I still hate her

[mudesi]

It being over doesn't change what she did during the last 3 months. Asking us to suddenly start liking and to forgive Hillary Clinton is like asking the victim of a mugging to suddenly forgive the mugger. If the mugger does his time, if the mugger apologizes and does something constructive and is truly remorseful, then the victim may forgive and forget, but is under no obligation to do so.

I still want her to lose her senate seat to a non DLC, liberal Democrat. I want that for every conservative Democrat, but her especially after what we've just witnessed, and why not start at the top? You slay a dragon by cutting off the head, I say.

As for her supporters, they don't really exist anymore, because she is no longer a candidate in the Democratic primary and will (hopefully) no longer be actively undermining the Democratic nominee . There is no such thing as a "Hillary supporter", only an Obama supporter or a McCain supporter, and anybody who accuses me of being unable to "let it go" because of this post is not understanding that fundamental point.

I don't have anything to "let go", I'm simply pointing out one of many so called Democrats that need to and are going to become a dying breed within the Democratic party. The blue dogs, the DLC, the corporatists, basically, the wolves in sheep's clothing that have been undermining liberalism in America for 30 years now.

Obama represents the start of this shift in the Democratic party. He is not nearly as left as I'd like, but it's a start. He has mobilized a new generation of young liberal voters that will move America forward to an era of economic prosperity, peace, environmental leadership, and away from the uncivilized Cowboy politics of war and fend for yourself "small government". An America that is more in step with the rest of the civilized world, where health care is government funded and crime rates are low, where education is valued and corporations are regulated, where it's about "we" instead of "me".

I envision an America where this man


can be the president of the United States, where his ideas are not considered "extreme far left", but are mainstream and centrist. That's where things have to go and that's where things are heading.

[AspenRose]

1. *sigh*

Maybe it's time to take a break. :hug:

[dipsydoodle]

2. Hate

is wasted energy.

[Radio_Lady]

146. My co-worker used to say, "Regrets are the cancer of life."

I never forgot that phrase! That woman turned 78 on June 1st, the day after my 69th Birthday. She hasn't has an easy life, but she had made the very best of it.

I called her for her birthday out of the blue (haven't spoken to her in 17 years -- she now lives in the state of Maine, where she is retired with her younger husband.

Love you, Joan P., and thanks for being part of my life. Maybe we'll catch up with you one day at Cape Coral, Florida.

Peace, love and happiness,

Radio Lady in Oregon

[dipsydoodle]

148. Hi Radio_Lady

What your friend Joan said is similar in some respects to the old addage of not going far wrong if you always take the path of least regret. That way if it don't work out you won't grind yourself into the dust. There are many expressions my grandmother used too when I was a kid such as kindness being its own reward etc. Hopefully some of the old sayings will stick with youngsters to carry them forward.

I'll be 4 years younger than you in October.....lol. For me its forever August 1960 when I learned to dance to jazz - keeps me young. In the meanwhile Happy Birthday to you and many many happy returns of the day.:hi:

[Radio_Lady]

173. How gracious of you, EdwardLindy. Thank you for your good wishes!

August 1960 -- a difficult year for me, but won't bore you with the details. Of course, in November 1960 we had the Kennedy election. That was very upbeat for all of us, as I recall.

Have a pleasant weekend!

Thanks again,

Radio Lady Ellen Kimball in Oregon

:hug:

[WillyToad]

149. Hate is pathological and a result of a failure to think

My condolences on the OPs condition. Come June 11, the admins will take away his binky.

[Arugula Latte]

3. The Repukes, starting w/ Reagan, have done a good job of giving the impression that the U.S. is

far more to the right than it actually is.

We need to shift the perception of center far to the left, where it belongs. Most Americans are pro-choice, pro-environment, pro-eduation, pro-Social Security, etc. This myth that this is a rightwing country has to be killed.

[Tatiana]

5. This is what is going on in places like Montana. n/t

[wvbygod]

38. that would depend on how you define left

If it involves thinking 4.00 gas is still too low while riding the latte express as we
others need to drive somewhere and buy food etc then agreements about perceptions may be few.

