To Obama supporters: you have two alternatives

[question everything]

It is clear that Obama will be the nominee. Has been clear to me for several months now, when I posted my first thoughts about how Obama supporters treat Hillary and her supporters.

You can be magnanimous and offer a real hand in peace. You can stop saying anything about her and her campaign and start working toward the general elections. And if she become Obama's running mate - and I doubt it - you should express your opinion on the ticket as a whole.

Or, you can continue to trash her and her supporters, using the offensive terms and vulgarity and see many stay home on election day or voting for McCain and see us losing and, of course, feel really good about trashing Clinton.

I think that the choice that you make will show what is more important to you: winning, realizing that politics is the art of compromise, or, like the many anti-war who stayed home in 1968 or who voted for Nader in 2000, "stand on principles" and let the world be damned. And, sometimes I think that many DUers would prefer the latter.

I lived in California in the 90s and saw how the Republicans lost one state office after another because they "stood on principles" and in the primaries voted for the rabid RWer instead for the more centrist one (Arnold would have never won in a primary, not with his pro-choice pro-gay rights stand).

Yes, DU is only a small corner of the world of politics, however I've realized that many opinions expressed her can also be found in the rest of the country.

I hope that logic will prevail and that we can all realize that winning is the most importnat.

[NC_Nurse]

1. How come it's always up to us? and him?

Some of the Hillary supporters have been pretty nasty here.

What are their alternatives?

[JVS]

4. theirs are: shut up or leave

[roguevalley]

119. if they will. they won't. I am sick of always being on the side that has

to act. i wish those who want to still argue about this move on to another board. its concluded no matter how awful she might want to still make it.

[asthmaticeog]

129. I'm bullish on shut up AND leave right about now.

[JVS]

130. I like leave. It accomplishes the shutting up automatically. Shut up depends on them staying quiet

[question everything]

9. Becaues it is the winner that should extend his hand in peace

and, by the way, Obama has been magnanimous and conciliatory in recent months. This is what is so sad: that his supporters did not follow his example.

When so many "pundits" and DUers called on her to step down, it was he who said she should continue to run as long as she wanted.

[mohc]

17. Yes it is

But it is the loser that must first accept defeat. Clinton has yet to do so, and in some ways asking for her support when she is still trying to win is insulting to her. No offer of reconciliation can be me made if all the evidence suggests it will be angrily rejected or scoffed at. Once Clinton graciously accepts defeat and signals she is open to bringing about unity, I am sure that is where Obama will step in.

[question everything]

24. Of course. First defeat than an offer of peace

I thought that I made this point clear.

[mohc]

81. Then we must have completely differing views of how the supporters have acted

And I have to admit that I must be at some level biased towards Obama, but I have seen far more willingness to greet former Clinton supporters with open arms from Obama supporters than I have seen willingness to embrace those open arms by Clinton supporters. Even now, all this concession talk is over the top. Let Clinton decide what she wants to do, when she concedes she concedes and at this point in the process all the speculation is a waste of time. I have very little doubt that the overwhelming majority of Obama supporters will react positively to Clinton supporters willing to join in defeating McCain.

[Blue_In_AK]

92. As a disinterested outsider

since I don't have a favorite, I would say that "some" Obama supporters here have been far more obnoxious than most Hillary supporters. But you are free to disagree, of course.

[mohc]

104. Certainly there are some

There will always be trouble makers on all sides, but one has to ignore those for comparison purposes. Each side will tend to focus on the other sides worst characters and meanwhile downplaying their own sides. Honestly, from my point of view the only reason why I think there is a great perception of trouble making coming from the Clinton supporters is that they are losing. I am sure they would be in a much better mood if they were winning, and Obama supporters would be far more obnoxious if they were losing. Its just how things work out.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

63. Is it more important to win or to feed one's ego? Is a person's ego that fragile?

That is the choice. It shows a great deal about ones's personality and strength of character.

It would be hard to imagine some of the great leaders in history: Lincoln, Ghandi, George Washington. etc. being as petulant as today's leaders.

[hokies4ever]

30. I refuse to be held hostage by Hillary supporters demanding appeasement

[NC_Nurse]

31. I've seen a lot of hands get smacked around here...

I have tried to stay out of it for the most part and just interact with positive posters. It seems there are a lot
of drive-by Hillary folks who dump in positive threads about Obama. It sure would help us get together if that sort of shit was
over.

[polmaven]

121. Unlike any Obama supporters

who post nothing but sweetness and light in any positive thread about Hillary, right?

