Unity ticket is the best way to go...explanation below

[NNguyenMD]

I'm kind of coming into these discussions pretty late into the game, but I beg to differ with Ex-Pres.Carter when he said that picking Hillary as VP was the worst mistake to be made. I just don't see how Obama could NOT pick Hillary given the circumstances. Together (with Bill) an Obama-Clinton ticket would be a fundraising leviathon, it would out match McCain and his anemic GOP on his best day. They would be at a large financial advantage from day one.

I'm not a professional pollster, but the general sentiment in the Obama camp seems to be that a Obama-Clinton ticket would not sway many Obama supporters away to McCain in November, even the Republican ones. I feel that the folks who voted for him in the primary feel pretty good right now, and will still really want him to become president regardless of who is on the ticket.

Over the years, the role of the Vice Presidency is far from the "bucket of spit" job it used to be, its no longer just about having a pulse, after the past 3 decades it really has transformed into a position to make real policy changes. Hillary Clinton has a more formidable pulpit to push legislation on healthcare and the economy as Vice President than as the junior Senator from NY. That is a prospect attractive enough to keep her supporters from defecting to McCain's camp. Sure its not president, but its pretty damn close and still better than Senator.

This year's turnout for Democratic primaries is a good estimation of the advantage we've got in November, losing Clinton supporters to McCain is the worst thing that could happen. I really hope his campaign chooses her for VP.

[cynatnite]

1. I'd love to see it, but I'm not holding my breath...

Personally, I think Hillary would be at her strongest by going for Senate Majority Leader rather than VP. She'd excell and kick a lot of repuke ass.

[pbca]

2. No

I've been over the reasons why not 100 times already so just NO

[kwenu]

3. On Monday it was maybe. Today it seems insane to do so.

[NNguyenMD]

6. sorry, but could you elaborate a bit? what am I missing?

[kwenu]

25. Apparently an absolutely ungracious speech that failed to acknowledge a nominee,

an attempt to bully said nominee into giving away a VP slot and a refusal to unite under the party banner until forced by senior party leaders at the prompting of the candidate's own campaign officials.


You've missed quite a bit but that's okay. We know you know now.

[NNguyenMD]

31. so she used her leverage to "possibly" pressure her placement onto the ticket...

stop the trains! a politician recognized an open opportunity

[kwenu]

33. It's the vice-presidency! Are you kidding? No one does that.

And to be clear there is no second place prize for the nomination. You're either the nominee or you're not.

[hokies4ever]

44. She overplayed her hand and got called on it.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

28. yes, a Hillary/McCain or Hillary/Lieberman ticket would be true unity

great idea.

[CakeGrrl]

4. No. Let the vetting process finally put the end to it if that's what it takes. n/t

[grantcart]

5. The problem is that she continues to fumble the ball

At the end of the campaign she blundered yet again. People talk of how emotional she is and how much she has invested in it.

She needs time to gain some perspective and detach from the experience.

Unfortunately theese are all the reasons she cannot any longer be considered for it. She isn't up to it. In her own terms

she isn't able to take the 3:00 am phone call.

Moreover her husband with his hundreds of millions in financial arrangements will never pass the vetting process.

That is why she tried to force her way onto the ticket, she knew that a careful process of examination would bring up too many

problems.

If they can't have it handed to them in an emotional moment they do not want to have it carefully examined.

They will no longer be interested in it and by Monday this talking point will pass into history.

[NNguyenMD]

8. hmm...but after 6 years in the senate and a year on the campaign trail hasn't

most of the vetting already been done? Is there anything else new to really find out? Have the Clintons not released their financial records? I really don't know, tell me?

Is the vetting process for VP any different than the one done by the media this far into a prseidential campaign?

[blm]

11. here ya go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6250885&mesg_id=6250885

[NNguyenMD]

14. yeah I see what you mean, but this is dated since January 22, 2008

Its been floating out there for months, and it didn't seem to affect her performance in the primaries. I cleary see what you mean, but I think that the severity of its impact is still in question.

[blm]

17. It's all over the news tonight - Clintons won't turn over these records.

These deals are part of it.


Those of us aware of it kept warning about this - check out some of the current threads tonight about Obama already ruling Clinton out.

[grantcart]

15. no none of it has been done and yes it is completely different.

They haven't released any of the donors for the Presidential Library ammounting to hundreds of millions of dollars. Some of these are known to be foriegn nationals who Pres Clinton has done business favors for and does business with.

