Rangel on MSNBC now:"We are having difficulty explaining why she is holding back on her endorsement"

[BlooInBloo]

He genuinely looks as befuddled as the rest of normal folks. He said he's going to be talking to Clinton on the phone later today, to get a better idea of what-the-fuck is going on.

[Eurobabe]

1. I heard it, I was surprised at his level of candor.

[BlooInBloo]

2. He's sort of like Tester in that way - lol - Or vice-versa.

[NotThisTime]

4. Me Too, he says holding back the endorsement is not in keeping with wanting a Dem to win

[Mike L]

50. HRC can still win if a major Obama scandal comes out before the convention. em

[harun]

53. Which is more likely, an Obama scandal or her staying in the race

harming his chances in November?

[flpoljunkie]

21. The Page: ON NY1, Rendell Raises Doubts on Clinton as VP

On NY 1, the Clinton-backing governor says of her:

“Generally a lot of politicians don’t like to put somebody like that on the ticket. You know rule one for the Vice President is make sure you never upstage the President, right?… Hillary Clinton in some ways couldn’t help but upstage, even if she was trying not to.”

Adds: “The Obama campaign would have to make strict rules… about what President Clinton could and could not do during the campaign.”

Also urges Clinton not to “bargain” with Obama about exiting the race:

“You don’t bargain with the Presidential nominee. Even if you’re Hillary Clinton and you have 18 million votes, you don’t bargain.”

http://thepage.time.com/2008/06/04/rendell-raises-doubts-on-clinton-as-vp-you-dont-bargain-with-the-presidential-nominee/

[IndyOp]

3. Out of 14 new Obama SDs today, 5 are Senators --

I think we'll need a MASSIVE shift of SDs from Clinton to Obama as well as the vast majority of SDs declaring for Obama swiftly.

[NotThisTime]

5. Is there a list from today?

[IndyOp]

11. DemConWatch -- scroll down a bit...

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/

[americanstranger]

12. As of 1:50 EST....

- Added Rep. Chris Van Hollen (MD) for Obama
- Switched VP Walter Mondale (MN) from Clinton to Obama
- Added Sen. Frank Lautenberg (NJ) for Obama
- Added Gov. Phil Bredesen (TN) for Obama
- Added DNC Gray Sasser (TN) for Obama
- Added DNC Inez Crutchfield (TN) for Obama
- Added Rep. Rahm Emanuel (IL) for Obama
- Added Rep. Mike Doyle (PA) for Obama
- Added Sen. Ken Salazar (CO) for Obama
- Added Sen. Tom Harkin (IA) for Obama
- Added Rep. Tom Udall (NM) for Obama
- Added Sen. Ben Cardin (MD) for Obama
- Switched DNC Karen Hale (UT) from Clinton to Obama
- Added Sen. Ron Wyden (OR) for Obama

Mondale, Lautenberg, Emanuel, Salazar, Udall, Wyden... some pretty heavy hitters on that list.

Let's hope more come forward and/or make the switch. It's probably the only thing that will force Clinton to let go of the damn podium and do the right thing.

- as

[KSinTX]

26. I almost spit my coffee on the podium line nt

[msallied]

40. Wow! Mondale switched too. Good deal!

[XOKCowboy]

38. SALAZAR??? *spit take*

My Senator finally did the right thing for the party? Maybe there's hope that we can cure him of DINOitis.

[Captain Angry]

58. Not a chance.

As soon as somebody hands him another bankruptcy bill, he'll be back to form.

[blonndee]

6. Scary, when even insiders have no explanation for such bizarre behavior.

And that they will say so publicly.

[FrenchieCat]

7. He understand that she is not leading 18 million "Supporters" by the nose

as she decides what to do. She had approx 18 million "VOTERS" who voted for her. It is not the same thing.

Charlie understands that many in New York are no longer so impressed with her....even if they voted for her on February 5th; in particular in the area that he faces re-election. The same can be said of voters in many other states. Once they are removed, and the operation chaos folks as well....and those who like Obama fine, but liked Hillary more, it really doesn't leave that many supporters. Her fundraising numbers, in fact, belies how many hard core supporters she does have. The point that she seem to have the same people behind her, and can't fill large venues also doesn't lie.

