Obama - "I'm against prison for non-violent drug offenders"

[cbc5g]

"It (prison) doesn't help them, it gives them a higher degree in criminality". Hes for treatment instead. That makes me happy. It's disgusting that so many hundreds of thousands of people are screwed over because of non violent drug offenses.


*Heard from the live streaming in Michigan
http://www.wxyz.com/content/video/stream.aspx

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

Hasn't Britain done that for years?

And then for a while they criminalized it and found it made things worse, not better. Treatment allows folks to quickly integrate back into society. Prison ties up resources and ruins lives.

[Voice for Peace]

123. Watch this, even if you've seen it already - Norway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz9SHy7tQVU

[Doityourself]

1. I agree with him...

[boobooday]

2. Not to mention the huge waste of resources

That would be better spent elsewhere.

This is a winning point, and could sway no small number of libertarians as well.

[TexasObserver]

3. Late Chief Justice Rehnquist, Cindy McCain, and Jeb Bush's daughter agree with him.

Rush Limbaugh, too. And all the other GOPers who go awry with prescription drugs.

Seriously, treatment, not incarceration, is the appropriate action.

[casus belli]

8. Hmmm, now that you mention Cindy...

it's going to be very difficult for McCain to have a stance against Obama on this particular issue, as much as he may want to. Given Cindy's history, he could be shooting himself in the foot to take a hardline stance on drugs.

[papapi]

70. Oh. You mean because Sindy got a free pass?

McLame's dope headed wife is a liability, that's for sure.

[reggie the dog]

72. you comment is mean spirited

please explain to me how it is not stereotyping to insuate that drugs users are not smart????

how is "dope headed" different from "nappy haired"

how is "doper" different from "nigger"

enlighten me....

Do you support pre employment drug screening that shows if people smoked cannabis a month before the test?

if so how is that not discrimination???

HELLO PEOPLE I HAVE AN MA AND CANNOT TAKE 65% OF THE JOBS IN THE USA BECAUSE I SMOKE WEED ON THE WEEKENDS!!!!

The war on drugs is about discrimination.

Persucting people like me is like going after gays, Jews, blacks etc.

Illegal drug users are the last group politically correct people can scapegoat in the USA.


Do you folks realize that in nearly every other country in the world pre employment drug screening does not exist or is limited to police officers expected to enforce the law?????

[Gore1FL]

122. I would argue drug use is a choice

but tend to agree with some of what you are saying in so far as if drug use is an issue of employment, it should and would come out as problematic to the work environment at some point during the employment probation time that most companies have.

Then there are some drugs that don't just affect the user, such as meth, which is a health hazard to those (typically unkowingly) around the place of production.

This is, for the most part, a debate to be had on it's own thread.

In defense of the poster above, Cindy McCain did steal drugs, did break the law, and her husband's position makes this hypocritical.

[reggie the dog]

126. Choice, ok

to play devils advocate

what about people who choose to be Jewish or Muslim by conversion and find themselves discriminated againt??

Just playin devils advocate with you. I know I CHOOSE to smoke grass.

[KSinTX]

187. That falls under the Constitutionally protected freedom

of religious choice. There is not protected freedom of recreational drug use or at least none that I'm aware of.

[reggie the dog]

207. what about the part of the constitution that says

that any rights not specified in the constitution are kept by the states and their citizens. That seems to nullify the FEDERAL drug war and implies that drugs, like fireworks, are a states rights issue.

[KSinTX]

215. So are many *at will* employment rights

You seem to have chosen weed over employment. That, also, is your right but to come after and attempt to equate it with Constitutional protected rights when it boils down to you excercising your inalienable right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" is completely outrageous. That right has been limited by the SCOTUS as,

"Among these inalienable rights, as proclaimed in that great document, is the right of men to pursue their happiness, by which is meant the right to pursue any lawful business or vocation, in any manner not inconsistent with the equal rights of others, which may increase their prosperity or develop their faculties, so as to give to them their highest enjoyment."

This legal construct is contraindicative of your assertion.

[reggie the dog]

227. not the declaration of independence, the constitution

but let's get something clear right away, I have worked since I was 15, only once did I pass a drug test to get a job, I abstained for a month, then I vowed to never again do that so I just worked in some of the 35 percent of companies which do not drug test. Now, after finishing my studies, I have left the USA and live in a country where employers cannot do pre employment drug screening because it is a violation of my private health record, a country where most cops will not even bust people openly smoking in the street and where if you do get busted you risk a visit to a psycologist. I live in a coutnry where workers have much more protection than in the USA, the country in which I have more freedom and more protection than in the USA is none other than France. Here I can smoke on the weekend and do not have to worry about losing my job for it.

Now, let's get to the constitution of the USA
"The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." ninth amendment

10 amendment "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people"

As far as this part ""Among these inalienable rights, as proclaimed in that great document, is the right of men to pursue their happiness, by which is meant the right to pursue any lawful business or vocation, in any manner not inconsistent with the equal rights of others, which may increase their prosperity or develop their faculties, so as to give to them their highest enjoyment."


This legal construct is contraindicative of your assertion."

How is the contraindicative of my assertion? It was legal to grow, sell, possess, and use cannabis when the Declaration of Independence was written. My cannabis use is not inconsistent with the equal rights of others, nor are other peoples use of heroin, alcohol, tobacco, or crack.

note that the actions MAY increse their prosperity or develop their faculties, MAY, not MUST. Playing with ones self does not increase ones prosperity but would you argue that people cannot play with themselves in the privacy of their own homes.

Besides you brought up the Declaration of Indepence, not me.

Explain to me how the rights of growing, possessing, or using cannabis are not covered in the 9th and 10th amendments? The right to use alcohol is covered by the 9th and 10th amendments, in the 1920's, when the goverment for some reason respected the constitution more, they made alcohol illegal by CHANGING THE CONSTITUTION see the 18th amendment, and were only able to relegalize alcohol by changing the constitution again (21st amendment), When FDR made cannabis "illegal" he just put an insanely high tax on it and busted people for not paying the tax at the federal level, state laws, however, were allowed as per the 10th amendment. To this day the state of Alaska recognizes that people have a right to grow, possess, and use cannabis in their own homes.

Now explain to me why my smoking is not covered by the constitution. At best for me it is my right as reserved by the 9th amendment at worst it is a states right issue so states like Alaska can let people grow and use, states like Ohio can let people have 200 grams without risking more than a fine, and states that want to leave it criminal can.

As for pre employment drug screening (not screening to see if someone is high at work) the USA needs worker protection which would prohibit bosses from firing or refusing to hire people based on arbitrary factors not related to work performance. Can you imagine if bosses refused to hire people who ate chocolate in the past month?
Do

[KSinTX]

229. Umm, I'm not sure how long you've been in France

but the Constitution established the three branches of government. That I cite a Supreme Court decision, does not mean it applies solely to the Declaration of Independence. It was a Constitutionally-based reality that this court would rule on cases that determine Constitutionality.

As for the Amendments you cite, cherry-picking them to fit your arguments is your right. I simply refuse to validate it. Alaska has every right to legalize marijuana, if they choose. That doesn't make that right transferrable to Texas. Pre-employment screening in some locales does indeed include an employer's right to deny employment to obese people when they demonstrate it impacts on an employee's ability to perform.

There are too many cases that find in favor of state's rights and equally their ability to decide whether or not it is an "at will" employment state.

I think I'll end with our agreement on this: "at worst it is a states right issue so states like Alaska can let people grow and use, states like Ohio can let people have 200 grams without risking more than a fine, and states that want to leave it criminal can."

Profitez de la journée, mon ami!

[reggie the dog]

231. ummm I'm not sure why you seem so condescending with me

Of course I know about the 3 branches of the US government, WE HAVE THE SAME THREE BRANCHES IN FRANCE! I lived in the USA for 24 years. I simply spoke of the constitution to bring up a point that you s

"I think I'll end with our agreement on this: "at worst it is a states right issue so states like Alaska can let people grow and use, states like Ohio can let people have 200 grams without risking more than a fine, and states that want to leave it criminal can.""

voila, that is all I want anyone to agree with. My "right" to smoke cannabis is either comparable to ones "right" to have fireworks as determined by each state, or is comparable to ones right to have an abortion and thus must be respected by each state.

"Pre-employment screening in some locales does indeed include an employer's right to deny employment to obese people when they demonstrate it impacts on an employee's ability to perform." Would sitting at a desk be something that be too hard for obese people? They are always obese so I could see not letting them be firefighters. But people who smoke cannabis are not always high. I perform fine at work. Since I started working "real" professional jobs I have never gone into work high.

