I don't hate Hillary, but damn

[cali]

it's really time for her to step back and understand that she and Bill are no longer the leaders of the democratic party. She needs to stop trying to hog the limelight and to take her cues from Obama.

Yes, I'm glad she sent out the email announcing that she'll be formally announcing the end of her campaign on Saturday and endorsing Obama, but it's time for the games to stop. She shouldn't say another word about wanting the vp slot. She should arrange a joint "unity" appearance with Obama, and she should clearly emphasize that her supporters are dishonoring her and the issues she cares about if they vote for McCain or sit it out rather than voting for Obama.

She's had her few days. Hell, she's had longer than that. She's known for months that she wouldn't be the nominee. She's been given great deference by party leaders and SDs.

Hillary should make clear that she's not just stepping back and waiting in the hopes that some dreadful scandal destroys Obama between now and the convention. She can do that easily enough.

I wish I could trust her not to try and sabotage Obama behind the scene. But given her actions, I'm hesitant to do so.

[Colobo]

1. Well said, cali.

[Adelante]

2. I hear you, Cali nt

[NightWatcher]

3. your words are my feelings too

[Marrah_G]

4. She is frigging conceding the race? what more do you want? Blood?

Jesus H. Christ Cali.............Give the woman a break. You all won..... Do you get it? Your guy WON.

Can you stop kicking her now, please?

Or perhaps you could just stop kicking her for shit she hasn't even done yet, but you are sure that she is THINKING about doing............

She was asked if she would accept the VP slot and she said she would if asked. The Media has been the one talking about her as VP- NOT HER.

[joeybee12]

8. Amen..and if this is what they're like in victory...

...can you imagine the explosion come November when he loses?

[Marrah_G]

9. Yup- this time I am not getting emotionally involved

I think I drank for 3 days after Kerry lost.


Wooo go Sox.

[jakem]

10. and im sure you will do what you can to make that a reality.

thanks, "democrat."

[cali]

12. I can imagine your implosion- oh wait I don't have to. I've already

seen it- when Obama wins in November. And sorry, he has an excellent chance of winning. Deal with it.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

40. Way to get behind

our candidate.

So, are you going to work on McSame's campaign?

Have you seen the guy speak?

Why would you think that Obama can not beat that loser?

[cali]

11. There's nothing nasty in my OP, Marrah.

I realize you don't recognize how bizarre and inapropriate her speech was on Tuesday night, and how unseemly it is for her to be publically pushing herself as vp, but I disagree with you there. I'm not kicking her at all, let alone kicking her for something she hasn't done. You seem to feel that she's above any and all scrutiny and criticism. Fine. I don't.

[ruggerson]

16. you're wrong and Marrah is right

this OP was completely unnecessary, but hey knock yourself out.

[SeaLyons]

43. Punitive appeals to a lot of people....

they enjoy condemning and accusing, and putting their know-it-all opinion out there. They get a special joy out of kicking someone that's already down. Just abusive bastards all of them.

[loyalsister]

72. How is Hillary down?

She very well may be, and it would be expected, but she is not showing it. She is flexing power.

She doing everything she can to keep herself and the competition in the newscycle.
Obama supporter's are reasonably upset by it.

Is she pouting and being a baby?
If not,
Is she simply crazy?
Is she trying to how strong the woman in this race is?
Is she flexing Clinton muscle? DLC muscle? White privilege?

I worked on a campaign where a man didn't concede when he ran against a woman.

Of course male privilege, baby, flexing, and jerk were the words that went through my head.
What would you have thought.

I happen to think that she is trying to use the closeness of this election to her advantage for some reason that has not yet become clear and it is insulting to Obama.

I have no idea what she is doing yet. I am inclined to believe that she is attempting to flex privilege.
I resented "flexing power" in the other election and I resent it in this one.