[Cheap_Trick]

108. well, it's clear hillary's lemmings are following HER example

crystal clear.

[PoliticalAmazon]

118. Not if vanquished is still brandishing a hatchet. n/t

[DJ13]

11. Good points

Throughout history the losing side typically is the one who needs to compromise and reach out to the winner.

Just more of the "we dont want to hurt her feelings" stuff (which is ironic, as her supporters like to say how "tough" she is).

[question everything]

29. No, no touchy-feeling thing, but realistic approach

We do want to win, there are close to 50% Democratic voters who will be unhappy, let's reach over to them.

After all, we did help build Germany and Japan after WWII, right?

[Tom Rinaldo]

110. It doesn't. And Obama doesn't have to win either.

There is nothing that Clinton supporters can do or say now that realistically increases her chances of winning the Presidency in November. A Clinton supporter can piss off Obama supporters and that won't make it harder for Clinton to win, since Clinton won't be running. Obama will be, which means there is a different equation. An Obama supporter pissing off Clinton supporters can make it harder for Obama to win.

[question everything]

132. This is the realistic approach

and then there was Obama speech earlier this evening and what an example he gave for reaching out.

This has been for several weeks now. He showed class while his supporters here on DU showed crass.

[democracy1st]

114. hell look at hill she's acted like a plum fool at times i agree with you

[Bake]

124. Because your guy won?

What part of that don't you get? Your guy won the nomination. He hasn't won the general election yet, so no, you don't get to sit on your ass and be nasty to Democratic voters, no matter how superior you might feel to them.

Geez, grow the hell up!

Bake

[grassfed]

2. let it kitchen sink

[jsmirman]

79. my bad- got the wrong person

similar user name, different person.

[bowens43]

3. why do hillary supporters think that it's up to Obama and his supporters

to make peace? Hillary and her followers dragged this thing into the sewer and spent the next few months hurling shit.
The way I see it, hillary supporters should be making the effort. Frankly, if a hillary supporter doesn't understand that voting for McCain or sitting out isn't in their best interests then they really aren't bright enough to be reasoned with.

[question everything]

19. Because this is how generous winners behave

The comments here show how short sighted (or, I hope, young and inexperienced) so many DUers are: it was clear that Obama was going to win but the attacks on Hillary and her supporters continue.

[juno jones]

62. Yeah, put on that much vaunted clothespin

that most have been willing to bear no matter what, and vote 'D'.

[Occam Bandage]

5. Clinton supporters: you have two alternatives.

1. Support Barack Obama.
2. Support John McCain.

If you base that decision on how nice people on an anonymous message board are, then God save your soul.

[finecraft]

14. You win the award for the most rational post of the day

Couldn't agree more. :)

[grantcart]

22. and even the most bileful hateful people in DU that have disparaged Obama at every turn

are still faced with the this choice. It's time to decide to continue to be petty or not.

[kiranon]

74. Or sit this one out.

Many will do that. I will support Obama but many will not.

[Fox Mulder]

91. Sitting this one out is the same as supporting John McCain.

[tammywammy]

77. Thank you!

The day I start basing my voting decision on comments by anonymous people on the internets is the day I log off DU forever.

[Fox Mulder]

90. Best post of the day.

:thumbsup:

[endarkenment]

6. I welcome all who are getting on board. No questions asked.

The disruptors: not so much.

[dchill]

7. Please stop pissing on us.

It's not our fault.

[OzarkDem]

8. Tell Obama

that if he wants to win the nomination, he has to sell his candidacy to the 50% of Dem voters who aren't with him.

He has to give 50% of Democratic Party voters a reason to support him.

I doubt he will be able to do it. He only understands how to divide and conquer, manipulate the electoral system. He doesn't know how to appeal to a wide swath of voters.

[endarkenment]

10. So you have to be begged and pleaded with to do what is right?

[OzarkDem]

16. He hasn't convinced me anything he stands for is right

and no, I would automatically default to supporting him, just because he's ahead in the delegate count.

I don't trust him. He doesn't stand for any of the issues I support and he doesn't have enough experience. If he wants my vote he has to convince me.

Some of us are not so gullible. Some of us are concerned about issues, commitment and experience.

[Independent-Voter]

44. Well, piss off then, and have a nice day!

There's precious little difference between HRC and Obama's platforms, and he has more years of elected experience. Any other questions?

[smoogatz]

65. Once a DLCer, always a DLCer?

That how it works?

[endarkenment]

70. Odd that as there are few policy differences between him and Clinton.

You need to be a bit more specific on these 'things' that Obama stands for that 'are not right'.

