Racist By Proxy - More Cowardly Than In Your Face Racists

[Median Democrat]

This is to those people who on the eve of another primary, are flooding this board with concern about the impact of race on the voting choices of other people.

Specifically, it seems like a lot of people today are raising racial issues out of "concern" about how issues regarding "race" will be received by the general electorate. They will deny that they themselves are racist. However, they will say that they are "concerned" about how the "white working class" will receive these comments. They will express concern about rumored tapes or quotes regarding candidates saying things that might be racially charged, but they are too cowardly to accuse that the person of being a racist.

Well, being a racist by proxy, means that you are a racist pure and simple. Worse, you are a cowardly racist, because you hide behind your mock concern regarding how "others" might be racist to justify your choice in relying on race and spreading racist rumors.

This also applies to sexism. However, the irony here is that while many Hillary supporters insist that she has suffered from sexism, they do not extend that argument to suggest that Hillary is also unelectable due to sexism.

So, don't insult our intelligence by saying that you are only concerned about "electability," which is why you are concerned about race.

No Hillary supporter is making this argument, but would you think it is okay for people to vote against Hillary because she is a woman, not because they are sexist, but because they are concerned about "other people" being sexist? Obama supporters are not making this argument, because to do so would be sexist.

You can't have it both ways. So, drop the racist and sexist BS now. Or, at least, stop being a coward and own up to the fact that you are racist if you are relying on the racism of third parties to justify the trash you are posting.

[TwilightGardener]

1. "Racist by proxy"--good term for all those who INSIST they aren't racist, but

are just so worried that EVERYONE ELSE is that we must not nominate the black guy.

[BlooInBloo]

22. I learned the term from the nutty poster below yours.

[TahitiNut]

2. Racism-By-Proxy (Wed Apr 30th 2008, 12:10 PM)

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut/500

[phrigndumass]

14. +1 ... sorry I missed your post the first time, TahitiNut

Good read :thumbsup:

[papapi]

3. Amen

[Adelante]

4. Very well said

:thumbsup:

[pscot]

5. Just good, old-fashioned race baiting

A staple of American politics for the last 40 years.
:puke:

[ellacott]

6. I don't understand what you are saying

Are you saying that people who express concern regarding racial matters are actually racist? Do these racist by proxy people support Hillary or Obama?

[jgraz]

7. Worth a quick distillation of the Clintonist reasoning

+ Hillary Clinton has been a victim of horrible sexism during the primary race.

Therefore...

+ Hillary Clinton is the most electable because sexism will not be a factor in the general election.

and...

+ Barack Obama has NOT been a victim of racism during the primary race

Therefore...

+ Barack Obama is completely unelectable because racism WILL BE a HUGE factor in the general election.


:crazy:

[FlaGranny]

8. In a nutshell. n/t

[nomorenomore08]

9. It just doesn't make any sense at all, does it?

Either the electorate is more sexist than racist, which would (ostensibly) make Obama more electable, or they're more racist than sexist, which would (ostensibly) make Clinton more electable. You can't have it both ways.

[TahitiNut]

19. Perhaps racists are sexists and vice versa?

After all, they're merely different brands of human objectification. :shrug:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

10. Get out of my head!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6225475&mesg_id=6225539

;)

[jgraz]

16. Oh that's where I am. I was wondering why it was so dark.

:P

[sundancekid]

11. and too many of these PROXIES live everywhere -

they're at the water cooler, they're at your next dinner party, they are even found on progressive boards ... many a friendship has been revisited about these alleged proxies ... turned out the proxies were none other than those very co-workers, guests, posters or even so-called friends

[dorkulon]

12. I support Obama, but I don't think it's necessarily racist to worry

that the country is too racist to elect him (or too sexist to elect Hillary).

I think it's fairly obvious that a black man or a woman couldn't have been elected in, say, the seventies. I also think the fact that a woman and a black man became the Dem frontrunners means we've progressed somewhat. But do I worry sometimes that we might be giving the nation too much credit, that a lot of Americans are still too racist to vote for a black man? Sure I do. Does that make me racist? Of course not. I do indeed think that Obama will win, but yes I'm a little nervous about it.

[pampango]

13. Electing an AA president (or a woman) was never going to be easy. Scaring whites will undoubtedly

be one tactic that the RW uses to keep it from happening. I think (and hope) that it will not be successful to the extent that it will prevent Obama from winning the GE. His success in office should then reduce its effectiveness as a RW tactic in the future.

That the RW will try to scare whites regarding the prospect of a BLACK president should not be a surprise nor should it prevent us from taking this historic step. Our greatest advances have come in the face of opposition from the RW.