In other words, the 18 million she keeps talking about is as big of a myth as her winning the popular vote.

[WeDidIt]

10. HE also realizes that her current behavior

is childish and could be harmful to the futures of those super delegates who supported her.

[KSinTX]

34. You have GOT to read Hilary Rosen's blog today

One of HRC's most prolific supporters wrote today:

Instead she left her supporters empty, Obama's angry, and party leaders trashing her. She said she was stepping back to think about her options. She is waiting to figure out how she would "use" her 18 million voters.

But not my vote. I will enthusiastically support Barack Obama's campaign. Because I am not a bargaining chip. I am a Democrat.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hilary-rosen/i-am-not-a-bargaining-chi_b_105133.html

[Inuca]

57. I saw her on MSNBC

she looked and sounded hurt, disappointed, and resolute.

[NotThisTime]

61. I was and am amazed to hear her say this on MSNBC today...

I appreciate her sentiments, but I was just surprised to say the least.

[Mooney]

60. She seems to believe that every single person who voted for her are zealots.

They're not. I'm sure there are some true believers, but for the most part I think most of the people who voted for her care more about having a Democrat in the White House, as opposed to just her and nobody else. For her to act like every vote she got was from people who would ONLY vote for her is a little weird. Her voters are all free agents. They can and will do what they want.

To use a very tired analogy, her voters aren't cult members.

[Cali_Democrat]

8. This doesn't shock me at all

I can't believe some folks are shocked that Hillary isn't conceding. They obviously haven't been paying attention to her antics the last few months.

[msallied]

42. I guess some people figured that even she would have a threshold... that there would come a time

when the light of reality would shine on her and she would just simply get it. Now it appears she's going to be pulled away kicking and screaming.

[butterfly77]

49. They haven't ...

just like some of her supporters, some have come late to the game...

[PoliticalAmazon]

9. I don't understand why he looked "befuddled." Hillary is being Hillary....

anyone who expected her to be other than divisive and bullying has not been paying attention to current events.

I'm sorry, but Rangel no longer has the right to act "befuddled." He is an experienced politician, and he knows exactly who Hillary is and what she will do.

He is also one of her loyal supporters. He needs to step up to the plate now and get her out of the race. Rangel will have to be part of the solution. Otherwise, his legacy will include being part of the problem that crippled the Democratic Party's chance in November.

[NotThisTime]

13. Well, he is talking with her later today, maybe he will get some answers at least, then make his own

mind up as to what to do, instead of blindly following as he is doing at the moment

[PoliticalAmazon]

28. He, and other Hillary supporters, are going to suffer for supporting her...

As she continues to be divisive, people will look at her political supporters and see them as the very foundation upon which she has built her divisive, scorched-earth campaign.

Rangel, and others, have done good work for the Party, but their continued backing of Hillary Clinton enables her to further divide the party.

He will have to answer for Hillary's actions, whether he likes it or not.

[cyndensco]

47. What Rangel needs to do is what Mondale did today and

Maxine Waters did yesterday. He and others need to publicly switch their support to make her face reality.

[PoliticalAmazon]

54. Yes, of course. But there is still going to be fall-out. n/t

[Tatiana]

18. This side of Hillary is only becoming known now that her back is up against the wall.

He's a politician. They know what defeat is. They know what compromise is.

Hillary really is not a good politician. That really is not her forte. Developing policy, yes. Administration and telling people what to do, yes. Pure politics, dealing with loss... it is a foreign concept to her.

This is the first major thing she has lost. She simply cannot handle it and she has a group of people around her who are not looking out for her best interests.

[BlooInBloo]

22. Good points.

[PoliticalAmazon]

24. Huh? Hillary has shown her true colors for months. Hell, if we have been....

able to see it, an experienced politician should have seen it.

