receiving end of that bile.

My experience has been exactly the opposite.

As there are no unbiased sources or stat analyses on the posts here, I would call those two different opions based on purely subjective experience, and therefore a wash.



I agree that unity is key now, and that posters on BOTH sides need to stop it. And I would also point out that all posters speak only for themselves, so I hope people will also try to refrain from saying, "You guys need to..." or blaming the plurality for the acts of individuals. I hope that all individuals will stop the name-calling and broadbrushing, but I am not holding my breath.

[Phred42]

161. You have to be capable of ignoring one hellofa lot to continue to Whine for the Clintons

It was hers to loose - and she did.

And she lost it by making Faustian Deals with Mellon, Murdock and myriad lobbyists
and conducting a ROVIAN style campaign - not to mention NOT having a plan for after Super Tuesday because deluded herself into thining she was entitled.

No regrets, tears or excuses for the Clinton's at this point

[Tarc]

164. No flames at all; DU's Obama contingent have been atrocious

It is pretty sad when people consider jumping the party ship just because of the vitriol of a gaggle of internet losers. But the fact that many are considering such a thing speaks to the depravity of Obama's online faction. They have done more harm than good.

[ExPatLeftist]

191. No, I would say it speaks a lot more to the illogicality of those making the threats

Voting (or even leaving the party) based on some things said by nameless and faceless keyboard warriors on the Internet rather than voting based on the merits of the candidates themselves is one of the most illogical and immature "stands" that I can imagine anyone taking in any political process.

[dave123williams]

167. Obama's the guy. Get on board!

What in the world makes you think Obama won't fight to the end? He's cleaned Hillary's clock pretty good. What do you think he's going to do to McCain?

[MasonJar]

168. Thanks for the effort, oldtime, but as you no doubt noticed, it fell on many

deaf ears.

[oldtime dfl_er]

219. No kidding

and it illustrates my point, only in the wrong way.
:shrug:

[odelisk8]

174. Why can't we all just get along?

Well, it's called Politics. It's a place for WARRIORS. If you have a political enemy, in your party, or out of it, then you try to destroy them...Hillary did it to Obama and Obama did it to Hillary...I find all this whining about it on this board quite amusing...it's just politics...

that said, when one candidate was a cheerleader for an ILLEGAL war and one said it was a bad idea...well, it's hard not to see why the people on the side AGAINST it find it difficult to swallow the arguments of the people on the side FOR it...

[Gman]

182. Judging by the responses here from Obama surrogates

they feel they've done nothing wrong and it's the Hillary supporters that are to blame. This just reinforces why I really don't care to associate in any way with the Obama campaign as I can't lower myself to that low class of people.

[ExPatLeftist]

187. How long will it take you to learn that people are individuals

and that a few posts do not represent "Obama supporters" any more than they would represent "brown-eyed people" if all those people posting shared that trait? Look at your post and replace the words "Obama campaign" with any other group of people and you will see the same ignorant thinking patterns that motivate racists. Do not twist my words and say that I called you racist, I am saying that judging any group by your own anecdotal observations of a few individuals is absurd, illogical and immature.

"I can't lower myself to that low class of people"... Think about what you are saying here... Even your broad-brushed and prejudicial fallacy aside, I do not think that your post exhibited the slightest amount of class.

[Time for change]

184. I have 3 problems with what you're saying here

First, you lump all Obama supporters together, as if we're all the same. Undoubtedly, some Obama supporters, just like some supporters of any candidate, match the description you provide here. But to lump us all together like that is the kind of stereotyping that supposedly is discouraged at DU.

Secondly, notwithstanding your scathing indictment of Obama supporters, you provide not a single example to give us an indication of what kind of behavior it is that you find so abhorrent.