[TahitiNut]

109. It's as plain as the nose on his face ...

... and everywhere else he has skin. :evilgrin:

[Flying Dream Blues]

113. I'm afraid you're right...some of these folks who "disagree" with him can't seem

to come up with any specific reasons why. Hmmm.

[Kierkegaard]

20. Let the healing begin.

:eyes:

[Lucky 13]

27. I got news for you, sweetheart.

He doesn't HAVE to do anything. And 50% is a HUGE over-estimation. Most Hillary supporters are already backing him save a few nutbags like Harriet Christian. And he neither wants nor needs people like her.

[NatBurner]

35. 50% is very very subjective

it assumes a LOT

[LisaM]

48. You're right. I simply don't understand how Hillary gets accused of being negative

when she is the candidate who has been most demonized (I was still reading today on HuffPo that Hillary is a "monster" - and today there was a "ding dong the _itch is gone" thread started HERE). The fact is that she is much more a victim of a negative smear campaign, to the point where her reputation, her personality, and her character have been trashed. I have not seen this done reciprocally. No one's calling Obama racist names, or a "monster" or anything of the sort.

When O supporters realize the negativity directed towards Hillary has been widespread and systemic, then there will be a chance of unifying. Until then, not so much.

And as far as winning and losing, and comparing this to 2004 go, this is not similar. This race is MUCH closer, and is a statistical tie. It's not a landslide and it's not even like Kerry/Dean. This is a very close race and you can't pretend that you don't have close to 50% of the Democratic party who is being disaffected.

I keep hearing that today is "all about Obama". Wrong. His moment will be at the convention.

[question everything]

95. He already started

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x132052

[Catherina]

101. Who are you trying to kid?The day Obama appeals to you will be a cold day in hell. n/t

[VolcanoJen]

12. We actually have one choice tonight.

TO CELEBRATE!

:toast: :toast: :toast:

Let us have our moment, we've worked our asses off for this. Tomorrow, the next day, the next week, we'll talk about all that stuff. But we've won fair and square and we deserve this, thank you very much.

Tonight is not the night to be walking on eggshells among Hillary supporters. Fuggetaboutit.

[apocalypsehow]

13. Nope - exactly 100% wrong. It's up to the HRC boosters to join the winning team, not the other way

around. Especially after the vindictive, vicious, and racist nastiness of some of those same vocal boosters.

[question everything]

41. Obviously, winning in November is not that important to you

I have news for you: Obama is already "wooing" the Clinton supporters. In the past few weeks, Obama already showed a conciliatory tone when he did not demand that she stepped down, the way DUers have done.

[apocalypsehow]

49. I have news for you: Obama is our nominee and he will be the next president of the United States.

You're free to keep sniveling around and weeping us up a big 'ole puddle of tears, of course; but I'd suggest you just get over it.

[azmouse]

15. I will not beg HRC supporters to do the right thing.

They are adults. They can pull up their adult panties and figure this out on their own.

[OzarkDem]

21. "Right thing" is a relative term

You may percieve of Obama as the "right" candidate, but half Dem voters don't. Their opinion is just as important as yours.

[apocalypsehow]

32. No, it is not "relative": He won, she lost. It is really that simple. Get over it. n/t.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

:nopity:

[azmouse]

42. I'm assuming the 'ignored' you responded to

doesn't want to vote for Obama. I wonder why they are still on DU then?

[apocalypsehow]

55. It was just more standard hot, smelly air drifting in from the Ozarks, if you catch my drift...

;-)

[VolcanoJen]

57. I wonder how traffic is?

;-)

[leftynyc]

66. Sounding like Dick Cheney

is unlikely to win you any points with anyone on this board. You've learned dicks lessons well.

[apocalypsehow]

84. I need to get me an audio add-on in my sig for the cry-babies that plays an apt theme song...

"Now you say you're lonely,
You cried the whole night through.
Well you can cry me a river,
Cry me a river,
I cried a river over you.

Now you say you're sorry,
For being so untrue.
Well you can cry me a river,
Cry me a river,
I cried a river over you.

You drove me, nearly drove me,
Out of my head;
While you never shed a tear.

Remember, I remember,
All that you said;
Told me love was too plebian,
Told me you were through with me-

And Now you say you love me,
Well, just to prove you do,
Come on and cry me a river,
Cry me a river,

I cried a river over you..."

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[leftynyc]

100. I'm not sure what that song

has to do with you channeling dick. And the day I let anonymous internet posters have any effect on me at all, I may as well pack it in.