[SeaLyons]

73. OMG.....who knows what she's doing....

planning some evil destruction I'm sure...

you guys are pathetic. :silly:

[beac]

76. I "condemn" Hillary for ALL of her crimes against the Democratic party, yes indeed I do,

As for "accusing," your use of "abusive bastards" pretty much says it all about your insight, or lack thereof,

[JuniperLea]

87. Yep... eom

[DeschutesRiver]

58. You are completely accurate

I saw how strange it was. If she doesn't want commentary about her behavior, she should either quit doing these things, or perhaps quit politics. It is not Ms. Clinton's private banana republic to rule as she pleases - it is a democracy, and surprise, comments, questons, disagreements, and opinions are allowed. Encouraged. Even ones that are offensive to the Clintons. They will be asked questions - they can rail, whine, refuse to let reporters close to either Chelsea or Bill (that one surprised me) but need to give a final answer to the voters or be cut out of the equation. I think they are finding that simply a shocking concept.

I find it ironic that Ms. "Ready from Day One" can't be ready to leave the stage on the likely end date of Tuesday. If she was this unprepared to act decisively and like a leader the moment the last state election ended, which you could see coming for weeks at least, then how was she going to answer that 3 am phone call, handle the day after a Katrina or 9/11? I have the answer now - people would be told to "back off and give her space. This is a hard difficult thing to do. It is exhausting, let her rest and take it all it first". I remember how dear Bill couldn't leave the tarmac on his last flight out, as a way to say f-u to that Shrub holding his celebration. No, don't like Bush, but Bill's long leave taking was a freak show, and perhaps looks to be a Clinton family genetic flaw/legacy, ha ha.

And if Ms. Experience doesn't know better than to push for a VP slot with public pressure like this, to the guy holding the cards? Apparently a lot of what went on in her dh's presidency went right over her head, and she was more of a First Lady/Hostess who let her spouse do the heavy lifting. The way she approached the VP thing is the act of a political neophyte.

All she is doing now is confirming for me that while I really want a woman pres, she definitely wasn't the one - I'd be having to explain her actions/words, as an American, more than I currently do about Bush's screwups. It was bad enough hearing her fears exposed when she gleefully chirped about "oblierating" foreign (ME) countries if she felt like it - loser. Couple of weak individuals, her and that Bush. There have been women leaders worldwide with real character, real strength. When we get one for the US, I want her to be in that league.

Right now, it is Sen. Obama's time, with an election to win if he can do things right and stay quick on his feet. He is up to the challenge.

[seaglass]

19. Total humiliation is all that will satisfy them. n/t

[shadowknows69]

65. She brought humiliation upon herself

By hanging on until party leaders and her own supporters had to intervene on behalf of the party.

[seaglass]

69. so you must be jumping for joy then. n/t

[shadowknows69]

70. I don't take pleasure in anyone's pain

[sui generis]

22. I think most of the frenzied rabies people yesterday finally

got tuckered out. It's so hard to keep hating one of our own that the only way they can keep it up is the same way you keep smoking crack. Habit inextricable from addiction: chemical self-esteem.

I wish Gore and Kerry had fought as hard as Hillary instead of throwing in the towel because of "public pressure" (from within our own fucking party!) and this would all be academic. Of course there's no guarantee that the towers would still be standing or that we wouldn't be in nearly the same pile of dookie with gas and the economy, but I doubt we'd be in Iraq and we would have Afghanistan under control instead of reverting to an even worse state than it was before they started plane bombing us.

It occurred to me this morning on the way in that the open hatred for Hillary by a great many people on DU betrays an utter lack of understanding of the political process and of human nature. I'm not sure I am comfortable having these particular fellow democrats tell me that I need to do anything or that I should accept their opinion about any human at all.

Emotional intelligence is entirely and utterly absent here and of all the places that might occur, I would expect FR to host this kind of sociopathy, not DU.

I have been humbled. I am truly challenged to think well or generously of DU today. But like any "wound" it is a wound I am sure will heal. As someone else said, the post-primary ban-hammer will eventually start making the rounds. I have no guess what side of that hammer I'll fall on, since I doubt I'll be changing my opinion of the performance here.

I want our ticket to win. I have serious doubts that we will, and all the enthusiasm in the world is not going to make up for that, nor all the snarkiness either.

I see the same people who hate Hillary as rabidly as freepers on here don't want her anywhere near the VP nomination, regardless of the fact that Obama cannot win the red states unless he can sway McCain democrats to vote for him and that's going to be very difficult if we've alienated their first choice: Hillary.

