Scott O'Grady Accuses Kerry Of Treason

[Maple]

Posted on Fri, Aug. 13, 2004
O'Grady: Kerry's actions after Vietnam constituted treason
ASHLEY H. GRANT
Associated Press


ST. PAUL - Scott O'Grady, the Air Force pilot who captured headlines in 1995 when he survived being shot down over Bosnia, on Friday said Sen. John Kerry committed "treason" during the Vietnam War.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/state/9395212.htm

[Democat]

1. Being against war is treason, but being against a war hero isn't!

O'Grady: If you are against veterans, you are bad. If I am against veterans, I am right.

When O'Grady is done spitting on Kerry and other war veterans, he can cash his check from the Bush campaign and crawl back under his rock.

How much does Bush have to pay someone like this to completely sell out himself and his country?

[cynatnite]

3. My respect for him just went into the toilet n/t

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

2. Uh huh. Somebody fix Scotty up with a copy of the Bill of Rights, okay?

Because he obviously needs a little review.

[AP]

4. Someone needs to tell Mr O'Grady about Kissinger's ACTUAL treason

during Vietnam and remind him that the dick he's sucking tried to appoint Kissinger to chair the 9/11 Commission.

(Kissinger actually negotiated with NV to prolong the war. Johnson had the tapes but Humphrey wouldn't use them in the election. Clinton writes about this in My Life and calls Kissingers actions likely treasonous.)

[Democat]

6. This is just another guy paid off by the Bush campaign

If he was told to say that washing a car is treason, and the check cashed, he'd say that as well.

It's so predictable.

[incapsulated]

5. Christ, what next

Wes Clark shoulda left your ass out there instead of sending in the rescue crew, jerk.

[CBHagman]

43. I had the same thought, unfortunately.

It's disappointing to see how O'Grady has been Mr. RNC Shill for the past few years. It would be different if he were merely introducing candidates or praising members of his party, but he's part of the attack machine and it's disgusting to watch. I'll bet Shalikashvili is in his hospital bed thinking: "I wish that idiot would put a sock in it."

[jeff30997]

7. Scott O'Grady ? The guy who became a hero because...

He stayed hidden in the bushes crying like a baby while waiting for rescue? What a joke !

[progressivebydesign]

8. Yeah..

I really can't figure out what makes the guy a hero. Not like he swam back to USA or anything.

[SoCalDem]

32. Hey YOU!!!. He is a hero....He ate bugs..

He didn't know it at the time, but he was probably an inspiration for that All American Institution.....

[Jack Rabbit]

14. That's out of line

Questioning the valor of men in combat is not a favor I wish to return to the Republicans. We should acknowledge O'Grady's valor and then dissent.

O'Grady is wrong about Kerry's actions. Captain Lindberg was also wrong about quite few things in his time, as we know. That made his achievement no less spledid.

[IndianaGreen]

18. I agree, Jack, that's out of line

O'Grady always said that the heroes were the Marines that rescued him.

I will also mention that O'Grady, who is Catholic, is a deeply religious man who has spoken about a spiritual experience that he had while hiding from the Serbs. He said he had a vision of the Virgin Mary in the Bosnian forest. Catholics claim the Virgin had been appearing at Medjugorje, not far from where O'Grady was shot down.

[incapsulated]

19. Does he acknowlege Kerry's valor?

I doubt it. You can lose the honor you have gained, as well.

Attacking a fellow vet and war hero, a man who saved the life of his crewmate, for purely political reasons, is one way to dishonor yourself.

[IndianaGreen]

20. I believe he was talking about Kerry meeting with the NV delegation

at a time there was a war going on. People can honestly disagree about that. Whether you like it or not, veterans do not all think alike! Some will support Bush no matter what, others will support Kerry no matter what, and a great many more will make their minds up whenever they damn well please.

[incapsulated]

24. That vet's disagree on the issue is a given

Standing up at a Bush event to proclaim that Kerry is guilty of treason is another. It is especially absurd given that Vietnam wasn't his war or his time, this isn't some burning issue for him.

That is pure political theater. He is trying to slime Kerry as a communist sympathizer for political reasons. The fact that Kerry fought against, and killed, those same communists seems to slip his mind.

He is using his status as a "hero" and vet to discredit someone who is a real hero, as far as I am concerned. O'Grady didn't save anyone. He didn't risk his reputation to take a controversial stand, either. He is using the Rove smear playbook to try to take down Kerry.

[A_Possum]

26. O'Grady uses the word "treason"

That's not a word you throw around just because you have an opinion. If he'd said he didn't think it was the right thing for Kerry to do, that's his opinion, but to call Kerry a traitor is another kettle of fish entirely.

I don't think anyone who gave Kerry's career an honest look from the time he left Yale onward, whether or not they agree with his politics, could possibly call him a traitor in any way.