[madwivoter]

38. I said the exact same thing yesterday..

I will not beg Clinton supporters to support Obama, they know what their choices are and the consequences that can result from their choice.

I haven't been on the "Hillary should drop out" bandwagon, but, I have been very quick to judge her (Clinton) and her campaign, all for good reasons imho.

[azmouse]

46. Exactly. The ball is their court.

They know what is at stake in this election.
To say at this point that they will not vote for Obama is saying they want McBush as pResident and that they just loved the last 8 years.

[Lucky 13]

18. I will stop saying ANYTHING negative about her as soon as...

... she concedes or suspends her campaign. Until then, every moment she hangs around is undermining him and a pathetic attempt to steal the spot light.

The Giants didn't try to shake the Patriots hands until the game was OVER.

[VolcanoJen]

28. Oh hell yes

Very well put, Lucky 13!!!!

:bounce: :bounce:
:yourock:

[Lucky 13]

47. back at 'cha sister.

:toast:

[City Lights]

36. Bingo! nt

[crankychatter]

23. I don't do that shit anyhow - but NO ONE is more responsible for unity than the losing candidate nt

.

[Faygo Kid]

25. Aw, Jeez.

[Jersey Devil]

26. Bill Clinton: "Politics ain't beanbag"

You expected that while the Clinton campaign was throwing the "kitchen sink" at Obama and his supporters they were just supposed to politely turn the other cheek?

As for who you vote for in November, it is up to you to do the right thing and no one else

[SoonerPride]

33. IOW "kiss my ass or I'll be pouty and whine."

How about, "support the Democratic nominee or kiss your ass goodbye?"

This is about war and death and our ecnomomy tanking FOREVER and not some whiny ass "people were mean to me on the internettubes."

Grow the fuck up!

Elections are important shit about life and death, not some game of fucking pattycake.

We have to take our country back and if you or anyone else wnats to sit that out because your feelers got hurt in the primary battle, then you are not worhy of my time nor energy.

Get on board or get the fuck out of our way.

[Beregond2]

Very magnanimous of you to lecture to the winners

on how they should behave. We are not the ones at fault here, and I'll be damned if I'm going to bend over backwards to accomodate people who have spent the past three months doing everything possible to wreck this party. An Obama win is NOT dependent on the votes of the shrill minority of Hillary supporters who have sucked all the joy and energy out of what should be one of the greatest moments in the history of the Democratic Party. Yes, a minority. The majority of them have been civil and sensible. Unfortunately, they haven't been the most active here. To those true Hillary Democrats, I send my condolences and my appreciation of their common sense. But to those others, who care nothing for America, for women, for liberal politics, for anything except getting their Chosen One into the White House, I say: dry up and blow away. Go join some cult, where your irrational fanaticism will be appreciated.

[Catherina]

98. That's precisely how I feel. Thank you for expressing it so clearly

[susankh4]

34. Good luck with that.

But I ain't holding my breath for any outreach from the Obamaphiles.

I'm back to working on local offices. Gonna need a strong Dem congress for the next four years.

[Adelante]

37. Enough with the lectures

She hasn't conceded anything. When she does, we can talk.

[JackORoses]

39. We do not have to grovel before Hillary and her supporters just to gain their help.

If they are true Democrats, they will support the Nominee.

And if they aren't, then they were never on our side in the first place.

[eShirl]

40. What? No congratulations?

[peace13]

103. I hear that! n/t

[RiverStone]

43. I offer both hands in peace

Obama needs Hillary supporters to win. I see no reason whatsoever to diss Hillary after she concedes.

Lets just hope that indeed, a concession and support of Obama speech is on the way tonight.

[AtomicKitten]

45. I'm going to take today to enjoy Obama's victory.

[VolcanoJen]

52. So am I, darlin'!!

This moment belongs to us. It may never come again, so celebrate and enjoy it! Savor it!!!

Don't let anyone rob it from you, from me, from our party, from our nation.

:toast:

[AtomicKitten]

54. A most heartfelt "cheers."

:toast:

[City Lights]

50. I also hope that logic will prevail.

And I see nothing logical about letting anonymous posters on the Internet influence my vote.

[polmaven]

128. I agree to a point.

But don't you think that the worst of them....the loudest....if they are like this here, are also like this when they are offline as well?

I assume that many are volunteering for Senator Obama, making phone calls, handing out leaflets, etc. That kind of activity will increase for the General. If they start with some of the foul language, name calling, and absolute disdain for anyone who doesn't hold their point of view, 100%, with no reservations or questions, they will do more harm than good.