I see people on here willing to throw away those votes claiming that any non-Obama person is not a real democrat. I see people willing to cut their face off to spite their nose.

I sure hope our party comes to its senses and I sure hope our party's constituents and supporters learn some rationality and civility before it's too late. What am I talking about.

This is DU, not the real world. Thank gods for that.

[BlooInBloo]

28. "I see people on here [...] claiming that any non-Obama person is not a real democrat"

Link to a post that claims that, please?

[sui generis]

30. sweetheart where have you been

I have been called a whole buncha worse things than non-democrat in fact on that presumption alone in just the past week.

Maybe because you never offered an opinion that was balanced or counter to just shlepping along behind Obama, you never had any encounters with the nastiest people here. Even trying to be reasonable and fair and equal in consideration there were people that just swung in from the rafters with the incendiaries. One member even threated to have me "removed from the party unless I towed the line" (their mispelling not mine) and the mods deleted my response and left theirs.

It was truly fucking ugly Bloo, all the way down to how the mods handled it on that particular thread.

If you don't want to believe me I don't care, but I'm not lying to you. I don't have an agenda that requires such a tactic even if I were that kind of person.


edited to add, even just some of the subject titles in GDP over the past week have indicated that scorched earth view.

[BlooInBloo]

32. So no link to anybody claiming what you SAID they were claiming?

EDIT: Clarified subject.

[sui generis]

33. no link because I'm a big big liar

:eyes:

read the fucking GDP threads. Or read what I said, again.

[BlooInBloo]

34. Gotcha - thanks!

[sui generis]

39. because I am evil

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6180514&mesg_id=6180514

It's in there half a dozen times Bloo, but you will have to read. Now that you have at least one link (and I guess I could just go back through the 48 hours of ugliness or just give you my login and let you read my mail) . . .

No Doubt you will now ask me to do interpretive dance.

Now about the other stuff you are completely ignoring in my original post. Anything? I take your silence to be total agreement.

Told you I was evil.

[BlooInBloo]

41. Which post # claims what you said they claim?

You said posters claimed:

"I see people on here <...> claiming that any non-Obama person is not a real democrat"

[sui generis]

35. hey guys, Bloo wants links. Let's get him some links

He believes Obama supporters are sweet and full of light and holiness. Please feel free to add your own links as well in this subthread where you have been told to get in line, or that your vote doesn't matter anyway or even telling you that if you're not with Obama your against the party.

I'll have to do some research for Bloo, who apparently wants me to run off on a tangent rather than answer a single gods damned thing I wrote.

[BlooInBloo]

37. Please ensure that the link exhibit the poster claiming what you SAID they claimed. Thanks!

[sui generis]

42. thuh poster

Is a democrat who is sick of stupidity, and especially stupid shit like this.

Please note, bloo has not addressed a single issue I said. I suppose that means that except for the part where I was lying about how freakish Obama supporters can get towards thuh other posters that despise the mob, because we know how polite Obama FOLLOWERS are (I did make that distinction), he completely agrees with everything else I said.

What a maroon.

[BlooInBloo]

44. You said that posters making certain claims exist. I'm just looking for one.

[sui generis]

45. go away

stalker

I remember you now. Seriously, move along. You have nothing to say, especially to me.

[BlooInBloo]

46. "Stalker"? hahaha!

[sui generis]

47. yes, stalker

anyway what about this:

I think most of the frenzied rabies people yesterday finally
got tuckered out. It's so hard to keep hating one of our own that the only way they can keep it up is the same way you keep smoking crack. Habit inextricable from addiction: chemical self-esteem.

I wish Gore and Kerry had fought as hard as Hillary instead of throwing in the towel because of "public pressure" (from within our own fucking party!) and this would all be academic. Of course there's no guarantee that the towers would still be standing or that we wouldn't be in nearly the same pile of dookie with gas and the economy, but I doubt we'd be in Iraq and we would have Afghanistan under control instead of reverting to an even worse state than it was before they started plane bombing us.

It occurred to me this morning on the way in that the open hatred for Hillary by a great many people on DU betrays an utter lack of understanding of the political process and of human nature. I'm not sure I am comfortable having these particular fellow democrats tell me that I need to do anything or that I should accept their opinion about any human at all.

