Here is why some Obama supporters are ridiculous:

[cboy4]

Let's say this all comes to an end this week, and Obama is the nominee.

What harm will Hillary have done to his chances against McCain?

That's a rhetorical question, since the answer is nothing.

She's rightfully stayed in the race to see that all voters in all of the states and territories had an opportunity to participate.

She's certainly responsible, along with Obama, for the record number of Democratic registrations during this process.

We were able to see what happens when states don't abide by DNC primary rules. It was very ugly. Maybe people learned something.

So what's the problem?

Are you telling me that Obama's chances of defeating McCain have been diminished because Hillary made the decision to allow everyone to vote?

Considering how disastrous this current administration is .. the worst in modern history, if not ever .. what excuses are justified if Obama loses in November?

Are people going to blame Hillary, when Obama should be able to defeat McCain with as little as a month of campaigning .. along with his hands tied behind his back?

Any Democrat should be able to defeat McCain, any after this war, and torture, and record gas prices and the mortgage crisis and on and on.

It's time to stop blaming Hillary for lessening Obama's chances of defeating the GOP.

He's the one who needs to step up to the plate.

And if he strikes out, that's his fault.

[GarbagemanLB]

1. There is no problem, as long as she gets out soon.

[cboy4]

5. Any idea why so many of your fellow supporters disagree

with you?

[papapi]

15. I thought you were a fellow supporter? Changed your mind?

[roguevalley]

26. who cares? soon it will be over and you will have to spew elsewhere.

good. and if anyone is ridiculous, its you coming here and urping up on the forum when its clear she has lost.

[Texasgal]

50. I find that you only seem to focus

one ones that are against anything Hillary.

There are plenty of us who are not "against" Hillary and respect her.

I should know... I am one.

[cboy4]

62. Well that's nice to hear Texasgal. But being the decent

Democrat that you are, I'm sure you will agree that's not said very often around her.

And that's the reason for the focus of which you referred.

She is heavily, heavily outnumbered here, so I speak up to provide even the slightest bit of balance.

[Texasgal]

71. I agree with that

All I am saying is instead of seeking out the crappy posts wouldn't it behoove you to focus on the positive ones?

There are some out there.

Focusing on the negative just makes...well...negativity??

[woolldog]

2. There are a few narratives she deployed that have taken hold

and that are poisonous.

[yourguide]

34. indeed

[cboy4]

45. Like?

[woolldog]

116. in the interests of "party unity" I'm not going to rehash this stuff.

Most people understand the things I'm talking about.

[roseBudd]

49. when she mentioned hard working americans, white americans she used a dog whistle, only being a

Democrat she couldn't be subtle like a Republican can since the Democratic party is the party of Welfare Queens driving Cadillacs.

[Abacus]

3. I think you have a crush on us

I can think of no other way to explain the fixation.

[hendo]

188. can you blame him?

Obama supporters are sexy.

[SoonerPride]

4. She forced him to waste tens of millions of dollars to battle her instead of McSame

Plus the money that was donated to her later in the game should have gone to either Obama or the DNC for downticket races.

Her vanity exploits cost us dearly in time and money for the GE.

So yeah, she should be ashamed of her vanity run.

[la la]

27. now- please--------

that is a totally ridiculous statement. Isn't this America? Shouldn't anyone who is able and willing be 'allowed' to run for president?

[MonkeyFunk]

79. No

they think running against Obama is an affront to democracy.

[guruoo]

They must have put their candidate on ignore

[SoonerPride]

95. My candidate was Hillary. I voted for her on super Tuesday.

Then she lost 12 straight and I and evweryone else knew it was over.

Obama had an insurmountable pledged delegate lead and everyone knew the supers would not override the will of the voters.

Thus it was a waste of time and money.

[cboy4]

102. I find it very, very difficult to believe you would turned

so aggressive toward the person you claim to have voted for, simply because she wanted to stay in the race and allow states to participate.

I didn't even vote for Hillary, and I'm more respectful toward her than you?

How does that add up? (rhetorical question).

[SoonerPride]

107. Believe it or don't, I couldn't care less.

I knew she lost after 12 straight and switched my support - publicly on DU - at that time.

It was over.

[guruoo]

134. In your opinion.

[SoonerPride]

It has played out precisely as I said it would,

The same as all the other people who pay attention.

He had built an insurmountable lead.

It was over.

Do a search for the thread if you want.

[guruoo]

138. I'll take your word, I just don't agree that

Hillary's campaign was a waste.

Kudos on nailing your prediction.

[SoonerPride]

139. Here, you can see what I was saying on March 3rd

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4862725

[SoonerPride]

141. And on March 10

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5014240

At what point will Clinton give up and/or her supporters realize it is over?
Sometime after Pennsylvania?

Summer?

Dragged kicking and screaming from the convention floor?

Never?

Look, I voted for Clinton on Super Teusday and helped her carry Oklahoma. But it is OVER folks. The people have spoken. She cannot win without a super delegate reversal of the popular vote. Period.

In terms of states won, delegates amassed or even popular vote totals, it is over.

I, as a member of the DEMOCRATIC party, was taught to love and respect elections. Remember our dear friend Nancy Pelosi and her prophetic words: "Elections have consequences." Hillary Clinton put up a good fight and until the last week or so it was a decent fight. Now it has spiraled into a nightmare of depressing lies, innuendos and smears.

Repeat after me:

IT

IS

OVER.

The sooner she realizes it, and her supporters embrace that reality, we can begin to focus our attention, united and energized to beat the Republicans in November.

[guruoo]

154. Like I said, kudos on the prediction.

[guruoo]

153. I trust your word that you predicted the outcome

[SoonerPride]

155. The thing is, EVERYONE who can add knew this would be the outcome.

There wasn't any chance in overtaking his pledged delegate lead and supers weren't gonna kick the first black man to the curb who was leading in delegates. So the fantasy put forth by Hillary that the supers would choose her over Obama was a farce.

Everyone who paid attention said the same thing day after day and week after week.

It played out exactly as predicted.

Thus all that money is down the drain.

*sigh*

[guruoo]

160. Oh yes, clairvoyance abounds here....

[SoonerPride]

163. It is called math. It is not some mystical thing. Simple numbers. Plus and minus.

The numbers were over in March.

We all knew she would win some more states and Obama would too.