[KSinTX]

242. I am not being condescending, I write as I speak

sometimes to express emotion in text is difficult. Ummmm, for me is a hesitation - to show you I am unsure of the answer, hence unsure of the appropriate response.

[reggie the dog]

243. sorry then

I thought it was snark, my bad.

[KSinTX]

244. No problem!

Having lived in Germany for four years and having visited the former in-laws over in France, I figured you had a fairly tough skin. Loud arguments are sport down that way and between the volume and the hand gestures, well who am I tellin'

Peace

[papapi]

151. Thank you, and she did get a free pass. She was abusing perscription drugs.

[Asgaya Dihi]

178. For some perhaps. For others probably not.

For the casual toker it probably is a choice but it's long been known that with the harder drugs and alcohol in particular some have a genetic inclination toward abuse. A line in the promo video for Law Enforcement Against Prohibition points out that our addiction rate was roughly the same decades ago when we started this mess as it is today. Jack Cole mentions it part way through, it's a worthwhile vid for other reasons as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LayaGk0TMDc

With as much else in culture and otherwise that has changed in the US it's rather odd that some things have stayed almost exactly the same. For some it doesn't seem to be choice so much as the way they are and for them prison is a waste, and so is treatment to a point. If it's their idea to quit they've got a chance but if they don't want to forced treatment is just a waste as well. There we might want to look at the idea of maintenance programs, they've had trial studies with them elsewhere which look pretty good but we can't do them here due to schedule one which makes even medical use illegal. Need to change that I'd think. In basic terms "legal" just means get rid of schedule one and see how we can *regulate it*. It doesn't mean free use, or at least it doesn't have to.

[snooper2]

193. You are supposed to quit smoking a month before the test

I did, passed, and have been in the same job for a decade :smoke: :hi: :smoke:






GOBAMA!

[reggie the dog]

208. you are lucky

that they do not have on going random drug tests like where my dad works.

[snooper2]

219. They do...my mgmt just know who "not" to pick

:)

[reggie the dog]

221. my dad is a union rep

so he has been picked a few times, now he wears a norml "drug tests piss me off" shirt to work.

[pattmarty]

199. I totally agree with you, oh, I'm retired now and don't have to worry about the (Reagan)drug testing

[RaleighNCDUer]

220. Whoa, there. Dope-headed just means a head full of dope. It doesn't

imply stupidity and does not correlate with those other appellations. It's a reference to what people do, not what they are. Just as "booze hound" references those who prefer to drink their drugs.

And you're right, the extent of drug screening is outrageous. It should only apply to those are are in law enforcement (so long as it remains illegal) and in critical jobs where impairment is an issue, like long-haul truckers, pilots, train engineers, where the consequences of impairment could result in serious accident or death - and then, only relating to on-duty impairment. There's no reason to insist on drug testing for office clerks - if they are impaired, their work will reflect it and they'll be fired, and if they are not impaired there's no problem.

[reggie the dog]

228. I can see where you are coming from

but in today's world "doper" or "dope headed" is often used to describe anyone who uses any amount of any illegal drug. There is no distinction between someone who is high all of their waking hours and somone who is high on friday and saturday nights. Having said that, "dope headed" can be taken negatively like "nappy haired". It is all about the context. Sometimes "nappy haired" is not negative at all, as "dope headed" is when used to describe "what a dope headed idea I had when I ordered 2 large pizzas"......

[RaleighNCDUer]

230. Well, c'mon, you've go to admit

ordering two large pizzas for yourself is usually a result of being dope-headed - no matter how you define it.

:smoke:

[reggie the dog]

232. now the important dope headed question

deep dish or flat crust???????

[RaleighNCDUer]

234. Not too particular, but

Veggie, carnivore, or Hawaiian?

[reggie the dog]

235. omnivore?

one veggie, one carnivore??? I never got into the pineapple on pizza bit.

[TahitiNut]

26. Well, they agree ... if it's white people. They have a different 'standard' for blacks.

Their 'standard' of wealth and privilege as a proxy for race is a very thin disguise for pernicious racism.

[Skittles]

168. correct n/t

[walldude]

156. Can't speak for the others but Limbaugh

wanted all "illicit" drug users deported. He does not agree with treatment for drug users, unless they are him. I have personally heard Rush call for the deportation of anyone caught using illegal drugs.

[psychmommy]

217. when prescription drugs are obtained illegally

they are illegal drugs. he is no different than the heroin addict. same thing except maybe he didn't shoot it in his arm. we have drug court and first time offender programs in nj. i will always have a job because of the war on drugs. sad but true.

[DevonRex]

4. That makes me happy, too. Too damn many in prison already.

Surely we can do better as a society than just lock people up.

[jasmine621]

29. Ahhh, that was Bill Clinton's stance also. When he pardoned a few he caught hell! nt

[Why Syzygy]

57. That WAS NOT Bill Clinton's stance.

Incarcerations rose SHARPLY during his administration >>>

[digidigido]

204. Yes, but 88-92 was Iran-Contra when cocaine was imported by Reagan-Bush

and crack was introduced, it was cheap and more the drug of choice

[Danger Mouse]

107. Bullshit.

[pattmarty]

200. Bill Clinton IS/WAS a conservative Democrat. I am/was no fan of his.

[nomorenomore08]

5. Good for Barack! For the record, if you want my view on the subject, just look at my sigline...

nt

[reggie the dog]

114. I will take 3 liberty joints.....and 4 grams of freedom hash please

[Cant trust em]

6. I agree. But I hope he doesn't get killed for being "soft on crime"

This is the right idea, but he might pay a price politically.

[Turn CO Blue]

9. Since Cindy McCain was treated softly for her drug issues, McCain

can hardly attack on this issue without exposing his own wife for getting special treatment.

[hokies4ever]

15. Great point, I forgot about this.

I hope some stupid Republican attacks Obama on this issue without thinking about it. Come on McCain, take the bait. :rofl:

[cbc5g]

10. Obama - "It's not being soft on crime, it's being smart on crime."

Also from today's Michigan event.

[Cant trust em]

12. I think we've found our bumper sticker slogan.

Perfect.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. I don't think so. The American People don't want to spend $40 Billion a year fighting pot smoking.

It's ridiculous. The Voting Public is way more socially libertarian than the conventional wisdom waterheads give them credit for. This is why Terri Schiavo bit the GOP on the ass.

It's like the numbnuts who think that running a ballot initiative against gay marriage in California is a sure-fire vote getter. It is, but not in the way they think. Public opinion has shifted on a lot of these matters in a BIG way.

People are in for a surprise.

[Merlot]

159. Article in LA Times today about gay marriage being good for economy

Seems like gays want to spend big bucks for weddings just like everyone else!

They said the average wedding costs 8K

Save our economy! Vote for Gay Marriage!

[Warren DeMontague]

162. And you know what? Legalized pot would be GREAT for our economy.

It's a bigger industry than wine. The tax revenues would be huge.

[dkf]

175. 8k? That must be an average between a regular wedding and a justice of the peace.

lol.

[Why Syzygy]

59. If people would quit considering it a "crime" and consider it a "health issue",

then they can't use that argument. It can be streamlined into the new health policy. That right there will do more for drug addicts than any freaking incarceration.

[cliffordu]

7. I'll kick this - I got clean and sober in treatment. I would have died

in prison.

Addiction is a MEDICAL problem, and shouldn't be a criminal justice one.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. I'm clean & sober, too, and I agree 100%.

In fact, I'm more convinced than ever that the drug war is a total waste of time.

[tridim]

27. I smoke Cannabis..

and I just want to be able to enjoy it without sealing all my windows and pulling the shades.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. I think it's ridiculous that pot isn't legal, regulated, and taxed.

Beyond ridiculous.

[reggie the dog]

75. You will still have to hide yourself

or be forced into "treatment" which would be someone telling you "drugs are bad mmmkay...."

[tridim]

78. I'm willing to give it some time.

I think we're exactly the kind of people Obama is talking about.

I'm not an addict, I don't drink and I've never used hard drugs. I just like Cannabis as a stress reducer and wish I could share its wonders with friends and neighbors. It's obviously not fair that people can freely drink beer on their back porch while I have to lock myself inside and worry about going to prison.

[cliffordu]

94. Forced treatment is Bullshit.

Legalize, regulate and tax.

[Uncle Joe]

102. I believe they should legalize Marijuana as well but I also believe

this is a first step away from demonizing it.

[reggie the dog]

112. true

but I will not be happy until I can grow my own, either here in France where I live now or back in the USA where I was born and raised. You can grow all you want in Spain and their society hasn't fallen apart. Not to mention that I can go to another state of the European Union and buy cannabis in coffeeshops......their society has fallen apart though, they are pushing for laws to limit the proifts of CEO's in the Netherlands,, gasp;....