[dorkulon]

18. I agree, and I too don't think we should shy away from this challenge.

Just saying I don't think it's productive to label anyone who expresses concerns about this to be a racist.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. It's the "respectable" racism of "We just love our Nigras" of the White Citizens Councils.

Or, the "good master" benevolence of the slaveholders of the ante-bellum south who assured everyone that their slaves were better off than the white laborers in the North.

[IsItJustMe]

17. Hear hear. You got their number and so do I.

[Median Democrat]

20. Here's A Concrete Example That Most Of Us Can Relate To

Growing up in the U.S. many of us might have worked at a retail establishment. Sadly, but not surprisingly, I have heard store patrons say that they do not want to be attend to by a person due to their gender, or more commonly, their race.

Now, lets say you are the manager or owner of such an establishment. Is it okay to decline to hire a qualified person due to their race or gender in order to appeal to your clientele. We will assume that you do not personally have any racial or gender based animus? Is that ethically proper? Is that legal? Worse, from the perspective of the person seeking employment, how do you deal with this bias given that the person who has this bias is a third party? This is what I mean by racism by proxy. The manager is engaging in racism or sexism to the same extent as the customer who refuses to be served by a person due to their race or gender. Worse, because it is racism by proxy, the prospective employee cannot even confront the manager about their animus, because the manager will blame some unknown third party customer who is not in the room.

I think the lawyers on the board will point out that this is, of course, illegal, but even more importantly, I think it is immoral. America is a diverse nation. Racism or sexism by proxy is perhaps worse than in your face racism or sexism, because the disciminating party does not take responsibility for their discrimination. Rather, they blame "other people."

[chill_wind]

21. There's also the MSM's racism by proxy. America's Racial Litmus Test: Farrakhan

is not the problem.

"Sadly, it isn't only conservative and right-wing white folks who have chosen to make Farrakhan something of a racial Rorschach test for black leaders. To wit, the recent ventilations of self-proclaimed spiritual guru, Michael Lerner, who claimed in an April 29, 2008 e-blast from his "Network of Spiritual Progressives," that lasting damage had likely been done by Rev. Wright's praise for Farrakhan. According to Lerner, failure to clearly condemn the Nation of Islam leader is a "danger to any hopes of reconciliation between blacks and whites in this country."

But such a statement--in effect, placing the burden for racial reconciliation on black people, who must condemn Farrakhan in order for whites to be willing to dialogue--is a grotesque inversion of historic responsibility for the problem of racism in the United States."


America's Racial Litmus Test

Farrakhan is not the Problem
By TIM WISE

May 27, 2008

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Thirteen years ago, when I first started out on the lecture circuit, speaking about the issue of racism, it seemed as though everywhere I went, someone wanted to know my opinion of Louis Farrakhan.


(...)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=363329&mesg_id=363329

[BlooInBloo]

25. :) I wondered if you'd catch that on your own.

[chill_wind]

27. I'd say Pat Buchanan, for example, is about as subtle as a sledge-hammer,

but I'd be missing the point. It's the rest of the corp media at MSNBC giving him a legitimate voice night after night.
Scratch that--- a megaphone. Talk about yer proxy...

But it's not been limited to them. It's ALL of them: "Rev Wright! baawk!! Rev Wright! Rev WRIGHT!!!!!!!"

And all that echo chamber here..

P.S. Good article at that link. Sinking like a rock, though.

[kwenu]

23. Brilliant post!!! Well said.

[jsmirman]

24. Thank you for calling bullshit on this bullshit *

nm

[roseBudd]

26. My AA MIL is in a nursing home, hubby, FIL & I were in the lobby & an upper class white resident

who obviously was suffering from dementia was going on and an repeatedly using the n word, obviously triggered by spotting hubby & FIL.

Now this respectable white woman probably expressed her racist opinions only in safe (fellow racist) company before she became senile. My point is she was a racist before she lost her mind, losing her mind just liberated her on off racist switch.

[Why Syzygy]

28. EXCELLENT Point for all those claiming sexism is "worse".

It isn't being used as an EXCUSE as is his race! Absolutely.

I'm surprised there are still so many racists in the Democratic party.

[Median Democrat]

29. Why Hillary's Validation of Racism/Sexism By Proxy Is Harmful

We have all seen the quotes from Hillary where she argues that "working class whites" won't vote for Obama, and will vote either vote for her or McCain only. Separate from the election this is an extremely backward and harmful proposition for a national leader to endorse as legitimate. Again, I take a specific example from my experience.

I often deal with clients most of whom are men. Occasionally, they make less than flattering comments about women, and I am sure they would not make such comments if a woman was present. I will admit that I do not take it upon myself to point out how such comments are sexist, but such comments are. Men who are reading this, probably have been in this situation frequently in the work force.