And thirdly, regarding your statement that "Hillary has every right to fight this battle to the end ... Hillary has every right to do what she's doing" -- Yes, she has the right to fight the battle to the end. That is not what most Obama supporters object to. What we most object to is her implication that Florida and Michigan votes were stolen from her, when in fact the Democratic Party of Florida and Michigan willfully disobeyed the rules with the full understanding that their votes would not count if they did that, and Hillary initially agreed to those rules, until it became apparent that she needed delegates obtained through those illegal elections in order to have any chance of winning the nomination. That was rank hypocrisy. So, if you're saying that she has every right to be a hypocrite, then fine, yes she has a right to be a hypocrite. But we have a right to call her on it. Also, that hypocrisy is not benign. By dishonestly giving the impression that Obama is stealing votes from her, she hurts the chances of the Democratic Party prevailing in November. She is putting her personal ambtion way ahead of the good of the Party and the good of her country. Yes, she has the right to do that, but don't expect us to sit quietly by and accept it.

[Straight Shooter]

185. Too late. The damage is done. n/t

[ExPatLeftist]

189. Who will you be voting for in the GE? n/t

[Straight Shooter]

205. Well, I damn sure won't be voting for McSame!!

:D

[ExPatLeftist]

206. Good to hear!

What wrongs have been committed against you that cause it to be "too late" to mend fences?

[Straight Shooter]

210. If you get yourself a star, you can search back a few months on the forums.

The diatribes against Hillary Clinton are beyond the pale. I have online friends here, too, and the insults heaped upon them are what I took personally, not anything said against me.

It isn't just on DU, it's on Crooks & Liars, talkingpointsmemo, dailykos, et cetera. All the old familiar places I used to visit in order to read civil discourse are now absolutely distasteful because people. will. not. stop. bashing. Hillary. Clinton. The only reason I remain on DU for a few more days is a show of solidarity with fellow Clinton supporters.

This is the first political campaign where in the GE I will not put up a sign, hand out flyers, make phone calls, or canvass. I didn't even like Kerry, but I campaigned for him because I truly believed he would be a very good president, dull but competent. This year, I have no confidence. It's the biggest mess anyone could possibly be taking on, and yet the best candidates (Dodd, Biden) were weeded out because the media wanted a horse race and the people wanted a sports metaphor. Gawd, what a travesty.

[ExPatLeftist]

213. Yes, I understand that it may be too late

to unite with those specific individuals that said things that offended you, but you cannot hold ALL Obama supporters, and Obama and his campaign responsible for the words of others, can you?

[Straight Shooter]

214. I have problems with Robert Gibbs being on Obama's campaign team, too.

His forte is the destruction of Democrats. Behind the scenes, he's devastating. He's the one responsible for the "Dean morphs into Osama ad" and who knows what else. As Kos said before he became an Obama fan, "Obama reached into the slimiest corners of DC and chose Robert Gibbs to be on his team."

It isn't a question of holding things against people. I have just never cared for Obama, and if Hillary had the same "rock star" campaign style, I would also find her offputting, as well.

Anyway, I've got to get to work around here. Don't worry about my vote. I'm in Oregon, which will be at the very least light blue. It's an Obama state, so my vote or nonvote really doesn't matter. :hi:

[smoogatz]

186. Nice. Call for an end to divisiveness, but first attack Obama supporters!

Always a winning strategy. Which part should we take seriously, if any?

[ChiciB1]

190. No Flame From Me... I TOTALLY Agree!!!!! I Have Supported NEITHER

Clinton or Obama and am STILL conflicted about voting... BUT I for one feel the Obama supporters have been ESPECIALLY out of control!! Is it because they say (the media) most are younger and less restrained, or is it just the want for the FIGHT???

I am one of those "hippie" woman, once considered middle class, who once supported Clinton about 2 years ago, but found her NOT to be the woman I thought she was. As for Obama, I HAVE NO CLUE!!

I rarely post here anymore having been and still am, a very STRONG Edwards supporter and still grieving. Say what you will about Edwards, it matters NOT to me as ANY flame about him will make no difference! What I WILL say about Edward's supporters is that I feel WE were (for the most part) extremely civil at all times.

I too have been a long time DU'er, and paying one, but no longer feel comfortable with how all of this has transpired. It's not only STUPID, but downright mean-spirited. What a shame that Democrats have shown a nastier and most distasteful side, AND to me it seems LONGER than SIX months!
Just MHO!!!

[ExPatLeftist]

195. I have seen absurd bile from both sides.

Of course, no one is unbiased, so there is no real, objective way to tell which side has been "worse". I would estimate, however, that there are quite a few more Obama supporters here than Clinton supporters, so that may play a role in your anecdotal observations.