[Arugula Latte]

49. "riding the latte express" -- Um, what are you talking about?

You might be on the wrong board.

[Jazzgirl]

95. I'll be blunt.

What the fuck are you talking about???

[wvbygod]

98. I'm saying don't go so far left that it drives away reasonable voters

People calling for gasoline to be much higher than it is now are going too far.

[EstimatedProphet]

137. Out of curiousity, who is doing that?

[wvbygod]

151. Here is one link to a DU call for higher gas prices

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3392304&mesg_id=3392386

[EstimatedProphet]

152. I agree with you, that's stupid

If the extra money went into development of alternate transportation/fuels/energy, I could live with it. But as it is now, it goes into the shareholders and the CEO of Exxon's pockets. They've lived at our expense long enough. However, the person who posted that dumb idea got pounded hard, and lost any credibility in that argument. Take heart.

[ExPatLeftist]

155. So one person posted that on an Internet message board...

...and somehow it is now a standard position of far-left "liberals"?

Give me a break - please try logic.

[me b zola]

183. WEST VIRGINIA, BY GOD!!!!

Reasonable voters, like these?...



Of course, those voters don't represent all West Virginia voters, by God! But neither is the example that you linked to down thread a bit representative the left.

[bluestateguy]

4. I'm just curiouis to know, has Kucinich endorsed Obama yet?

nt

[Catherina]

63. Kucinich was one of the first to help Obama, In Iowa he called Obama "Plan B"

I don't have news of an official endorsement but telling your supporters to back Obama is pretty clear

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004103369_campdig02.html

[leftofcool]

6. another wasted post

[hokies4ever]

87. another useless reply

[Cant trust em]

7. Let's just let what happened go and if she does something new, then comment on that.

But at this point I don't need to bring up what happened six weeks ago. I'll always have a tainted view, but I don't need to dwell on that anymore. If she's positive from here on out, then I'll be happy.

[ccharles000]

8. I still love her.

[papau]

21. As do I - and indeed I do not trust and dislike Obama - but "unity" is a one way street on DU

[iconicgnom]

135. "unity" is uniting behind the nominee, whoever that is, for Dems.

The primaries are over, the Dems have a nomineee, so we're dealing with new fact on the ground in this election season. The GE is on, the endgame is on, and there can only be one common cause for Dems, to focus on supporting the Dem nominee and on winning the GE.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hfojvt]

30. How do you define that term?

He has stated what he believes and why he believes it. Some of it seems wrong to me. For example, there will always be Hillary supporters just like there are always Kucinich supporters even if he is not the Presidential nominee. They wish he was and think the country would be a better place IF he was.

Still the OP does not seem particularly mean-spirited or to have some nefarious purpose.

[Auntie Bush]

52. Mean spirited? Read it again!

That OP is a professional Hillary hater. I've never seen a post from him that wasn't vehemently Anti Hillary.

[chimpymustgo]

65. That's when you start to see ISSUES. Nothing to do with politics. Try a 12 step program.

[hfojvt]

83. sure it is anti-Hillary

But it does not call her any names, or make any attacks on her supporters. It makes some analogies "dragon", "wolf in sheep's clothing" which are attached not just to Hillary, but to Harold Ford, Tom Vilsack, Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin, etc., etc. It is anti-DLC and anti-corporate. It's a call to push/pull the Democratic party to the left and expressing opposition to and hatred of the people/leaders who seem to be pulling in the other direction. That's kind of typical DU, the vast majority position here.

So are you saying that you are on the other side, or that Hillary is really on our side or that people who have strong feelings about defeating Hillary and politicians like Hillary (and Republicans too) are automatically a$$holes even if they do not do anything deliberately mean or dishonest?

It's not personal. We are emotionally invested in the activity. The OP looks like strong feelings to me, but not mean-spirited (except towards Hillary, who is very unlikely to ever see it).

[samdogmom]

11. Whew! You got this in before next week's deadline!

Thank you for expressing your deeply held feelings. They are valid! The "healing" is going to take some time for those of us who were OUTRAGED by her tactics. Me? I haven't gotten to "forgiveness" yet. I still change the channel when she comes on my TV--I do not want to hear anything she has to say! Over time...I'm sure these feelings will fade. But, right now they're very prevalent. She has a lot of fence-mending to do!