[Jack Rabbit]

30. And O'Grady should be condemned for using the word 'treason'

That is just wrong and O'Grady should be ashamed of himself.

My dispute is with Jeff and Caliphoto (posts 7 and 8) who seem to think that this somehow negates O'Grady's display of valor in Bosnia. It does not and cannot.

So, what we have is a former war hero shamelessly badmouthing another former war hero. They're still war heroes. Both of them.

[A_Possum]

31. What's interesting (and sad) is...

I've been reading Tour of Duty and in his letters and journals Kerry consistently acknowledged and described the heroic actions of other men who fought with him, including at least one (Larry Thurlow) who is now making claims that Kerry's a liar who doesn't deserve his medals.

If you read this book, you see all of what Kerry did and experienced through 1971 gathered in one volume--well, frankly, it's no wonder the freepers are hallucinating in panic. They ought to be.

Kerry was one hell of a guy. Awesome. He makes Bush look like some reject from Gilligan's Island.

[Julien Sorel]

36. What did O'Grady do that

qualifies him as a war hero? I've never understood it. He followed orders, got shot down (generally speaking, to get shot down flying a modern jet fighter means the pilot made some kind of mistake), and was rescued. Certainly he deserves respect for serving, and he obviously demonstrated willpower and resourcefulness in not getting captured. But heroism requires a higher standard, some kind of sacrifice or risk. I don't see that in Captain O'Grady's otherwise inspiring tale.

[Jack Rabbit]

38. O'Grady deserves his accolades

At least I believe he does. O'Grady avoided capture by hiding and eating spiders and grass. I think I would qualify eating spiders and grass for a few days as a sacrifice.

His mission was to avoid capture if possible and he did. He would not have gotten in any trouble with his commanders if he had surrendered in order to obtain some comforts under the circumstances, although he had good reason to assume he would have gotten little humane treatment from the Bosnian Serbs. In any case, he went beyond what was expected of him.

It isn't hard to acknowledge that and still say that to call Kerry a traitor over his activities in opposition to the Vietnam War in 1971 is beyond the pale. It shouldn't be too hard for leaders of the Bush campaign to say flatly that efforts such as O'Grady's and O'Neill's to denigrate Kerry's war record or smear him as a traitor for his anti-war activities is not proper.

[Julien Sorel]

40. A point of disagreement.

I think I would qualify eating spiders and grass for a few days as a sacrifice.

The alternative was to be captured by the Serbs. Given the choice between eating bugs for a few days, and spending God knows how much time in the Bosnian Serb version of the Hanoi Hilton, I'll take the spiders every time. That's if, of course, he was even taken prisoner. Some zealous peasant might have simply killed him instead of capturing him. I don't see the sacrifice in what he did.

[Jack Rabbit]

42. Sometimes just surviving is heroic

Take a look at what you just wrote and what you wrote in post 36.

• Given the choice (of) . . . spending God knows how much time in the Bosnian Serb version of the Hanoi Hilton
• Some zealous peasant might have simply killed him
• he obviously demonstrated willpower and resourcefulness

Remarkable willpower and resourcefulness, I would say. Are you sure there's nothing inspirational about that?

Courage is fighting a battle that must be fought when the outcome is uncertain or even in cases where one's chances of survival are slim. O'Grady displayed that after being shot down. He's a hero in my book.

[Julien Sorel]

44. Then we're all heroes.

I've lived through some pretty hard times, harder than most, but I wouldn't consider myself a hero. Just a survivor.

Remarkable willpower and resourcefulness, I would say. Are you sure there's nothing inspirational about that?

I believe I already used the words "resourceful," and "inspiring" in regards to the captain's story. That doesn't make him a hero.


In my book, which for now will be the dictionary, he fails to meet the standard of hero. He didn't do anything noble (mere survival isn't noble); there was no sacrifice in what he did; he didn't do anything particularly daring or courageous. All he did was look out for his own best interests: survive. It doesn't make him a bad guy, which, current charges against Kerry notwithstanding, he probably isn't; it just makes him a person who survived an unusual event.

[Jack Rabbit]

49. We are in agreement on the important point here

We've gone into a Socratic dialog about the definition of heroism; let's agree to disagree about that.

Whether it qualifies as heroism or not, we are agreed that O'Grady survived an unusual event by demonstrating resourcefulness and a strong will, which I think we will agree further are admirable traits in a human being; therefore, we should be able to say that Captain O'Grady's conduct in the Balkans, whether it rises to the level of the heroic or not, is worthy of our admiration. Moreover, it is an objective fact that he performed acts worthy of our admiration and that it cannot be taken away from him, regardless of any wrongheaded pronouncements he may be making now.

[Jack Rabbit]

22. I partly agree and partly disagree

EDITED the sloppy typing in the title

What O'Grady is saying about Kerry now is nonsense. Kerry committed no act of treason. Let's criticize him for that. In no uncertain terms.

