Dropping out? Not dropping out? Problem remains...who fixes my broken state?

[madfloridian]

I turned on the TV for a short time and heard 3 different versions about tonight. For now I gather no one knows.

I read that one of the most outspoken Clinton surrogates in Florida was distancing herself. Hey, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, you got some fixing to do here.

Still, all the signs seem to point to an ending of this 147-day stage of the presidential race. Top Clinton supporters like Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Ed Rendell are inching away from their candidate, Clinton staffers are sending out personal contact information the way people do before they’re about to be out of a job, and even Bill Clinton is getting wistful on the stump.”

Political Wisdom: Signs of the End for Democrats?

Debbie has been so vocal she was even "distancing" herself from party rules. After all the efforts to divide, she can't just walk away and leave this state in turmoil.

Even Bill Nelson sort of indicated the time had come. He has been one of the most divisive, even promising blood all over the floor in Denver.

He has not had much to say, but I found this tucked into the bottom of an article.

Florida Senator Bill Nelson, a Clinton supporter, agreed that now was the time for a “message of unity” to take the fight to McCain.

Hillary fights odds.

They are the first to say anything remotely like it might be over, the lawsuits..two of them or three...still continue. And there is still the thought in the back of many minds here that will linger on for a very long time....that there was far more to the story.

From CQ Politics:

Contrary to the familiar view that her argument for counting Michigan and Florida is a tactic of last-minute desperation, Clinton’s reliance on counting both the delegates and the popular vote from both states was integral to her long-term vision of her possible electoral path to the nomination. It is — and has been for months — her Ace in the Hole. Hers is not a late campaign conversion or a post hoc, unplanned maneuver.

The effort to press for the counting of Florida and Michigan was a premeditated act, a deliberate strategy adopted at a time when it was clear that her opposition was relying on her representations that neither outcome would count. It was, in effect, a classic case of bait and switch.

While the opposition — and more importantly, her opponent’s potential voters — were relying on her assurances to the contrary, she was already signaling to Florida operatives that she planned to press for counting the anticipated favorable Florida outcome and thereby to capitalize on her opposition’s absence from the fight. What is most distasteful about how Clinton has dealt with the issue is not her inconsistency or her self-serving reversal of position. What is disturbing about the timing of her conversion to being the champion of the cause of the disenfranchised is the prospect that the advantage might have been gained by lulling the opposition into thinking that she meant what she said.

Clinton Had a Long-Term Strategy for Florida and Michigan

The primary may be nearing an end, but there are too many friends not speaking, too many groups that can not even discuss this situation without a blowout event occurring.

All of her Florida surrogates who who put their candidate above party rules and state unity should have a price to pay in the future.

Whether she stays tonight or goes, the harm is done here in Florida.

[izzie]

1. I still do not think it has a thing to do with us or the party. It is about

the Clinton's. I think they would do about anything to say 'I told you so' even if it takes Obama down. I used to think they would not do a thing to hurt the party but I think this has become about them and not us. I can not get this our of my mind.

[madfloridian]

2. I am feeling pretty much that way.

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

3. Is this state now being used as leverage for the VP nod?

I had not thought much about this, but the terrible anger at the rules committee ruling made me wonder.

I see a Huff post blogger is thinking that we will lose Florida if she is not VP. To be clear, I don't think it matters....but it may be why no one is being honest.

They may need to keep things stirred up with people threatening to vote Republican as they do in this article.

Mixed Semi-ending

There are many instances in this post of people who are not happy. But this statement sort of goes along with how I am feeling about it now. To make it seem the only way to keep Florida is to make her VP.

Florida finally got its long overdue recognition, but the Democratic National Committee's decision to give its delegates one-half a vote got mixed reviews. The decision left many local party activists less than happy and supporters of Sen. Hillary Clinton combative.

There is growing sentiment that only a Clinton vice-presidential nod could energize Sunshine State voters for November. Florida's senior senator Bill Nelson made a point of calling for both Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama to be on the ticket in November as he made the Sunday TV talk show rounds.

Meanwhile, typical remarks included the terms "stupid," "downright insulting," and other equally distasteful expletives, as Floridians watched in dismay as the DNC -- in a nationally televised meeting of its Rules Committee -- slashed Florida's voting power in half because it broke party rules by holding a primary on Jan. 29, seven days ahead of Super Tuesday.

....""We are not happy with one-half a vote," says delegate Barbara Effman, president of the West Broward Democratic club, the largest Dem-club in Florida. " But half a vote is better than none." She said that she would be less inclined to be angry if Clinton were the vice presidential nominee.

Effman joined Steve Geller in filing the lawsuit against the DNC.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

7. Sounds like the West Broward Dem Club

could use a new president.

Maybe one that will vote Dem.