[Autumn]

12. I still think she is wonderful. n/t

[ronnykmarshall]

13. What a fucking shocker!

I can't wait 'till next week.

[terrya]

91. I'll alert the media.

I can't wait for next week, either. This crap is so pointless now.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Cheers

[PoliticalAmazon]

15. Here's a concept: Hillary needs to EARN forgiveness.....

She's not freaking ENTITLED to it, just like she wasn't ENTITLED to the presidency.

And at the rate she's going, the she's going to have to work very hard to earn forgiveness.

Even then, only a chump would ever trust her again.

I am hoping the good people of NY will find a way to remove her from office.

[ccharles000]

17. Not that I think she did anything that bad...

but I forgive her.

[PoliticalAmazon]

18. Bigot-pandering and assassintion as a campaign strategy are not "anything that bad"?....

If you're talking about Pol Pot, no, it's not that bad. If you're talking about a Democratic politcian in a primary, they are very bad, indeed.

Now we are having to deal yet again with Hillary's treason: the GOP has made an ad of her slamming Obama.

[bvar22]

37. Every time I see the Republican ads with Hillary endorsing McCain...

...my white hot anger will be rekindled.
It will be tough having that Hillary gaff rubbed in our faces until November.

[springhill]

88. You know what .....

I am getting sick and tired of this absolute outright lie about the assassination remark. If you can't take the time to really understand what she is said, just shut your damn mouth! And the bigot pandering, hey take a look at your own candidate, because he is the one who got that whole thing going. Please, don't ever let facts and common sense get in the way of your Hillary obsession.

[Auntie Bush]

100. Way to go! You tell em.

[laugle]

102. Hey AB....

why is it everytime I come here, I feel like voting for McCain......LOL............

[mrreowwr_kittty]

112. Then stop coming here.

My patience is wearing extremely thin with anyone who even hints at voting for McBush. :puke:

[laugle]

122. To bad, so sad,

it's called the nuclear option, get a clue...............

[mrreowwr_kittty]

125. It's called you are a whiny petulant little brat.

Go stamp your feet somewhere else.

[laugle]

126. Personal

attacks are not allowed, take your hate somewhere else.

IGNORE...........

[ExPatLeftist]

157. Please provide evidence

as to how Obama "got the whole thing going" with regard to racism.

[Lucky 13]

167. Don't you understand that sometimes it's not what you MEAN

but how other people perceive your message?

And that even if you didn't mean to, if you accidentally make someone think you are talking about the assassination of our first serious black presidential candidate, that you should clarify your words and APOLOGIZE?

Sheesh.

[Why Syzygy]

77. That's cool. Because she thinks you are a delusional air head. Not my opinion.

[samdogmom]

29. Thank you! n/t

[Raejeanowl]

107. You Mean, Like Teddy Kennedy? n/t

[StevieM]

116. She has done nothing which requires forgiveness. She will not work to earn it since she doesn't

require it.

There is no evidence that the voters of NY share your opinion.

She never felt she was entitled to the presidency, that was a hateful smear by hateful people.

This arrogance is astounding. I have never before heard of the candidate who didn't get the nomination needing to "redeem herself." And I've seen a lot more negative campaigns then this one.

Steve

[RaleighNCDUer]

175. I've seen more negative campaigns than this, also.

They've all been between 1 Democrat and 1 Republican.

Even the infamous 1980 primary, between Carter and Kennedy, had nothing on this.

This is unprecedented in my memory.

[Cha]

143. Precisely..I'm sick of all these posts

saying what good job hilary did. With what? Was the lying or the whining that was the best?

And, thanks, lynyrd_skynyrd, you're not alone. hilary got herself into this and if she doesn't like it then she needs to change.

[JVS]

147. Only through true repentance can she be forgiven.

Hillary Clinton, do you forsake Karl Rove and all his scheming lying ways?

Do you renounce your claims on the democratic nomination without condition?

