Do female politicians get different treatment?

[Yotun]

I have been left wondering over these accusation of 'sexism' in the MSM. We call Bush a chimp, we make fun of Rush for his weight, we say all sorts of things about Mccain, we make fan of male politicians for their haircuts, their moustaches, when they are bold, when they are tall, when they are short, when their ears are to big, we call them assholes, dicks, bastards, and every name imaginable.

Try to call Hillary 'anything' and you'll get OBAMA supporters bitching about how 'disrespectful' and 'not adding to the conversation' you are, and Hillary supporters crying sexism for days on end. I've never seen the press calling Hillary names or anything similar. I haven't seen them manufacture controversies like they did with Obama and his lapel pins, or bittergate.

It seems that for all the cries of feminism and gender empowerement, there are 'some' - and I make sure to say 'some'- women, who feel they have the right to be treated better because they are women, and that if somebody attacks them they are being sexist. I wonder if many of those women who went at the committee aren't just women who never bothered with elections and politics before until a woman run, and are somehow 'shocked' that in politics people don't lie down and let you walk over them because you are a 'lady'.

I honestly can't undestood all this 'righteous anger' by white women because of how 'Hillary was treated'. For fucks sake, if it was any other candidate, they'd be a laughing stock by now, and would have the most ridiculous names made about them.

[goldcanyonaz]

1. Welcome back!!

[Yotun]

4. Was I away? And do I know you?

[roguevalley]

22. not if they want to be taken seriously.

[cynatnite]

2. I wouldn't say constantly, but she's gotten an undo fair amount of criticism...

I think it is because she's a woman. No male candidate has gotten the kind of scrutiny she has. It's a mix, IMO. She's a powerful senator, a former-first lady and a women front runner..well, she was considered a front runner there for a while. No other woman has those credentials. She stood out far differently than women and men combined. This is why she has been such a target.

Looking back on the race many remarks have been sexist in nature...not all, IMO. Also, while I think sexism played a role in her not winning...it wasn't the major reason she lost.

From where I am sitting, her and Obama ran two completely different races which is why the voting talley has been so close. This is also why I think her and Obama need each other and why they would win by a large margin should she be the VP.

[Yotun]

3. Tell me which remarks were sexist... Tell me what unfair scritiny she recieved... What manufactured

controversies has she faced in this campaign?

[cynatnite]

6. Oh, come on...you don't know?

Where have you been?

Have you heard the things said by Tweety and other talking heads? It's been going on since she's been in the public eye. It's gotten better in the last few months, IMO.

[Yotun]

11. Yes I've been hearing the things said by Tweety... what did he say that was sexist?

[cynatnite]

12. Try media matters for starters...

:eyes:

[Yotun]

16. If they are so obvious why don't you give me some examples?

[samdogmom]

5. Ummmm. Actually...her criticism was rightly deserved.

Not sexist AT ALL! I'm a 50+ yr. old white woman (her base) and I DO NOT SEE SEXISM. I just see a plea for COMPETENCE! (She lacks this in multiple areas!)

[cynatnite]

10. Let see...what about Tweety...

when he said that Hillary only got where she is because Bill cheated on her. People felt sorry for her. What about when she got attacked for crying when assholes like Romeny and Boehner got away with it without anyone saying a word.

There is a lot more, but that's just what at the top of my head.

I do understand why people have issues with Hillary. Her stances, her votes and positions on some issues have been criticized...as they should be. I haven't agreed with them all, but I know sexist attacks when I see them. There are plenty of men who do NOT like women in power. My grandmother says it's because it makes their penises shrivel up. :)

[Yotun]

14. Why do you think thosa are not valid? Should they not be discussed because they are uncomfortable?

Do we not criticise Bush as being where he is because of his dad? That Cheneys policies are affected by his oil connections? Do we not discuss the effect the Kennedy name has on its family members? Do we not criticize the obvious political theater of some politicians? Has Obama not been criticizes as only being where he is because he can talk well, and that he has no substance?