[madfloridian]

13. Our Democrats locally and county could use new leaders as well.

They have been on board with trying to crash party fundraising and spreading anger against Dean and the party.

[guruoo]

35. DFA doing anything down there, mfl?

[madfloridian]

40. In some areas they are very active.

Not where I live, not right now.

[Tippy]

37. Or is Clinton using this as a way to get more contributions..

To pay off her debts...The first thing that pops upo is a plea for contributions. I know Obama's name was brought up in this context...but I don't believe he can do it....there are rules to keep any one person from contributing to much...

[Tippy]

38. I Daily Kos has came up with the same thought.....

[madfloridian]

4. National Journal sees a big issue as well....making Obama look not legit candidate.

http://blogometer.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/06/63_sending_mixe.html

"The political blogosphere is abuzz over the mixed signals emanating from Hillary Clinton's camp regarding her intentions. While several journalists reported yesterday that the Clinton camp was shedding staff and inviting top donors to her speech in NY, aides denied that Clinton plans to concede tonight. Consequently, liberal bloggers are divided in their views -- some expect Clinton to concede and endorse Barack Obama this week, while others are convinced that Clinton will stay in the race until the convention. Meanwhile, liberal bloggers continue to aggressively rebut Clinton's claim that she leads Obama in the popular vote. Liberal bloggers don't appear worried that superdelegates will find Clinton's claim persuasive; rather, they're concerned that Clinton's supporters will view Obama as an illegitimate nominee if they think he received fewer votes than Clinton."

I think that is a strong concern, another reason our state will be continue to be used unless party leaders step in and speak out...mostly Clinton supporters.

Clinton and surrogates will likely use FL and MI to declare Obama not legit.

One of the talking heads Sunday said he believe the Clintons were trying to put an asterisk by Obama's candidacy. Can't remember who, but the words rang true.

[stillcool]

9. I have read that here...

people actually blame Obama for Florida and Michigan. As if he had something to do with the sanctions voted for in August of 2007. It's pure propaganda. As so much of this primary season has been filled with. Obama campaigned and garnered votes and delegates according to the rules voted for in 2006, that determined how we in the "Democratic Party" were going to select our nominee. While the Clinton's played fast and loose in the media, and filing law suits.

[Why Syzygy]

22. The asterisk .. my thought all along. She is slime.

[joshcryer]

5. Only you can fix your state party.

[madfloridian]

6. I am now a pariah.

I can't fix that unless I go along to get along. You fix it.

[joshcryer]

8. It's not my state, and I think FL is one of the worst cultural despots in the country.

Sorry I feel that way but I wouldn't live in FL if I was forced to at gunpoint.

Shoot me instead.

[madfloridian]

11. I can't fix a whole state of uninformed fools.

.

[DrDan]

28. perhaps you should take a long, introspective look inside

to call the millions of other Floridians "fools" is not a good way to start.

[Jakes Progress]

31. 18 million fools and you.

Boy it must be tough being the only thinking person in Florida. And many of those are Democrats, so you are calling about 9 million Democrats fools. And they don't want to listen to you. Imagine that.

[guruoo]

34. Like they say, 'every journey begins with the first step' n/t

[snooper2]

36. I had a layover in Miami a couple months back..

All I can say is Florida looks nice when you fly over it...

until you land :puke:

[wiggs]

10. Do you agree, madflo, that Clinton and her surrogates planned a strategy

to at first deny Obama (or other underdog candidates) the ability to campaign in MI and FL so that she would carry on name recognition, with the assumption that their delegates would be fully restored later on through RBC, where she had a lot of support? This is what one of your links suggests.

Do you think the Clinton campaign was worried that an underdog candidate was gaining rapidly in popularity and that either FL and MI HAD to vote early in order for the favored but faltering Clinton to do carry those states? If so....then I can believe that the DLC and Clinton orchestrated the debacle.

Do you believe that the RBC would have consulted with the powerhouse Clinton team (heavily favored to be nominated and who had many reps on the RBC) before penalizing MI and FL? I do, and I bet Clintons granted approval behind the scenes. Whether or not they did it as a desperate campaign strategy or as a naive mistake not knowing how much trouble it would cause...I'd like to know your thoughts.

[madfloridian]

12. Here is what I feel....there was far more to it from the beginning.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2150

I do believe it was not an accident.

[wiggs]

19. Perhaps Dean thwarted the plan by convincing enough supers to declare

their support for Obama before the RBC meeting. If the delegate count had been closer, Obama's camp would not have been so eager to compromise for resolution...then the decision would have been much tougher with more likelihood of a convention fight where anything could happen.

But to believe this means thinking that the Clinton camp foresaw a delegate battle with a candidate quite a long time ago. That doesn't completely make sense either.

Or

Does it simply have to do with Dean?