Do you support the nominee and promise to work toward his election?

[ExPatLeftist]

156. Agreed there, She has done some really horrible things to our party

and, at least for me, she needs to either earn respect again (which will be very difficult) or just disappear. I hope she will not campaign for Obama except maybe meeting with Hillary supporters to urge them to vote for Obama. I do not see any good that she could do.

This is not blind hatred, rather anger that she earned. If anyone disagrees, then their threshold for repulsive political tactics is simply higher than mine. We can hopefully agree to disagree with those that would tell us how we "should" feel.

[EFerrari]

16. I hear you and I hope this will be over soon.

I'm not a big fan of giving a pass to horrible behavior, especially when it hurts so many people.

Soon, she'll have to deal with her consequences and we can deal with McWar.

[futureliveshere]

19. Hate plays havoc with your synapses and your cellular chemical receptors.

It can cause a physical degradation of your bodies immune system, and both physical and emotional well-being. Indifference is much much much better.

[JuniperLea]

25. It's addictive too...

Clearly some people here just can't stop.

Like a junkie who knows if he sticks that needle in his arm one more time, he loses everything... wife, kids, job, home... and he sticks it in anyway.


Hmmm... wish there was a way to make money on all the tombstones that will be needed soon!

[ExPatLeftist]

158. It's not hatred, it is justified anger at HER acts.

I am sure that we have a different view of what is acceptable and not in a campaign. That is fine. But Hillary Clinton, who I used to respect and admire, threw all of that away with her OWN actions, and has no one to blame but herself. If you disagree, that is fine - but do not tell me how I should feel (I do not tell you that you should be angry) and do not try to label this as "hatred" so that you can conveniently write this off.

I am angry and upset at many things that she has said and done, and I am not going to shut up about it because you want to patronize and try to label it something that it is not.

[beezlebum]

20. me too, everything you said

[eleny]

22. It's going to take so much out of you

I hope you can let go in the days ahead. :hug: At least you have this week to vent around here. We're going to have a lot to celebrate in the months ahead.

[MichiganVote]

23. Grow the hell up---the Primaries are over.

[mudesi]

24. Do you people even read the posts?

Or do you just read the subject?

[JuniperLea]

26. "us people" read every word...

That's why we are so disgusted.

[EFerrari]

33. Then maybe you should try reading twice for comprehension. n/t

[ampad]

41. GTFO

Read for comprehension, surely you jest! I agree, some people think they are doing this board favors by trying to stifle people's frustration but they are not. People are frustrated and have a right to vent within the rules. Those who don't like it can either hide thread or ignore, it's really not that hard. It seems some folks on this board are going crazy because they cannot control how others feel about Hillary. You can tell people to stop posting crap all day long but it's not gonna change how people feel about her. I personally agree with the OP and nothing is going to change that except for maybe Hillary but I doubt it.

[EFerrari]

71. Time can change it. Talking to friends can change it.

Being bullied doesn't seem to help in any way. :)

We'll be okay and sooner if we listen, right?

But, this does seem to be Imperious Thursday.

[ExPatLeftist]

159. Great post! Sums it up for me as well. n/t

[MichiganVote]

34. Lol Oh you want people to read your posts!! With a lead in like "I still hate her"

Like I said, grow the hell up. Its over and its going to stay over whether you hate the person or not. As to the rest...if credibility is what you want, try posting like an adult.

[ampad]

27. Here, here

Take out the hate part and I'm there with you. :applause: I'm not wasting my time and energy hating her. I do hope she loses her Senate seat and leave politics forever.