It reminds me of Hillary claiming Bush tricked her into voting for IWR. Either she is lying, knew there were no valid reasons to invade and occupy Iraq, but did it anyway for political expediency...or she didn't know and if that is the case she is incompetent to be in the Senate.

Same with Rangel: either he knew Hillary's nature and loyally supported her anyway, or he didn't know and if he didn't he is incompetent to be in office.

[BlooInBloo]

27. (shrug) Keep in mind that we have a 30,000 foot view of them....

In some cases - quite possibly this one - that would be an advantage in seeing things that people who are only 10 feet away can't see so easily.

[PoliticalAmazon]

31. I don't buy it. He's a long-term politician. He sees things we don't...

not the other way around.

And if he has not seen what Hillary has been doing, then he is incompetent to remain in office. His consistuents need, at the very least, someone who can judge the motives and character of other politicians because it dictates their success in legislating for the constituents.

[Tatiana]

37. Exactly.

A lot of the Congressional reps are thinking "Oh $hit... she really meant all that stuff she was saying! We thought it was just hype, but this chick is for real for real!"

Later on today, when Clinton asks Rangel for his support in her VP bid, he is going to very sadly have to tell her "hell to the naw."

[Tatiana]

33. Rangel is baffled that, as a politician, Hillary is not acting like a politician.

That is why I believe his surprise is genuine.

We had two candidates leading movements.

One campaign said "YES WE CAN!"

The other said "YES SHE CAN!"

This has been repeated and reinforced ad nauseum. Rangel, being a politician, assumed that Clinton was just adapting a slogan to benefit her campaign. But, as Rachel Maddow always reminds us, no one actually LISTENS to what Hillary Clinton is saying. She has told us her plan and ideas all along.

She has more in common with Bush than people recognize. The problem is that it is very difficult to imagine the spirit of Dick Cheney housed in such a lovely figure as Hillary Clinton's. But this woman really does believe she and only she can save us from ourselves.

[msallied]

46. It's Groupthink, plain and simple

It's a real psychological phenomenon. Hell, it's been exhibited for years by the Bush administration. Actually, it's regularly utilized by almost all governing bodies. And she's not exempt from it by any stretch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink

[Willo]

48. I understand it

"But I never thought she'd go this far," is what they're probably saying.

NO HONOR AMONG THIEVES
There is a time, a place and a manner for handling all types of things but Hillary defies all rules and disrespects all protocol.
She consistently takes her prominent supporters out of their comfort zones. Putting them in the spotlight and defending things that should never happen.

You have to imagine there have been many specific and general conversations with her throughout this race. Yet, she continues to unbalance and embarrass them.

Hillary travels further into No Man's land, leaving more and more seasoned people behind her, saying "this is as far as I go."
The cleaner hands backed off the earliest. Those who remain are made to sound more ridiculous in her defense.

I don't see Rangel letting Hillary dismantle what he's built.

[hfojvt]

14. the "difficulty" comes from not wanting to use Occam's Razor

or clinging to some other false postulate. "If she cared about progressive issues, she would endorse."

Since we KNOW she cares about progressive issues, we need to find some complicated explanation for how she can care about progressive issues and still not endorse. All to avoid the obvious conclusion - she doesn't really care about progressive issues.

If she was on the side of working people, she would endorse.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/76

[BlooInBloo]

19. :) Nah - it's just politician-speak for "Clinton is being a fucking jackass".

[eleny]

52. Hah!!!

[msallied]

59. Very well put.

:toast:

[Marie26]

15. Maybe it's time for an intervention. nt

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

16. Hillary has selfishly put Rangel and people like Meeks in a very sticky situation...

They have to face their districts, and I'm sure that Rangel has been having problems in Harlem with his black supporters...and YES, many Hispanics as well. He can't explain to them why he would continue to support Hillary despite what she has done to the party, added to that why she can't support the Democratic nominee.

In other words, Hillary is holding the Democratic party hostage and her elected supporters could face punishment.

If anything, Hillary's action should serve as proof that Hillary doesn't care about her supporters or the Democratic party. She doesn't realize that she is hurting many of the surrogates by her behavior.