Regardless, I don't think it matters who was "worse" both because it is simply impossible to prove and also the time is now for unity, and bringing up the past will only peel those scabs off. That's why I couldn't rec this thread, because it tries to divide at the beginning by pointing the finger of "you're worse" before suggesting unity, which to me is a bit ironic.

[Myrina]

196. I've been here pretty much since "The Beginning" and ...

... the '04 anti/pro-Dean & anti/pro-Kerry primary battles were just as ugly; and in all fairness, the HRC supporters on this board weren't Shrinking Violets, either.

That said, I think everyone - on all sides - could benefit from stepping back and taking a deep breath before the Dems hone in on kicking McLame's ass in the General.


:hi:

[SmokingJacket]

197. I hardly ever come here anymore because of it, on both sides.

As an Obama supporter, I've been most stung by the anti-Obama stuff, but I accept that it's been on both sides.

Obama himself has been a freaking paragon of graciousness, which is one reason I like him.

[Lady-Damai]

201. Ok....I will try.....

STARTING WHEN HRC ADMITS DEFEAT!!!!!!!! :D

[JuniperLea]

209. So, you are unable to pull yourself above the gutter

and act like a decent human being until Hillary quits?

Sigh...

Self-control is a human trait, a virtue that is sadly lacking, apparently.

[CadenBlaker]

208. I saw the opposite.

That is ironic. I saw the Hillary people from DAY ONE doing this. In fact, I never had even thought there was an issue until I heard Hillary people on national radio shows like Stephanie Miller and Ed Schultz dogging on Obama and his supporters, saying we were some type of cult.

[RedLetterRev]

212. FWIW

I've been reading a load of blogs for the last five years, sometimes sticking an oar in. Here's one of those times. From the depth and quality of the vitriol purported to come from either Dem candidate's camp, from the "sources" quoted (like LGF and NewsMax) and from the meme that the GOP are trying to push ("the Dems are in chaos" -- my ass), it looks awfully to me like there is a lot of outside shit-stirring going on. Anyone notice how the posts have been declining on nutwing blogs and have been increasing on the left -- with a decided upswing in vitriol and a dearth of facts. Lots of innuendo (oft parroted by the MSM and the nutwing right), but awfully short on facts. Now just which party does that fit?

Safe bet it ain't ours.

I smell Gooper intervention and shitstirring. As a loyal Democrat (as I'm sure most of the high-roaders here are), yes, I have gone through three "preferred" candidates. But by damn I will be voting for a Democrat in the fall. The thought of a "mo-worser-than-Bush", an even more corrupt, lawless, clueless administration coming from Camp McKook gives me nightmares. Any right-thinking, patriotic citizen would wish no more to let that loose on our nation than to hack of his/her own poo-denda with a rusty spoon.

As WJC so aptly put it, (and I'm paraphrasing): we tried it their way 12 years and it didn't work. We tried it our way for 8 and it did work. Now after 6-1/2 years of even more right-wing destruction, it's pretty safe to say that their way doesn't work, QED. We're suffering nationally and internationally from right-wing hubris, ineptitude, outright stupidity and stubbornness. Basta!

The worst Democratic candidate will still be light-years above and beyond the best the GOP have to offer. And the GOP know it.

We know it, too.

Let the hooks just float by.

[themaguffin]

215. Well the opposite was true, regardless civility can begin when (if) she puts down the knife.

[blues90]

216. I agree , I do feel it's a bit too late now for healing the party

Many of the attacks and name calling were so out of line and only displays IMHO just what sort of mentality many Obama supporters have.

Now after all of the endless Hillary bashing and attacks on Hillary supporters , many who have left this forum because of this, I would not believe one Obama supporter if they now started to say anything good about Hillary.

This is something that people should have thought about well before they went off with their blasting mouths.

They have made Hillary look like she is not even part of the Dem party but from the repub party from hell.

Every single so called progressive radio show has piled on Hillary and allowed only Obama callers to rave about Obama and trash Hillary.

I can't even listen to these shows any more or the callers who have all the talking points but not one original thought of their own.

If what it takes is to trash one candidate to build up the other then we have nothing.