That being said, when I have participated in the hiring process, it has never entered my mind that in considering an applicant, I should perhaps take into account the fact that my clients may have a higher level of confidence in a male employee due to the client's sexist attitutudes. I may be elitist(couldn't resist), but I try to base my decision on the most qualified employee based on experience, education and personality. I just do not consider the gender of the potential employee. Why?

First, well, its illegal, duh.

Second, I have to work with the employee, and so I selfishly want the employee who has the best work product.

Third, and most importantly, if I base my decision on the sexist attitudes of my client, then that is morally repugnant, and makes me perhaps worse than my clients who might have such attitudes, because I definitely know the permicious nature of such attitudes.

The big problem with Hillary's validation of racism, and by extension sexism, by proxy it that it suggests that it is okay. If it is okay to ignore merit, and focus on race or gender, when picking your elected leaders, based on their "electability," why not extend this rationale to your clients or customers?

Afterall, it is hard to prove discrimination case, and many folks will not sue unless you are overtly sexist or racist?

This is why I have been incredibly disappointed with Hillary. If she wants to be President, then she has a responsibility to say that voting based on race is wrong, rather than passively accept it, and worse, cite this racism as a reason why the DNC should choose her over Barack Obama. Once bias based on racism by proxy is deemed legitimate, why not sexism by proxy so long as you personnally are not sexist?

[Catherina]

30. I think I'm in love. Great post n/t

[eridani]

31. Being realistic, either candidate will start out with a vote deficit

There are some who won't vote for Obama because he's half black, and there are some who won't vote for Clinton because she's a woman. Them's the facts. We just have to deal with it by working harder.

[democracy1st]

32. bingo,just got to work harder

[HCE SuiGeneris]

33. Very well said.

K & R

[crankychatter]

34. I'm pretty familiar with racism and education on issues of race relations

The first, most obvious indicator of covert racism, is excessive protestations of liberality.

BUT, it is NOT racism... to consider the question about whether or not the preponderance of Americans are beyond letting this effect their voting.

Concern over the issue of Race has been a BIG talking point in the Primaries. Concern trolling, on the issue is extremely annoying to me in DU. Is it a legitimate issue?

Black people didn't think we were ready and didn't vote in large numbers for Obama until after results came back from predominately White states. They were amazed and delighted, as are many White Democrats.

So if this is a concern for Black folks... it's certainly not proof of "Racism" for it to be a concern for White folks. One thing White people get to hear, is what is said when Black folks aren't around. Skepticism is perfectly understandable.

It is way past time to drop it as a talking point, even if it's coming from someone that is still rooting for Clinton.

This is now the province of the GOP. Democrats need to let it go with confidence and pride.

If you read this far, OP... you're right it's not something a Democrat should be harping about now. But you're wrong describing it as certain racism.

very wrong.

[crankychatter]

35. Real racism is a problem... not your "proxy" and here's the evidence

Folks that despise Obama, in an irrational, and vehement way...

You can't confront them. They incessantly accuse Obama supporters of false allegations of "racism." I have yet to read anyone directly calling out a Clinton supporter as being a racist on this board. I don't think it even happens.

But the proof is in the pudding. If there is NO OTHER EXPLANATION, if their vehement contempt for Obama and opposition to his nomination, appears completely irrational... I submit:

It is completely rational. It is completely reasoned. They don't like Black people.

Inexplicable opposition to Obama is explained by racism.

You can't confront them, as stated. But it's probably true.

[Prophet 451]

36. Let's not lie, racism is going to be a factor

I'be been supporting Obama since, well, actually since he gave that speech on race relations but his ethnicity is going to be an issue in the General. Question is, how do we deal with it?

[Median Democrat]

37. Simple, We Begin By Dealing With It

It would be nice if everyone but chutzpah to deal with issues of race in a frank even handed manner, as Obama did, but I am a little less ambitious. I think it takes (1) ethics and (2) honesty.

1. Ethics - Even if you somehow believe that "other" people are biased, do not avoid choosing, electing or hiring people based on their gender, religion or race, because of your perception of the senstivities of "other" people. Choose these people based on their merits and qualifications. Also, you might be surprised. Perhaps "other people" are less bigoted then you think.

2. Honesty - Does your reliance on the bias of "others" to justify a choice based on race, gender, or religion really reflect your own stereotypes and fears. This is very difficult, because few people will openly admit that they might have some racial or gender biases.

My best example. Geraldine Ferrero. She keeps on coming off as a more and more bigoted person each time she opens her mouth on TV. However, she probably does not even consider herself to be a racist. She is so self-assured of her credentials as a Democrat that she has lost the ability to appreciate the fact that she is a bigot when it comes to race. Once she accepts this, then she can move forward. However, so long as she denies that she is a racist, she is hopeless.