Emotional intelligence is entirely and utterly absent here and of all the places that might occur, I would expect FR to host this kind of sociopathy, not DU.

I have been humbled. I am truly challenged to think well or generously of DU today. But like any "wound" it is a wound I am sure will heal. As someone else said, the post-primary ban-hammer will eventually start making the rounds. I have no guess what side of that hammer I'll fall on, since I doubt I'll be changing my opinion of the performance here.

I want our ticket to win. I have serious doubts that we will, and all the enthusiasm in the world is not going to make up for that, nor all the snarkiness either.

I see the same people who hate Hillary as rabidly as freepers on here don't want her anywhere near the VP nomination, regardless of the fact that Obama cannot win the red states unless he can sway McCain democrats to vote for him and that's going to be very difficult if we've alienated their first choice: Hillary.

I see people on here willing to throw away those votes claiming that any non-Obama person is not a real democrat. I see people willing to cut their face off to spite their nose.

I sure hope our party comes to its senses and I sure hope our party's constituents and supporters learn some rationality and civility before it's too late. What am I talking about.

This is DU, not the real world. Thank gods for that.

___________

Please take your hands out of your pants long enough to address any of this.

[BlooInBloo]

48. I *did* address "any of this". The 7th-to-last sentence, specifically.

[sui generis]

50. I am moving on

a wise person here on DU once told me that if you choose to argue with idiots you are an idiot. So my apologies for stooping to your level, but I'm running along now.

[Marrah_G]

56. You are arguing with ignored again.

[JuniperLea]

90. That's one beautiful thing about Cali's hate threads...

It lines up the hater list nicely. It's really the only reason I don't put her on ignore.

[beac]

77. Yeah, your "frenzied rabies people" comment should go a LONG

way toward the "healing" you long for. :crazy:

[sui generis]

82. it was truly ugly yesterday

and those "frenzied rabies" people are the ad hominem folks, as you have seen right here on this thread. They have nothing to say, no matter how many times you ask.

I wonder why not a single contrarian person in this thread has addressed a single thing I said.

Don't you? I guess I should reserve further judgement myself, but I have not been pleasantly surprised yet.

Edited to add:

I am not seeing people articulate why they dislike Hillary based on policy or strategy if she's VP. I was just seeing and still seeing journal and GDP threads like "Hillary is such a crybaby" "Hillary is a child, look at these 35 five year old videos" blah blah blah.

Seriously. I'm not asking for anyone to do anything but address real strategy in the real world in a realistic way. Saying you won't support Obama if he chooses Hillary? What am I supposed to conclude from that after all this ugliness? It's not healing I'm after - just waking up and dropping this borrowed reflexive irrational hatred of the woman. It is bizarre. I feel like I'm in the middle of a mob completely under the pull of mob psychology, and that's a dangerous place to be if you're not a mob type.

I thought we were a collection of individuals, not robots. That is all.

[beac]

93. Hillary CANNOT be the VP because:

1) Her comments about how She and McCain had "crossed the threshold" for CIC and Obama "just gave a speech" are already being used in commercials by the GOP. Obama CANNOT have a running mate whose is on tape calling him unqualified.

2) Hillary constantly "mis-speaks" and then blames others for her mistakes. Obama CANNOT have a running mate who will be screwing up on the campaign trail and then making it worse by refusing to admit it.

3) She has consistently exhibited BAD judgement when choosing her advisors. Obama CANNOT have a running mate who can't recognize bad advice when she hears it.

4) Hillary has been unable to contain Bill from shooting his mouth off and making a fool of himself. Obama CANNOT have a running mate whose husband is a political liability (not to mention the high likelihood that Bill would constantly be trying to butt in and take over.)


I don't "hate" Hillary and most of the posters I've seen don't hate her either. We are simply worn out by her nonsense and don't want her and her drama anywhere near the White House again.

If Hillary intends to keep her word, she can be a GREAT help by working on turning her "If not Hillary, then McCain" supporters back onto the right path. If she can't do that, then she's pretty much useless b/c all other Democrats will be voting for Obama no matter what.