[Uncle Joe]

121. One of these days, I plan on visiting Amsterdam, they're pretty advanced and

I would like to partake of their enlightenment.:thumbsup:

Putting CEOs that give them selves obscene pay raises to ridiculous ratios over their employees while simultaneously bankrupting their companies and and screwing over their stock holders in prison seems far more logical to me.

I believe from the 80s to today CEO compensation went from an average of 26 times the average wage of their employees to 300 times, there is no excuse for that I see this as far more harmful to our society than someone smoking a doobie in the privacy of their own home.

[comrade snarky]

139. Amsterdam is a wonderful city

The only problem is the British kids who come over to party and don't know their limits :-)

The Dutch have done it all. They tried to take the world at the point of a sword when they were Vikings then they tried to own it all with the East India company and now they seem to see neither is a good path. They're mostly concerned with living a good fulfilling life, basic happiness and acceptance of the people around you. Though I understand the peer pressure to clean your door stoop and front windows can be quite severe.

We could do a lot worse than imitate the Netherlands policy on "soft" drugs.

[ekwhite]

183. Are we talking about marijuana or harder drugs here?

Forced treatment makes sense for people addicted to hard drugs. Someone who is addicted to cocaine or heroin or methamphetamine needs medical help - forced treatment for them makes sense, IMHO.

Marijuana should be legalized, regulated, and taxed, just like alcohol. The prohibition of marijuana helps no one other than organized crime and the prison-industrial complex.

[RaleighNCDUer]

222. There is an easy way to judge it.

Decriminalize it. If a person then gets into legal problems, and the root cause is the drugs, then treatment is warranted. If a person keeps out of trouble, drugs notwithstanding, then no treatment is called for.

It is not the drugs that are the problem. It is what people do when indulging in drugs that is the problem. Just like with alcohol.

[reggie the dog]

236. all drugs

Cocaine has no physical addiction, the addiction is all in the head.

Anyway treatment rarely works when it is forced. People have to hit their own "rock bottom" and want to change themselves for it to work. Plenty of people are successful while being hard drug addicts. William Burroughs, John Lennon (heroin) I could list more but really we all know that hard drug use doesn't always equal failure, especially when you are not looking to score 24 7 and can concentrate on "life" and get whacked after work/time with the family. Hell Ray Charles got busted a few times but did not quit heroin unitl he had his own personal motivation to do so.

[Warren DeMontague]

99. Just like everyone who drinks isn't an alcoholic, everyone who does drugs isn't an addict.

Seems to me, the answer is to make treatment on demand available for people who are looking for it- and if anyone is going to be "forced" into treatment (which I think is of dubious value) it would be people who commit other crimes related to substance abuse, like driving under the influence, etc.

[Yurovsky]

127. Depends on the drug ...

I haven't known too many casual crack, meth, or heroin users. Weed, X, mushrooms, et al are another matter. But I think we need to really work with folks who get hooked on stimulants. Mandatory inpatient treatment would be better than prison for these folks, but it would need to be long term, and therefore expensive. Of course, it's pretty costly to keep non-violent drug offenders locked up for federally-mandated minimum sentences too. But most of the changes to sentencing during the past 25+ years have had more to do with keeping people of color incarcerated than benefitting society at large.

Bottom line, it's nice to hear a presidential candidate make sense on this issue that has decimated black America. Save prisons for violent criminals who are a menace to law-abiding citizens.

[Warren DeMontague]

130. I would agree with that. Kind of why I think pot should be legal for adults, regulated, and taxed

stuff like meth or heroin is different; the small-l libertarian in me says it's not the government's business what consenting adults want to do with their own bodies, but at the same time I wouldn't want it available at the 7-11.

I think harm reduction, treatment on demand, and (as you allude to) treating them as a health issue and not strictly a law enforcement one is a far more sensible approach than what we do now.

[reggie the dog]

237. I know casual meth users

But the meth/speed powder that people get here in France isn't the same "meth" you folks get cooked up with cleaners and cold pills. Here it is mostly powder or pill form and I know folks who like to do some on the weekend, especially if they are going to an all night rave party, then they crash on Sunday and get ready for work on Monday. I also know people who are productive and use cocaine. I don't know about crack because the people I know just snort some powder perhaps on average once a month.

[walldude]

157. Yeah, when I came back from Amsterdam the issue

of pot being illegal here really hit home. It was amazing not to have to worry about whether or not I had forgotten to leave my stash at home. To be able to go out and get high legally, like all the drinkers out there...

[reggie the dog]

74. I still enjoy getting high

and do not want anyone to TREAT me for it. I NEVER use alcohol and it pisses me off when drinkers want to treat me for what I like to smoke.

[Warren DeMontague]

100. You're preaching to the choir, buddy.

I think pot should be like alcohol; legal for adults, regulated, and taxed.

[reggie the dog]

108. great to hear that.

I sort of got the idea from the Greatful Dead icon.....but there I go sterotyping again.....

[Warren DeMontague]

129. I sure as hell smoked my share of it, back in the day.

I don't have anything against it, just don't do it any more.

[reggie the dog]

209. please tell me you still

listen to the Greatful Dead!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

249. Are you kidding?

God bless the internet: thanks to bittorrent and various highly anal folks who have carefully preserved many years of very crisp SBDs, I can hear 'em better than ever.

:hippie:

[Qutzupalotl]

11. There goes the Wackenhut vote.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. I don't think the Wackenhut vote is going for him, anyway. nt

[tularetom]

13. We only imprison them out of revenge

Although we do spend a ton of money on drug treatment and rehabilitation programs, we still hold onto the puritanical concept that taking drugs is sinful and should be punished not coddled. We still believe that we can get people to quit doing things by threatening them with punishment, (prison, deportation etc) if they don't quit.

[GoesTo11]

38. What's to avenge with non-violent users? Just meanness.

What percentage of people - and politicians - who support jail for pot smoking have smoked it themselves?

[RaleighNCDUer]

223. it's the puritans' vengeance on people having fun. nt

[Rageneau]

14. He USED to be for decrimilizing pot.

But he belonged to a different church back then.

Gotta conform with the status quo if you want the press to like you.

[cbc5g]

18. Not putting non-violent drug offenders in jail seems like decrim to me. n/t

[tridim]

25. He still is, he just doesn't want to use the word "decriminalize"..

Yet.

Along with the amazing Barney Frank, we'll end this bullshit "War on Drug Users" sometime next year.

[Bensthename]

41. Maybe it is something he would consider in his second term...

[Warren DeMontague]

17. He's right.

:kick:

[wvbygod]

20. What bills has he introduced in the Senate to solve this problem?

Got any references to his written rites to right this wrong?

[nomorenomore08]

37. If he had, he probably would've been labeled "soft on crime," and might not have had

the chance to be President that he does now. I admire Barney Frank for having the stones to introduce such a bill himself, but he's not a presidential hopeful, and so doesn't have as much to lose.

Call it cowardice, or whatever you want, but it's the political reality for now.

[cyndensco]

22. No prison for non-violent drug crimes.

Seems like such a no-brainer. Even repubs might embrace it when his team comes out with hard numbers showing imprisonment is fiscally imprudent. Somehow, I doubt they'd embrace the social part of it - gotta hit them with $$.

I love that Obama is coming out against the grain. He was on the correct side of the "gas holiday" and was able to stand out from his rivals. I hope he continues on this route....

Go Obama,

[2rth2pwr]

23. No jail time for drug dealers?

[Occam Bandage]

32. Drug users, not dealers.

[2rth2pwr]

66. Drug offenders.

[Warren DeMontague]

106. So you support letting murderers and rapists out of prison to make room for pot smokers?

You support $40 Billion dollars in taxpayer money to continue to classify 70 million otherwise law abiding Americans who enjoy recreationally smoking pot as "criminals"?

Figures.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

216. NON-VIOLENT drug offenders. I think it's likely he meant "small-time users." -nt

[Warren DeMontague]

35. Depends on the drug. Whatever crazy fuckin' shit the die-hard remaining Hillary supporters are on

is clearly a dangerous, mind-eating substance.

For something like pot, however, which millions of otherwise law-abiding citizens enjoy recreationally, and which what the lion's share of the $40 Billion (not incl. costs of incarceration) "Drug War" budget goes to- it should be legal for adults, regulated, and taxed.

It's absurd that it's not.

[reggie the dog]

76. that would be good

People have to get their drugs somewhere. The more dealing is penalized the more violent those selling the drugs tend to be.