[beezlebum]

39. it doesn't seem to drain me of any energy or to be a waste of time

for me, "hate" is only what her loyalists or rushbots call expressing my concern over her unapologetic warmongering, that she is evoking terrifying events as "possibilities" (bordering on suggesting as probabilities) to justify her remaining in this ever-so crucial race and to justify obliteration, expressing my frustration with republicanesque, or more accurately, dare i say rovian triangulation and obfuscation, and if that's "hatred," okay, call it what they wish.

for me, just as it's no waste of time/energy despising bushco and working in opposition to everything it stands for, it's not wasting time/energy sending the message that i have had enough of the clintons, of the DLC, or corporatists, etc etc etc. yes, with that "hatred" my concerns and criticism are equated to.

if anyone is "wasting" anything, she wastes the seat she was elected to, our seat, our democratic seat on enabling *.

edit to add: despite my reluctance to actually "hate," anyone who votes to go to war, and then apologizes w/o apoliogizing, as seems to be a habit, anyone who votes for something that will lead to the deaths of innocent people, of thousands of our troops, that leads to post traumatic stress disorder, and then goes on to promise an expansion of that war a la obliteration is deserving of hatred.

[ampad]

43. I get your point (nt)

[Stephanie]

28. Anyone who doesn't understand what he's talking about, please read this:

Patterns of Bigotry
http://www.counterpunch.org/sharon06052008.html

[Raine]

31. Word nt

[BootinUp]

32. and if this "shift" you speak of turns out to be a dud

like I know it will, and Obama cozies up to the middle, like I know he will and actually has already in his books, will you then pretend that his actions are different than Hillary's still? He is just another politician only without much of a record. Skillfully hiding his true intentions from the believers for now.

[mudesi]

36. If he doesn't deliver, I WILL criticize him

Just like I do with all the DINOs.

But to compare any actions of his with Hillary's? I don't know if he will say he's going to "obliterate" Iran, or if he will blast the liberal base, or if he will invoke assassination, or if he will pander to racists.

If he does, then I'll concede his actions are no different than hers.

[Stephanie]

42. As the nominee of ONE DAY, he has retained Dean and banned lobbyist money from the DNC

I already like where this is headed.

[BootinUp]

45. Obama and his campaign engaged

in all the race card baiting politics of personal destruction lying and political wind blowing directional guidance bullshit to match anyone. Wake up already.

[beezlebum]

51. when?

links and examples plz.

and just fyi, in case ya didn't know, just a helpful hint, not saying anything, just sayin, race card is a paranoid racist meme.

[Raineyb]

86. You won't get any

He's talking out of his ass.

Again.

Besides, "the race card" is a stupid phrase used when someone doesn't want to be called out on their racist bullshit so you know how seriously one can take that assertion.

I'll be looking out for those links and examples too though.

I'm just not holding my breath about seeing it.

Regards

[mudesi]

53. The primary is over

So I won't ask for examples.

But if you decide to voluntarily provide them, it would make your opinion much more credible.

[laugle]

103. Though I don't like

to dwell on the past, I have to agree with you.........the expectations are so high, the disappointment's will be enormous...............

[ExPatLeftist]

160. Evidence or STFU. Thanks. n/t

[lastliberalintexas]

61. He was essentially ready to start a war with Pakistan

Short memories around here...

[Auntie Bush]

99. Hi Jim! Good to see ya.

It's been awhile or maybe I wasn't paying attention. Took some time out! Lowered my Blood pressure. Feeling better! :hi:

[BootinUp]

174. Glad to hear that Auntie.

:hi:

[wvbygod]

35. Comparing Clinton to a mugger is a whine away from reality

Some of the crap used to justify Obama's failures are pretty creative.

[Binka]

48. Obama's "Failures" ( as you call them) Just Won This Contest Sport!

LOL. Jesus can next week please get here? PLEASE?

[laugle]

106. Correction:

He was "selected" not "elected!" but now he has to win all the dems, not just half of them!

[Binka]

108. Oh Dear Me We Just Had A Primary Selection?

In my 30 years of voting I have never heard of anything more ridiculous. Unless you factor in all the 100s of other bullshit memes Hillary and her cohorts have tried to manufacture. Nice try sunshine but F. Oh and BTW I said he won this contest. Try reading comprehension next time sport. Shouldn't you be out washing the Bullshit Express for McSame?

[laugle]

121. Hey you got me there, I'm

just a bit tired, but the post is accurate..............

BTW, I have got you beat, voting for 35 years....LOL

Be nice.....we're both from CA!

[Binka]

131. But My Ex Is From Pacifica.....I Still Love THAT Town

Hello from Santa Rosa!