There personal finances have not been examined in the kind of detail that a VP will require.

Their are also questions of receiving money from people who received pardons right before Pres Clinton left office.

Also he has had associations with some very eye popping people.

Read the Vanity Fair article and you will find extensive insuations of President Clinton's dating since leaving the

White House. Should these rumours be checked out? What would happen if she is named VP and then it is found out that the allegations are true?

Or take the Vanity Fair article and take out all of the sexual rumor out. What remains is a very disturbing record of the type of

people that President Clinton has been associating with. The will not pass vetting.

Finally both Speaker Pelosi and President Carter have made it clear that they think it is absolutely the wrong idea.

Do you think they may know something that we don't?

[NNguyenMD]

22. Probably a naive response I'm about to make but...all of this seems to have been out there for

anyone to exploit for awhile now. Is ti really any news to anybody in the United States that Bill Clinton had shady dealings with people of dubious backgrounds. Even so, he has maintained an extraordinarily high approval rating as an ex-president with the Clinton Global Initiative and his work providing HAART medication to poor countries.

Her supporters have had a long time to digest all of the negative possibilities that you have insinuated, do you really think that they would really put aside her qualifications and chalk up some newly found revulsion to her and her husband's financial dealings?

Maybe a better question for me to pose is how important is it for the Obama campaign to retaining Clinton's fervent supporters?

[grantcart]

24. Well put the sexual rumors aside and the financial ones are significant

and they have kept all of the contributions to his foundation and the library secret.

These contributions, including the foundation are close to a billion dollars.

Why are Speaker Pelosi and President Carter saying "no" under any circimstances.



And how about Edwards fervent supporters?

Why does she get a special pass?

Anybody that thinks that Senator McCain and his penchant for military action and his assault on the rights of women and so on and so on are an acceptable choice are free to join them.

Here is what the party wants. Here are the super delegates that have moved in the last 24 hours to support Nominee Obama.

There is no co- President or assistant President. Senator Obama is in charge and he is the leader and he will be making this decision without pressure. The more Clinton supporters push the more he will not choose her but quite frankly her manner and conduct has gotten worse and shows quite frankly that she is not up to the job. I was open to it before but not now. If something happened to Senator Obama and she became President the country would suffer. Her supporters in congress and the Senate are absolutely shocked at how she handled herself especially at the end. You will notice that many of her oldest supporters like Senator Boxer - whose daughter married Hillary's brother have made it clear that they were not happy.

6-4-08 - Added Rep. Chris Van Hollen (MD) for Obama
- Switched VP Walter Mondale (MN) from Clinton to Obama
- Added Sen. Frank Lautenberg (NJ) for Obama
- Added Gov. Phil Bredesen (TN) for Obama
- Added DNC Gray Sasser (TN) for Obama
- Added DNC Inez Crutchfield (TN) for Obama
- Added Rep. Rahm Emanuel (IL) for Obama
- Added Rep. Mike Doyle (PA) for Obama
- Added Sen. Ken Salazar (CO) for Obama
- Added Sen. Tom Harkin (IA) for Obama
- Added Rep. Tom Udall (NM) for Obama
- Added Sen. Ben Cardin (MD) for Obama
- Added Sen Herb Kohl (WI) for Obama
- Switched DNC Karen Hale (UT) from Clinton to Obama
- Added Sen. Ron Wyden (OR) for Obama
- Added Terry Goddard (AZ)# for Obama
- Added Rep. John Salazar (CO) for Obama
- Added Rep. Mark Udall (CO) for Obama
- Added DNC David Strauss (ND) for Obama
- Added Sen. Tom Carper (DE) for Obama
- Added Sen. Mary Landrieu (LA) for Obama
- Switched Sen. Barbara Boxer (CA) from Clinton to Obama
- Added DNC Paula Zellner (WI) for Obama
- Added DNC Ed Cote (WA) for Obama
- Added DNC Sharon Mast (WA) for Obama
- Added DNC Cheryl Chapman (SD) for Clinton
- Switched Sen. Tim Johnson (SD) from Obama to Clinton
- Added Rep. Michael Michaud (ME) for Obama
- Added DNC Ivan Holmes (OK) for Obama
- Added Rep. Susan Davis (CA) for Obama
- Switched DNC Claude "Buddy" Leach (LA) from Clinton to Obama

6-3-08 - Added DNC Maria Chappelle-Nadal (MO) for Obama
- Added DNC Joyce Lalonde (MI)* for Obama
- Added Rep. John Olver (MA) for Obama
- Added Rep. Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick (MI)* for Obama
- Added DNC Debbie Dingell (MI)* for Obama
- Added DNC Richard Wiener (MI)* for Obama
- Added DNC Jennifer DeChant (ME) for Obama
- Added DNC Joyce Beatty (OH) for Obama
- Added DNC Kwame Kilpatrick (MI)* for Obama
- Added Rep. John Spratt (SC) for Obama
- Added DNC Debra Kozikowski (MA) for Obama
- Added DNC Jon Ausman (FL)* for Clinton
- Added DNC John Perez (CA) for Obama
- Added DNC Carnelia Fondren (MS) for Obama
- Added Jimmy Carter (GA) for Obama
- Added DNC Tina Abbott (MI)* for Obama
- Switched DNC Ben Johnson (DC) from Clinton to Obama
- Switched DNC Kamil Hasan (CA) from Clinton to Obama
- Added DNC Diane Glasser (FL)* for Obama
- Switched Rep. Maxine Waters (CA) from Clinton to Obama
- Added DNC John Daniello (DE) for Obama
-Added DNC Harriet Smith-Windsor (DE) for Obama
- Switched DNC Rhett Ruggerio (DE) from Clinton to Obama
- Added Rep. Dennis Moore (KS) for Obama
-Added DNC Belkis (Bel) Leong-Hong (MD) for Obama.
-Added LA Rep. William Jefferson (LA) for Obama.
-Added WY DNC Cindy Nunley (WY) for Clinton.

All below endosements for Obama
-Added Rep. Bob Brady (PA)
-Added DNC Mike Tardiff (MI)*
-Added DNC Ray Buckley (NH)
-Added DNC Frank Dixon (OR)
-Added DNC Margaret Campbell (MT)
- Added DNC Muriel Offerman (NC)
Rep. John Sarbarnes (MD)
Margaret Campbell (MT)
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (AZ)
Don Bivens (AZ)
Christine Pelosi (CA)
Rachel Binah (CA) (Switch from Clinton to Obama)
Rep. Sam Farr (CA)
Rep. Bob Filner (CA)
Rep. Jerry McNerney (CA)
Gov. Bill Ritter (CO)
Michell Ceasar (FL)*
Rep. Ron Klein (FL)*
Michael Thurmond (GA) (switches from Clinton to Obama)
Helen Knetzer (KS)
Patsy Arceneaux (LA) (switches from Clinton to Obama)
Sam Spencer (ME)
Rep. Bart Stupak (MI)*
Yolanda Wheat (MO)
Sam Lieberman (NV)
Catherine Cortez Masto (NV)
Rep. Rush Holt (NJ)
David Parker (NC)
Jay Parmley (OK)
Bill Bradbury (OR)
Frank Dixon (OR)
Ian Murray (PA) (switched from Clinton)
Jim Leaman (VA)
Rep. Ron Sims (WA) (switched from Clinton)
Heather Mizeur (MD)
Rick Stafford (MN) (switch from Clinton)
Jay Nixon (MO)
Robin Carnahan (MO)
John Temporiti (MO)
Sen. Max Baucus (MT)
Sen. Jon Tester (MT)
Governor Brian Schweitzer (MT)
Dennis MacDonald (MT)

[Thrill]

7. Adding her to the ticket doesn't mean they are going to stop going to McCain

Didn't you hear crazy lady Harriet?

[NNguyenMD]

10. she's gotta represent the vindictive part of the party...Clinton and McCain are so far apart

idealogically, I don't see it happening if she's still on the ticket. I actually kind of find it hard to imagine happening if she isn't one the ticket from a strict idealogical standpoint, but this is America so anything can happen.

[Athelwulf]

9. For Obama's sake, I hope he DOES NOT pick Clinton.

I will, of course, still vote for Obama if he does, but I greatly dislike Clinton. Not only is she too conservative for my taste, but she's also evidently an opportunistic and very sore loser. There are others who feel this way too, and I fear some of them will vote for McCain if their other option is an Obama-Clinton ticket.

I say no.

By the way, if you can, you should edit your post to clear up some language. When I read "I beg to differ with Ex-Pres.Carter when he said that picking Hillary as VP was the worst mistake to be made", I thought Obama had actually picked Clinton to be his running mate. I had to check on Wikipedia's article on Clinton to see if there was any word about it. You should write "picking Hillary would be the worst mistake", not "picking Hillary was".

[NNguyenMD]

12. sorry

"I think it would be the worst mistake that could be made," said Carter.

[msongs]

13. no hillary vp - a new person needs to pick a fresh and new team nt

[BlooInBloo]

16. Dude - that ship has already sailed. Talking about how cool it would be boots nothing.

[K Gardner]

20. This is tiring. I guess the "Hill for VP" threads will go to Hide Thread w/ "Whitey Tape" threads.

[JeanGrey]

18. Sorry - you're going to find that you won't have much

support for her as VP. How can he not? My question would be how could he?

[AtomicKitten]

19. Obama said he will choose someone who reflects the direction he wants the country to go.

That would be forward, not backward.

Hillary has napalmed her bridge.

[Cha]

29. Yip.

:nuke:

[AtomicKitten]

30. I look forward

to her absence. :D

[Cha]

35. With

Vigor!

[John Q. Citizen]

21. Putting Hill on the ticket would hurt our chances in November. Tell me this; Is Obama

supposed to throw away his change message? The message that won nomination and that works so well against McCain?

Will he tell his supporters that he's for a "new kind of politics" for "turning the page" and the best way to do that is to go backward two chapters?

I'm not worried that Obama will make that mistake, but I'd like you to understand why putting Hillary on the ticket would hurt our chances in November.

Hillary would energize the Repo evangelical base who don't much like McCain.

Hillary would discourage the youth vote and the black vote.

She won't deliver NY, Obama already has that.

There is little up side and lots of down side politically to putting Hill on the ticket.

[NNguyenMD]

23. but how can you negate her impact on the popular vote during the primaries...I mean Obama didn't

exactly blow her out of the water. This was not a clear cut race, he won largely in part because of superdelegates. Think of the thousands of Democrats who voted in record numbers in big states NOT for Obama, like Texas, California, and NY. Aren't you worried who they will go to in November?

The Republican base hate Hillary now, just as they hated her 8 years ago, they will hate her the same as a VP candidate. Prove to me in tangible terms how energized you expect evangelical turn out to be in comparison to Hillary supporters voting for her as the VP nominee?

Do you seriously think that Obama/Clinton will turn off the Youth and Black vote? How will that work out? They turned out record numbers to make him the nominee? They were apart of making history, do you seriously think that they will abandon him b/c he put a Clinton on the ticket?

She's got a lot of money, a lot of potential to bring in even more money, and some of you seem to ignore how well she did in this primary. Her support is an untapped resource.

[goclark]

26. Did she pay all her many debts yet?

[kwenu]

34. Not true. It is clear cut. There is no second place. Keep repeating that so it sinks in. No #2.

[NNguyenMD]

40. whats clear cut about it? 1918 delegates is kind of alot don't you agree?

Do you seriously believe its that easy to negate her impact on the popular vote during the primary?

[kwenu]

43. What I believe is that no one should have to negate it. She is supposed to concede in honor.

Not make an ass out of herself and the party.

[John Q. Citizen]

37. As in any primary race, the people who supported the loser generally support the winner in the GE.

History proves this repeatedly.

In a very real sense Obama did blow Hillary out of the water. He came from far behind to win. Hillary started the race with far more money, name recognition, and leading in every poll in almost every state.

She ended up losing far more contests, raising less money, and with fewer votes.

Your assumption that Hillary brings many voters who aren't Democrats and who therefore wouldn't otherwise vote for the Democratic nominee is erroneous I think.

Are you suggesting that you, for instance, won't vote for the Democratic nominee unless Hillary's name is also attached to the ticket?

[NNguyenMD]

41. Yes, thats exactly what I'm saying, thank you.

and if it seems illogical, then thats where we disagree.

[John Q. Citizen]

42. Are you with Operation Chaos?

[ShortnFiery]

27. Give it up! NO. F**KING. WAY. n/t

[barack the house]

32. Seeing Carter is against it, that speaks volumes to me it has to be off the table

Carter is one of the wisest sages of our times. I never go against wisdom.

[New Dawn]

36. Clinton on the ticket = McCain in the White House

[Vinca]

38. It's not going to happen by her choice. Bill doesn't want to be vetted. nt

[TexasObserver]

39. I don't see it as a Nguyen-Nguyen situation.

Sorry, but the Clintons have too much baggage and will burden Obama too much. I think they cannot be on the ticket. Too much dead weight, too much bad history.