This is exactly what this thread is about- some things are out of bounds for Hillary, because people will cry sexism against it. You may find it uncomfortable to contemplate, but many people believe that HIllary IS where she is because people felt sorry for her when Bill cheated on her, just like many people believe Bush is where he is because of his father. You cannot dictate what can be discussed and what opinions can be put forth because you feel uncomfortable with them, and call everything you don't agree with as sexist. I happen to agree with both sentiments that you attribute to Matthews above? Does that make me sexist? Does that mean that because you disagree, that I am automatically 'wrong' and that those sentiments should not be discussed on the media?

Why should your girl get special treatment?

[cynatnite]

17. So you think Hillary got where she is without hard work...

and that Bill's affair got her in the Senate? I consider it sexist because it's men who perpetuate that notion about women. It's saying women aren't smart enough to accomplish anything on their own hard work.

Then men crying and no one says anything. They're hailed as being sensitive. A woman cries...and she's weak. It's a stereotypical antiquated double standard.

That's why they are sexist.

What you mentioned are not for male reasons. Family connections and money does not make for a sexist argument.

I'm really surprised you don't see this.

[Yotun]

19. Whatever I BELIEVE, I do not dictate my belief to ANYBODY, and do not call people who discuss their

own valid beliefs as sexist. I am sure there are many Republicans who feel differently than me about Bush, and I certainly won't have them accuse me of being anything because I hold my beliefs.

You demand that the media not make valid criticism of Clinton, and because you don't like them and Hillary is a woman, you call them sexist- when YOU are the sexist, for demanding special treatment. I happen to think that it is a VERY valid argument that part of where Hillary is has to do with Bill, and his actions, and the crying criticism has nothing to do with Hillary appearing weak, but the fact that she was oviously playing political theater. Now, you may think I am wrong, but you 'demand' that valid arguments and opinions don't be expressed in the media, because you happen to disagree with them!!! Not to mention that 'nothing' you have mentioned so far is sexist. They are merely criticisms of Clinton that are not directly related to her 'sex'. For you anything criticizing her is 'sexist'.

[cynatnite]

24. I never said for the media to not make valid criticisms of Hillary...

and you know it. I never even said she should get special treatment. Where on earth are getting this? An alternate universe?

It's one thing to criticize Hillary on issues, statements and decisions she's made in regards to her political position. Some of what she has said and done I don't agree...same goes for Obama. Those are valid.

[Yotun]

27. But the examples of sexism you gave are in fact valid areas for discussion that is the point

See the examples of 'real' sexism that I gave in the other post.

[Yotun]

25. To expland, let me give you an example.

If Chris Mathhews said 'Hillary is a woman, and women are weak negotiators, so we can't support her' that would be sexist.

If Chris Matthews said 'We can't support Hillary because we can't trust them women with their hormonal imbalances' that would be sexist.

If Chris Matthwes said 'Women are so sensitive, how can we trust Hillary Clinton to negotiate with our enemies and not break down' that would be sexist.

If Chris Matthews said 'The job of the president is too demanding, and weak are weaker than men, how can Hillary Clinton keep up to that schedule' that would be sexist.

Those are all sexist and unsubstantiates arguments, that have their only basis on the sexist prejudice of the talker. To say that Hillary's success is partly owed to her family connections and past personal history is not sexist. It has nothing to do with her gender. It is a reasoned argument that many believe in, many feel is a political reality, and should not be considered taboo. To say that Hillary Clinton is engaging in political theater and emotional manipulation is not sexist. It has nothing to do with the fact that Hillary is a woman. It is a valid, and very true argument. And please, don't tell me other politicians aren't similarly criticized for such transparent displays of posturing.

[Yotun]

26. Double post, sorry

[Orangepeel]

7. Bush and McCain are republicans. This is a progressive board

People sure criticized Dean in 2004 and Edwards in this race, but they were always criticized by others for doing so.

[Yotun]

15. So? We should give our politicians the same scrutinity we give those in the other side. Nobody

deserves special treatment because they are a democrat, and nobody deserves not to have valid concerns about them expressed because some people don't like them.

[Orangepeel]

23. If you seek a place where Democrats are criticized as harshly as Republicans, you might try Yahoo

Democrats can be criticized here. But it is a progressive board founded largely for the dual purpose of criticizing and making fun of bush.

Of course you are going to get blowback when you insult Democrats and agreement when you insult republicans.

:shrug:

[Yotun]

28. But the question is whether Hillary has been trated with sexism in the general campaign

I did not give examples of this board. The criticisms I gave are often heard of not only here, but in many places. Left-leaning media (what few that exist) attacks with what I mentioned. The right attacks with all sorts of vicious attacks on the Democrats. Those Hillary supporters at the committee and some here are saying Hillary has been treated unfairly, and that the media's behavior has been sexist and disgusting against her.

What I have been saying is that the media, of whatever political leaning, has been attacking, making fun of, and being agressive towards all male politicians. Granted they don't call them assholes and dicks, like I've said in the OP, but there are certainly many shows which call certain figures stupid, idiots, and various other names.

Certainly many have criticized Bush and Cheney for how their political connections have been shaped by their amily connections, or their usiness connections, certainly many have criticized the neo-cons for the way they found ways to skip Vietnam, and if you don't like those examples because they are in the right, and the criticisms are valid, I'm sure I do not have to give examples of what Fox has been saying about Democratic politicians.

Yet some here are saying that when somebody in the media is discussing how Hillary's political position has been affected by her own personal story with Bill, that that is somehow sexist!!! And I find that remarkable, which is why I said in the OP, have some of them just now been interested in politics that a woman is running, and are surprised that not everybody is laying down and treating her like a 'lady', and that some are making valid criticisms, that they find uncomfortable? This is ridiculous!

[EFerrari]

8. Any candidate besides older white men get treated differently.

White women don't have any special gripe against this culture that isn't shared by a multitude of other people.

[dsc]

9. go to the following links and look up Chris Matthews

www.dailyhowler.com

www.mediamatters.org

[noel711]

13. As a woman in a typically male profession...

I've encountered plenty, plenty of sexist crap... things said to me that would never be said to men,
things done behind my back, strings pulled, all kinds of manipulative skata...
BUT
I soldiered on...
I know if I'd make a big deal about the treatment, it would diminish my assets.
I soldiered on...
I see folks defer to men when it comes to specific things, and I smile..
I know that I'm damn good at what I do...
and.. many folks are surprised at my competency...
The male I succeeded in my current placement was brilliant, distant and accomplished.
But I soldiered on..
and my executives adore me. They treasure me for what I bring to the table,
for my insight, for my flexibility, and ability to work with others with kindness.
I don't use emotions to get my way. It's not worth it.

Because I won't play the sexist card; if its obvious, others will recognize it.
I appreciate what I've received because of competent women before me who blazed trails for me.
I hope the work I do, the example I set does the same for those who come behind me.

I'm a middle aged white woman... who tries to see the big picture.
And I'm an Obama supporter.

I try not to say bad things about Hillary Clinton,
she's very competent, but she never connected with me.
I'm sorry for her that things have not works well for her.
Things could have been different.

[samdogmom]

20. Thank you!

I have argued endlessly on this board that COMPETENCE trumps everything including your sex....but some choose not to buy this argument.

ME? I've never suffered "sexism" in my daily life...on the job front or the personal front. I am very competent in all that I do...my employers and friends recognize this fact...and I just don't think I'll ever hear an argument against me because I am a woman.

That being said...I truly don't accept the Hillary "sexism" charges. Our country moved beyond this silly measure years ago....So Hillary supporters crying this crazy plea are either stuck in the 70s' or worse.....!

[cynatnite]

21. I hear you on that...

I spent four years in the Army. We had to put up with so much sexist crap that there were times I almost went AWOL. If we complained...we were weak. We had to work twice as hard just to prove we could keep up.

We shouldn't have to 'soldier' on. That's a bullshit attitude that makes for allowances to let men continue to mistreat women. Sadly, it's still considered acceptable by too many women.

[mod mom]

18. I'm a white nearly 50 woman, and I agree. I certainly don't want to succeed by playing victim.

I don't understand why some women thought it was okay that Hillary use this card.

I supported Sen Obama over Sen Clinton based on their positions (IWR, Kyl-Lieberman, DLC, WTI Toxic Waste Incinerator) not based on race or sex.