[sui generis]

95. I think that's up to Obama and Hillary

And the drama is all here. When you look at something with such extraordinary scrutiny and speculation in the absence of real firsthand inside information the tiniest details take on disproportional meaning.

Ultimately though, que sera que sera at this point regardless of how we feel about it. I truly believe that if Obama thinks she's right, she'll be on the ticket. He has his faults from my point of view, but strategy is not one of them, and that's because I doubt he would ever yield strategy to sentiment.

All that aside, let's get this election in gear now! I was listening to McCain this morning blathering on about supporting the everglades restoration after voting down the restoration bill. Whatever koolaid we occasionally sip here about our nonfavorites - those guys in pugville are championship high diving high colonic fast drip main line koolaid sucking bug eating buttmonkeys, with apologies to buttmonkeys everywhere for offending.

:evilgrin:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

24. I want her to commit to standing fully behind Obama.

And then I'd appreciate it if she started beating the shit out of McCain.

[Bake]

79. I think she will.

This is Thursday. Day after tomorrow, she'll do just that. If she doesn't, as a supporter, I'll be upset.

Bake

[Arkansas Granny]

27. I don't think they will be happy with anything less than public humiliation. Maybe some

sackcloth and ashes would do the trick.

[Bake]

80. Some will NEVER be happy with anything less.

Ignore them; they are sad little people. Let's get on with the business at hand - putting our Democratic nominee IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!!

Bake

[JuniperLea]

91. Sackcloth and ashes to this crowd is foreplay...

Leading to the inevitable whips and chains.

Internet Dominatrix!

[DianeK]

31. i understand the emotion of all of this..

but I think what disappointed me most was the disgraceful behavior on Tuesday night. When McAuliffe introduced her as the 'next president of the United States'..that was just embarrassing, was it not? Then McAuliffe showing up on The Daily Show still proclaiming her to be in the White House in January and then again he showed up on Morning Joe with Gin bottle in hand still unable to accept the facts...my criticism in not so much with Hillary but with the pathetic cronies unwilling to accept that they are without a job.

[weezie1317]

59. She doesn't have to concede but to help our party, she needs to work with and rally behind Obama. ()

[Marrah_G]

61. And she has been stating that that is what she is going to do and urging others to do.

Some people won't be happy unless se winds up living in a cave somewhere eating berries and that is only because they are anti-death penalty.

[weezie1317]

68. Maybe there are a few extremists somewhere like that, but that is not how MOST democrats are. ()

[eShirl]

66. I'll believe it when i see it

[crankychatter]

67. She's permitting very public pressure to drop out and keeping her name in the hat

Endorsement ?

*wink wink*

[beac]

75. No one is "kicking" her...

They are merely pointing out how poorly she is behaving and how much that selfish, asinine behavior has served to bring out the WORST in the many of her followers-- ie. "If not Hillary, McCain!"

Hillary has always contended that she is "tough," so if she can;t stand to hear a little truth about herself... well then, TOUGH!

[JuniperLea]

83. This is the worst bad loser OP I've seen today...

Jesus H. Christ indeed... and I'll raise you a cracker!

I don't get it. What is to be gained by this behavior? Are some people so low themselves that this makes them fell bigger and better? Can you imagine the work that could be done on Obama's behalf if all this energy were to be directed for the good?

I just wish I could see as many "let's pick every little word apart that spews from McCain's mouth" OPs as I do Hillary hate OPs. There is no point.

This is getting really stupid.

[hendo]

92. Yes, she did good

and I appreciate that she conceded rather than dragging this out. She did the appropriate thing given the circumstances. I hope that we can count on your support this fall, but if not thats fine too. Some of us Obama supporters have been rather nasty (rightfully or not) so I understand your aversion.

[WillyT]

5. Yep...

K & R !!!

:kick:

[joeybee12]

6. Yeah, well, she never said ONE word about wanting to be VP...

...she said she would be open to it "if it helped Dems win in November." The media twisted and ran with that, which is to be expected, and what is also to be expected is that Obama supporters simply like to have their own opinions echoed back at them, without ever looking at an issue from another side. Hilary has run the closest second in history...the primaries ended Tuesday night, she's dropping out Friday or Saturday...you act like she's been hanging on for 100 years.