What he did in Bosnia stands on its own as an act of valor. That can't be taken away. To attempt to take it away because we don't agree with him is to stoop to the level of John O'Neill and the Swift Boat Liars. We don't need to do that to point out that what he is saying now is incorrect.

[JohnKleeb]

23. Jack, agreed

You got a point.

[Guaranteed]

21. No, I think we should recognize him for the whore that he is

and destroy him.

[Jack Rabbit]

25. See post 22

I believe we can disagree with Mr. O'Grady without resorting to character assassination.

We are not Republicans here.

[incapsulated]

27. lol!

You really made me laugh out loud, heh.

[IndianaGreen]

29. I hear this same kind of language from rightwingers

Let me put it you bluntly, and I hope you understand. Some veterans see Kerry as a hero when he spoke up against the war in Vietnam, I count myself among those. Others were extremely offended that Kerry used a broad brush when he spoke about atrocities because he painted all veterans as war criminals.

Everything that you hear today from veterans about Kerry, positive or negative, goes back to that! Kerry's meeting with the North Vietnamese delegation in Paris, which I was not aware of or had forgotten, will be viewed by many veterans as negatively as they did Jane Fonda when she went to Hanoi.

The only question is whether many of the veterans that are upset with Kerry will come to the realization that they have more reasons to be more upset with Bush for launching a vanity war against Iraq. Time will only tell!

[Maple]

9. Something eh?

Everybody is getting into the act these days!

[A_Possum]

10. What is it with Bush that he's got vets dissing other combat vets?

He's allowing the military to tear itself apart just to take the focus away from his own chickenhawk record.

They send out these ex-combat guys to smear another combat vet and then say "Oh, noooo, we would NEVER question Kerry's patriotism/record, we wouldn't do that, would we? Here, listen to another one we dug up, so we can tell you we would NEVER question Kerry's patriotism."

This is as ugly as it gets. Kerry was trying, at great risk to himself and his own reputation, to protect his fellow soldiers from getting annihilated for no good reason. Would this O'Grady guy just sit around after HE was rescued and watch the guys still in there get toasted?

Based on Kerry's record, the odds are he would have gone in to save O'Grady--I have to wonder if O'Grady wouldhave done the same for Kerry, or any of his fellows.

Sickening. Really sickening.

[Old and In the Way]

13. Scortched Earth policy.

If they can't win, make the results so ugly, the "winner" will be faced with permanently divided country.

[rucky]

11. Does every shmuck with an opinion make it on the wire?

[Democat]

28. Only those who bash Kerry or praise Bush - it's the "liberal media"

If you praise Kerry or bash Bush, you will be ignored.

[carpetbagger]

12. Since he was 6 years old at the time, he would know. n/t

[Snoggera]

15. So

anyone who repeats that shit is also guilty of treason.

I don't watch tv, and didn't hear of this shit until you posted it.

I would rather not repeat shit. Wouldn't you?

[Maple]

17. Let's not get silly eh?

I'm Canadian.

I saw the headline and assumed Democrats would like to be prepared, rather than caught unawares.

I gather some of you would rather hide your head in the sand.

So be it.

[fortyfeetunder]

16. Does O'Grady feel forgotten after 9 years?

See, most of us has long since forgotten who the hell Scott McGrady is and he now reminds us he exists now by bashing Kerry.

Go back into your hole, Scott.

[genius]

33. Scott's a traitor for backing a deserter.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

34. My memory has hit a blank with this guy

I don't even remember him

[oasis]

50. Our "hero" was rescued by forces under Commander in Chief Bill Clinton

dusted of, made all the talk show rounds, and then saw fit to campaign for Republican Bob Dole for president.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. "You Keep Using That Word... I Don't Think You Know What It Means..." n/t

[Walt Starr]

37. Well well well, That headline is wrong. Here, I'll fix it

Scott O'Grady Has no Clue How to Define Treason

There, all better now.

[Jack Rabbit]

39. Now, that's a fair statement

I will hold it up as an example of what can be said about O'Grady in this case.

[Sparkly]

45. Exactly!

That says it all.

[desertalien]

47. One more thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall that when O'Grady was "shot down" he was flying in an area he wasn't supposed to be in in the first place.

[WI_DEM]

46. if the GOP is going to continue to attack Kerry's military record

Let's start going after the chimps. Let's fight fire with fire.

[Sparkly]

48. I like the way the recent statement about "facts" did this

It turned it back to the real issues. So the campaign itself might say, "We're not going to dig into the unresolved question of how Bush* got into the TANG in the first place, or whether he was a deserter; what concerns us is that he's deserted people without healthcare, he's deserted people who need jobs, he's deserted today's veterans, he's deserted the entire issue of fiscal responsibility," etc...

I'd like to see other groups continue the hunt for the truth of Chimp's records.

[oasis]

51. "I fought for the right to promote the ideals of facism" Scott O' Grady.

No link.