Something's up, I agree. I don't believe Levin really went to the mat and very nearly cost MI its delegates just because NH went 2nd instead of 3rd in pre-super Tuesday voting. MI wasn't even one of the four states allowed to go early yet they were willing to risk relevancy? What work was he doing for Clinton...or Dean...or DLC?

[KSinTX]

14. madfloridian, are these brick-and-mortar friends or virtual ones?

Additionally, are they party insiders or regular folks? I think that here in cyberspace we get a sense of urgency over all of this, but out in the real world people are learning how to budget, figure out how to get rid of credit card debt and pay the mortgage while shopping smarter and finding friends with whom to carpool. I truly believe that most of these people who may have tuned in long enough to vote in the primary are not consumed with this as some of us are. When they're online, they're posting family photos to their albums, banking, job hunting and researching a family illness. Based on what I'm talking to people about, this isn't top of the list unless they happen to catch a segment of it on TV and discuss it in passing.

[madfloridian]

15. I speak of on the ground stuff.

It is very divided here, meaning here in our area.

Most of them have no clue of my posting, but they are irate I would even question the state Democrats.

It is bricks and mortar, as you put it

[KSinTX]

16. Not questioning your post

because I could see how this all might be more of an issue there than here. But really, I am so tired of people here believing they ARE the party (not aimed at you). This whole "you need us" online belies the fact that there are over 19 million Americans who voted this primary. A fraction resides here. Just sorta trying to make that point and am not speaking solely to the unique situations in Florida and Michigan.

Peace! You're my heroine (if you didn't see my earlier note to ya)

[madfloridian]

18. I knew what you meant.

Thanks. Peace. Yes, I agree. I think, am pretty sure, that was a lot of the goal lately by FL Dems...to make us "needed"...uh "necessary".

:hi:

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skidmore]

20. Florida need to fix itself. There is somthing wrong when

a state is so susceptible to manipulation by one party, and may I remind you that it was the Rs who caused this mess. Y'all need to clean house down there and quickly. Step up and work for change.

[madfloridian]

23. No it was not the R's who caused it. That is their excuse.

.

[Why Syzygy]

21. Feel used much?

Sorry. I hope they do pay. Keep telling the Truth.

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

24. Thank you. I totally agree with your analysis of the facts

I have been furious that Debbie the Whiner could NOT support local Florida Democratic candidates, was being groomed for a DCCC leadership role, and yet had to constantly whine and scream that the rest of us in the 48 states which played by the rules should bow to her demands because she and her state couldn't get it right.

Yes, I agree that this has been voter manipulation since Day One, and Florida leaders have a huge mess to clean up. I wish them luck but I don't have much sympathy for them.

[madfloridian]

25. I appreciate your post. I can not share my joy about Obama with friends locally...

I have so many mixed feelings today because we no longer can rationally discuss the issues locally. It's a historic time, be we can not talk about it in our area.

It's what happens when a state is chosen as a tool, and it is heartbreaking. It can only be fixed by a few.

[madfloridian]

26. Just heard them on MSNBC....they are thinking along the same lines

that I am right now. This may have been the start of a campaign for her to be VP.

[Jefferson23]

27. I just want to say I appreciate your input here at DU. Thank you!

As for the VP spot, I hope Obama spends some time thinking about this, to me it seems like blackmail.

[madfloridian]

29. Yes, I think so.

Think hard and long.

:hi:

[Jakes Progress]

39. Who's them?

MSNBC? As a source?

[NoFederales]

30. Several States have had that capacity to hold hostage and damage

its citizens; I am so worn out from the constant grind that I may blot out the word "vigilance" in all of the household dictionaries. Just kidding, but dammmmmmmmmmmn! I can sense your frustraton.

Tomorrow will be another sunrise to enjoy, and a grand day all around; we each make it so. Good evening to you.

NoFederales

[genna]

32. It is like being forced to participate in a meltdown and no one is willing to say it CAN'T HAPPEN.

[Orsino]

33. It sounds as though the problem is self-correcting, in part?

A close primary race like this one has some gray areas, and is open to spin such as the Clinton campaign used--but that strategy lives only as long as her popularity holds, and as long as she holds out for special treatment as a candidate for the nomination. That's ending now, I believe.

The deep-seated party corruption that drove the early primary, though...that's the heart of the matter, along with the failure of Floridian voters to police their party and that of the national party which failed to negotiate a solution within the rules--before having to issue punishment. I would hope that the 50% penalty will be a wake-up call, and that all parties will take the matter more seriously if anything like it happens again.

[SoxFan]

41. A modest proposal

We can start digging a moat from the St. John's River across to the Gulf Coast. Georgia and Alabama get to keep everything that's left of the Panhandle. The rest we seal off and turn into a combination retirement home/lunatic asylum owned and operated by Fidel Castro's third cousin.