It's over......but a bigger fight is just beginning....

[BooScout]

And I'm not talking about Obama/McCain...while important........it's not foremost on my mind at this point.

Clinton will suspend her campaign and endorse Obama on Saturday.

I am incredibly sad at this news, but not surprised. Hillary Clinton is a class act all the way. She ran an incredible campaign. I think we all learned quite a few things about the Democratic Party this past year. Not all of them good.

The coming months should prove very interesting. Time will tell whether Obama is the Uniter he professes to be. There are some very serious breaks in the Democratic Party. If the leadership ignores those open wounds and lets them fester then the damage will be irrepairable. ...in fact, it may already be too late. I am not a soothsayer. I can't predict the future.....but I do see an incredibly bumpy road ahead.

The biggest thing this campaign has done for me is to wake me up from my lethargy concerning women's rights and issues. It has become blatently apparent that women in America are still being treated as second class citizens. This cannot stand. My feminist roots from the 70's have resurfaced with a roar. I suspect I am far from alone in this.

I warn the Democratic Party now. Hillary's campaign may be suspended. But if they expect me to sit down and shut up..........they have another thing coming.

[cboy4]

1. Let's just hope during his quest to unite, Obama stays

away from his friend Donnie McClurkin.

[rodeodance]

5. that would be a good thing

[anonymous171]

46. I think he knows how stupid that was and has learned from his mistake.

[SeattleGirl]

2. Uniting takes more than just one side.

I understand how you are feeling; I felt the same when Edwards suspended his campaign.

But please don't think you can just sit back and wait for the other side to come to you.

You have some work to do, too, in the healing that needs to take place.

And so do I.

I am happy to do so, but I will not kiss ass to anyone.

And I don't expect them to do that toward me either.

It will take all of us.

:toast:

[rodeodance]

3. I believe you are right on Boo. The dem party leaders better wake up.

[ladjf]

16. Wake up to what specically?

[MoonRiver]

47. Wake up to the fact that A LOT of women in this country are insulted and enraged

by the blatant sexism and unwarranted, vicious attacks on Hillary Clinton we witnessed during this primary. Oh, and add to that the outrageous disenfranchisement of TWO major swing states by a corrupt DNC, and maybe you can understand why MANY OF US are of this sentiment:

[ladjf]

48. MyPetRock - I have read and re-read your post several times.

In so far as I have a different "take" on the Clinton candidacy run than yours I debated whether to
tell you my opinions about the race. But, I've decided to trust your integrity and "fire away".

1. You have observed "blatant sexism and unwarranted, vicious attacks on Hillary Clinton" during the primary.

Millions of people participated in the recent primary process and if one sampled even a relatively small percent of those millions, there would be cases exactly as you have stated and other cases that
didn't go after Sen. Clinton for gender reasons.

I'm just one male participant, albeit a political junkie and one who is profoundly concerned over the
devastation wrought by Republican control of the U.S. Gvt. during the past eight years. Almost any
person in America would have been a huge improvement over Bush and his henchmen. McCain is almost a
joke.

Having said that, I was opposed to Sen. Clinton's candidacy, not because of her gender, but in spite of it. If there had been two Democratic candidates that I had judged to be equal in good qualities and one had been male , the other female, I would have chosen the female because, all things otherwise equal, I believe that it would be a great thing for all Americans, particularly females.

However, I believe that it was unfortunate that the first woman to run was not a candidate I could feel confident about. Arguably, it is likely that her husband's sexual dalliances cost the Democrats
the election in 2000. Senator Clinton is no way to blame for that, yet if she were to be elected, it
would be impossible for Bill to stay out of policy making. Although his record as President, from a policy standpoint was good, his selfish, possibly neurotic sexual behavior showed him to be too
dangerous to trust with the keys to the White House.

Secondly, Sen. Clinton voted to allow the Iraq military action if Bush so warranted it. She never
backed down from that wrong vote. There were other times when she sided with the Bush administration.

I had been a huge fans of the Clintons until about 2001 when it began to appear to me that they were in politics for their own advancement, financially and otherwise. I felt that Sen. Clinton's moves
were all calculated for the expedient political advantage. Yes, my opinions were subjective, but,
with a crooked media, all we've got to go on is our own intuition as be watch and listen.

Mrs. Clinton is a courageous, beautiful woman who was once a hero to me. I have been terribly disappointed by her political conduct. Heroes are hard to come by.