[laugle]

176. Hello to you too!

Yeah it's a great town, except for the current city council that keeps gouging us property owners with new parcel taxes. But it seems to be happening everywhere because of the 17 billion we are in debt in CA.

Santa Rosa is a beautiful town too, don't drink too much wine...........best to you..........

[Barack_America]

40. Then don't "forgive" her. FORGET her...

...and focus on what you can do to get Barack elected.

[Doityourself]

44. Find a peaceful place and bury your hate! Seriously.

[beezlebum]

56. while i'm reluctant to truly *hate*

anyone who votes to go to war,

who votes for something that will lead to the deaths of innocent people,

including children who if they survive bear witness to absolute atrocities upon their families, who see and endure trauma no adult should see,

who votes for the deaths of thousands of our troops,
for something that leads to post traumatic stress disorder
to permanent and life altering injuries,
to the suffering of families all over this country as they watch their brothers and sisters and sons and daughters suffer, or who never see them again,

anyone who enables such an action that causes such incredibly negative force to be delivered upon millions of people around the world,

and then proceeds to promise an expansion of that war a la obliteration

is deserving of hatred.

[Carolina]

46. I understand your feelings

and will not be one of the ones to dump on you. We have yet to see what HRC will do on Friday or Saturday or whenever.

While I am momentarily suspending judgment, I, too, have not forgiven her IWR vote and behavior during this campaign. And I will certainly never forget it, especially the attempt to steal Obama's historic thunder on Tuesday evening.

But time does heal wounds, so let's see what happens this weekend. :hug: :hi:

[Norrin Radd]

47. kr

[Left coast liberal]

50. That's not helpful. NT

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

54. You're Obsessed. It's Unhealthy. You Should Probably Take A Break.

Seriously. Your OP is irrational and it seems like you're having a hard time letting go of your melodramatic, unproductive and highly unwarranted hatred. You should probably take a break and try and regain some sense of rationality.

[McCamy Taylor]

55. Hillary Loves You. So do I.

:loveya:

[Skip Intro]

57. It being over doesn't change the way I feel either

[OzarkDem]

58. I'm sure Dennis disagrees with you

[lastliberalintexas]

59. Then how the fuck can you support Obama?

Are you one of those supporters who actually thinks he's a liberal? If not and you admit that his voting record is ALMOST IDENTICAL to hers, then how the hell do you support him? The same man who voted for the Bush/Cheney Energy plan, the same man who still refuses to scrap NCLB, the same man who has a fucking Chicago School professor as his economics advisor, the same man who continues to vote to fund the wars, the same man who injects religion into the poublic sphere every chance he gets?

How do you see Obama as a step in the correct direction when he has already started drifting rightward? How about when he disappoints the young supposedly liberal voters he's energized, and they turn their backs in disillusionment? After all, there isn't any real indication that Obama will govern much differently than Bill Clinton, though perhaps a little more progressive.

God bless it this gets old. Obama is a decent man and a good candidate, but he's a CENTRIST, much like Clinton. He'd be a freaking right winger in Europe for goodness sakes. We have to keep his administration in perspective, not get lulled into any false sense of security or higher than justified expectations so that we continue to work after he is elected.


You may hate her for your own personal reasons, but it isn't all policy based. Are you one of the "former republicans" we have on this board, who absorbed the vitriol of the 90s and formed your opinion of the Clintons then? Because your hatred of her isn't just that she's a centrist, or else you'd also post diatribes against Bayh, Reid, Lampson, Daschle, and *gasp* even Obama.

[mudesi]

62. I wonder if you paid attention to her campaign

Their policy positions are almost identical.

Their campaigns were not.

And he didn't support the war, while she did and refused to apologize or even acknowledge it as a mistake. That, like it or not, is a major, major difference. A little over 4000 dead American soldiers of difference.