[mikelgb]

24. yay

not to mention it is only certain drugs not made by Pfizer that there is a war on...

drugs with side effects that include "death" are peddled to the people on the teevee day and night... ask your doctor about his drug of choice.

[zonmoy]

28. Simplest solution to that would be to legalize all drugs.

any particular reason he hasn't put in bills to end the drug war at every opportunity.

[berni_mccoy]

31. First step is to decriminalize them.

[zonmoy]

44. might be a first step but any reason that one cant go right to the last step on this.

[RaleighNCDUer]

225. Mostly because we need to undo 70 years of propaganda.

Generations of Americans have been brainwashed to hate certain drugs. It's going to be a slow process turning that around.

[1776Forever]

30. U.S. prison population largest in world

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/3955/us-prison-population-largest-in-world

U.S. prison population largest in world
The Baltimore Sun , June 1, 2003

(snip)

With a record-setting 2 million people now locked up in American jails and prisons, the United States has overtaken Russia and has a higher percentage of its citizens behind bars than any other country.“Why, in the land of the free, should 2 million men, women and children be locked up?” asks Andrew Coyle, director of the International Centre for Prison Studies at the University of London and a leading authority on incarceration.

The latest statistics support that view. The new high of 2,019,234, announced by the Justice Department in April, underscores the extraordinary scale of American imprisonment compared to most of the world.

(snip)

United States imprisons at a far greater rate than developed Western nations and many impoverished and authoritarian countries. On a per capita basis, according to the best available figures, the United States has three times more prisoners than Iran, four times more than Poland, five times more than Tanzania and seven times more than Germany.

Bruce Western, a sociologist at Princeton University, says sentencing policies have had a glaringly disproportionate impact on black men. The Justice Department reports that one in eight black men in their 20s and early 30s were behind bars last year, compared with 1 in 63 white men. The chance of a black man going to prison in his lifetime is one in three, the department says.

For black male high school dropouts, Western says, the numbers are still worse: 41 percent of black dropouts between 22 and 30 were locked up in 1999. “I think this is one of the most important developments in race relations in the last 30 years,” he says.

A major cause is the war on drugs. In 1980, says Marc Mauer, assistant director of the Sentencing Project in Washington, about 40,000 Americans were locked up for drugs-only offenses. Now the number is 450,000, three-fourths of them black or Latino, though drug use is no higher in those groups than among whites.

.............

Let us keep the prisons for those that need to be put there for more violent crimes. :eyes:

[w13rd0]

34. FANTASTIC!

As for him getting hit as "soft on crime", I trust him to be able to frame the reply adequately.

[DefenseLawyer]

36. Come on Barack, I have a mortgage!

Just kidding. I wish more politicians had the courage to take this common sense position.

[barack the house]

39. That's the independent vote in the bag. A lot of independents care about this the most.

[Mike L]

45. Independents don't want to see people smoking crack and meth in the park.

This is another reason BO will lose the GE.

[anonymous171]

47. Independents don't want Hillary anywhere near the whitehouse.

That is why she would have no chance.

[cbc5g]

48. Independents want them getting treatment, not prison

I'm sorry, but sick people don't deserve to be in prison... and if you think so...well i'm just wondering why you are on a progressive website.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

50. Yes, I forgot everybody drinks alcohol outside because it's legal.

:eyes:

[cbc5g]

51. Exactly, these RW fear talking points are total BS

Privacy of your own home and doing it out in public are entirely different things. Jesus.

[frylock]

54. you should lay off the crack and meth..

get some new material while your at it. your "BO will lose the GE" is played.

[Mike L]

60. You have no clue what middle America's Independents want.

This has always been a losing issue and will remain so.

[cbc5g]

62. You say its not a winning issue with independents, can you provide proof?

Show me a poll where a majority of independents support throwing non violent drug offenders in jail instead of getting them treatment.

It's not a central theme to his campaign so even if you are right, I dont think it would hurt him much.

[reggie the dog]

79. I know plenty of independents

who smoke cannabis,take MDMA, LSD, mushrooms, even cocaine sometimes. Drugs are pretty well accepted in the culture I grew up in. It is admitting you use them to older people or "outsiders" that is not. But what do I know I am just a middle class, white 29 year old.

[Mike L]

90. I'm sure you do. But that's not "middle America."

In general, Independents reflect middle America.

[reggie the dog]

93. How am I not "middle America"???

I am white and middle class. I am 29 years old and the people I know who use drugs are in the 15 to 60 range and that is just counting extended family members (I do not hang out with teenagers but I know stoners in my family). We are all working or middle class and white. Some of us have BA's or MA's, some do not. We work, we pay taxes. How are we not "middle America"????

[frylock]

82. i don't think you do either..

otherwise your posts would be full of links to support your opinion that Obama will lose the GE. Sadly, your posts offer no links and zero substance.

Sincerlely,

West Coast Independant.

[Mike L]

89. You missed me linking this.....

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107539/Hillary-Clintons-SwingState-Advantage.aspx

[frylock]

124. yawn..

"Clinton says her primary wins are indicative of general-election results"

just more opinion.

[Mike L]

153. Read further.....

"Clinton's 2008 swing-state victories include Nevada, Pennsylvania, Ohio, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Arkansas, and -- based solely on popular vote (not delegates) -- Florida and Michigan (her swing states total 105 electoral votes). Thus far in May, Gallup has found Clinton leading McCain in these states by six percentage points, 49% to 43%. McCain holds the slight edge over Obama in these states, 46% to 43%. Thus, as of today, Clinton is clearly the stronger Democratic candidate in this cluster of states where she beat Obama in the popular vote."

[RaleighNCDUer]

224. It's a bullshit poll.

There is no way that either candidate will rate as well against the republican candidate while still embroiled in a primary fight. Supporters for either candidate will tell the pollster that they will not support the other candidate, which depresses the margin against the republican.

The Hillary supporters have shown a tendency to be more fanatical than the Obama supporters, so therefore MORE of them will lie about supporting Obama in a Obama/McCain match up, which is why he is supposedly weaker, based on these polls. The truth is, either of them will kick McCain's ass, and by higher margins than these polls suggest.

[Danger Mouse]

110. Share your wisdom with us, oh great and mighty Kreskin!

[sandnsea]

68. news flash, they already are

We already have to do needle patrol before we let the kids play at the park and I live in a very small town. We obviously need to do something different. In Europe, you are left alone about your drugs - unless you are using or dealing in public places. Now doesn't that make a lot more sense?

[reggie the dog]

77. I don't know where you live

but in Chicago it is not uncommon to see people smoking crack or meth at the park, it just depends what neighbourhood you are in. I smoke weed in the park all the time when I lived in Chicago (one joint, no others, if you see someone that looks like an undercover eat it......)

[Hippo_Tron]

96. Bill Clinton was also for treatment instead of prison time

And so is pretty much every other Democrat. The problem is that no reform ever gets through because the "tough on crime" Republican hypocrites don't let it happen.

[Warren DeMontague]

101. Independents think it's fucking ABSURD that we spend $40 BILLION a yr. on a "drug war"

aimed primarily not at crack and meth, but at pot smoking.

"Independents" are far more socially libertarian than your conventional wisdom waterheads give them credit for; this is why Terri Schiavo bit the GOP on the ass. They want government OUT of their bedrooms and bloodstreams.

Sorry, Bub, but if there's one thing this primary season should have proved in abundance, it's that Team Hillary does NOT have their finger on the pulse of this Nation.

[Danger Mouse]

113. Is alcohol consumption in public places legal? Hell no.

If someone is smoking a crack pipe in a park, treat it like catching someone drinking booze. They have laws to deal with that already in place.

[Mike L]

40. He's wrapped up the crack head vote.

and meth heads too.

[cbc5g]

42. Not if they are felons and have been in jail. Which he seeks to stop.

I dont think sticking people who need treatment in jail where drug gangs recruit them is the best thing. Maybe you think prison is great for sick people?

[Mike L]

46. Parents won't go for decriminalizing drugs. em

[sandnsea]

69. Because parents like visiting their kids in jail

Or are you so arrogant as to believe your precious would never become a drug addict?

[Mike L]

87. Jail is a good deterrent to most kids becoming durg addicts........

and trying meth and crack.

[Warren DeMontague]

111. Meth users themselves are the best deterrent to meth use.

Case in point.

[reggie the dog]

119. I beg to differ

It depends on the QUALITY of meth. I personally do not use cocaine or speed becaue I like to unwind, not get wound up, but I have noticed that over here in France meth/speed comes in powder or pill form and is made in phara labs as opposed to having folks cook it up with household cleaners and cold meds. The cleaner the meth, the less bad it is on the bodies of the users. That is why I support legalization and regulation. Now as for the photo...........AHHHHHH MAKE IT STOPPPPPPPPPPAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

[Mike L]

154. Her teeth aren't rotten.

but her brain is.