The messes in Florida and Michigan started with the fact that the DNC made a strategic mistake by
trying to dictate the dates of the primaries. Then the Democrats in charge of the elections made another mistake by defying the DNC. Since all of the Democratic candidates agreed not to buck the DNC
on the ban, I don't think Sen. Clinton should have campaigned in either state.

For those reasons, I disagree with your assessment that the Florida, Michigan compromise was an outrageous disenfranchisement of two major swing states. And I see no way that sexism could be
connected with the compromises.

Now comes to the hard part, the end game.

As it became apparent that Sen. Clinton had no reasonable chance to gain the nomination, her recalcitrant and defiant behavior began to seriously jeopardize the chances of the Dems winning in November against an otherwise weak McCain. That was scaring the hell out of me. If she loved America
and shares all of our angst about the horrors of the Bush administration, she should have immediately changed her course and started to do everything possible to get our candidate elected.
It appeared to many of us that such wasn't going to happen.

Now, she has announced that she is "on board" with the Democratic Party and will endorse Obama.
I and many others are relieved. However, damage to the general cause has already happened. We don't know to what extent our chances to win have been diminished.

MyPetRock, although I am male, my political leanings are strongly in favor the advancement of rights
for women as well as people of all colors. I regret that I'm not able to support the first woman to try for the Presidency and look forward to the election that does field an outstanding American female, one that I would be glad to vote for.

Meanwhile, I can only imagine how badly you and millions of women feel. Although, if I were President, I'm not exactly sure what concrete steps could be taken to improve in the many areas that woman are discriminated against such as equal wages, abortion rights and others. Human behavior follows ancient, hard to change patterns. They can be solved with the right kind of leadership.

[MoonRiver]

52. I do not fault you because you are male. Just wanted to get that out there. That said:

In so far as I have a different "take" on the Clinton candidacy run than yours I debated whether to
tell you my opinions about the race. But, I've decided to trust your integrity and "fire away".

THANK YOU FOR THAT TRUST. I HAVE BEEN A LONG TERM DEMOCRAT, AND HAVE BEEN POSTING ON DEM MESSAGE BOARDS FOR 8 YEARS, SINCE THE 2000 THEFT.

1. You have observed "blatant sexism and unwarranted, vicious attacks on Hillary Clinton" during the primary.

Millions of people participated in the recent primary process and if one sampled even a relatively small percent of those millions, there would be cases exactly as you have stated and other cases that
didn't go after Sen. Clinton for gender reasons.

OBAMA SUPPORTERS (NOT YOU, BUT MANY OTHERS) HAVE USED SEXISM TO DESTROY HILLARY CLINTON. YOU MAY DISAGREE IF YOU DESIRE, BUT NUMEROUS SOURCES STATE OTHERWISE.

I'm just one male participant, albeit a political junkie and one who is profoundly concerned over the
devastation wrought by Republican control of the U.S. Gvt. during the past eight years. Almost any
person in America would have been a huge improvement over Bush and his henchmen. McCain is almost a
joke.

Having said that, I was opposed to Sen. Clinton's candidacy, not because of her gender, but in spite of it. If there had been two Democratic candidates that I had judged to be equal in good qualities and one had been male , the other female, I would have chosen the female because, all things otherwise equal, I believe that it would be a great thing for all Americans, particularly females.

However, I believe that it was unfortunate that the first woman to run was not a candidate I could feel confident about. Arguably, it is likely that her husband's sexual dalliances cost the Democrats
the election in 2000. Senator Clinton is no way to blame for that, yet if she were to be elected, it
would be impossible for Bill to stay out of policy making. Although his record as President, from a policy standpoint was good, his selfish, possibly neurotic sexual behavior showed him to be too
dangerous to trust with the keys to the White House.

Secondly, Sen. Clinton voted to allow the Iraq military action if Bush so warranted it. She never
backed down from that wrong vote. There were other times when she sided with the Bush administration.

DID YOU SUPPORT SENATOR JOHN KERRY? HE VOTED FOR THE IWR.

I had been a huge fans of the Clintons until about 2001 when it began to appear to me that they were in politics for their own advancement, financially and otherwise. I felt that Sen. Clinton's moves
were all calculated for the expedient political advantage. Yes, my opinions were subjective, but,
with a crooked media, all we've got to go on is our own intuition as be watch and listen.