The exact size and proportion was somewhat at play, but the overall outcome was a foregone conclusion.

Her only real hope was some catastrophic, way worse than Wright thing, something so abhorrent, so ghastly, dead girl or live boy type incident that the supers would save her.

In the meantime, we frittered away tens of millions of dollars while at the same time kneecapping our nominee.

[guruoo]

171. I just want to know one thing....

Are we having fun yet?

[SoonerPride]

85. We just think it was a waste of everyone's time and money

If you think wasting tens of millions of dollars in a primary fight is more important than the generl election battle, you are sadly mistaken.

[guruoo]

86. Again - arrogant much?

[SoonerPride]

90. Again, no, not really. But I live in reality land and money is valuable.

It seems to matter little to Clinton who despite a huge war chest is $25 million in debt.

[guruoo]

114. 11K of which is her own money

[SoonerPride]

122. Yes, but there are millions more wasted, especially on bad advice from Mark Penn.

Her campaign was inept.
She started a mile race 1/4 mile ahead of the field and got beaten soundly.

Flat footed and unfocused, she ran a terrible campaign.

It was mean spirited and frankly disrespectful to our party.

I think the tenor of her campaign will fade and those fractures will heal, but the money pissed away on what amounted to a vanity run is frankly unforgivable.

She stayed in the race to say she was the first woman to take it this far. It was purely a vanity game, as she had no realistic chance of catching him in pledged delegates and super delegates aren't gonna override the people.

[guruoo]

132. I've observed plenty of 'mean spiritedness' from the BO side too, starting from

very earily on in the campaign.
(and that's putting it mildly)

[SoonerPride]

133. Prove it.

Link me.


And the words of bloggers or media dolts don't count.

From Obama or his campaign.

They fired the lady who called HRC a "monster."

What else have you got?

[guruoo]

136. ROTFLAMO!

Sorry, but I've got better things to do with my time, bubba.

[SoonerPride]

137. Then you fail. You make assertions and can't deliver = fail.

Precisely like Hillary's campaign.

Always playing the victim and failing to prove any of those assertions.

Then lashing out and hitting below the belt.

Then decrying any rebuttal as a sexist strike at her.

You fail.

[guruoo]

143. No, I just no longer play the 'link me' game, as I've already BTDT

Like I said, I have better things to do with my time than
chase down months old posts and emails.

[SoonerPride]

149. IOW you can't provide any evidence of Obama being mean-spirited.

Your assertions fail.

[guruoo]

156. No, the attacks I refer to were launched through his "supporter" network

rather than through the candidate himself.

Brilliant strategy, I might add.

[SoonerPride]

159. Well Clinton HERSELF was mean spirited and in my opinion it made her look un-Presidential.

She should have stayed above the fray too.

[guruoo]

162. She did until she became weary of the swiftboating she was receiving

[SoonerPride]

166. FROM OBAMA?? or even his surrogates?

She had everything all laid out for her and her campaign was inept.

That is why she went negative, because she was losing the ground game.

His team outworked her. She lost all those caucus states that they overlooked and then when she was behind she went negative.

That's reality.

This meme that somehow Obama or his campaign "swift-boated" her is a farce.

[guruoo]

177. Whatever.

[cboy4]

148. You voted for Hillary? Wow. Something happened.

Did you bump your head?

[SoonerPride]

152. I posted this on 3/10/08

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5014240

At what point will Clinton give up and/or her supporters realize it is over?
Sometime after Pennsylvania?

Summer?

Dragged kicking and screaming from the convention floor?

Never?

Look, I voted for Clinton on Super Teusday and helped her carry Oklahoma. But it is OVER folks. The people have spoken. She cannot win without a super delegate reversal of the popular vote. Period.

In terms of states won, delegates amassed or even popular vote totals, it is over.

I, as a member of the DEMOCRATIC party, was taught to love and respect elections. Remember our dear friend Nancy Pelosi and her prophetic words: "Elections have consequences." Hillary Clinton put up a good fight and until the last week or so it was a decent fight. Now it has spiraled into a nightmare of depressing lies, innuendos and smears.

Repeat after me:

IT

IS

OVER.

The sooner she realizes it, and her supporters embrace that reality, we can begin to focus our attention, united and energized to beat the Republicans in November.

[cboy4]

168. You say Hillary put up a good fight and then in the next

breath, you say she only put up a decent fight.

And what's happened in the "last week or so?"

SoonerPride, the bottom line is you're the kid who demands his birthday presents a month early.

There's nothing wrong with this historic and exciting show of democracy.

[RandomKoolzip]

235. I believe he meant "decent" in the moral sense of the word,

not in any sense of a chromatic gradation of "good."

[krkaufman]

212. M, not K... which had to be answered by 11M, give or take, from Obama's fund

The race was over weeks ago, but Hillary's negative campaigning has cost the Democratic Party. How much is yet to be seen.

[cboy4]

88. It sounds like you believe democracy is a waste of time

and money.

What a tragic admission.

[SoonerPride]

91. The outcome was a forgone conclusion after 12 straight losses.

The math wasn't there for her and it played out precisely as anyone with a brain would have predicted.

Thus it was a gigantic time and money waster.

[cboy4]

96. So you would have preferred to halt democracy because

it's a gigantic time and money waster.

That's what I said. Tragic.

[SoonerPride]

101. Halt democracy? Have the repukes halted their primaries?

You can continue to have elections and practice democracy, but it was a foregone conclusion that he had an insurmountable lead.

It was mathematically impossible for her to catch him.

Thus, you can play games in each state and waste money or Hillary could have suspended her campaign, like everyone else in the field, and saved our coffers for the real important battle against McSame.

[cboy4]

106. Obama has plenty of money with all of his supporters

going into debt on his behalf.

Money will not be the issue.

[SoonerPride]

112. Do you doubt that millions more would be on hand to fight McSame?

What about the millions more that went to Hillary in a losing sinking titanic epic fail?

That money could go to Obama or better yet, downticket races all over the country.

She wasted money from coast to coast.

[cboy4]

121. Then it's time for your people to pony up more money

SoonerPride.

And that includes you.

Democracy can be expensive.

[SoonerPride]

123. Yeah, I donate monthly. Thanks.

How much did you donate to Hillary. Too bad that couldn't be used against McSame.

