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Zenmaster Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:23 PM
Original message
New Poster with a few Points seldom(never?) brought up on TV
I'm a new poster here. I'm actually a registered Independant, not Democrat, so I've never had much reason to be here and I also didn't vote for Barak Obama in the primary. I will be voting for Obama in the General, however.

I've continually seen a bunch of things repeated by the media, as well as Clinton supporters, that seem Extremely intellectually dishonest to me. I feel somebody should clarify as soon as they are mentioned, but nobody ever does. I'm not somebody that calls into radio shows, or until today even posts on political boards, but these things seem like blantant and intentional misrepresentations that should be pointed out.

First - The Hillary Clinton supporters that repeated appear on these radio shows, or online, that say the reason that they will vote for John McCain is because the ruling in Michigan and Florida left them with only a half a vote, means that the Democratic Party is unfair.

Newsflash - The half vote scenario was called "The Republican Solution" for a reason. If that's legitimately your reason, you must be ignorant of the fact that you are switching your vote to a Party that also punished Florida by giving them half delegates.

Second - "Hillary Clinton has 18 million displaced supporters."

Voters are not all angry Hillary supporters. The majority of people that voted for Hillary will vote for Obama. The people that post online, call into talk shows and travel to protests, are extremists. They aren't representative of the majority of Hillary voters. Angry, rabod Hillary supporters that want to vote for McCain are closer to representing thousands of people than they are millions.

Third - This one is Sean Hannity's latest mantra. Obama "limped across the finish line" and would not have beaten Hillary if Wright and Pflegar situations happened before the election began.

This ones a little more complex, but a total misrepresentation of reality. I believe that Hillary very well might have won, if she had came on with the same strategy she used over the past couple months, from the beggining. She was a heavy favorite going into this thing.

But she made majorly stupid miscalculations early. They, somehow, forgot that the Democratic primary doesn't have all winner take all States and in their own strategy they calculated things like giving her all of California's delgates in their own projections. A really stupid error. For that reason, she blew off the caucuses, and Obama was able to capitalize.

If she ran the campaign the same way, the same thing would have happened, regardless of Wright & Pflegar. Even after those comments, Obama has won by big margins in very white states, like Oregon & Montana. Wright & Pflegar scare Regan Democrats, but those were swinging Clintons way anyway. They would have had no effect on the primary, had Hillary ran it the same way.

Furthermore, its REALLY not a fair characterization to call it limping in to the finish line. Obama made some decisions to put his efforts into different areas, over the last couple months, just like Hillary did with the caucus states. Only Obama's strategy worked, in getting him the nomination. I think, with hindsight, you might argue that he would have been better off campaigning more in places like West Virginia and Kentucky so as to appear stronger, he made decisions not to, as he knew exactly what his margin for error was in this thing.

On top of that, Obama had to fight off McCain attacks during this time. McCain was campaigning against Obama. Hillary was campaigning against Obama. Obama was campaigning against McCain.

How much of Hillary's late surge was also related to the fact that nobody was campaigning against her once it became clear that Obama was going to win this thing? We'll never know.

Republican mouthpieces like Sean Hannity should be more concerned that Obama leads McCain in the polls right now. Because in the heat of the Wright/Pflegar fiasco he's still seen as a better prospect than their guy.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Very good points all. And your last sentence bears repeating:
Republican mouthpieces like Sean Hannity should be more concerned that Obama leads McCain in the polls right now. Because in the heat of the Wright/Pflegar fiasco he's still seen as a better prospect than their guy.

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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. a fair characterization
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. I love logic based analysis sans spin - Keep it coming.
.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. They both ran good campaigns. I enjoyed every minute of it.
Polls in the last week of May showed either of them capable of beating McCain.

They're good candidates.

Let's roll!

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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm so glad you weren't raised on TV
I think you wind up having a longer attention span and also a more critical eye for what passes as "news". Very good insights, especially the last three paragraphs. Thanks for this post and welcome to DU!
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. :)
:hi:
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. Amen!!! And I leave it at that. Voice of reason.
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BrklynLib at work Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Excellent post. The truth has such a nice, clear ring to it.
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NatBurner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. hannity is scared shitless
rush too

great analysis, btw
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. You're assuming those blowhards actually have convictions
What they really hear is Ka-Ching! because nothing will make the money flow in faster than having a liberal to bash for the next 4 (minimum) years. They will really be able to fleece the dittoheads with thinly veiled racist rants. Clinton made Rush a multi-millionaire.
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genna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. Welcome Independent minded person! We look forward to hearing what you have to say
I joined when I could not stand listening to another talking point in the primary a couple of months ago.

Since we are trying to unite, I will say it is good to hear from you and your points whether they are stated and refuted in the MSM are correct.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. Excellent points and welcome to DU
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. Newbies Aren't Supposed To Post Intelligent Threads Here Yet...
I'll be keeping my eyes on you!




















B-)

Welcome to DU.

K&R
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Alter Ego Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. Pfleger will be useless to the Republicans because he was mocking Hillary
not McCain.

Wright might prove to be a little more useful, but the majority of the country's so sick of seeing him on TV that if Republican PACs try to scare voters with him people will just roll their eyes.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hey, y'all newbies are putting us oldies to shame. Co-sign and RECOMMENDED.
Very astute analysis.

:toast:

Oh yeah, welcome to DU :hi:
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. Excellent points and Welcome to DU!
Good analysis of those talking points.

Recommended.
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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
16. Welcome, Friend! Keep your powder dry and your shiite wired tight!
You'll be just fine !
:patriot:
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. Obama had to campaign against..
Mccain,Hillary&Bill and the media..
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Puzzler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. The "Hillary finishing strong" argument...
... seems to me to be more of an illusion created by the actual order of the individual states' primaries. For example, everyone was expecting Hillary do very well in West Virginia, Kentucky and Puerto Rico. But when she won those primaries, it was touted as a big "Hillary comeback".
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