[Jersey Devil]

13. Why was Lanny Davis on TV with a petition Tues night for her to be veep?

Please be honest about it. She wanted the veep spot and let it be known that she wanted it. Nothing was "twisted" by the media.

[sui generis]

29. please articulate exactly why you don't want her to be veep

or is it just still a personality thing? We're not trying to win Obama voters with that strategy by the way, so your opinion of her personality is irrelevant.

We want the democratic party to win the election. There is a reasonable assumption that Hillary will pick up the grudging supporters who can and are "McCain Democrats" who will not vote for Obama and Al Sharpton. They're not a myth dude. There are democrats who don't like gays too AT ALL - and that's not a myth. I'll be the first person to say if it would help a pro-equal rights person in the presidential slot have a bible thumper in the VP slot to get the conservative on-the-fencers, then do it. That was an extreme example, but my point being that Hillary would likewise be an effective strategic choice.

I'm more worried about the Obama total koolaid crew (that's clearly only a small percent of his supporters) NOT voting for Obama out of their hatred of Hillary on that ticket. What does that say about their political acumen?

[blm]

7. Obama will be wise to not absorb ANY of her loyalists into his campaign. Choose only support staff

that didn't sell their souls to work for the campaign. Hopefully, that will include Pete Daou, since I never was convinced he went to work for Hillary campaign because he believed in her, just that he believed she'd be the nominee and he wanted to help shape the agenda to be more progressive.

But, PLEASE BARACK, NO LOYALISTS. Whenever a Clinton loyalist gets into any other campaign bad things happen, secrets are no longer secrets, and the sabotage of the campaign is a price too high. Ask Gore, Kerry and Ned Lamont. They learned the hard way.

[BlooInBloo]

17. Keep in mind that it was her top staff that intervened with the uncommitted senate members....

to put a stop to silly-season.

[Tatiana]

21. Yeah. If it turns out Wolfson led the charge, I'm gonna have to revise my opinion of him. n/t

[blm]

57. Some may have seen their own futures in the toilet, but some can only see Hillary2012.

.

[Captain Hilts]

15. You've sure generated a lot of Hillary hating here. What if you had hated her? nt

[havocmom]

53. Many times, cali has come to HRC's defense when some posts were outta line

Frankly, for quite a while, many of us thought cali was a serious HRC supporter. As things heated up and some of the more irrational HRC supporters took to using personal attacks to attempt to intimidate critics of HRC into silence, cali waded into the fray to point out the tactics. More like a referee than a 'Hillary hater'. If one side committed more fouls, stands to reason they get more whistles blown at them. And one side HAS committed more fouls.

And STILL, the more irrational HRC supporters are using personal attack to attempt intimidation of legitimate criticism.

What part of 'won't be a doormat, won't be silent when irrational personal attacks replace civil and fact based discussion' is so fucking objectionable to you? Cuz that is the bulk of what some here have branded as 'Hillary hating'. This crap that if someone dares to have an opinion other than that of the more rabid HRC supporters, they MUST be 'haters' of 'bashers' smacks of the same totalitarian censorship bush/cheney bots practice with 'with us or with the terraists.

Why do you hate the rights of others to have take their own stands? Why is that so threatening to you?

[FatDave]

63. Hell yes she did.

I remember Cali being one of Hillary's biggest defenders. We exchanged words many times back when I supported Edwards and she had yet to make a choice. Her words were always more calm and rational than mine. Sometimes she seemed almost zen-like. I'm glad we eventually ended up on the same team.

[midnight]

18. Does anyone have the official no of delegates that Obama is

leading Hillary by? One more question. And how many more delegates are in play?

[Jersey Devil]

26. You can find the list here

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/superdelegate-list.html

But the delegates are not "in play". Once Hillary formally concedes Saturday what will happen is that virtually all of the super delegates left will commit to Obama and most of the Hillary supers will feel free to switch to him as well.

[midnight]

52. Thanks, I have to leave my computer, but will study this site later.

[hokies4ever]

20. She hasn't earned my trust either

I hope Bill and Hillary realize that the media will be looking for some juicy gossip to come out of their mouths, so hopefully they (especially Bill) will keep the criticism of Obama to a minimum.

[BeyondGeography]

23. Actually, she's going out with a whimper compared with what she thought would happen

The party is rallying behind Obama, not her, something she never thought would happen so quickly. Her own people have maneuvered to get her out of the race, another thing she never saw coming.

To her credit, it took her all of about 18 hours to figure this thing out. That was about 18 hours too many for a lot of us, but after spending a good part of her life to try and get what Obama now has, I suppose she was entitled to some tone-deafness.

[Shae]

94. I believe she thought . . .

that in August, her "18 million supporters" would carry her on their shoulders into the convention in Denver.

[IsItJustMe]

25. I think you are just going to have to lower your expectations with regards to Hillary. Hillary is

about Hillary, PERIOD. That's what this whole election has taught me. She will not do the right thing, unless forced to, which has happened.

At this point, you are kidding yourself if you expect much at all from Hillary in the form of grace or honesty. Just the way it is. We will have to deal with that and win this thing, despite Hillary.

[Saturday]

36. You don't hate Hillary? You could have fooled me. nt

[Tatiana]

38. We shouldn't trust her. Because she's proven that she just can't do what it takes.

Meaning boosterate Obama to the four corners of this nation and be his hugest, most loyal advocate.

I don't think she has it in her to do that. It's too bad. Because all kitchen sink, scorched earth tactics aside - Hillary kicked some ass.

She kicked the media's ass.

She kicked the Democratic party's ass for a minute.

She was kicking Obama's ass for a hot second.

People hounded her about quitting the race and she was all like "fuck all y'all... I ain't quitting!"

I have to admit, Hillary was the sort of "ride or die chick" we need. There is no one else in this country like her.

If only she chose to use her powers for good instead of evil...

[hayu_lol]

49. Quitting or not quitting is up to Hillary...

it is not up to the MSM, it is not up to the screaming hordes on this or any other site, it is up to her.

She is not conceding so much as suspending her campaign.

The other guy, Mr. Clean, has won half the party. Whether he gains any of the other half is yet to be seen.

The fellow, that old time Chicago machine pol Sen. Obama, has only 'clinched' the nom at this point. He has not won anything as yet.

Pencil-necked Reid, Madame Pelosi(an individual we have all been happy with)and Dean have linked arms to bring this to a close so that their choice(hmmm, impeachment is off the table)can be a shoe-in. Oh yes, Democracy in action to be sure.

Obama himself said that he will 'look into' the matter of Bush and the commission of crimes provided that it can be proven that BushCo committed any.

And, what was the secret little conference in the senate between Obama and Lieberman a short while back? What deals are cooking with our number one Quisling.

It ain't over till the GE is over...so please guys, don't try holding your breath.

[Tatiana]

51. Wait! Come back! I think you dropped some marbles... n/t

[havocmom]

54. LOL, what, she who pouts and wants all the votes to count is the decider? What about the VOTERS?

WE decide who is out and who is in. Or is this more evidence that her concern for voters only covers voters who voted for her?

Not over until the GE is over? Oh, do take a vacation. SHE CAN'T RAISE MONEY! It's over even if she thinks she can pull a lieberman. What, you think Obama will break campaign finance laws to bail her out, clean her campaign debt slate so she can try again?

Seriously, vacation time.

[windbreeze]

62. So let me understand this post.....

It's obvious you are a Clinton supporter, which is fine....but it's obvious you know that Obama supporters are leery of Clinton, and her "real" intentions....they all feel they have pretty good reasons for their feelings(after that speech on Tuesday night, I almost have to agree)...so instead of saying they should trust her, and giving reasons why you feel that way....you make less than stellar statements about the Democratic leadership, then go on to stoke the fires about how they should be leery of her?....which is good.....how??

I DO agree with one thing, that until a Democrat sits in the WH, the fat lady doesn't sing...but that goes for all Democrats, not just one...wb

[Owl]

55. K&R

[TheDebbieDee]

60. Don't sweat the small stuff, people.............

Let's choose our battles more carefully and conserve our energy to fight and rebutt the repuke slime that we KNOW they will sling at our candidate.