I have accepted that my first choice will not be taking the oath of office on 1/20/09. It is vital that a Democrat is taking that oath, however, so I will do all I can to be sure that happens. That means I will not trash talk Senator Obama, but I will also not trash talk anyone who needs to be convinced of that.

Perhaps it's time - after the celebration - for the Obama supporters to take their lead from the Senator's own words and his own demeanor yesterday.

[joshcryer]

51. You are one of the most honerable and respectful posters on this forum. The responses are why I...

...stopped coming here. The responses in this thread illustrate the complete and utter insanity of people in this election cycle.

When Obama picks Hillary as his VP these people are going to go insane.

[Ichingcarpenter]

53. Thanks Hitler you sure you don't want Poland too?

I have 6 Clinton Voters voting for Obama in the fall
I really don't need your lecture or demands.


Lee demands from Grant at Appomattox !!
Cornwallis demands from Washington at Yorktown.


I will continue to attack DLC anti-progressive
policies and posts.

[cbayer]

56. Well, it looks like you got your answer as to what choice many will make.

It's sad. I am curious to see how many of these people slink away when they have no one to fight with anymore. It seems to be the reason some are here.

I'm with you and am supporting those that make the first choice and starving those that make the second.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. I prefer the latter option.

I didn't "stay home" in '68 but I sure as hell didn't vote for Humpty or Nixon.

Everybody votes their "principles".

[zulchzulu]

59. This whole point about "trashing" Hillary Clinton and her supporters...

It's not "trashing" when you have to defend Obama against baseless, worthless, deceptive lies and innuendo from the Hillary Clinton camp and those who would fuel the nonsense.

It's called returning fire against bullshit. I would suppose that you wouldn't just let people say whatever they wanted about Obama and just let those that support him just sit back and say nothing.

There were many times where Obama supporters would defend Hillary Clinton if some accusations were made that made no sense or were out of bounds. It was very rare to see a Hillary Clinton supporter or the candidate herself do likewise.

That said, it doesn't matter now. Join the Obama campaign and let's beat McCain. We're not going to shine your shoes or give you special treatment any more than we would do for those that have already joined in on their own initiative. We don't owe you anything.

Let's take it to the streets or please get out of the way.

[KoKo]

125. And, why do you automatically assume it's Hillary's Campaign? You think Repugs had no interest in

this Primary? Seems I've seen nothing but links to Politico, Drudge and other (formerly known as RW Web Sites) for most of the Hillary "revelations" here on DU. That it still continues does make me wonder...and you've been here long enough to know about RW Manipulation, Swift Boat Tactics and other things they do to turn Dems against their own.

[Tarheel_Dem]

60. The answer can be found in post #8. As long as these "supporters" are

allowed to run loose, there will never be the unity you speak of. And I, for one, don't kiss ass. How do you reason with someone like poster #8?

[smoogatz]

61. Nope. We get to do a victory dance.

We've earned it by having to put up with all the ridiculous slurs and race-baiting and bullshit talking points and condescending, self-serving concern-trolling. We do a victory dance tonight, or tomorrow, or whenever everybody decides it's "official" (even though the outcome hasn't really been in doubt since February). That's how it works: winners get to gloat a little bit. THEN, when we're done gloating and when WE decide we're ready to get down to business, we'll make the nice conciliatory noises the losers are already insisting we MUST make NOW, are we're all dooooooooooooomed!!!111!!

[Eurobabe]

80. see below

[peace13]

64. It is amazing how Hill and her 'supporters' can turn today into a day about them!

Really.....GO OBAMA..you did a great job and tonight is the night to show the country that you have been successful. While the TVs are tuned in let the people know that you are going to work for everyone to bring this country off of her knees! Be assured that you gave Hill the opportunity to bow out gracefully and then take the applause that you are due.

To those who have been Hill supporters from day one I know that this is very painful but be aware that many of us have been through the pain of losing a favorite. You too will heal. Take a minute to reflect on the hand you extended when others were suffering and then take a deep breath and join us out here in the world.

[scheming daemons]

67. It may have been clear to YOU for several months... but your compadres are still resisting....

Like the Japanese soldiers years after WWII was over.

[otohara]

68. Watch Hill Supporters BOO The Hell Out of Obama's Win

tonight when Hillary speaks - hysteria will break out and the booing will continue.

So how is it we're supposed to be all nice again? We saw the nasty display of some Hillary supporters after the DNC meeting the other day, and we're the one's that are supposed to be all sugar and sweet? To quote Hillary, I just don't understand, I just don't.