[reggie the dog]

117. double post

x

[reggie the dog]

118. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

do you really believe that bullshit......ha ha ha


people offer you meth and crack at SCHOOL!!!!


If you are afraid to get busted you just have an incentive to USE YOUR WHOLE STASH BEFORE YOU GO ANYWHERE!

Many of my friends and family members have been busted for drugs over the years. I can honestly say I do not know a single one of them who have quit smoking grass because of the law, not counting those who quit for six months of drug testing for probation of course, because we bought them a bag to celebrate the end of the piss tests.

When I was a kid in the 90's we did not give a damn what the law said. Kids think they are invincible so they think "I wont get caught, not me"....

[frylock]

125. you probably think the D.A.R.E. program actually works

[cbc5g]

Are you crazy? Do you know of the drug gangs in jails that recruit drug addicts?

Jail is the LAST place you want to go. And if you had a loved one that goes to jail for a nonviolent drug offense and not getting treatment that he needed you would not be saying the things you are. Your beliefs are what has led us having the highest incarceration rate in the world AND the highest drug use rate in the world. Treatment works, PRISON DOESNT.

[comrade snarky]

142. Oh my god!

That is one of the funniest things I've ever heard!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Oh wait... durg, sure no one uses durg anymore. Not since the penalties became so severe.

[ExPatLeftist]

198. When I was a kid, it was easier to get pot, acid, meth, etc. easier than booze.

Because booze was legal and regulated whereas underground markets have no age limits.

Anecdotal, yes, but I bet a lot of people would agree.

Based on that, I would say that legalization would be a better deterrent than criminalization.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

218. I haven't seen anyone so brazen in defending such a failed, harmul policy in a LONG time.

No, wait, don't tell me: you're either in drug enforcement or have a relative who is. Either that or the prison industry.

[ekwhite]

252. No it isn't

That didn't stop any of us back in the 60's and I doubt it will stop any youth today. Jail sentences should be reserved for the dealers of meth or crack. They may not be violent, but they are selling people dangerous drugs. Of course, you could make that argument against a few corporations too, but I wouldn't mind them going to jail either.

[reggie the dog]

84. this parent is for LEGALIZING ALL DRUGS

My daughter will be able to get any drug she wants by the time she is in junior high school or high school. Heroin, crack, meth, cannabis, LSD, MDMA, anything. She will be able to get them from people who do not ask kids for ID's and who do not control the purity of what they sell.

Here is a question. Would you prefer that your daughter drank beer until she blacked out and could not remember anything while at a party, or that she smoked cannabis until she laughed her ass off and had an attack of the munchies and went in on a pizza?

No matter how much weed you smoke you cannot black out. I do not hide my smoking from my daughter (though I do not smoke where she gets second hand smoke I will openly break up pot and roll joints in front of her. I also showed her how pretty cannabis flowers looked and smelled starting when she was 2 months old, smell the fruity sativa, now the skunky indica (unlit of course, just smelling the flowers). She frowned for the indica. ) I want my daughter to think that it is completely normal to smoke cannabis an to not drink alcohol or smoke tobacco. I never use alcohol or tobacco so I will show her by example.
I WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE A DAUGHTER WHO LIKES SMOKING CANNABIS THAN A DAUGHTER WHO LIKES DRINKING ALCOHOL!!!!

[Mike L]

85. OK, Bob Marley. em

[reggie the dog]

88. ??????

Are you making fun of one of the world's most well know ambassadors of peace?????

Do you remember the days of slavery????


If you want to win somebody over you got to win them with Jah cause if you win in any other way you gonna fight another war...


Until the color of someones skin is of no more significance than the color of their eyes, there will be war.....

You still did not answer my question.

Would you rather that your little girl drank alcohol till she blacked out or smoked ganja until she had a fit of laughter and ordered a pizza?

[sniffa]

132. *PLONK*

Enough of the lunatic dead-enders.

[Danger Mouse]

143. Ok, David Duke.

[frog92969]

169. I smile for indica

I also have a daughter that I've never hidden it from (also NEVER drink).
Just recently (she's 11) explained to her what it is and had a long talk about the unfair laws and hypocracy in this country. She's very bright (97percentile) and understands the motivations of our oppressive government.

Your post was spot on for me, just wanted to say so.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Mike L]

246. You are a terrible example for your daughter

by openly breaking the law. Odds are that you will regret it one day. I recommend you think of your daughter's future welfare rather than your personal need to get high.

[frog92969]

247. I am thinking of my daughter

More than anything I want her to be an independent thinker.
That includes not having "morality" dictated to her by a corrupt legal system.
I could easily hide my weed and shrooms from her, but I decided when she was born that I wouldn't raise her on lies as was done to me. Decades ago I did every drug out there so from my personal experience I've taught her about each one, and why I stopped and how I was just lucky to get away from some of them. I have a fair sized list of dead friends to point to for examples as well.
I'm literaly obsessed with the safety of my daughter. I'm not teaching her self-destruction, quite the opposite.

If you want to raise your kids to fall in line that's your busines, I chose a different path.

[DUlover2909]

180. If recreational drugs were legal then they would probably be cheaper.

If they were cheaper people would be able to more easily afford them. If they were legalized they would be readily available everywhere. If recreational drugs were just as easy to get as tobacco and alcohol, and possibly even cheaper, then I would imagine that those two industries would suffer a great deal. Their lobby is pretty strong in this country.

I'd like to see what would happen if all recreational drugs were legalized. I don't really know what the overall good or bad consequences would be. I imagine just about every employer would start drug testing like crazy and fire users. They'd probably just make it policy that they run a drug free work force which is their right. It sounds crazy but you have to look at the absurd extremes sometimes to see what is certainly going to happen in at least some cases. Heroin addicts for example would need to fix before work. In some instances they would need to fix in the middle of the day. Should we allow heroin addicts to work in schools or other positions of importance and large responsibility? Where do you draw the line? All drugs legal? What about animal tranquilizers that leave a person totally incapacitated and immobilized for hours? Some drugs are simply too powerful to be removed from the controlled substances list. One grain of pure fentanyl has enough opiate to kill 30 people. Some drugs like fentanyl could be used as poisons. Also, should there be an age limit? Why shouldn't an 18 year old have the same right to drink alcohol as those of us over 21?

I can tell you all a few things from my own personal experiences. I didn't finally grow up and start being a responsible and productive member of society until I quit abusing narcotics entirely, including heavy pot smoking. I wasn't truly happy until I stopped drug abuse. AA-NA and rehab 3 times didn't work at all. I relapsed every time. After 15 months of being behind bars with the worst that society has to offer and hating every minute of it, I decided that I had had enough. It might be costly and it might not work most of the time, but at least in my case it actually did straighten me out. With that said I still don't think I deserved to be locked up for doing nothing more than hurting myself.

[Bluenorthwest]

185. Equating pot

with narcotics is simply innacurate. Narcotic is a word in English, and like most words, has a specific and exact definition. Marijuana is not a narcotic. Even if you hate it, it is still not a narcotic. It sounds to me like you had a problem with narcotics. All the so called 'refromed pot smokers who had problems' are actually drunks or junkies who also smoked some pot, just as they also had a salad, etc.
At the very least, be honest in you words.

[DUlover2909]

188. is "refromed" a word in English with a definition?

And who were you quoting with the little apostrophes? I wasn't being dishonest and I think resonable people can understand the point I was making without parsing my use of the language and implying that I am ignorant and/or dishonest.

[reggie the dog]

212. I agree with you

folks can ABUSE cannabis. You agreed that most drugs should be legal and pointed out that some drugs are so deadly in pure form (nicotine, fetanyol etc. that their sale may need to be restricted. Hell, I ABUSE the internet ... it totally eats up all my tv time....

[reggie the dog]

210. animal tanqualizers

like Ketamine have been legal in the UK for years. Yes people there can legally get stuck on K but cannot smoke joints..... As for fentanyl and poison you bring up an interesting and valid point.

As for heroin would people really need to fix up before work or could they last out the day knowing they had their stash ready to go when they got home. The buddies that I had who got into heroin were fine working so long as they knew they had a stash for after work, but they had to spend so much time going downtown trying to score that they ended up skipping work....

[Warren DeMontague]

109. Bullshit. This CLEAN and SOBER parent thinks the drug war is a FUCKING JOKE.

This parent thinks the government ought to have better things to do than tell consenting adults what they can do with their OWN bodies and bloodstreams.