[lastliberalintexas]

66. If this was your first primary, then perhaps you thought it nasty

Trust me, 2004 was much worse, and don't even get me started on the 1984 or 1988 primaries. Obama and Clinton stayed mostly above the fray, unlike many of their supporters or even surrogates. There have been some bad acts on both sides, but I'm not going into that now because it isn't that relevant to my post. DU and other liberal blogs notwithstanding, of course, since things were much worse here this year than in 04- ironic, given the candidates acted better this year.


Your post wasn't about that, though, regardless of how badly you think Clinton acted in her campaign. No, your OP was about how this is indicative of a shift to the left, a show of support for liberals and a denouncing of the DLC, Blue Dogs and conservative Dems. You framed the OP that way, not me. You painted the picture of Obama ushering in this new Socialist Utopia, not that he had run a positive campaign while someone else ran a negative one. You can't try to change the subject or frame by now arguing "But she was a bad, bad lady during the primary."

Obama won, yet I've never seen a group of ungracious winners like this year. And I say that as someone who has done political work for over a quarter of a century. NEWSFLASH- Your guy WON! Be happy!

[QC]

60. Someday your neighbors are going to be on the news, saying you always kept to yourself but

seemed nice enough. Seriously. There is something very unhealthy about this kind of rage directed at someone you don't know and lasting for months. I am afraid for you. There is something terribly wrong here.

[beezlebum]

64. do you think there is anything unhealthy with

sending more than 4000 people you don't know off to their deaths?
with ratifying the deaths of more than one million people you don't know?
is it psychotic/sociopathic/murderous if it's state sponsored?

this is one thing i will never forgive hillary for. i might have could have possibly maybe found it in my heart to forgive it had she not gone on to promise more.

[lastliberalintexas]

67. Who also continues to vote to fund the wars?

Who was also basically ready to go to war with Pakistan when Bhutto was murdered?

The IWR and Kyl-Lieberman turned me against Clinton, but Obama isn't *that* much better. Throw in his DLC style economics, and you can guess why this Socialist is none too pleased.

I just don't get the vitriol from the left against Clinton. It isn't as though our candidates are 180 degrees away from each other- if we were running Clinton against Kucinich or Sanders, I might could understand the passion a little more. But the vitriol over 2 moderate to centrist politicians? Alrighty...

[QC]

69. Shhhhhh! You're not supposed to mention that! n/t

[PeaceNikki]

70. Right there with you.

I will support Obama and I would have supported Clinton. I have not been excited about either. They are so very close on paper that it's a wash in my book. I am very excited that our options were a woman or a non-white male. But I just don't get the absolute hate of either. It's odd.

I've found myself defending both to such vile and reactionary vitrol.

[QC]

72. Do you ever find yourself thinking

that we ended up having to choose between the two most conservative of the candidates we started with?

That's why I am so gobsmacked by the common sentiment, expressed ably by our sunny, vivacious OP, that Obama is Mother Jones, Eugene Debs, and Joe Hill all rolled into one. Where do they get this? It's so far from reality that I don't even know where to begin....

[PeaceNikki]

73. Yup

My guy chose not to run and I am kinda glad. I think his time WILL come, but this next administration is starting with one foot in the grave. I hope like hell they can do some good, but I fear the worst.

Feingold is my perfect match in a politician. Always. I believe he'll run someday. When he was 7 he declared that he'd be the 1st Jewish president. And I think he still knows he will. 2008 was not the time and he made a wise decision. There's a LOT of shit to clean up from the last 8 years and my MAJOR fear is that whoever is handed the pile of shit will in no way be able to clean it up in any amount of time. I also think that the economy and a lot of other things are going to hell in a handbasket. It's picking up speed and will be in full swing in about a year. Just in time to make whoever holds the office look like a complete fuck up. And there will be NO way it'll be able to be cleaned up. I fear the current administration set the next one up for failure.

Holding out for Russ...

[seaglass]

78. I'm a MAJOR Russ fan and could have actually been excited

about this primary if he ran. Agree with you that the next 4 years will not be easy and as another poster said - we will not be getting out of Iraq very quickly - a lot of hearts are going to be broken.

[lastliberalintexas]

110. Gore/Feingold would have been a dream

Though I would have been happy with Gore/Kucinich, Dean/Feingold, Feingold/Edwards (yeah, I know!) or any other combination thereof.