[chill_wind]

89. Will be a very interesting point to watch. n/t

[A-Schwarzenegger]

You lost me at: "To Obama supporters: you have two alternatives"

:* :radio:

[Zodiak]

82. Yup...the ole false dichotomy

...still a logical fallacy, even if Hillary is involved.

[chill_wind]

87. Reminds of Hillary's offer to include Obama on her ticket when she was about 28 states behind.

eom

[Skidmore]

69. A reminder that hands extended in peace must be shaken in response.

I've seen a lot of people trying to make peace and be shouted down, mocked, and cursed for attempting. Now, I think some of the more egregious examples of this are probably the the work of RW trolls (a half a dozen intransigents, to be sure). I don't understand the "anger of older white women" that was being pushed on another thread (and fit that demographic). I thought that all the years we worked for equality, we did so to act as equals. I chose my candidate and I would expect him to behave with dignity and concede with grace. I'm looking forward to the cooling down to be on both sides, as is a reasonable expectation.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

71. If you base your vote on a message board, you shouldn't vote at all.

[mzmolly]

72. I honestly think it's up to us all to embrace our nominee and Hillary

for a well fought race.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jsmirman]

75. If the Hillary folks can move to a position of support for Obama, I can surely move on

I don't want her on the ticket and I don't want to hear any more whining, but once it's done, what's done is done. Between now and November, the future is all that is important.

I'll never look at the Clintons the same way, but that would be irrelevant in the present I suggest.

[jefferson_dem]

76. Sure. I would like to put all the hate and division behind us and unite to take on McSame

and the repukes. I not only want to win... We must win!

Let's do this~! You with me "question everything"?

[Eurobabe]

78. Why can't you just let us be HAPPY??

Jesus F'ing Christ!!

This is the first time that I have picked a winner since 1992 (2 terms)!!!

:mad: :mad:

[jsmirman]

83. Guys, being magnanimous isn't that hard. I hope she becomes irrelevant

except in repairing the damage that she has caused, but if that happens, why fight a battle that's over when we have a more important, larger one to win?

I won't forget what the Clintons did, but I won't continue to harp on it in months to come. That's pointless and counterproductive.

[totodeinhere]

85. I doubt if anything anyone says at DU will have any effect whatsoever on the general election result

DU is not the center of the universe. The number of people who read this board is a drop in the bucket compared to the whole electorate. I doubt very seriously if any Hillary bashing on this board will do any appreciable harm to Obama's election chances in November. So as far as I'm concerned, it's bash away.

[Prophet 451]

86. Yes, because Clinton supporters are too damn petty...

...to put their hurt feelings aside for the good of the country? I doubt it, I suspect most (not all but most) will put their pettiness aside and punch the button with the (D) next to it. I recognise that most of humanity is pretty dumb but if Clinton supporters are really so dim that they'll place their injured pride above the country's future, they deserve President McCain.

Reconciliation has to come from both sides so it would help if the Hillary supporters would stop bashing Obama (and from my POV, they're been more vicious than the majority of Obama supporters). It's very difficult to mend fences when the other side is still kicking them down.

And incidently, it would help no end if Hillary would stop encouraging them and just admit that she's damn well lost and sexism had little to do with it.

[cstanleytech]

88. Hmm odd, from my viewpoint

(keep in mind I voted for Edwards) it was mainly the Obama supporters who were more nasty on the forum, course I could very well be wrong but that whole incident with RFK and the reaction from alot of Obama supporters in distorting it might have influenced my opinion there I admit.
Regardless though, I will probably vote for Obama, would have prefered Edwards but Obama will do as would Hillary have if she had won, the important thing though is to keep McCain from getting the office and then we all have to hope Obama can do a good job.

[Prophet 451]

94. I guess it's subjective

I suppose it's going to be based on personal observation for both of us (I was one of those who was outraged by the RFK remark).

I'm a lukewarm Obama supporter but after Edwards dropped out, I spent ages thinking either of them would do and only came in Obama's camp with that speech on race relations because it was the first time I could remember any politician trying to communicate nuanced thought to the public. Obviously, if the delegate totals were reversed, I'd be supporting Hillary at this point. Neither of them are as progressive as I'd like but I'm hoping the movement Obama's built, which is very progressive, will effectively force him into governing left.

[ronnykmarshall]

93. You're kidding, right?

One thing I'll say is that thank god political supporters on DU don't represent supporters as a whole.

As far as DU goes, I'm back to the Lounge. The rest can rot. When my star is up in Feb 09 .... See ya!