Well, no matter.

I expect you to donate to Obama as well.

We all have to work together to beat McSame.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

175. Hillary wanted to "halt democracy" originally.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4636361&mesg_id=4636361

"It will be over by February 5th."

[cboy4]

182. That's a ridiculous. You're comparing a prediction to

people actively demanding to halt democracy?

I'm pretty sure you're smarter than that.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

192. Hillary didn't plan on GOTV post-February 5th.

"I have a campaign that is poised and ready for the long term. We are competing everywhere through Feb. 5," she said. "We have built organizations in many states. We have staff in many states."

So if wanting Hillary to drop out after 12 straight losses is "halting democracy," how is only setting up through February 5th -- therefore ignoring the voters of every state afterwards -- any different?

It was Obama who ran a 50-state strategy, not Hillary. She was only forced to do so after Super Tuesday failed to finish off Obama's candidacy.

It wasn't a prediction, per se, on her part. It was the confident perception of an imminent victory.

Forgot to add: By the time Obama racked up 12 in a row, it was mathematically impossible for Hillary to catch up in the delegate count.

[KoKo]

239. You believe a few early Primary States voters should always elect Dem Candidate?

You don't believe Democratic voters in every state in the Union and Territories should have a chance to participate in the process of selecting the nominee? :eyes:

That seems very odd ...if you believe in Democracy to feel that way.

[bvar22]

210. Nader had "The Right" to run in Florida in 2000.

How did that work out for us?

Hillary forced Obama and the Democratic Party to waste valuable resources catering to her vanity campaign long after she was mathematically a "LOSER".
Her absurd appeal to the rules committee last weekend cost several $Million....WASTED.
This money and time could have been better spent fighting Republicans than catering to Hillary's delusions.


BUT....she had "The Right". :puke:

[cboy4]

217. Terrible comparison. Is Nader a Democrat? Of course he's

not.

So you're arguing apples and oranges.

[guruoo]

41. Arrogant much?

[SoonerPride]

75. um, not so much. Thanks though for your input, such as it was.

Really.

That was most helpful.

[Arkansas Granny]

120. I donated money to Hillary's campaign both early and late in the campaign.

Why should I have sent it to Obama when I felt that Hillary had the best chance of defeating McCain? I've also contributed to the DNC and downticket races, so that argument is out too.

[rodeodance]

240. Obama is such a victim. tsk tsk

[hedgehog]

6. It's not what she has done to date, it's the fear of what she might do between now and August or

now and November that's the concern. If she spends months preaching that Obama stole the nomination in some smoke filled back room AND people start to believe that, then it could hurt us in the fall.

[guruoo]

44. You don't believe she'll support the Democratic nominee?

[BobbyVan]

7. Hang in there, Hill!

[neverforget]

14. What goes up must come down......

[emilyg]

54. That includes O.

[neverforget]

64. Well, he's the nominee and I hope the only one going down is McCain

[anonymous171]

8. I just don't want a brokered convention.

[Arrowhead2k1]

9. Sure it is.

:eyes:

[cboy4]

66. Talk about running an inside joke into the ground.

[Arrowhead2k1]

84. For sure.

:eyes:

[papapi]

10. I won't be blaming anybody but the voters if we have to tolerate........

......another four years of fascism and murder.

[Imagevision]

11. Hillary already stated that McCain is more experienced then Obama, that was f**king dumb

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. Obama will trounce McCain in a landslide

Obama supporters worried about that are indeed silly. Like Hillary supporters.

[Art_from_Ark]

30. The last Democratic landslide by a non-incumbent was in 1932

Kerry was supposed to trounce bu$h in '04.

Nothing is a given.

[blogslut]

36. There are no incumbents this year

n/t

[Art_from_Ark]

42. That's right, no incumbents in either party

A very rare election. There has always been an incumbent president or vice president in a presidential election since 1920.

[Windy]

13. Love your support for Hillary and the HRC

Funny, Hillary voted against the cluster bomb ban and for a war... how do you reconcile the obvious dichotomy?

[cboy4]

31. Kind of ironic that they have the same initials, ha?

I don't know if I'm eligible to be considered a Hillary supporter, since I didn't vote for her.

However, I've become a fierce defender of her for sure, in part because she's been so disproportionately attacked in such a vicious manner in this forum .. despite the fact she is still a Democrat.

I don't claim to support her IWR vote, and I've never gotten involved with defending her politics.

I just don't think she's being treated fairly thus far, and there's hardly anyone here to defend her because they've all mostly left.

[tridim]

16. Obama weathered the Clinton storm much better than I thought he would.

The only drawback I can see now is the money thing. Obama would have had a much larger GE piggybank had Hillary not stayed in the race.

[cboy4]

69. Well then open up your wallet tridim if you're so concerned.

Hillary has every right to allow every state and territory to vote.

Nobody ever said politics is cheap.

[Gore1FL]

17. It just depends on how well the wedge issues hold over time

The Clinton-named "Kitchen Sink" strategy caused a lot of division. If she can help close the big cracks that made in the party,then no, her campaign will have not hurt Obama's chances.

[brindis_desala]

Now I understand why Bush got elected in 2000.

Americans are brilliant

[Art_from_Ark]

206. bu$h lost the popular vote in 2000

At least a half million more voters wanted Gore than bu$h. When it looked like bu$h would lose in a fair vote count, mandated by the Florida State Supreme Court, people that bu$h's father had appointed, directly or indirectly, to the US Supreme Court stepped in and stopped the vote counting.

bu$h wasn't elected in 2000-- he was appointed.

[ProSense]

18. Screw that! Summary of Hillary's campaign

I don't give a shit if people dislike or even hate me, I'm going to do my best to ensure that Obama is equally disliked and hated.

That's why she lost.

[merh]

19. You can look forward to these videos being made into ads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou4JnWQsxKw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BDqbPs27As&feature=related

[gateley]

43. The ads are already made for them. They just have to edit to :30 and buy air time.

Good job, Hillary. The Democratic party thanks you.


edit - typo

[merh]

60. exactly

but according to the OP, no harm, no foul. :eyes:

[cboy4]

73. Why isn't Obama strong enough overcome that if you

think it's a problem?

I read here that he's Superman.