Someone robs a bank, neglects their kids, drives under the influence? Those are CRIMES and should be prosecuted as such.

But it is stark IDIOCY to spend $40 Billion a year on a drug war aimed primarily at pot smoking- and that's where the lion's share of the money goes- when pot is far and away a safer and less socially harmful drug than either nicotine or alcohol. Pot should be legal, regulated, and taxed. Treat "hard" drugs as a health issue and not a law enforcement one.

What we're doing now is a joke, a boondoggle, and a failure.

[reggie the dog]

81. millions and millions of meth and crack head votes

not to mention tens of millions of cannabis users votes.....Republicans smoke more pot than Democrats too so this will help win over swing voters.


Tell me why it is bad to have the votes of crackheads or methheads???

Is it bad to have alcoholics vote for you????

[Danger Mouse]

104. We have dreadful prison overcrowding largely due to the imprisonment

of nonviolent drug offenders.
What purpose does it serve, and don't give me that 'it keeps kids off drugs' bullshit.
It doesn't. At all.

[sniffa]

131. Ah, now I see where you're coming from

Lunatic dead-ender walking!

Lunatic dead-ender walking!

[Danger Mouse]

145. It's one of those 'law and order' faux-liberals

who laugh when there's a video of somebody getting tased because if the police did it, they certainly deserved it.

[sniffa]

146. Indeed

They finally got plonked. No need to waste time on that lot.

[Danger Mouse]

147. What the hell is somebody like that even doing on DU?

They're liberal about everything EXCEPT jailing non-violent offenders, tasing all suspected criminals, and encouraging police brutality because it's funny?
Makes perfect sense.

[sniffa]

149. I think you answered your own question

They're gone from DU for me though. :D

[JTFrog]

174. Fucking dittoheads repeating RW talking points on a progressive board.

We ordered your pizza. It should be here any day now. Enjoy.

[rug]

43. I'll give him this. He's miles ahead of Clinton on criminal justice issues.

[ellisonz]

49. We only make the violent one's more violent...

[Laughing Mirror]

52. Who could disagree with that?

There has to be untold MILLIONS of non-violent drug users who have been screwed over, not only by their drugs, but by the devastating effect the penal system has had on their lives.

[Why Syzygy]

53. GOOD! He can repair the DAMAGE Bill Clinton caused >>>

[tridim]

83. Wow, that graph makes me sick.

Let's drop that number to zero by the end of 2009. The time is right.

[jonestonesusa]

55. Amen to this!

I've been hoping for more sensible policy for urban development and the drug war. That to me is a subtle difference between Clinton and Obama, and an important one. I do not think that Obama has the willingness to use interdiction and "tough on crime" rhetoric for political points.

Thanks for the post!

[Radical Activist]

56. Who's going to spread the word at Bonnaroo and the festival circuit this year?

:smoke:

[smoogatz]

58. It's so great having an actual sane person on the national political stage.

The thing I like about Obama is the confidence he has that his positions are the right ones. The wingnuts can just shut the fuck up, as far as he's concerned. Love it.

[Why Syzygy]

61. One group will HATE it. Private Prison Lobbies...

http://macc-usa.org/prisoncorps.html

http://www.texasprisonbidness.org/top-private-prison-lobbyists-texas

[FirstLight]

205. That's what I was going to bring up! what about the huge prison industry?

You know, just like the war machine is a big moneymaker for the neocons...so is the industrial prison complex...

As much as I would LOVE to be able to find my weed at the local market, I wonder if we will ever see it happen with the thugs in govt we are dealing with...

FWIW - I think drug testing is unconstitutional, too...and refuse to submit to a drug test, whether I'd show up positive or not...it's MY blod, not a potential employer's. That goes for my DNA too...they can have a sample from me when I'm dead!

[Raksha]

63. Non-violent drug offenders are also a major source of slave labor.

I'm going to call convict labor exactly what it is. Along with ending the bogus "War on Drugs," we need to get rid of the for-profit prisons.

[Scurrilous]

64. K & R

:thumbsup:

[demokatgurrl]

65. Me too. n/t

[galaxy21]

67. Is he trying to get some of Ron Paul's votes?

[reggie the dog]

71. This is a shit position.

I am sorry if I sound crass, but if you want to force me to be treated for my weekend cannabis use then I all have to say is FUCK YOU! LET ME LIVE MY LIFE!

Why waste the effort forcing people into treatment? THIS LEAVES THE ENTIRE PRODUCTION AND SALES ASPECT OF DRUGS IN THE HANDS OF CRIMINALS!!!

HELLO????!!!!!
Users would get forced treatment they do not want or need, and CRIMINAL ORGANIZATIONS WOULD STILL GET RICH IMPORTING AND SELLING DRUGS!!!

Explain to my why Americans can enjoy the right of being a complete alcoholic yet they cannot enjoy being a heroin addict. Why force someone who likes to smoke crack all the time into treatment, yet leave someone who drinks all day free to go about their life.

GIVE DRUG USERS THE SAME RIGHTS AS ALCOHOLICS DAMN IT!

You can LEGALLY drink yourself to the point of blackout and inability to walk EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE, yet you FOR SOME REASON HAVE NO RIGHT TO SPEND YOUR LIFE NODDING ON HEROIN! Fuck, at least the heroin addicts are less likely to beat their family members than the alcoholics. Legal, no hassle, no forced treatment blackouts and vomiting sessions, yet someone who smokes meth can be forced into treatment? Sorry, I do not support any system that makes users of CERTAIN drugs second class citizens.

Again anyone here who wants to force me into rehab because I smoke hash on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday can go fuck themselves. THE VAST MAJORITY OF MDMA, LSD, CANNABIS, AND COCAINE USERS USE ON THE WEEKENDS, HELL NOT EVEN EVERY WEEKEND!!!! WE DO NOT NEED REHAB BECAUSE WE ARE RESPONSABLE AND WE ARE NOT FUCKING UP OUR OWN LIVES!!!!

sorry, as someone who was busted for having 45 grams of flowers and threatened with 12 years in Virginia state prison I get a little bent out of shape about this issue (just to let everyone know I got off on "illegal search and seizure" which is legal code "my lawyer went and played golf with the judge 3 days before the trial, the lawyer made me pay him 10,000 dollars in cash, hmmm any money went into someones golf bag????" what fucking justice, oh well I am white and middle class, so I bought my freedom.......next time I will just bribe the cops outright and save money.

[Mojambo]

73. It's a reasonable first step position.

Look, I (and probably most Duers) agree with you that we should legalize (or decriminalize completely) most drugs. But we're not there yet and it'll be a while before we get there.

In the meantime we shouldn't be feeding a prison industrial complex with nonviolent drug offenders.

Far from ideal, but way better than it is now.

[reggie the dog]

86. Far from ideal, but way better than it is now.

You said it well my friend, Obama's shit position is light years ahead of either the Democratic or Republican parties efforts since FDR criminalized cannabis back in the 30's.

[Danger Mouse]

115. Get over yourself. This is a HUGE step in the right direction for us.

We have to take things one at a time. Real change comes about slowly, if we can just get drug use decriminalized, we'll have won a huge victory.

[reggie the dog]

120. I know I know

but I use drugs and I do not want treatment, I want my freedom. This must be like what many gay people feel like when folks tell them what a great step in the right direction civil unions were as opposed to outright gay marriage.....

[papapi]

155. rtd, I'm completely in line with you on this. But in reality it will be in . . .

...incremental steps. I don't think anybody needs involuntary treatment. It's always a failure. I live with a partner who works in a treatment program and the stories of corruption of the system are really over the top. Children being treated because someone in their household is alcoholic or a drug user. Ridiculous! And the whole DUI program is nothing but a joke. A way for the government to make money off of poor people. Wealthy people get off all the time. So I agree with you, decriminalize drug use and spend the money on educating kids about the negative aspects of drug abuse, alcohol, tobacco, firearms, HIV-AIDS, bigotry, hate etc., etc., etc.

[LTR]

80. Think Rush Limbaugh will attack him on this?

Me thinks not.

:evilgrin:

[reggie the dog]

91. Legalize all drugs and you cut down crime

Seriously, what would gangsters peddle (remember the majority of "foot soldiers" in gangs are in the 12 to 16 age group) were we to legalize drugs and prostitution?

Turf wars, over
high school drop out rates, reduced
less teenagers shot each weekend

purity rated drugs for users, clean needles,

WHO WOULD LOSE???

Oh yeah, gangsters.....

[BklynChick]

92. I really like his position on prison and prisoners in general, very progressive

[DarkTirade]

95. Wait... a politician... wants to DEAL with a problem instead of just covering it up and hoping it

goes away?