I never thought I'd see this place sink lower than in did in 2004. But did 10,000 times more.

[Lisa0825]

96. I disapprove when I see an Obama supporter (or phony)

being rude to a polite Hillary supporter. I have no problem with it when I see someone respond rudely when a Hillary supporter has been just as rude.

The fewer attacks that come from the Hillary side, the fewer attacks there will be in response.

[Hamlette]

97. oh please! The ONLY time Obama supporters trashed her or her supporters is in self defense

she ran a dirty campaign. DIRTY.

As long as she stays quiet and/or plays nice, so will we.

[and-justice-for-all]

99. No matter what..

WE CAN NOT HAVE ANOTHER 4 YEARS OF */DICK POLITICS!

[MilesColtrane]

102. I will be civil to the Hillary supporters who are smart enough to see that this race is over.

...and, who will vote Democratic in November.

Until Hillary Clinton concedes, I will continue to point out her character flaws, and the damage she is wreaking for Obama in the general election.

[janet118]

105. No sulking, no regrets

I originally supported John Edwards. Maybe I haven't been reading the "right" posts, but I haven't noticed all this "abuse" that some Clinton supporters refer to so often. I think there have been mean things said about both Obama and Clinton. Both groups of supporters have members who have posted some nasty stuff (you know who you are). Frankly, I have actually seen a lot more reaching out from Obama supporters than Clinton supporters.

The candidates themselves have been relatively nice to each other since the Ohio/Pennsylvania "kitchen sink" strategy came to an end. Obama, in particular, has been very gracious towards Sen. Clinton since the numbers made the election a done deal, even though her continued campaign must have drained some of his support and credibility. He's been patient and kind and just kept on working the primaries. I'm no fortune teller, but I can tell that as soon as Sen. Clinton declares defeat, Sen. Obama will immediately reach out to her and her supporters.

After that hand of reconciliation is offered, it's up to Sen. Clinton and her supporters to take a deep breath, take some time off, and then get out there and work their butts off for the Democratic ticket. The petulance of the few Clinton supporters who say they will not vote or, even worse, will vote for McCain or Nader, is indefensible.

I was a Dean supporter. I thought he had been disrespected and stabbed in the back by the media and many of his fellow Democrats. Yet, Dean didn't sulk. He stuck with us and told us that we had to stay and fight for the Democratic nominee. So, after Dean left the race I took some time off, pulled myself together, and worked like a dog for John Kerry. I did not wait for Kerry supporters to "reach out" to me. I traveled to neighboring states and held signs and made calls because I knew how important the election was for me and my family. All of the states I worked in went for Kerry - although two had been iffy swing states.

I believe that Kerry was robbed of the election. I know that we got a huge Democratic voter turnout and that there were some crazy things going on in Ohio and Florida on election day. I was very depressed on Nov. 3, 2004. Still, I would have been inconsolable had I thrown in the towel after Gov. Dean left and not put everything I had into putting a Democrat into the White House. As it is, I have no regrets. I did my best.

I hope that Hillary's supporters will do the same. We are either all in this together or we are handing this election to John McCain - the same Bozo who left his first wife because she was overweight, who vows to appoint Supreme Court justices like Scalia, who will let this war rage on eating up lives and resources, and who thinks the Bush years were just great. Believe me, if you sit this one out or vote for the creep described above, you will hate yourself on November 5th.

[Vattel]

106. It's not the heat, it's the stupidity

I don't mind being insulted at an anonymous blog. The nasty remarks and name-calling are fine with me. In fact, some of the insults are even kind of funny. But the real problem is that so many Obama supporters have taken part in smearing Clinton. Even the slimy NY Post and most of the media backed off the RFK silliness. But not many of Obama's vocal supporters at DU. They ignore all standards of decency and insist without proof that there was something horribly wrong about Clinton mentioning RFK's assassination in the context of pointing out that many primaries have continued into June. And I would be surprised if they come around to a more reasonable view after the primary is over. Clinton supporters should support Obama, but they shouldn't be expected to unite with the paranoid Clinton-haters.

[MessiahRp]

107. No offense but Obama has been more than civil and generous towards her the past few weeks

Commenting on how she's made it better for his daughters.... I dare say nobody from the Clinton camp, her supporters nor Hillary herself has been even near as kind to him.