[merh]

108. That is the most moronic question I have ever read on DU.

Not surprising, you aren't truly politically concerned, you just like being the antagonist, pretending to be a champion for the underdog. - Here's a newsflash - Hillary was the one with everything in her favor, she blew it and in screwing herself she has made things more difficult for the dem nominee.

Gore won in 2000, Kerry won in 2004 yet here we are, trying to get a dem in the White House so we can try to restore our nation and our rights and here you are playing dumb in an effort to be compassionate and clever.

Your bitterness shines through and there is nothing clever about your posts.

[cboy4]

118. This is just a typical Obama fan response.....always blaming

others for your problems.

It's time for your side to look in the mirror merh, and take some responsibility.

If people like myself vote for Obama, and he loses, how is that Hillary's fault? Or my fault?

It's not. It's Obama's.

So much anger toward someone who's on record as saying he'll support the nominee. :thumbsdown:

[merh]

142. Let's see if I can make this easy for you to understand.

There are more people that vote in this nation than just dems or republicans. Plenty of folks don't follow politics like the people that post here and at other political blogs or message boards.

My side to look in the mirror at what? At defending Obama and responding to the often idiotic and hateful posts written by folks more concerned with "hillary" than they are with the general election?

I'm not angry with you, I find your posts boring and divisive but they don't make me mad. It's a damn shame that so many think that posts challenging positions equate to mean or angry posts. If you can't handle the heat ...

[cboy4]

161. My posts are never boring.....I probably generate

more 100-plus response threads than only a few others in GD: P.

And there's a difference between "challenging positions" in name-calling mode and intellectual mode.

So of course my posts make you irate.

Unless you just have general anger management issues.

[Forkboy]

180. Yeah, but half of them are flamebait and get locked.

[cboy4]

186. That's generally because you and all of your Obama

fanatics disrupt them with personal attacks, in order to transform them into flamefests.

And believe me dude, you're one of the most passive aggressive Obama fans here.

[Forkboy]

189. "always blaming others for your problems" - cboy - post #118.

Have a nice night.

[merh]

208. LOL

I haven't called you any names and, from all of your posts it appears that it is you that has anger issues.

When I think of hillary's campaign it feels me with sadness, to think that she would go so low and campaign so desperately when she was the one that was ahead, considered the favorite. Her campaign is definitely not something that the young should use as an example in life.

Did you read about the women's softball playoff game between an Oregon and a Washington team? The Oregon player hit her first home run and as she ran to first she over ran the base, when she came back to tag the base she blew out her knee. The umps told her the home run wouldn't count unless she tagged the bases and went on to home. If she used a pinch runner the run would only count as a single. Her teammates couldnt' help her. Without being asked two of the Washington players picked her up and carried her across each base, allowing her to tag each one and home so that the home run would count. That extraordinary example of good sportsmanship cost their team the game and the playoffs.


http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/04/30/sports/SOF-Home-Run-Help.php

The fans and the players of both teams cheered them on and the world was astounded at the display of good sportsmanship.

The comparison to the primaries is pretty obvious. If that were Obama that injured his knee, Hillary would not help him up, she would probably kick him in the other knee. It has been about the win for her and not about the party or the nation.

[cboy4]

219. Merh, you can't even talk about a feel good story without

ranting and embellishing and altering the premise into a ridiculous fable in order to libel Hillary.

It's despicable behavior alright.

On your part. Not Hillary's.

[merh]

221. I didn't embellish a thing

It has been Obama that has taken the high road, he could have humiliated her in the last debate about her Bosnia lies. He didn't.

Hillary has gone out of her way to attack him, her comment about his not being muslim, as far as she knew. The comments about his church, his speech, mocking hope, the list goes on.

My comparison bothers you because you see it yourself, you are pretty obvious. When someone touches a nerve you attack them. You have posted post after post attacking me and others in this thread when they dare to challenge your distortions and victim game. You project your failings on others the problem is, they don't own the failures so they can't wear them quite like you can.

[PolNewf]

20. Simple...McCain can use Hillary in his attack ads n/t

[mudesi]

21. How much money and time has Obama spent defending himself from her?

She has already done damage to Obama's chances. Wake up to reality.

[wileedog]

22. There are much bigger reasons why I am ridiculous

That said, if Hillary concedes tomorrow or Wednesday in the most gracious way possible she can heal a lot of wounds. You will find that most who are so vehement against her these days actually liked her not too long ago, and she has the power to determine what her fate will be in the party going forward in her own hands.

[cbayer]

23. Well said.

I think this race, as hard and long as it has been, will turn out to be the best thing that has happened to this party in a long time. I also agree with you that she has not hurt Obama or his chances of winning the GE. She will continue to fight for us and the party, whichever path she chooses for the future.

I, for one, am very, very proud to have been a part of this historical race.

[cboy4]

81. It's democracy at its finest.

I'm glad I've been part of it also.

[newmajority]

24. Hillary's extended vanity campaign has hurt more than Obama

It's also taken money that could have gone into local races, possibly strengthening actual Democrats against Repuke or DLC incumbents. We need a real majority of REAL Democrats in both houses in January in order to get things done. And Hillary probably knew this to be the case. The DLC doesn't want a real Democratic majority, so the longer her egotistical crusade robs the local races, the better as far as they're concerned.

[cboy4]

82. Too bad about the money newmajority. Then open your

wallet and contribute more, as so many Obama supporters love to do every payday.

But don't pin this on Hillary. She has every right to campaign through the final primary.

[JimGinPA]

25. Fail!

Hillary has offered the GOP fodder for a number of ads for the GE with her "kitchen sink" campaign. Her hanging on for a couple months has cost Obama a lot of money and precious time that would have been better spent on a full-fledged campaign against McSame. You can live in an alternate reality if you'd like, but don't expect others to buy into your bullshit. She lost, but she lost ugly.

[cboy4]

35. So you're saying Obama isn't particulary strong enough

to defeat McCain with even a month of campaigning?

That analysis sure doesn't bode well for our chances in November Jim.

[JimGinPA]

99. Actually, I Was Saying Your OP Was Shit...

Sorry you couldn't figure that out.

[cboy4]

109. You're quite the scholar, aren't you bud?

Yet another post you couldn't answer.

[JimGinPA]

126. Smart Enough To Recognize A Loser I Suppose...

You have about 8 more days to post your garbage. Enjoy.