That's... that's just... just... unamerican! :P

[Uncle Joe]

97. My respect for Obama just increased.

Thanks for the thread, cbc5g.:thumbsup:

[spoony]

177. Mine too

I'm not sure to what extent a president can effect change like this, but it's a good position nonetheless.

[ToeBot]

98. Oops, there goes the CCPOA vote. nt

[Danger Mouse]

103. That is an EXCELLENT position and would reduce prison overcrowding by HUGE numbers.

SERIOUSLY...I will work my ass off for Obama if he makes that part of his platform. FIX THE BROKEN JUSTICE SYSTEM.

[usregimechange]

105. He is right, drug courts are the way to go for serious drug offenses.

[THUNDER HANDS]

116. what about people with past violent behavior?

who are picked up on new drug arrests? I'd imagine, based on what I've seen, that accounts for a large number of drug arrests.

[Vattel]

128. that is terrific

Obama is looking better all the time. Now if he would just abandon his support for ethanol . . .

[polticalpout]

133. I agree with him, with the exception of drug user Rush Limbaugh, he's dangerous

and should be kept away from the public.

[FloridaJudy]

134. Thank you Senator Obama

I'm starting to like this guy more and more every day.

Now can we finally apologize to Jocelyn Elders?

[polticalpout]

135. I think the idea of "teaching" masturbation is odd

Did she actually mean destigmatize?

[FloridaJudy]

141. I think she meant

That it is medically harmless, and almost universally practiced, and adolescents should be told that. Some people may have moral objections to it - though I can't fathom why myself - but it will not cause you to go blind or grow hair on your palms. If it did, 99% of the male population would need a guide dog and beauty salons would offer palm waxing.

[Warren DeMontague]

158. Finally! A subject even public schools can't make boring!

Seriously, though, I think she meant teaching that it's healthy and normal.

Shit, as much as the religious right and the Vatican may not want you to know it, it's actually GOOD for you:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm

[workinclasszero]

136. Finally a voice of sanity in the longest, most futile american war

The war on drugs. It should be a crime to send any pot smoker to jail, what a waste.

[cbc5g]

137. From the Obama campaign website

http://obama.3cdn.net/98f87f977e34c1d670_501umvuin.pdf


Eliminate Crack/Cocaine Disparity:

The Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 imposes a five-year mandatory
minimum penalty for a first-time trafficking offense involving 5 or more grams of crack cocaine, the weight of less than two sugar packets and yielding between 10 and 50 doses. To get the same 5 year mandatory minimum for powder cocaine, an offender would need to traffic 500 grams of powder, yielding between 2,500 and 5,000 doses. Against the recommendation of the U.S. Sentencing Commission, these mandatory minimums were signed into law again in 1995. Barack Obama believes the disparity between crack and powder-based cocaine is wrong, cannot be justified and should be eliminated. The sentencing disparity has disproportionately filled our prison with young black and Latino drug users – men and women who he will work to rehabilitate so they can become productive and responsible community members. More than 80 percent of crack cocaine defendants in 2006 were African American, and African Americans now serve as much time in prison for drug offenses (58.7 months) as whites do for violent offenses (61.7 months). Republican Senators, like Jeff Sessions from Alabama, have argued that as a matter of law and public policy, the heavy mandatory sentences for crack as compared to cocaine make no sense. As president, Obama will work in a bipartisan way to eliminate these disparities. He will also repeal the mandatory minimum sentence for first-time offenders convicted of simple possession of crack, as crack is the only drug that a non-violent first-time offender can receive a mandatory minimum sentence for possessing.


Reform Mandatory Minimums: There are at least 171 mandatory minimum provisions in federal criminal
statutes. According to the United States Sentencing Commission, in FY 2006, 33,636 counts of conviction carried a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment, affecting 20,737 offenders. Most of these counts of conviction – 82.9 percent – were for drug offenses. Black and Hispanic offenders make up the overwhelming majority of individuals convicted under a mandatory minimum sentence. A RAND study found that mandatory minimum sentences are less effective than discretionary sentencing and drug treatment in reducing drug-related crime, and every leading expert body in criminal justice has opposed the use of mandatory minimum sentences, including the Sentencing Commission, the Judicial Conference, the American Bar Association, and leading criminal justice scholars. Chief Justice Rehnquist observed that “one of the best arguments against any more Mandatory minimums, and perhaps against some of those that we already have, is that they frustrate the careful calibration of sentences.” Justice Kennedy stated that he “can accept neither the necessity nor the wisdom of federal mandatory minimum sentences.” Justice Breyer, one of the architects of the Sentencing Guidelines, noted that “andatory minimum statutes are fundamentally inconsistent with Congress’ simultaneous effort to create a fair, honest, and rational sentencing system through the use of Sentencing Guidelines.” Politicians of both parties have also come out against mandatory minimums. Obama will immediately review these sentences to see where we can be smarter on crime and reduce the ineffective warehousing of non-violent drug offenders.


Drug Courts: There are now drug courts in operation or being planned in all fifty states, the District of Columbia, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, Guam, two Federal Districts, and 121 tribal programs. Existing drug courts have proven successful in dealing with non-violent offenders. These courts offer a mix of treatment and sanctions, in lieu of traditional incarceration. Offenders who participate in these courts and complete their treatment can have charges against them dropped or can plead guilty without receiving prison time. The success of these programs has been dramatic: One New York study found that drug court graduates had a rearrest rate that was on average 29 percent lower than comparable offenders who had not participated in the drug court program. These programs are also far cheaper than incarceration. Currently, the Department of Justice makes grants available to state and local governments to establish drug courts. Barack Obama will replicate these efforts within the federal criminal justice system by signing a law that would authorize federal magistrates to preside over drug courts and federal probation officers to oversee the offenders’ compliance withdrug treatment programs. Obama will ensure that our federal courts and probation offices have adequateresources to deal with this new program.


---------------------

I'm not happy on his going back and forth in support of decriminalizing marijuana and making pot offenses a fine but I think this is the best candidate we've had to help put an end to the destructive policies that put non violent drug offenders in jail instead of giving them treatment (especially if they need it unlike most cannabis users). I also think he has a high chance of approving a medical marijuana bill although i've never heard him address this other than say he will stop raids on medical marijuana patients in those 12 states that have approved it. This is probably the (only?) viable candidate I've seen that is actually addressing the horrible failure of the drug war.

[polichick]

138. I'm certainly with him on that!

[cbc5g]

140. Obama on MMJ

http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/pop/candidateviews.htm#obama


Obama, Barack (D) - Now Pro

Barack Obama, U.S. Senator (D-IL), stated in a Mar. 22, 2008 interview with Gary Nelson, Editorial page editor for the Oregon newspaper Mail Tribune:

"When it comes to medical marijuana, I have more of a practical view than anything else. My attitude is that if it's an issue of doctors prescribing medical marijuana as a treatment for glaucoma or as a cancer treatment, I think that should be appropriate because there really is no difference between that and a doctor prescribing morphine or anything else. I think there are legitimate concerns in not wanting to allow people to grow their own or start setting up mom and pop shops because at that point it becomes fairly difficult to regulate.

I'm not familiar with all the details of the initiative that was passed and what safeguards there were in place, but I think the basic concept that using medical marijuana in the same way, with the same controls as other drugs prescribed by doctors, I think that's entirely appropriate.

I would not punish doctors if it's prescribed in a way that is appropriate. That may require some changes in federal law. I will tell you that...the likelihood of that being real high on my list is not likely. What I'm not going to be doing is using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws on this issue, simply because I want folks to be investigating violent crimes and potential terrorism. We've got a lot of things for our law enforcement officers to deal with."


---

Not the greatest but it's better than anything we've had in the past. As a side note I have Crohn's disease and I rely on marijuana for treatment and unfortunately i'm in a state that hasn't approved it so I have to medicate illegally.

[LordJFT]

144. hopefully this will silence the people who have been complaining that neither candidate will

end the war on drugs.

[cbc5g]

148. I think Obama may be doing election year flopping on this but this video cheered me up

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wQr9ezr8UeA&feature=related

[Raster]

150. Unfortunately, prisons, like warfare is now a business in the US. A big business.

And the "leaders" of this type of business will fight tooth and nail to assure a steady stream of "clients." My little brother works for the federal correctional machine and is 10000% against the prisons-for-profit business. His reason: because it becomes very apparent the goal is not rehabilitation, but maximizing shareholder value, no matter the cost to society.

[quaker bill]

152. Time to start starving

the prison-industrial complex a bit. Sounds good to me, the details will need to be ironed out, but the idea is headed in the right direction.