[DangerDave921]

64. Michelle's secret tape (IF it existed)

I think a voice analysis should be done to make sure it's not Hillary doing an impression. LOL

Think of all the SNL material being generated right now!

[Bake]

81. That's unproductive and uncalled for.

We've got serious business at hand. We've got a Democratic nominee to elect, and not a lot of time to do it. Let's do that instead of throwing grenades.

Bake

[blues90]

71. What more do you what from Hillary?

Look she took a real beating form the beginning of these insane primaries and she took it and got close to the same about of votes as Obama.

She never got a free ride , it was endless smearing from day one.

If Obama got this he would have not been able to make it.

Most of all to use hate and hateful smearing which was the only thing I saw for the most part that boosted Obama.


If it were based on policy they are not much different , it was the endless taking her down that gave Obama the edge.

People may call this politics but it is pure crap that what it takes to win is to flame the opponent.

Much more was based on what Bill did than Hillary.

All that crap about her suggesting Obama should be assassinated , people are insane to think that , all that was is reading something into something out of shear ignorance and insanity.

She had every right to go out there for the people who supported her just like Obama did.

Most of you people can't handle a fair campaign and will do anything no matter how low it gets to get the big win.

And still because Hillary does not do what you feel she should do she is still a monster.

I would really like to see what anyone of you who slammed her would do if this happened to you at your job and in a way I hope it does.

[EFerrari]

85. What a lovely sentiment. I want her to concede and congratulate Obama

like an adult who can handle being in the kitchen very comfortably -- as she has claimed. If she can't do that, well, that's just sad.

[apocalypsehow]

74. K & R. n/t.

[SoCalDem]

78. Yep.. she had MONTHS more of the spotlight than she deserved

WE all knew she had no real shot...since.....March 4..

No one's "bubble" is that airtight.. She should have had that concession speech written LONG AGO..and she should have delivered it after she did not get more delegates than he did in Texas..

By now, Obama would be well-rested, have his choices made, and would have had time to travel abroad like McCain did..and Hillary's bruised feelings would have been comforted by now, and she could be campaigning WITH him..

and think of all the ugliness that would never have happened

[blues90]

96. I don't agree at all .

In policics as they are anything can happen.

I don't feel it is fair to the people who happen to like Hillary to not be allowed a chance to vote. If she were way behind with seh was not then seh would have dropped out but people wanted her to drop outr long before and since the fist Hillary drop out thing began she got a lot of larger states and won these votes.

Does this mean that all people who happen to like Hillary are low class ignorant un-educated fools?

This is not the first time this has happened yet all other who took it all the way to the convention who were further behind than Hillary were never dragged through the mud.

I don't care what anyone has to say of how they choose to spin it, thyis Hillary smear was done to get Obama in and it was done in many cases by Obama operatives who can go to any site and bring their smears . I'm not saying Hillary did not have her people but from what I see on this site alone , most Hillary supporters have left long ago. They got sliced and diced each time they came here.

People talk about turning pages and making history and hope and all this new change means nothing if the reactions of the people show their reflection in this manner. This is how people show their true colors and this is the sad and sick part.

[JuniperLea]

84. I don't hate Hillary, BUT

Why do all Hillary haters have a big but?

[ccharles000]

86. She is getting out and supporting Obama.

I think no matter what she does some will always criticize her.

[sui generis]

89. habit

the less people understand about politics, people and reality, the more weight they give to irrational thinking about character flaws, hairdos, and mannerisms.

Every time I see someone blathering nonsense about any candidate without offering an opinion on policy I KNOW without a doubt they have nothing of substance to say. But good grief they say a bunch of nothing a lot. Some idea that passion makes up for ignorance.

Problem is, you get enough of those kind of people together and they will drown out the rest of us, and given a chance probably burn us at the stake too, figuratively, supporters of either or both candidates.

Problem number two is when you make an observation like this people you aren't talking about swing in from the rafters and get outraged because they feel like they're being persecuted, which is irrational too. Crazy people: you suspect you know who you are. Calm down, ratchet it back, remember what it was like to feel like you belonged to something you could talk details and facts and figures about in support of rather than against, and get back there please. We are after all supposed to be on the same side.

The rest of us grownups, I think we've always agreed to get along.

[skooooo]

88. she's whack