[PoliticalAmazon]

39. Rangel's no babe-in-the-woods. He allowed himself to be put in that position. n/t

[Hansel]

17. Comments like these from her supporters are going to seriously

damage her political future and the Clinton's legacy.

She should have conceded magnanimously last night and she would have garnered so much more respect and actually strengthened her position. Every day that she continues with this charade will only weaken her position further as more and more of her supporters publicly abandon her.

If I was a Hillary Clinton supporter, I would go to her website and beg her to concede so that she doesn't permanently damage her political future.

[Marie26]

20. LOL, I just did.

For what it's worth (likely nothing.)

[HeraldSquare212]

55. Rendell just said, You don't negotiate with the Presidential nominee, even if you have 18M votes

[Az_lefty]

23. It's all about Hillary, Hillary, Hillary....this is why she can't be the VP

really it's her and Bill.

[Yael]

25. If Rangel hasn't switched his endorsement, he has no leg to stand on.

[BlooInBloo]

29. I think that's what his phone convo with her later is going to be about...

Something along the lines of: "We're going to endorse Obama. Now is your chance to *lead* Obama's endorsement."

[Tatiana]

43. He's gonna switch. If Rahm Emanuel endorsed Obama (and he really didn't want to)

Rangel likely will, too.

[atufal1c]

30. His constituents are surely tearing his ass...

Plus, he saw that little performance she put on last night. She cheated Obama out of his glory last night and Rangel knows it.

She's saying make me VP or I'll continue to feed my supersupporters bullshit and increase the uncertainty when we really need unity. And time to heal.

But look, Hillary received the votes of 18 million Democrats. Not Hillaries.

The vast majority of those people are voting Democrat in November. No matter how much they cheered for her last night.

It's not like she's won over Republicans and Independents like Obama. Or registered a bunch of new voters.

She has what the party ALREADY had--Democrats.

And I'm waiting for SOME big politician to say so.

I've lost a lot of respect for her.

[asjr]

32. Is that the royal "WE" or are his

two faces making the remark?

[mzmolly]

35. When her campaign becomes about HER, she's no longer

a credible "public servant."

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

45. Hillary's entire campaign has always been about HER.

[GalleryGod]

36. No shiite, Cholly ! Better Hop on back to Harlem and check the Congresional District folk feel !

Some interesting emails flowing into Cholly's Office today!:rofl: :spray: :rofl:

[Poll_Blind]

41. I don't always agree with Rangel but his comment shows he has common sense. "Why?" n/t

PB

[Imagevision]

44. Hillary wants the VP. slot and she's not sure she's going to get it...

[atufal1c]

51. No, I think she's SURE she's not--unless she can force her way on...

After all, she does have an army of 18 million.

She can bring democracy to this primary just like we bring democracy to Iraq--whether you want it or not.

[msallied]

56. I wonder if she's given thought to what it would look like if she DID get something out of this...

She would look like a bridesmaid who broke the nose of the person who caught the bouquet at a wedding just so she could have it. And then she's just standing there with this maniacal look on her face with the ripped apart flowers in hand while everyone's looking at her like she's just lost her fucking mind. There is no dignity or glory in such a thing. Her reputation would be forever sullied by her behavior to get what she wanted. Why in the hell would she want to do that to herself?

[BlooInBloo]

62. It just seems like a recipe for Epic Fail to try to force The Head Of The Democratic Party....

to prove to everyone that he's, well, The Head Of The Democratic Party.

[DeschutesRiver]

63. I was just listening to the last of a conversation with Rangel on the tube

he did sound puzzled.

Said something like we agreed to stick with her until the end of the race, but this is the end, so we need input from her by the end of the week about what is going on. Not exact words, but he sounded like he has been left hanging in the breeze by her actions, like he didn't expect this, ie that we'd have a nominee and yet she'd still be acting as though the race is still on.

Betting that if she doesn't do something by Friday, Rangel and the people he mentioned who are also wierded out by her behavior will be doing something to separate themselves from her immediately.