Rp

[Flying Dream Blues]

115. He's been nothing but gracious all the way through, and certainly she can't say the same. nt

[KoKo]

111. Well Said....the Viciousness over the Internet Sites only hurts Democrats chances

and it's time to pull together. If there's still viciousness with folks calling Hillary a "SoreLoserman" quoting the Politico, Drudge and other RW Sources as reasons for their continued hatred of Hillary ....then we should consider that those posters are not interested in Demoratic Unity...but in something else. Something like sowing dissention for a close election where the DRE Machines and other tactics make this election a squeaker. We know what close elections do to Dems...and we know what the "Dark Forces" will due to any Dem Candidate. We'd better learn to make peace with the Clintons because we are going to need them on our side. We will have to put up with bedfellows we don't like to make even the small changes to turn our Country around...and create a foundation to do it. The DLC is still part of the party and there's no way we can turn them out of it entirely but we can work to "minimize" their influence while we get their help. We will need their help to win....much as I would wish otherwise.

[TexasObserver]

112. No, Hell NO! This is part of losing. THEY have to get over it.

THEY have to grow up and do what the losers in the primary have always done. Support the ticket. It's time for Hillary and her supporters to stop thinking they're special. They aren't. They had a medicore candidate who lost. Either get on board with the ticket, or get out of the way. That's their choice.

[democracy1st]

116. got their dayum nerves don't they

[TexasObserver]

120. A black man is being nominated for president. Can they respect that for one friggin day?

There is a time when we all have to stand back and see others honored. This is Obama's day. It's not Hillary's day, and yet look at what she and her supporters are doing. They're whining about HER and what they deserve. They want their asses kissed. They want her on the ticket. They want this to be her night.

[democracy1st]

131. if that had happened the other way,it would be a travesty

[dcindian]

117. The choice is clear and it is a choice you have to make.

I can't make that choice for you and I sure the hell am not going to grovel for you to make the right choice. A grown man or woman of voting age needs to consider what a McCain presidency will mean to America's youth and old alike.

If you are so shallow that you expect others to grovel at your feet in order to make a moral decision then you are already too far gone.

Want social security to disappear be a baby
Want another eight years of war and torture be a baby
Want another eight years of record debt be a baby
Want another eight years of big brother then be a baby


Or grow up and make up your own mind no one needs to beg you for it.

[Arugula Latte]

122. So many demands, so much bullying from Hillary's supporters.

The campaign is almost over, thank the nonexistent deity, and when she drops out officially then she will finally become irrelevant to the nomination and of little concern here. However, she has been on the attack for months, and we were repeatedly told to shut up and sit on our hands, even though our guy was winning.

[polmaven]

123. Nice try, but apparently

the children are still in charge.

[vaberella]

126. I'm surprised by this post, jsut really surprised

I'm new to this thread and I have seen crap coming from BOTH ends. This is not one sided as you make it seem. I have seen the other Clinton threads in which Obama is demonized and mistreated, you can go to noquarter and see to the extent people will go to turn Obama and his family into pariahs.

That being said, and I'm not defending any group but pointing out the situation as I've seen, I believe Clinton supporters also need to take responsibility and look at the facts as they are presented. I have seen a lot of crap from both the media and Clinton supporters that seem to automatically put blame on Obama. It's like a diversion tactic.

However, I do agree with you that there should be a peace of sorts that need to be established. But the peace shouldn't come from some self-righteous indignant poster who is a Clinton supporter laying blame on the Obama supporters of this thread.


It should however be a sincere goal towards the end of McCain. If you all (the Clinton supporters you speak for) realy care about our country and our future such as our boys and girls dieing in an unnecessary war then you'd put aside a ridiculous threat of either voting for McCain or staying home while votings take place. It shows no sincerity.

You issue a peace offering and maybe an apology and one will be offered back. I do think it was impressive of you to start the thread but your word choice is damning to both you, your supporters and also a slap in the face to the people you're extending the olive branch.

All in all both groups of supporters are too blame and none if above the other or guileless. Both have said awful things and expressed disgusting and divisive words; now is the time to move forward but with respecting both ends.

[crankychatter]

127. First Black nominee with a 50/50 shot at POTUS... but DON'T CELEBRATE

IT MIGHT HURT SOMEBODY'S FEELERS

[slinkerwink]

133. *sigh* I just wish Hillary had been more gracious in her speech.

[Eurobabe]

134. If a HRC DUer is going to stay home or vote for McInsanity

because they are offended/mad/victimized by Obama's supporters and what some have said here: I suggest they seek mental help now, because they will need it to cope with the MCan't adminstration.

To those who have offered the Olive Branch in good faith, I say let's get this party started. We've got an old geezer to defeat in November! :applause: