Ruthless

[DefenseLawyer]

She comes out publicly and says essentially that she wants the VP spot, knowing that he isn't going to choose her in a million years. She knows this will enrage her supporters even more, she will again play the victim, play the sexism card, furthering her true goal of an Obama defeat and a 2012 run against a 125 year old man. I know of no other rational reason for her to make this move. Try as I might, I can't see another rationale, especially in light of all her other moves to divide and undermine. She wants us to lose. Politics makes me sad.

[TexasObserver]

1. "Me! Me! Me! It's always all about ME!!"

That's Hillary 24/7.

[DefenseLawyer]

4. Ego is one thing. This is something else. n/t

[roguevalley]

62. it astonishes me that she would think we would even look at her

in 2012. delusional thinking.

[Labors of Hercules]

35. Obama needs to pick a better woman.

Napolitano or Sebelius come to mind.

[The Magistrate]

2. A Great Many People, Sir, Will See This As A Very Reasonable Compromise

[Cooley Hurd]

5. ...and a greater amount will not.

[The Magistrate]

18. Quite The Contrary, Sir

Most of the Party's rank and file like both these candidates. Bitterness and division are the province of a very small slice of persons.

[DefenseLawyer]

19. We won't win a general election by appealing to the "party rank and file"

But that is a different agrument for a different day. I am talking about her puzzling tactics.

[The Magistrate]

23. You Will Not Win An Election Without Them, Sir

[DefenseLawyer]

President Dukakis agrees with your strategy

but we are getting a little far afield here.

[ozymandius]

32. It is two things.

The politics of salvaging one's dignity. And then it is an expression of the human condition: relevance despite defeat.

[Critters2]

49. You won't win with only latte liberals,

though you're welcome to try.

How many times does the center need to throw the left under the bus before learning its lesson?

[DefenseLawyer]

69. Huh?

You really think Hillary Clinton appeals to the "left"?

[Cooley Hurd]

26. I strongly disagree...

Liberals and progressives, NOT the wishy-washy, self-absorbed soccer/security moms and dads, are now in charge of the party. The American people, in general, have tried conservatism, and it RUINED them. Senator Clinton is NO progressive - the Kyl-Lieberman Amendment proved that.

[NightOwwl]

45. By picking Hillary...

he would essentially be throwing the central theme of his campaign down the toilet.

Not only that, I honestly believe the Clintons are so desperate to remain in power, they would have no qualms about sabatoging his Presidency.

[roguevalley]

63. she won't pass the vetting. she will want some of their stuff undisclosed

and some of it will be terrible -money from deals with dictators, etc- so it will be a moot point. bitterness is a natural human condition and brought about by the process. Since we have been asked to molly-coddle the Hillaryite people their 'feelings', it irritates me enormously to be lectured to by someone who is scolding over bitterness. That sword cuts both ways. if we have to sit here and wait for you guys, don't expect some of us, MANY of us to come along any faster. and your exaggerated manner is condescending. just thought you would want to know. It undercuts your point.

[Terran]

72. Er, remember?

60% of the country, last I heard, does not trust Hilary Clinton.

[Independent-Voter]

75. She's had the highest negatives of ANY candidate, Dem or Pub

Yeah, she's a real winner.

[bunnies]

6. I wont be one of them.

:grr:

[sniffa]

8. You forgot the "sir"

[bunnies]

40. Vodka and Cran out my nose.

Indeed I did. :spray:

[SoxFan]

9. Question

Why is a GDP moderator actively participating in a GDP thread?

Not cool.

[redqueen]

13. deleted

[cbayer]

16. Moderators are members who volunteer their time, right?

Why should they be excluded from participating?

[Rhiannon12866]

71. Absolutely. They volunteer more time than many full time jobs.

And it's been particularly difficult here, during the primary season, so I don't envy them. Of course mods are still expected to participate. Skinner encourages this. And they are often long-time DU members, so their opinions should be welcome. :-)

[Cooley Hurd]

17. Mods ARE allowed to register their opinion...

's cool.;)

[Rhiannon12866]

70. Because they are still DU members.

I know it's tough, since, as a mod, you see the worst of DU, but everybody's entitled to an opinion, and to participate here, mod or not. Since they are often long time members, their participation should be welcome. And the mods really do give their best, especially in these difficult times here. I was a mod in LBN, but still looked for the latest news...:shrug:

[redqueen]

11. Yeah....

likely the same ones who thought the inawsion of Iraq wasn't such a bad idea.

[lojasmo]

12. Not I, sir.

A compromise would be picking a female VP candidate who would help the ticket. A compromise would be picking a Clinton supporter (Like Clark) who would help the ticket.

Choosing clinton, who would certainly bring the ticket down, is not a compromise, sir.

[DefenseLawyer]

14. Then why not make your feelings known behind the scenes?

If it is truly about a "compromise" and about doing what is best for Obama in the fall, why the public announcement, today of all days? It is designed to put him in a trick bag. There is no other explaination for a calculated public statement like that, and you know it.

[The Magistrate]

22. As The Saying Goes, Sir: "Politics Ain't Bean-Bag."

There is no reason for Sen. Clinton not to manouver for the best she can get out of the present situation. That is what people locked in a political struggle do.

"Sportsmanship is a spectator's virtue, not a participant's.?

[DefenseLawyer]

25. She lost, chief. The "struggle" is over.

That is my point, she lost and yet she is still trying to fuck him. What is her purpose other than the one I have suggested?

[The Magistrate]

44. You Seem To Mistake Me For A Partisan, Sir

To a reasonable and neutral eye, she is simply playing out the string for the best she can get. Your view that 'she is still try to fuck him' depends on agreement that selecting her as the Vice-Presidential nominee would be disasterous. That is not a view with as much force as you may suppose.

[DefenseLawyer]

46. You are talking about whether she would make a good VP

you can argue that either way. I am talking about her tactical decision to announce publicly that she want the job, knowing full well he isn't likely to offer her the job. Why would one do that if they had the best interests of the Obama campaign at heart? That is the question you apparently don't have an answer for.

[The Magistrate]

48. You, Sir, Have No Idea Whether He Is Considering Offering Her That Position

Nothing leaked at this point can be taken seriously. Nor is this a decision Gov. Dean and the D.N.C. leadership and Party elders in general will be without influence concerning. Your comments still depend on accepting the view Sen. Clinton as the Vice Presidential candidate of the Party would be harmful. That is far from certain, and certainly widely disputed.

[DefenseLawyer]

52. You are a broken record

It has nothing to do with her merit as a VP. It is HIS decision. When she comes out PUBLICLY saying she wants the job, it weakens him. Period. There is no tactical reason for her to make that public statement today except to weaken him. If you have some other reason I would like to hear it. But please, if you are just going to say the same crap over and over without touching the issue at hand, don't bother.

[The Magistrate]

56. What You Seem To Think An Issue, Sir, Seems To Me A Mere Irrelevance

You have failed to come close to demonstrating this statement has the slightest weakening effect on Sen. Obama's campaign, either at present or in future. You take that, apparently, as axiomatic, and there seems to me no reason whatever to do so....

"I will fight it out on this line if it takes all summer long."

[roguevalley]

64. considering the RNC is circulating a video with her saying that

she and McCain were the best qualified to be CIC and Obama has a 'speech', I think her usefulness is over to the party. who needs that kind of help.

[MH1]

43. Yes there IS a reason.

She could, for example, stop being selfish, and consider that maybe what she wants is not what is in the best interests of the campaign or the country.

But who am I kidding?

[iconicgnom]

50. The race is over, Sir. She lost, Sir.

The Dem nominee is expected to play hardball vs the opposition, Sir, not vs those who would presume to be his VP. The last thing the Dem nominee needs, Sir, is a VP who plays a neverending game of political maneuvering to force her advantage. Esp. should that VP have an ex-Pres as husband.

[The Magistrate]

55. She Long Ago Lost The Presidential Nomination, Sir

That was gone before the Indiana and North Carolina primaries.

There are certainly sound arguments on both sides of the question of whether she should receive the Vice-Presidential nomination. It will be interesting to see what actually occurs. The one thing that is certain is that this will be a decision made by professionals, without much reference to histrionics. 'Shot-gun marriages' are pretty common on national tickets....

"I am a man of principles, and chief among them is flexibility."

[iconicgnom]

60. Shotgun weddings rarely work out well in this day and age, Sir.

Esp. when the would be "bride", not yet pregnant, carries the shotgun.

But then, in 2008 women and men are increasingly seen as equal, and marriage is increasingly seen as being an equal partnership -- and has been for some time -- whereas the relationship between P/VP doesn't even approximate equality.

And strange it is, Sir, that since it's so clear she lost long ago, as you say from well before the Indiana primary, she would spend the ensuing weeks throwing the kitchen sink - and hoping none too silently for a disaster.

To put it another way, Sir, if Obama is a thinking man, and he is, no way in hell will he choose Hillary Clinton as VP in these circumstances of her own making. In fact I expect Obama to put this issue on the back burner for several weeks, at least, to give himself and his trusted advisors time to define the GE in their own terms, so the VP announcement, when it comes, will be made entirely on his own terms, on the ground of his choosing, to enhance his position, with any "maneuvering" being done discreetly, privately, for the good of the team and the party.

[NightOwwl]

59. "There is no reason for Sen. Clinton not to manouver for the best

she can get out of the present situation."

Actually, there is.

Today Obama will be the first African American chosen as a party's nominee for president.

She should acknowledge the historic magnitude of this day for Democrats and for the country. She should let Obama have his day to shine.

But that would require class, grace and humility. Three characteristics Hillary lacks.

[ozymandius]

21. "she would consider it if it would help Democrats win the White House"

Somehow, I do not believe that the presumptive nominee is looking for this kind of help. It's difficult to ignore the vitriol even if the bombast is only campaign slugging.

Likewise, it is difficult for me to imagine who would want to be Sen. Clinton's vice-president just as it confounds me to envision any candidate who would want her and her husband as their second-in-command.

She can be very good for the party and the next president from the Senate.

[THUNDER HANDS]

39. a great many people also claim to see ghosts

[MH1]

41. Compromise WHAT?

This isn't about what Hillary "deserves" or what Obama's "rights" are. This isn't about dividing a friggin' piece of cake between two kids!

It's about who is best for the job. Hillary ran a disastrous campaign. Hillary has tons of baggage that Obama did NOT attack her with, but the republicans will. There is NO good reason on this earth to put her on the ticket UNLESS she is going to hold the Democratic Party hostage by withholding her support from Obama unless she gets what she wants. If she does that she will be reviled by Dem activists for years. Count on it.

[Liberal Gramma]

47. No. It would be a compromise if it came from Obama. From Clinton, it's extortion.

[The Magistrate]

51. And A Supporter Of Sen. Clinton, Ma'am, Would Probably Call It A Hand Extended In Friendship

"Where you stand depends on where you sit."

[Liberal Gramma]

You might see it that way. I don't, but then I distrust her friendship.

Obviously, I don't know what's in her heart, so one of us will be surprized. I hope it's me.

[The Magistrate]

58. To Me, Ma'am, It Seems The Laying Down Of A Marker

A public notice, aimed more at her own supporters than at its ostensible target.

[DefenseLawyer]

54. The telephone works better than the press conference if that is one's purpose. n/t

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue_Roses]

61. there should be no compromise where one is not wanted...

but more to the point, why did she do this tonight ...while it is a redundant question, it speaks volumes.

[breakaleg]

66. Compromise for what? He won, she lost. What does he need to compromise on?

[BlueJac]

3. I don't expect less from a Clinton....

greed and power rules their lives, they have nothing else going.

[HeraldSquare212]

7. I don't know why she or her supporters think she would win in 2012.

If Obama didn't run again, there would be a new crop of Dems who are senators or governors. Just because she's second this time doesn't mean she's automatically first next time (though thinking that way is consistent with the entitlement mentality).

[jgraz]

24. They don't. They just want to punish the rest of us for not participating in the coronation.

Trust me, she's going to do everything she can to undermine Obama's candidacy. Her so-called concession speech is going to be one giant dogwhistle to her hard-working white supporters.

[Schema Thing]

10. source or quote?

[Hamlette]

15. Tweety got it right, this is like the Clinton's having an event at the airport while Bush was being

sworn in. We can't get rid of them! It is all about them.

No grace at all.

[rodeodance]

20. your hate and paranoia never stop.

[Cooley Hurd]

27. .

:rofl:

:spray:

Nice try, EE...:D

[peaceoutnow]

28. How do you know he's not going to pick her??

When doing that is the best way to get some unity in the party! Obama is a lot smarter than you give him credit for.

I thought winning in NOVEMBER was the issue. A party that is eating itself alive isn't exactly poised for a win!

[roguevalley]

65. given that if something happens to him, I want the stand in to be

someone I can believe in. I don't believe in her and I didn't even before the RFK remark. he wasn't wearing a bullet proof vest before that remark but he is now. check the pictures.

[atufal1c]

29. No. She's serious. She wants to run for Prez in 2012.

And the VP slot is the second best place to run for it FROM.

But don't forget that Bill will have to be vetted, too.

They are an anchor on this ticket.

Just too much can be made of it.

ALL of the Clinton's past issues PLUS Obama issues, PLUS the black man/white woman/Bill the impeached ex-president issue?

It' just too much.

It is Hillary's JOB to bring her supporters over. That's what the loser does. She doesn't need to be VP to do that.

Someone should ask her if she intends to do her JOB.

[rucky]

30. This whole pattern of airing dirty laundry in public

sucks ass

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[helderheid]

33. 2012

:mad:

[Cooley Hurd]

36. 's okay, President Obama will win that one, too...

...and (NY) Senator RFK Jr will thank his predecessor for keeping the seat warm!:D

[SoCalDem]

34. He just needs to say in PUBLIC..and in FRONT of HER

I am considering her, and when she presents hers and her husband's financial statements..INCLUDING the donors to the library and the foundation, we can move ahead with the consideration..

and...

he can remind us daily whether she has complied..

Once a certain amount of time has passed, he can say thet the Clintons declined to open up their finances, and she's no longer being considered..

[DefenseLawyer]

37. He could do that

but it just furthers the division. Why even put him in a position to have to do all that? It's bush league psyche-out shit. Laughable, man.

[GoesTo11]

38. The rationale is simpler than that.

She wants to be VP.

She also wants to have a credible threat that she'd screw him over if she doesn't get to be VP, and her hopes for 2012 might just give her that credible threat.

Not the most altruistic party member, selfish actually, but she holds the cards she holds.

[roguevalley]

67. she has no chance in 2012 if she fucks around here. no one will

forgive her after four more years of bush stuff and a gifted moment being sunk by her. she is delusional if she can believe it will be otherwise.

[blogslut]

42. Since March

She has known since March that she wasn't going to be the nominee. It's no coincidence that a little more than one month after Patti Solis-Doyle stepped down as her campaign manager, this domain was registered:

http://whois.domaintools.com/voteboth.com

It's no coincidence that that (now operational) site is operated by the young gentlemen that ran this website:

http://whois.domaintools.com/votehillary.org

Senator Clinton has been hedging her bets and playing her supporters for fools.

[Raine]

57. "Ruthless" PERFECT word

for the Clintons...they make me sick. :puke:

[Generator]

68. Yeah and I could almost feel sorry for her

as in she is desperate and pathetic and she never ran for office until she gave hubby his political career FIRST. Which is why I always call bullshit on her feminism. Where was her political campaign twenty years ago? OH BILL comes first. Anyway-I want a real feminist first president-one that doesn't see the only way to become a president is marry one.

AND AND WHEN AND IF we ever get rid of the Mark Penn, Al From let's act like Republicans and win wing of the party then I can forgive. The Clinton's have been ruining the Democratic party ever since they tried the third way and hooked up with Penn.

[workinclasszero]

73. Yes Hillary wants the democratic candidate to LOSE!

Its all a set up for 2012! When the hell is the dem party going to wake up?

Hillary's allies are Fox "news" Pills Limpballs's and Hannity job!

Every single superdelagate should be declared for Obama NOW!

Any holdouts are suspect to me. Rethug plants or DINO's, take your pick.

[DefenseLawyer]

74. I have certainly heard no other rational explanation for her tactics

If there is one, I am all ears. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt but that is almost impossible at this point.