Mrs. Clinton is a courageous, beautiful woman who was once a hero to me. I have been terribly disappointed by her political conduct. Heroes are hard to come by.

WHY WOULD YOU BE DISAPPOINTED BY HER POLITICAL CONDUCT? SHE HAS DONE NOTHING EXCEPT ENDORSE SUPPORT FOR ALL AMERICANS.

The messes in Florida and Michigan started with the fact that the DNC made a strategic mistake by
trying to dictate the dates of the primaries. Then the Democrats in charge of the elections made another mistake by defying the DNC. Since all of the Democratic candidates agreed not to buck the DNC
on the ban, I don't think Sen. Clinton should have campaigned in either state.

For those reasons, I disagree with your assessment that the Florida, Michigan compromise was an outrageous disenfranchisement of two major swing states. And I see no way that sexism could be
connected with the compromises.

THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN RE-VOTES. WEALTHY BACKERS WERE WILLING TO PAY FOR RE-VOTES IN BOTH FL. AND MI. DEAN SAID BOTH CANDIDATES HAD TO AGREE BEFORE HE "ALLOWED" RE-VOTES TO OCCUR. OBAMA BLOCKED THE RE-VOTES.

Now comes to the hard part, the end game.

As it became apparent that Sen. Clinton had no reasonable chance to gain the nomination, her recalcitrant and defiant behavior began to seriously jeopardize the chances of the Dems winning in November against an otherwise weak McCain. That was scaring the hell out of me. If she loved America
and shares all of our angst about the horrors of the Bush administration, she should have immediately changed her course and started to do everything possible to get our candidate elected.
It appeared to many of us that such wasn't going to happen.

THIS WAS A PRIMARY ELECTION. CLINTON WAS NECK IN NECK WITH OBAMA. WHY WOULD SOMEBODY CONCEDE UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS??? SHE, I, AND MILLIONS OF OTHERS THOUGHT SHE WAS NOT ONLY THE CANDIDATE MOST LIKELY TO WIN THE GE, BUT ALSO THE BEST POTENTIAL PRESIDENT.


And, finally, I'm not really devastated. This is just politics. I DO believe a great woman was demonized and mistreated. But such has been happening since time eternal. We will keep fighting to prevent sexism. There are many important issues in this election. Teaching the DNC a lesson is one. Making sure that progressives don't denigrate women EVER AGAIN is another.

[ladjf]

53. Thanks for the thoughtful rebuttal.

I'll just hit a couple of highlights.

I didn't like Kerry as the candidate because (1) he had that "Skull and Bones" rich person connection
with Bush and others , (2) his vote on the IWR and several other bone headed things he said and did.

I was all for a re-vote on both states. That was an obvious better answer.

As for the "neck and neck" timing: My references were to later in the time period when it was no longer "neck and neck".

Well anyway, if we can get any Democrat elected in November, we will be in a better position to improve the conditions for all.

[hfojvt]

57. she wasn't neck and neck. She had lost ten straight

and needed huge wins to have a chance. She created more bad feelings by making Florida and Michigan an issue. She campaigned very negatively against somebody who was likely to be the Democratic nominee, and, as such, clearly put November at risk. Most people, if they didn't have $11 million of their own money to lend their own campaign and connections to WEALTHY donors from two terms in the Oval Office, would not have been able to continue.

I don't think your summary of Florida and Michigan is accurate. I have read many threads and article about Michigan and Florida and have not heard either that wealthy backers were gonna pay for re-votes (I heard that they might) nor that Obama blocked this.

[dkf]

4. Exactly what women's rights and issues are you targeting?

What proposed legislation are you seeking?

[susankh4]

6. I have sent my list of demands to Howard Dean

for what that's worth. It will not be an easy road for them to win me back. Not saying it cannot be done.... but they have a long way to go. By "they" I mean the good ole boy network in the party. The one that would rather have a young, inexperienced man at the helm... than an older, more experienced, woman. I am on to their male aggrandization, and it's not sitting well right now.

I've long subscribed to this moral anchor: "Everybody's Rights, or Nobody's." And while I am happy for the African American segment of our party ... their ascension within the party should not have happened at the expense of Women's. No minority should ever be sent to the "back of the bus" for the sake of another. Let alone thrown under it.

I am watching very closely now.... and I want to see major concessions... for the voting block of 40+ women that has been faithful to the party. And for the voting block that looks upon the Clintons with appreciation, rather than disdain.

One more thing I'll add is: Caroline Kennedy choosing the next Veep means nothing to me. If that is supposed to assauge the Clinton women.... the DNC has a little something surprising coming in November.

[rodeodance]

9. I have sent Howard a hand-written letter and......

have severed my ties with the DNC.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

15. What are your demands?

[Greyskye]

50. Probably to dump Obama and crown Hillary

at the convention. :silly:

[Jersey Devil]

20. I don't understand your attitude

Obama chose to run on his own, which was his right. What would you want them (the Dem establishment) to do, stop him from running because his opponent was a woman? Is it your idea of equality that women should be protected in order to gain true equality?

I'm not trying to be a wise guy or unsympathetic to the fact that there is sexism and discrimination against women, but I just don't understand why you would blame the party for Obama choosing to run.

[susankh4]

40. I'm not blaming anyone.

But the fact is... I hire my politicians. They don't hire me. And I expect them to earn my vote. I don't give it easily.

That is not only my right. It's my responsibility as a citizen in something we call democracy.

[Umbram]

54. Let me explain.

Here goes the "reasoning":

How dare the party not do everything in its power to hold another underrepresented group back such that ours could advance first! They OWE us. Well...we'll show them, how dare they.... Who cares that they are the only party that gives a rat's ass about the issues that are important to us? We'll show them!

[NotThisTime]

21. Demands? Are you kidding? You gain more with pleasantness than with pettiness

And I'm a woman so don't give me this feminist line... you have two choices, if you don't like either one, fine, if you want to support a guy who clearly has never respected women's rights, fine, and if you don't want to vote that's fine too, but don't give this feminist line of crap because your candidate did not win.

[susankh4]

39. I am hiring Obama

not the other way around.

[Tatiana]

34. ***Sigh***

If Clinton had run in 2004, she would have won. But she didn't. Obama's win didn't come at the expense of females. I am a female and decided, after supporting Hillary since her first Senate campaign, that I could no longer abide the tactics of her campaign.

Clinton lost because she ran a bad campaign, had bad advisors, blew through millions of dollars, and could not keep her wayward husband in check like she said she would. If you have to blame someone for Hillary's loss, blame Bill Clinton, not the DNC. She was doing great until he opened his big mouth.

You are not going to hold the party or our nominee hostage. I hope you listen to Hillary on Saturday and follow her lead.

[Arugula Latte]

45. How dare you say that African Americans ascension happened at the expense of women's

Seriously, as a woman, that pisses me off.

Hillary is one woman, not all women. She wasn't a very good candidate to begin with, and she ran a lousy campaign, especially at the beginning. She doesn't automatically get handed the nomination because she's a woman and her last name is "Clinton."

And ... a "list of demands?" ... Oh,please.

[blm]

7. Clintons told us all to sit down and shut up about very serious crimes that tragically came back

at all of us, flying jets into NY buildings and invading a country to fulfill the needs of our fucked up and dishonest oil region foreign policy.

and our fucked up oil region foreign policy.


Some of those who have donated to Clintons' 'foundation' or paid him huge paychecks recently, were named figures in Poppy Bush's illegal operations with BCCI - Jackson Stephens, Marc Rich, Dubai and Saudi royals. The same Dubai money that staked the largest portion of BCCI bank, was the same Dubai money that Bill was helping to get that ports deal the Bushboy was ready to arrange a few years ago. And we know how Marc Rich received favors, though most Dems are still unaware that Rich was a named figure in GHWBush's BCCI and IranContra.

YOU believe men and women don't deserve an accurate accounting of their nation's historic record. YOU believe men and women don't deserve open government as you side with those who close government to you to maintain the secrecy and privilege of those powerful elite who profit the most from those books being kept from you.

Don't hide behind a need for feminism when women are lied to as much as men. IN matters of government we are all CITIZENS FIRSY fighting for the rights of citizens. Every other issue, including women's and children's rights depend on open government not sideshow demagoguery used by people like Bushes and Clintons.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/22/bill-clinton-severs-ties-_n_82616.html

Bill Clinton Severs Ties With Burkle, May Reap $20 Million

Wall Street Journal | John Emshwiller | January 22, 2008 09:29 AM

Former President Clinton stands to reap around $20 million -- and will sever a politically sensitive partnership tie to Dubai -- by ending his high-profile business relationship with the investment firm of billionaire friend Ron Burkle.

Mr. Clinton is negotiating to end his relationship with Mr. Burkle's Yucaipa Cos. as part of a broader effort to protect the presidential campaign of his wife, Sen. Hillary Clinton, from potential conflicts of interest. Details of Mr. Clinton's involvement in Yucaipa and his efforts to unwind it come from documents and interviews with people familiar with the matter.
>>>>>

[BooScout]

10. You need to seriously....

Get over your hatred towards the Clintons. I didn't talk trash talk about Obama in this post and I'll be damned if I'll listen to trash talk from you or anyone else.

And don't accuse me of hiding behind anything. You don't know me from adam and your baseless accusations are nothing more than a personal attack.

Now you can go on ignore...since it's obvious you have nothing to say worth a rat's ass.

[susankh4]

11. They honestly think they are helping Obama

by trashing other Democrats.

Chalk it up to inexpereince and immaturity. Nothing else can explain it.

[BooScout]

12. They had better take us seriously .....

To dismiss me and trash talk me and issues close to my heart is not conducive to unity. The ball is in their and Obama's court. I and many others are watching.

[NotThisTime]

22. Obama's & Clinton's votes are nearly lock step, what is your problem, EXACTLY?

You vote your interests or you don't, that's your choice, but the Democratic party will not be held hostage by you.

[pnorman]

37. "They had better take us seriously ....." Or WHAT?

This?

pnorman

[Umbram]

55. Watching for what?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2675296&mesg_id=2675296

Just curious.

[blm]

14. Chalk it up to 3 decades of reading the National Security Archives. You never read the BCCI report

and you want to pretend those who did are inexperienced. THAT is why Clintons are losing respect - people are experiencing a chance at open government, and too many of us Dems are now aware that the secrecy and privilege of closed government was protected by the Clintons. They support more open government. You don't like it - - tough. Your petulance is no substitute for maturity.

[blm]

13. No - you can't handle the FACTS contained in the post. You can call it trash, but it is all FACTS

about your heroes who screwed over the citizens of the country. You support that just so you can claim some feminist creds? What a disconnect. Supporting Closed government is NOT a feminist position. Open your eyes.

[newmajority]

51. "Former President Clinton stands to reap around $20 million"

Wouldn't that just about cover Hillary's campaign debt? Cool.... problem solved.

[blm]

61. Yep - you got it.

,

[rucky]

8. I think this race snapped the party out of a freaking coma

on equality issues, and in general, we've been mum for too long. The best part is, we busted out of nowhere, and Democratic voters said "it's time". The old-timey good ol' boys still don't know what hit 'em. They're on the sidelines watching as we work out HOW we're going to make history.

[rodeodance]

17. K and REC

[Honeycombe8]

18. As a 50-something white "hard working" woman with feminist leanings since 1968.....

I can tell you that women in America are not treated as second class citizens.

Are we totally there yet? No. But are we treated as second class? Definitely not.

I would like a woman in the W.H. But it wasn't to be this time. Not that woman. Not this year. It could have been, but Hillary's camp made some serious mistakes in her campaign early on, causing her to narrowly lose what a few months ago was a sure thing.

I think the fact that her camp made serious strategic and monetary mistakes is an indication that her leadership skills just weren't what they needed to be, for a President. She picked the wrong people to run her campaign. Obama picked the right people. Her camp underestimated the Obama train coming down the tracks, which was another big mistake.

Hillary's loss was not because she was a woman. It was because the men in her campaign didn't live up to the jobs they were assigned.

Still, she has proven that women are viable presidential candidates, and that women can be tough and go the distance. She accomplished a lot. She may now have a cabinet position. Whatever she does, she will continue to be a major player on the national scene. Women, indeed, have the opportunity to be anything they want to be, if they work hard enough, get an education, and pursue their goals with diligence.

[JTFrog]

19. A class act alright. But surely not the way you mean it. After her class act Tuesday night

she'll be lucky to keep her Senate seat the full term.

Her endorsements of McCain, her assassination remarks, her reprehensible behavior Tuesday night and her entire KITCHEN SINK campaign revealed her lack of class and ethics like a nasty stain under a black light.

No one told you to sit down and shut up. They just told you that your candidate didn't win. But keep waving the victim card, it's now the official Hillary campaign flag.

I'm so sick and tired of the petulant little whiners who try to place the onus of Hillary's failures on all women.

Under the current cognitive dissonance, if you vote for IWR and Kyl-Lieberman and are against banning cluster bombs and refuse to sign the AFC Anti-torture pledge, then you are the Goddess of Peace.

Put the kool-aid down already. Another sip and your "Goddess of Peace" will become the fucking Virgin Mary.

[old mark]

23. She ran a great campaign for the most part

and she lost. Did you want her to get in free bacause she is a woman?
The last few weeks were run on her ego, and she proved she would have made a terrible president, and I am very happy she lost.

Either support the party or go be a republican.
They WILL tell you to sit down and shut up.
mark

[JTFrog]

24. Surely you posted this reply in the wrong spot?

[rodeodance]

26. Grow up. Your school-yard bully post is rude and uncalled for.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

30. you have not grown up I see. More name-calling. and ASSumptions.

[JTFrog]

32. "Few people will miss them when they are gone."

Especially those with the history of name calling and childish calling out.

Yes, I'd say a much longer vacation will be needed.

[BooScout]

33. I see you are doing your best.....

To drive off anyone who possibly wants to find a reason to vote for Obama. Good job there with your nasty spiteful remarks.

[JTFrog]

36. I don't cater to terrorists.

We're not interested in the demands of the petulant children who have been stomping through the garden trying to obliterate the seeds of hope that were planted early in this primary. Those plants have taken root and those who have been nurturing and tending the garden will make sure they grow to their full potential. You can either help tend the garden or get the fuck out of the way.

For every petulant Hillary supporter trying to use their vote as a bargaining chip, we've got half a dozen new democrats to pick up your slack. We don't have any use for the weeds that would like to remain and strangle the life out of the party.

[BooScout]

41. So I take it you aren't interested in unity then?

What a way to be inclusive. off to the ignore list you go.

[paperbag_ princess]

25. I hunted down my lost password to find and rec this op

I have been reading pretty much everyday...I posted for awhile, but when things got nasty and all the Hillary supporters were group ignored I stopped posting figuring what was the point.

I hunted down my password so that I could come and give the 5th rec to this post.

Hillary was and is not perfect ....nor did she run a perfect campaign.

I am happy for this nation that we have a black candidate...it is a good thing....but I believe this election has exposed some serious deficiencies in the democratic party.

It is very scary to me that so many can not even see it.

[smiley_glad_hands]

28. Oh please.

Please give me one example where Obama or his campaign has treated women unfairly or as second class citizens.

Feigned indignance because your candidate, who just happens to be a woman and lost, is what it is.

[Colobo]

29. We need to be united.

[raebrek]

31. My fear is that we will still be saying that in November n/t

[HeraldSquare212]

35. So you have no obligation to help unify the party?

[cap]

38. your hope is my hope...

Now more than ever, I want women's rights and women's issues at the forefront. I am hoping that Obama will make a major speech on women's issues and speak about them as eloquently as he did race. I am hoping that the VP is a major feminist.

I support Obama but the more the campaign went on the more intolerant I have become of personal attacks on women. I disagree with anyone who says that we should not make demands and "ask nicely". We didn't ask nicely during the 70's and we made progress. It's too late to ask nicely. We've been asking nicely since the 80's and we haven't gotten crap except FMLA and more opportunity for women at the BOTTOM of the professional ladders. With the Baby Boom increasing the population of older women, you would think that we should see more women in positions of authority. It hasn't happened in any measure that is proportional to women's share of that particular age demographic.

Let's start with a national strike on child/elder care. I think all female caretakers should show up at their husband's workplace with kids/parents in tow and leave them there for the husbands to deal with. I dont want to hear a word from the men about how righteous they are at home. I want the men to start asking their peers why they aren't doing their share for their families and demand that it stop. Maybe this will end overtime. Maybe guys can leave work on time and have some flex time to deal with their families needs. Maybe they might even agitate for legislation on national child care. Boy, I'll bet the 6 pm curfew on child care with its massive fines would end real quick.

How about the ERA and Pay Equity Act? Guys, don't you want your wife to make money? Or are you really happy about the fact that she doesn't earn as much as you do? Again, I don't want to hear from the men about how righteous they are. I want the men to start asking their peers why the women in their workgroup arent getting the raises and promotions and demand that this crap is stopped. Why are the women getting laid off first or shoved into some support/adjunct position that is on the career slow boat with job assignments that will never lead to promotions/raises. This is career redlining -- steering careers out of certain neighborhoods. Stop the tokenism. Why isn't there a farm team of promotable women? I want this kind of behavior to be made illegal. I want personnel to start doing their jobs.

I am tired of going to Democratic party meetings where the speakers and the team leaders are men and the women are doing the shit work. The party must change too.

I am appalled at what's happened to sex education. It's amazing that we aren't helping young people understand what is going to happen on their marriage night (or before -- depending on their personal viewpoint as to when to start sex). Don't get me started on abortion. It is effectively abolished in certain jurisdictions.

Let's talk about respect. I am tired of watching women ostracized at the workplace. I am tired of watching women being denigrated or ignored. I am tired of waiting for a man to mouth the same words as a woman for those words to be taken seriously.

Bush has stopped enforcing provisions protecting women and no one said a word. There is so much pent up frustration watching our rights erode.

Or, just maybe not. Since the guys arent policing the guys, we, women, need to take these matters into our own hands and brave the storm that arises when we ask for these things.

Please don't tell me I'm angry or that I've got issues. If I have anger, it's because I've been provoked and you are just seeing the natural response to provocation. If I have issues... well, I've just detailed my issues above. Address these issues, and I won't have them anymore. If you don't like the way I've gone about doing things, then, by all means, do it yourself. But get it done.


Yes, there is a bumpy road ahead. Strap in your seat belts. It's gonna be a wild ride... But keep on riding.

[BooScout]

43. I'd K & R your reply if I could.

Excellent points all.

[Umbram]

56. I agree with everything you said

though, I still have no regrets for having voted for Obama.

[cap]

62. BTW I voted for Obama too

[kid a]

42. I'm happy you are open to unite!

Some will never open up to Obama. Thats sad.

[Arugula Latte]

44. I'm sorry, but "a class act all the way" ??

Wow, you have a very different definition of class than I do. To me, a middle-aged white woman, Hillary had the least amount of class of any major candidate I've ever seen. She whined, complained, tried to changed the rules, declared which states and types of voters "counted" and which did not. When she lost officially, she wouldn't exit graciously. She was petulant and petty.

I know it's over, but I'm still furious with her. She really put a damper on Obama's amazing victory Tuesday night.

Just because she's a woman doesn't give her permission to act like she's above the rules and then cry "sexism" over everything.

Equal rights mean women should be able to compete on an even playing field with men, not that we get special treatment just because we are female.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

59. What you said x10...

Expressed perfectly.

[applegrove]

49. There are some divisions in the Democratic Party and we have to make

sure that they are healed. We also have to make sure that the GOP machine and the Karl Rove's out there don't take advantage of us and stir the pot.

[Bensthename]

58. Question

What womens rights issues was Hillary going to engage as apposed to Obama?

[cap]

60. Hillary was the force behind the changes in the Clinton administration

that favored women. And there was a lot...
First. Hiring women at all levels of government. Having the first cabinet that was much more inclusive of women.

Second. Women's Small Business Administration offices in every government department that were there to assist women business owners in getting federal contracts. Helped break up federal contracting roles.

Third. FMLA

Fourth. Access to credit. There were provisions made within the SBA to get women access to bank loans.

Fifth. Access to capital. Promotion of private equity firms that invested in women owned business

Sixth. Along with Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice

As a senator, she introduced the Paycheck Fairness Act to strengthen the penalties associated with wage discrimination, to ensure that the federal government sets a higher standard, and to increase oversight of employers. Along with Senator Murray, she got the Food and Drug Administration to accept the overwhelming recommendation of the medical community and make Plan B (the "morning after" pill) available over the counter.

Finally, her speech: "Women's Rights are Human Rights" http://www.famousquotes.me.uk/speeches/Hillary-Clinton/

Unlike Obama, she is crystal clear on abortion. She has never ducked a vote on the issue. Will appoint pro-choice judges.

[Bensthename]

63. wow, thanks

Very informative.. I bet Obama will get behind any further womens issues Hillary would like addressed.. He is a nice guy that believes in human rights of all genders and colors and nationality...
Thanks again. :hi:

[cap]

64. Obama definitely will have his hands full reversing the Bush administration's war on women

The above list is a start.