[AZ Criminal JD]

160. If Obama really believes this he should have done something in Illinois

The vast majority of drug arrests are state crimes. The federal government is not involved in state crimes. When Obama was state senator in Illinois he did nothing on the subject. Now he is running for president he speaks up when he is running for an office that can't doing anything about it.

[girl gone mad]

161. Generations x and y get it.

We grew up with Reagan's failed "War on Drugs".

Hopefully, Boomers will not be too afraid of change.

[Skittles]

167. HEY

some of us Boomers have AWAYS "gotten" it :hi:

[Spiffarino]

163. It's about time

With the largest prison population in the world - bar none - our country would do well to take a hard look at ending mandatory sentencing requirements and taking private enterprise out of the prison system.

[Norrin Radd]

164. kr

[matt007]

165. This is one perfect example of CHANGE

non violent people should not be locked up! They are a massive drain on resources and money. We would make progress on the drugs front and as a society with LESS people clogging our criminal justice system.

[Skittles]

166. Mr. Obama is absolutely correct

good for him for speaking out :thumbsup:

[vaberella]

170. Wow Thanks for this..

It makes me appreciate obama more. I'm sure he's won over the mid-west now. That's where a lot of the non violent drug offenses happen in the farms where people grow marijuana. Had he said this before the W.V. vote he'd probably have won the state.

They wouldn't even need to produce the drug if they could find themesleves some decent work with some good pay.

[reggie the dog]

179. home grown

marijuana is HUGE in rural areas.

[WA98070]

171. A candidate willing to speak the truth to a powerful business lobby.

[frog92969]

172. More common sence from Obama

He looks better all the time.

rec

[raystorm7]

173. Amen! K&R

[skyounkin]

176. I respect this stance

and I am all for it- but I'm sure the rethugs will use issues like this to get congress back into their control after Senator Obama becomes president.

I hope he does it anyway.

[mcollier]

181. The sooner the better

The justice system has been FUBAR for so long.

[ekwhite]

182. I agree with him 100% on this one

There is absolutely no point in filling our prisons with non-violent drug offenders. It makes much more sense to put them into treatment. I am just waiting for McCain to argue for imprisonment of non-violent offenders.

[shadowknows69]

184. This is huge for me

Sadly I have friends and family caught up in this travesty of justice.

[Cathryn]

186. I AGREE 100%!

It's a waste of resources and tax payers money. If they're not doing any harm to anyone why should it matter?

[NJmaverick]

189. It will save the tax payers, a huge ammount of $$$$

and prevent potentially productive members of society from being wasted.

[Evergreen Emerald]

190. I have a problem with that statement "drug offenders"

include dealers and manufacturing. Meth does awful things to the environment and to families. Dealers use all sorts of harmful activities to continue their trade.

Obama is way off base on this.

[reggie the dog]

238. that is why we need legal, regulated production

meth is so rough on users in the states because of the impurities in the meth there. In the EU most meth is in pill form. As for dealers, most dealers I know do nothing harmful to continue their trade. Of course my dealers are mostly middle class and do not sell on the street. Harmful activities to continue the trade, turf wars etc. would be violent so they would still get locked up.

[Hestia]

191. Does anyone else watch NOW on PBS. A couple of weeks ago

the show was about for-profit prisions, Colorado specifically. A CO representative said that the big for-profit prision corp (is it CCD? CCA?) lobbies state congresses for HARDER and LONGER prision terms. In some states, Iowa I believe, the for-profits actually wrote their new crime bills. The only way to keep the profits going is to keep the beds full. 35 states use the for-profit prision system. The Colorado rep. says their is a direct correlation between the upswing in prision population and when the for-profits came online.

You can watch all episodes of NOW on pbs.org - I can't believe more people don't watch this show - it is about solutions to problems, some they highlight are fantastic. One show was about the homeless in NYC and the non-profits figured out instead of getting a homeless person into individual programs, it was cheaper to actually just pay the rent and utilities on an apt. They actually saved millions of dollars doing it this way.

[Deep13]

192. That's fine for users. I'm for prison for dealers.

There is no treatment for dealing because it is not an illness.

[pattmarty]

196. Do you know anything at all about drugs? Dealing or usage?

[Deep13]

202. I'm a criminal prosecutor, so yeah, i do. nt

[pattmarty]

213. Well duh, maybe no ya don't! You are looking at it from a prosecutors....

....point of view. What about treatment instead of punishment for ALL offenses? What about the failed 40 yr "war on drugs"? What about the US having the largest per capita prison population in the world? Being a prosecutor doesn't make you a fucking expert, does it?

[reggie the dog]

240. you are a DA, so you must know how to make users look like dealers

I got caught one time in Virginia with 45 grams of weed in one bag. The DA prosecuted me as a dealer because he considered that "I must be dealing". It was bullshit because I had bought a pound in Chicago and sold half of it in Illinois, stashed the rest at my house, and started out on vacation with 2 ounces (56 grams). I had never sold anything in Virgina but the damn DA made trumped up charges of dealing to try to scare me into a plea bargain. As soon as they made the offer of a plea I knew I was going to be found innocent, the DA had no case. They searched me with no warrant or probable cause, the judge did not allow the evidence and the DA looked dumb as hell with a bag of weed in his hands.

How many users caught with a months supply have you personally tried as dealers to give them a longer sentence even though you knew they were just users? How many times did you do that to prove you were "tough on crime"?

You were really just being a bully to your fellow citizens. How can you even suggest jail for people who sell pot? Pot is less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco and you know it, yet you favor jailing a pot dealer but not an alcohol dealer just because some biggoted assholes wrote a discriminatory law.

[reggie the dog]

239. why would you want to put people in prison

because they sold me, a 29 year old, a bag of cannabis? What harm did they do? Hell, what harm does a heroin dealer do? It is not as if they force people to use heroin, the users will find another dealer. The risk of prison makes dealers violent because people not willing to take the risk of jail do not deal, and more hardened "fuck everyone" types get into dealing. DEALERS DO NOT FORCE PEOPLE TO BUY THEIR PRODUCTS, HELL THEY DO NOT EVEN ADVERTISE!

[Romulox]

254. Job security; same as prison guard unions and the corporations that run prisons...nt

[Romulox]

253. In other words, you want to keep for profits prisons going because you have a financial interest

Not a very compelling argument, barrister. :eyes:

[pattmarty]

194. Thank fucking God, this is the person we've been waiting in the desert for!!!!

[windoe]

195. Somehow the drug cartels

like */CIA have to be dismantled because (I believe) this drug money is supporting the most violent regimes, including the extremist RW in this country. Decriminalization would bring down their profits considerably.
NO solution is perfect and without holes, drugs are here to stay, dealing, labs and users are a part of the world. But dismantling the prison industrial drug networks-is important for US strength and credibility worldwide.

[reggie the dog]

241. let Pablo Escobar

import the cocaine for all I care, so long as the trade is legal the violence will fall away and taxes will be paid.

[sonias]

197. I totally agree with that position

We make hardened criminals out of people who need help. We ruin lives of people by giving them prison records they can never recover from. The whole rest of their lives they are viewed as criminals and never given the opportunity to redeem themselves. They can't find jobs, or rent housing etc.

Not to mention that the errors of conviction and our crappy indigent defense system in this county makes it impossible for wrongly convicted people to get justice.

The worst public policy ever!

I applaud Senator Obama for this stance and I do hope that Congress will address this very serious issue.

Sonia

[La Lioness Priyanka]

201. yay!

[Turbineguy]

203. Good Plan

we can use the space for incarcerating Bush administration people.

[mdmc]

206. WAS THIS RETRACTED?

according to NORML?

[cbc5g]

214. I think thats marijuana decriminalization -- which hes flopped back and forth on

meaning he thinks its bad for election year politics.

But he said no jail for non violent drug offenders just yesterday. It's not the greatest but its a better policy

[mdmc]

251. thanks for the update

Get ready for a sharp learning curve - whoever the veep will be will most likely be a drug war warrior.

[greiner3]

211. A lot of rich republicans make a lot of money;

Jailing these same non violent drug offenders. While I whole heartedly agree with Obama, this will add more resistance to the GE.

[Enrique]

226. a relatively radical position

I'm surprised his statement hasn't been reported anywhere. :shrug:

[dsomuah]

233. I agree with him too ...

Bush walks scott free but you wanna lock up someone for smoking a blunt?

[Fox Mulder]

245. Good.

:)

[Wizard777]

248. Go Obama!

[Matariki]

250. dear god - is it possible we'll have a reasonable grown up in charge for a change?