[FlaGranny]

164. Of course, if Hillary had NOT done

the kitchen sink thing, the race would have been over long ago. The innuendos and muckraking slowed down his support. If Obama had attacked or fought back in kind, there might be a bigger spread now. She certainly did damage to him. He could have damaged her but didn't. I hope it doesn't hurt him too much in the long run.

At times I was angry he was so gentle with her. I always respected him for it, but now we'll have to deal with commercials of Hillary proclaiming McCain the better candidate, and probably the "as far as I know statement," and fanning the flames of the Wright fiasco. She's given McCain ample ammunition. She never once defended Obama as he defended her when she screwed up.

[jgraz]

28. Luckily, she's as inept at character assassination as she is at running a campaign

That doesn't change the fact that she's a disgusting human being.

[Pushed To The Left]

29. I just don't want them to damage each other. I don't mind a competitive primary, but things have

gotten to the point where we have both Clinton and Obama supporters threatening to not support the nominee in November if he/she isn't their primary choice. That's the only thing that has worried me about the primary going as long as it has. I hope they unite soon.

[Danger Mouse]

32. I would've preferred if she had dropped out sooner...but staying in to tomorrow does no harm.

My biggest concern has always been a fight at the convention.

[gateley]

33. I'm listening to the opinions of those who KNOW the political game

far better than I (or you) do. When the leaders in the Democratic party are concerned that this campaign has been divisive, and that in turn that division will hurt us in the GE, I believe they know what they're talking about.

Howard Dean warned on Sunday that a Democratic Party that’s still divided come convention time could hand the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, Arizona Sen. John McCain, the presidency.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9404.html


At a news conference in Cleveland, Ohio, Dodd warned that a heated fight for the Democratic presidential nomination could damage the party.

"I don't want a campaign that is only divisive here, and there is a danger of it becoming that, not because the candidates want it, but too often the advisers, the consultants, others are seeking for that divisiveness," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/26/dodd.obama/index.html


To cite just a couple.

[cboy4]

38. So you really think there will be so many Democrats

refusing to support the nominee because their bitter?

I don't.

I think people will start to imagine what it will be like to have McCain picking judges, and that alone should make people set their anger aside and do the right thing.

[gateley]

53. This campaign has gone on for so long,

and Hillary's supporters are so invested in it. They've given it their all. You can't just jump back from that and re-focus immediately.

Hell, it took me a long time to get over Biden's dropping out, and he was only in the running for like a minute!

My concern is we need TIME to be able to come together before the GE, and if Hillary takes this to the convention, people will still be raw two months later.

[Exilednight]

37. "What harm will Hillary have done to his chances against McCain?" Future GOP commercial........

Fade in picture of Hillary Clinton

Voice Over: Senator Obama's fellow Democrat's believe he's not ready to be Commander in Chief.

Hillary voice over: Senator McCain brings a life time of experience, I bring a life time of experience, and we've both crossed the Commander in Chief threshold.

Fade out picture of Hillary.

Fade in picture of Senator McCain.

Voice Over: There you have it. Senator Obama's own party doesn't consider him ready.

Imagine all the damage they could do with the Bill Clinton fairytale comment.

[cboy4]

40. So Democrats are going to see that and vote Republican?

Or are Republicans going to see that and vote Republican?

[Exilednight]

48. Democrats and rethugs don't determine elections. Independents do. Look at how many indepedents ...

bought into the Swiftboating.

[LordJFT]

39. Clinton said Obama wasn't a muslim "as far as I know"

you don't think those kind of comments do harm to him?

[guruoo]

47. No more than some BO "supporter" comments have harmed her.

Regret much?

[Exilednight]

52. A supporter's comment is much different than coming out of the candidates own mouth. n/t

[emilyg]

57. Sounds truthful to me.

She can't guarantee anything about him.

[LordJFT]

59. you know better than that

[Bluerthanblue]

65. your reply is ironic- you are illustrating the harm done ?!

employing the self same "doubt a Dem's word" bullshit that turned me off to Hillary back in Dec.

:shrug:

peace~

[cboy4]

58. What, are so many Republicans so excited about puting

a Democrat in the White House that they're going to say:

"Ya know, I was all in favor of voting for the liberal, but Hillary said she wasn't sure if he's a Muslim."?

Come on.

[LordJFT]

77. sadly a very high percentage of people won't vote for a muslim

and Hillary is contributing the rumor that Obama is one

[DainBramaged]

46. Bullshit, she is derisive, insulting, and absurdly egotistical, and an asshole to boot.

[cboy4]

56. DainBramaged, I will use you as an example of what

I'm talking about.

Instead of answering the question, and I realize you didn't because you have no answer...

You stomped your feet, used some potty words, and pretty much put on display a world class temper tantrum.

Yourself and the other Obama supporters are the ridiculous people to whom I'm referring.

Well done for helping me cement my point.


on edit..typo

[DS1]

119. ugh

PLEASE don't think he speaks for us.

[cboy4]

124. No I don't.....and in my OP, I was careful to include the

word "some" while referring to the Obama supporters I'm talking about.

[DainBramaged]

181. You don't even speak well for yourself.

Another red X for posterity. God I can't wait till the election is over.

[Name removed]

179. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FSogol]

51. Time to tone down the rhetoric., cboy4 n/t

[Hola]

55. A house divided cannot stand

Another great politician from Illinois said that. Democrats should take it to heed. Your post was not helpful in that regard.

[Renew Deal]

61. Sounds like you've got a guilty conscience.

If Obama loses, you'll have to live with yourself.

[DeepBlueC]

74. if Obama loses, it's Hillary's fault...?

Please. Or maybe it's the fault of people who voted for Hillary in the primaries? Especially the folks who have just done so even after hearing that their candidate has lost? Why blame Hillary? Blame the voters. Those numbskulls.

[Skittles]

104. they'll blame Hillary until the cows come home

and believe me, the cows will NEVER come home

[DeepBlueC]

heh heh

It seems so.

[Renew Deal]

147. Hillary has cost Obama time and polling points.

She's put him in a worse position for the election. Republicans appreciate your assistance.

[DeepBlueC]

165. His weaknesses are his own

And he has the opportunity to address them. If he can do so, then he is stronger; if he can't, no should blame anyone but him.

[Renew Deal]

174. Like I said, good luck with your guilt.

;)

[DeepBlueC]

184. no guilt here

find someone else to blame. Look for where the buck stops.

[Renew Deal]

140. If you haven't been supporting Obama since March

You've been helping McCain and the republicans. Obama would have been better off with more time. We've known that Obama was going to win since February. Hillary has selfishly wasted our time.

[cboy4]

87. Well in your haste to post an accusatory post, you

discount my long standing position that I plan on voting for the nominee.

So if he loses, it's not my fault.

It's his.

[Renew Deal]

150. Your long standing position of helping the republican nominee is more troubling.

If you haven't been for Obama since March, you've contributed to the problem.

[cboy4]

178. Nice try.

I'm good at not falling into the Stockholm Syndrome trap like certain people.

[Renew Deal]

183. You already fell into it.

That's why you posted this.

[goletian]

63. she has mobilized the ignorant, racist and pseudo feminist dorks. thats not nothing. thats a lil

something... he will probably win without those fools, but she did some damage. good for her.

[DeepBlueC]

129. what's a pseudo feminist?

How can you tell the real ones?

[goletian]

151. the real ones speak out against real sexism.

[DeepBlueC]

176. oh, well, THAT explains it

thnx

[goletian]

187. np

[RBInMaine]

67. Fine, but, END IT AFTER TOMORROW !! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !

[Buzz Clik]

68. "What harm will Hillary have done to his chances against McCain?" OH, SHIT!

Sorry, pal, but it is NOT okay to say Obama isn't ready to be President.

It is NOT okay to say McCain is better prepared than Obama.

It is NOT okay to have proxies (including Bill) dismiss Obama's campaign simply because he's black.

It is NOT okay to repeat over and over again that Obama will never get working white people to vote for him.


Maybe I'll forgive her someday for her horrible, hateful campaign. Maybe not.

[cboy4]

89. Yea, I say the same thing about Obama allowing a

notorious homophobe to spew anti-gay hate at an official campaign event.

The part about maybe someday forgiving. Or maybe not.

[Buzz Clik]

167. Really? Knock me over with a feather.

My guess is that single point is the one and only thing you have against Obama: he flatly refused to throw a guy off the campaign in a very, very early stage simply because that guy espoused a single thought you don't like -- even though neither that guy nor Obama ever said anything similar on the campaign. You and a significant number of like-minded people have disrupted the holy hell out of DU by endlessly repeating that same point and taking that negative energy to justify every manner of hideous attack that one could ever imagine. And all leveled against someone in your party.

I've always felt you (collectively) are intolerable whiners. Do you think you made your case even more strongly with this? You have not.

[cboy4]

191. LOL. You have the gall to chastise me for hideous

attacks against "someone in your party" while at the same time blasting someone who is also someone in your party Buzz Clik.

You can't have it both ways with your attacks and whining.

[Buzz Clik]

215. This is so typical of you people -- it's a strategy perfected by Karl Rove and used on McCain.

Show no conscience in attacking your opponent, then fake outrage when they strike back.

You started this ridiculousness, and you will definitely live with the consequences. You bet your political capital on Clinton, and you lost. I won't be forgiving your obnoxious behavior anytime soon.


EDIT: Take a quick scan to the top of this thread and read the title. Then try to convince me that I started this.

[cboy4]

218. Uh huh.

That's what I thought.

[Buzz Clik]

223. Once again -- take a look at the title of this thread and convince me that you're a victim.

[cboy4]

226. It's entertaining in a sense that the more you write, the more

incoherent you become.

Talk about someone behaving as a victim. Good Lord.

[Buzz Clik]

227. Incoherent? Yeah. Here's the title of this gem: "Here is why some Obama supporters are ridiculous:"

Yet, you're trying to suggest that it's the Obama supporters who are picking on you.

I guess that's the perennial victim's mentality: Pick a fight, and then complain endlessly that people are fighting with you.

Keep it coming. I won't be going away.

[cboy4]

228. Not to mention your reading comprehension skills are

atrocious.

Where do I suggest Obama supporters are picking on me?

Right. I don't. Anywhere.

I presented the argument that is Obama loses the GE, it's not Hillary's fault like so many Obama supporters believe it is.

That's an honest point that more people than just myself are raising.

All you want to do is fight, instead of answer the question.

And I've never witnesses a bigger group of victims in my life than Obama supporters like yourself. You've lead practically all primary, you have all that money, all those crowds, all of that enthusiasm and all you want to do is whine.

Pathetic.

[Buzz Clik]

232. So now you've degraded this to a stream of insults about me.

You win: I'm dumb as a fucking rock, and you're a genius.

But, I'll tell you what, Einstein: I'll still be here to bathe you in well deserved ridicule every time you drag out the "I'm a victim" bullshit.

And, before you changed subjects (from the original point of the OP to "yer dum"), I directly addressed your original, flawed premise. Shall I quote your premise and my response? I think I have the mental capacity to do that.

[cboy4]

237. I realize I won. I just hope you're not taking your ball and

going home, because I enjoy schooling people like you.

[Buzz Clik]

243. The only thing you're winning is in the effort to avoid discussing your main point.

I'm assuming you conceded that point.

I'll give the rest to you.

[Colobo]

70. What matters is that she should get out soon.

[Yael]

72. I bring a lifetime of experience, McCain brings a lifetime of experience, Obama has a speech he made

in 2002.

The skies will open, the light will come down, celestial choirs will sing...

Nope -- nothing the RNC can use in those statements.

[hokies4ever]

76. Sorry that your hitjob on Obama fell flat. Please try harder next time.

:rofl:

[KAZ]

78. One of the worst DUer's.

[Skittles]

94. yes, you are

[KAZ]

111. Deep. I look forward to your next utterance with great eagerness.

One must usually go to a bowling alley to hear such wisdom.

I miss Hobson.

[Name removed]

230. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mtnsnake]

229. Amen to that!

:thumbsup:

[Swamp Rat]

80. Diebold

The Dem candidate has to win with overwhelming numbers.

If if Obama strikes out, that's OUR fault. Yours, mine, and everyone else here, and many more not here.

[cboy4]

92. Swamp Rat, we all know the Republicans are going to

cheat whether Hillary dropped out in February or this week.

And again, you're insinuating that Hillary staying the race would be affecting "overwhelming numbers."

I just don't buy the argument.

[Swamp Rat]

117. You misunderstood me.

I am only saying that we must show up in great numbers this November.

We must unify.

That is all.

[bowens43]

83. Lot's of harm was done by hillary.

we should have been fighting McCain not wasting time and money fighting hillary when she was basically defeated on super tuesday. If she had any integrity at all , she would have dropped out long ago.

[Skittles]

93. LOL CBOY - CHECK OUT THE RIDICULOUS RESPONSES

too fucking funny or sad, however we look at it

[SoonerPride]

97. ALL CAPS MAKES ME LAUGH.

OUT LOUD.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoonerPride]

103. TOUCHY LITTLE THANG AREN'T YOU!!

You should try decaf.

[Skittles]

105. AW, I THOUGHT CAPS MADE YOU LOL n/t

[SoonerPride]

113. OH, I'M LAUGHIN HONEY, DON'T YOU WORRY 'BOUT ME.

:rofl:

[KAZ]

115. Thar's what Skittles does. Screams and yells and uppercases.

Cyber foot stomping is her trademark.

[cboy4]

130. As opposed to mental instability. (your trademark)

Ooops, did I say that?

[KAZ]

135. Damn straight it's my trademark.

Oops, did I say straight? :)

Just kidding Cboy4.

[cboy4]

144. Oops, did I say straight.

Now that was funny. :)

I like you better when you're funny KAZ.

[KAZ]

158. I was just kidding cboy4. Please don't take that seriously.

Didn't mean to offend.

[Robb]

185. Wow.

:D

[U4ikLefty]

110. It all they've got left....to shout insults.

[cboy4]

128. Yup, although I didn't expect anything different.

x(

[Buzz Clik]

172. Funny how that goes -- you spew some obvious bullshit and get called on it.

Surprise!

:party:

[Buzz Clik]

170. Heh, heh. Too fucking true.

Here at DU and publicly, the Hillary campaign has shamed Democrats and personally attacked Obama and his supporters on a very personal level. And we're now supposed to kiss your fat asses and make nice because "we need you".

Yeah, maybe. Talk to me in a week. I might be less pissed off.

[Life Long Dem]

98. What happened to the advice most Hillary supporters repeated often, saying -

"wait until the GE. You've seen nothing yet", attitude?

[skiekite]

125. There wouldn't be any harm if Hillary Clinton wasn't so divisive

You can't see that? She manipulates her supporters and the American people. She fuels the ignorance and stupidity of people instead of embracing "the better angles". Needless to say, she can't win. That's why she should get out of the race. She doesn't encourage positivity but rather has ran a negative campaign. There's news for her: that era of politics is over. That's what she needs to get. It's time to move forward. I'm glad that we are at the point now, where most Americans can see through her lies and deceits and won't tolerate that kind of political tactic. That's why the American people DID NOT and ARE NOT voting for her. That's hard for her to accept, but she's got to move on and get over it. Her time is over. Let the people who do sincerely want change and progress to have their turn.

[cboy4]

131. Paragraphs are your friend here at DU.

And you don't think Obama manipulates his supporters.

Come on skiekite. These are politicians.

[Auntie Bush]

127. Hear! Hear!

Well said! Thanks!

[IndianaJones]

145. ALERTING. NT.

[cboy4]

193. LOL

Have you been in exile?

[IndianaJones]

198. Don't hang out in this pleasant space much lately. nt.

[cboy4]

203. Thanks for leaving all the work for me. lol

[XemaSab]

146. Hillary's contempt for Obama

and her MONTHS of allowing SMEARS to dominate the coverage of the primaries... may have hurt Obama. :(

[FlaGranny]

169. Of course she hurt him.

She didn't stop him with the dirty campaign, but she slowed him down. It was visible in the polls. She made it harder for him and probably damaged herself in the process, too.

[cboy4]

195. Obama better suck it up FlaGranny. If you think Hillary

"made it harder for him", he's ain't seen nothing yet, if and when he meets the GOP swiftboaters.

[FlaGranny]

246. Yes, I know, Hillary wrote the ads for them. n/t

[Milo_Bloom]

157. Less money because of her refusal to leave when it was over in March.

[PseudoIntellect]

173. "McCain and I have a lifetime of experience; Obama just has a speech he gave once."

That's a bit of damage to your own party's front-runner.

[quakerboy]

190. Ask Harriet Christian. NT

[last_texas_dem]

194. To me, this doesn't seem like a rhetorical question

>>>>What harm will Hillary have done to his chances against McCain?>>>>>

Nasty primary campaigns can do plenty of damage to a party's candidate's prospects in the GE by weakening the candidate's standing both among his or her own party and among independents.

I also think it's a major simplification to claim that Obama should be able to beat McCain with no difficulty in November. Whether our candidate was going to be Clinton or Obama, this was going to be a difficult race. Democrats do not win the presidency easily. Additionally, if a candidate wins or loses it is not solely the candidate's accomplishment or fault. All manner of factors and numerous individuals play a role in a candidate's success or failure in an election.

[cboy4]

196. I didn't necessarily mean to imply that Obama should be

able to beat McCain with "no difficulty."

But he or whomever, should be able to win period.

I understand we don't win the presidency easily.

We barely won the 2006 midterms, and theoretically, that should have been a blow-out considering the war was going worse at the time than it is now.

[casus belli]

197. Hillary has already blown your premise out of the water...

If she were in it for the voters to have a say, as you suggest, she never would have said the contest would be over by February 5th. The ONLY reason she is still in, is because she thinks she still has a chance. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the voters.

[cboy4]

202. I didn't suggest that she's **only** staying in the race for

the sake of voter participation.

Obviously, she feels the popular vote will be important in influencing supers.

And the only way you win the popular vote is to allow as many people to vote in every state and territory.

[casus belli]

207. Look, I don't blame her for staying in...

I would even argue that it has been helpful in some respects - such as voter turnout in states that aren't used to having any sort of impact in a primary. But, I think all of this was possible without the fuzzy math, and the insinuations that something is somehow being taken from her. That's the ONLY objection I have in all this, and it would be an objection if the tables were turned as well. i don't think it's productive to do something good for voter turnout and then suggest to those same voters that they have been disenfranchised by the process and the party. I have always been with Obama on this. He has never called for her to exit the race, and I understand why. It's her call to make, and he has been respectful of that. I think some of her handlers, on the other hand, have done a great disservice to us all by calling into question the validity of the contest.

But I'm hopeful. I think an end to the primary is within sight, and I have faith in my fellow Democrats that we will all do what is necessary to work together. For some it will take time, and I understand it. What people need to remember is that we ALL know what being on the losing end of an election is like. I don't want to go there again, and I truly feel empathy for Hillary supporters who I know are feeling a deep sense of disappointment about how it has turned out.

[bluestateguy]

199. Everything will be fine if she gracefully drops out this week

Primaries can be good for party building, but not when they become divisive and never-ending.

[DarienComp]

200. Man I can't wait until this thing is over...

maybe then we'll be spared your unending "Obamabots are mean" song.

[cboy4]

204. Yea, I'm hoping to be spared a lot of B.S. from your camp

as well Darien.

[calmblueocean]

201. It's pretty clear you've realized how Hillary has damaged Obama

... and that she'll share a large amount of the burden if he loses.

She was instrumental in devising and deploying several avenues of attack against Obama that have gained some traction. They've gained traction in part because Obama was limited in his ability to fight back against Hillary, since he needed to reach out to her supporters. So when Hillary starts hurling the "elitist" characterization around, for example -- a timeworn Republican line of attack -- Obama couldn't fire back at Hillary in the same way he would McCain or other Republican surrogates taking the same shot.

And of course, there's the agitation of her base, and the way her campaign has worked to stoke feelings of illegitimacy for Obama's nomination. Unification would have been easier and more successful had she dropped out months ago when it became obvious Obama was going to win the nom.

My sig for the longest time on this board was "Hillary or Obama, I'll vote for either of them," so I'm not particularly partisan on the matter. My honest opinion is that a Hillary-Obama ticket would've been a strong one, and set us up for 16 years of Democratic presidents. But the window for that closed long ago.

There's no pretending that Hillary wasn't in a position to deliver an extraordinary amount of damage to Obama, and did.

[WA98070]

205. The inevitable ad: Hillary Clinton,"He only has a speech." Is the first that comes to mind.

[AtomicKitten]

209. Yeah I'm sure Dems will be thanking her when GOP ads come out with her talking points against Barack

[krkaufman]

211. Her staying in the race had nothing to do with some mythical altruistic campaign on behalf of voters

She showed no concern for Floridians in 2000, and she certainly planned on this campaign being over by February 5th -- when she still thought she was going to win.

The issue w/ Clinton has never been her staying in the race. It has been her conduct and approach to competing, allying with the Republican candidate on several occasions and continually lying about the circumstances of her defeat -- making the effort to unify the party behind Obama a considerably more difficult task.

Yes, Hillary Clinton has hurt Democratic chances to win the White House in November. Such is life.

[cboy4]

216. You have no proof that the party won't be unified.

I think you will turn out to be wrong.

[krkaufman]

248. I certainly hope the effort to unify the party will be easier, or at least more successful ...

... than I currently envision.

But then I never said the Party wouldn't be unified; I said Clinton's campaign approach was going to make unifying the Party more difficult -- which I think would be an almost universal view at this point.

[JTFrog]

213. The Republicans have been lining up at the doors that Hillary opened for them. They've been openly

celebrating Hillary and her surrogates blazing the trail that they weren't sure would be worth the risk.

She taught the other team a few new ways to grease the ball, but that won't stop Obama from hitting it out of the park.

Batter up.

[midnight]

214. I agree.

[CatnHat]

220. to the OP: I've been

saying that all along. Obama and his supporters had Hillary and her supporters to blame up to this point--who's fault will it be after this? My guess--they're latch onto another excuse. Remember, it's never Obama's fault. :sarcasm:

[Buzz Clik]

225. Great point! This thread is a perfect example of Obama supporters starting a fight for no reason.

Oh, wait. This thread was started by a Hillary supporter.

Gee, that puts your premise right in the toilet.

Nevermind.

[dsomuah]

222. I'm an Obama supporter and I actually agree with you.

I've said before that we should stop being afraid of Hillary and quit focusing on getting her to drop out, and focus on the general election.

BUT ......

(and you knew there was a but coming)

Just because you believe that we don't need Hillary's help and support to win the GE doesn't mean we wouldn't like to go into this together with you guys (which is why all the bashing between the supporters irritates me).

And Hillary and her supporters refusing to help with the Obama campaign because they are sulking because Hillary wasn't chosen, is always going to make me think less of her ... and them.

[Buzz Clik]

224. I am a HUGE Hillary fan, and I think he's full of shit.

:eyes:

[dsomuah]

244. Of course you do.

[SeaLyons]

231. The Democratic Party handed the nomination to Obama...

The GOP will not. If he strikes out, he'll need to look in the mirror for the answers.

[Buzz Clik]

233. LOL! The Democratic Party voted for Obama.

Jesu Cristo. Read a bit. You know -- news. Facts.

[CatnHat]

236. Gee

I thought people voted for their choice.

[Buzz Clik]

242. That's the system, and Obama is leading.

You didn't know that?

[SeaLyons]

238. Super delegates are handing the nomination to Obama...

[Buzz Clik]

241. Yeah, that sucks considering that Obama trails in elected delegates. Oh, wait...

[uponit7771]

234. Time and money

[Usrename]

245. There are over a hundred million reasons.

Some morans are just too dense to ever figure it out, even when folks are blue in the face from trying to explain it to them.

Since you still have to ask this stoopid question, then one has to wonder about what your motives might be.

No one here thinks you are that stupid.

:eyes:

[HeraldSquare212]

247. Right - her comments about his not being ready to be Commander in Chief didn't hurt, eh?

If anyone else had said that about a fellow Democrat they'd have been run out of the party.

[iamthebandfanman]

249. lets say you hate obama and his supporters

we get it already.

stop with the attack posts.

[cboy4]

251. Lets say you're incapable of articulating an answer to the

question of why it's Hillary's fault if Obama blows the election.

We get it already.

And for the record, I've already said I'm voting for Obama, even though I'll be throwing up at the polls.

[ClassWarrior]

250. He'll be fine. The only things she's "lessening" are her and her husbands' reputations.

NGU.