I love that picture. :)

[beezlebum]

76. obama doesn't make me feel 100% secure,

i would much prefer far more liberal policies, but he damned sure doesn't assure me there WILL BE MORE WAR.

i chose obama because he ran a better campaign, because i felt that he could beat mccain, because he is, whetehr you believe it or not, a grassroots candidate, as opposed to the far more corporate/DLC (which obama is NOT) candidate, hillary. and despite what you say, he has been opposed to the war from the beginning, and while he could have been more aggressive as kucinich et al, he beats the alternative with little effort.

why the vitriol for clinton whose policies are supposedly so similar??

hillary clinton UNAPOLOGETICALLY voted for this war, and then threatened to expand the conflict. she decried diplomacy and continues to do so while employing neoconian tactics and finger-tappingly anticipates assassination of he who is in her way.

i was originally behind kucinich, and am more socialist than yo mama, but that doesn't mean i am not willing to accept an incremental "change," starting with obama, who, once again, is not a clinton, and is not DLC, and has already put his foot down RE lobbyists.

[Poll_Blind]

82. Funny, isn't it, that Clinton was the one who needed the intervention, though?

PB

[laugle]

114. Some people like

misery........hate=misery.........and it's really bad for your health!

[Phillycat]

172. NO SHIT.

Amen!

[Why Syzygy]

68. Very nice post. Thanks.

I can't get over how these people want us to just love her! She has mocked us, called us delusional, endorsed our opponent but not our leader, and incited racist bullies to defend her!

Just AS SOON AS she does something reasonable, I will stop hating the shit she does.

[BellaLuna]

74. Bummer for you.. you're going to have to find another target of your drama

:eyes:

[mudesi]

75. Is John McCain OK? (nm)

[Skittles]

79. AW, BIG SURPRISE

who the FUCK will you kick around now????? OH WAIT!! I CAN STILL KICK THE EVIL WITCH HILLARY!!!! :puke:

[smiley_glad_hands]

80. I never hated her, just her tactics. She took a gamble on using rovian tactics.

She lost.

Lets move on.

[RBInMaine]

81. STOP IT NOW !! IT'S OVER. BE BIGGER THAN THAT !

[Poll_Blind]

84. Yep. BTW, I loved the poster who insinuated you might kill or hurt someone.

  I mean, if someone's going to disagree with you but the best antithetical argument they can come up starts with "Someday your neighbors are going to be on the news...", do they have any legs to stand on at all?

:thumbsup:

PB

[knixphan]

85. DENNIS!

That's the America I want!

[gulfcoastliberal]

89. I feel you, bro. She is one nasty, vile, shabby, & evil SOB.

Leona Helmsley had nuthin on this Queen of Mean. So fucking vile. Maybe she'll outsource her senate seat to India - do us all a big favor.

[Teaser]

90. I can feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate.

.

[MethuenProgressive]

92. You read too much DU.

Let it go.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

93. LS - There are some (very few IMHO) here who rise about the

mediocrity - who speak out on what is true - without regard for the politically correct lemming attack.

You are the best !

[CesarAugustus2]

94. Dennis Kucinich

How did THAT turn out?

[AZBlue]

96. I haven't forgotten nor do I like her. But I am moving on and looking toward the future.

And here it is:

[Robeson]

97. I'm appealing to your better self. Please drop the hate.

[texastoast]

101. Oh, go work to get the Senate secured and give it up

There are so many outlets for disappointment. Hatred will give you ulcers.

[Kixel]

104. Hate is a Republican value

We don't need it infusing us.

I will never support a Clinton campaign in the future unless there is no other Democratic option, but hating her is a waste of our energy. Hating her supporters does no good, either.

[Catherine Vincent]

105. Of course you do.

Don't let the hate eat at you.

[The Night Owl]

109. Do you ever get tired of repeating yourself?

I know I get tired of you repeating yourself.

[mudesi]

117. lol

Good one.

And to those focusing on "hate", no it's not eating me up and no my energy is not wasted and no I'm not some psychopath.

Since this ended, in fact, I'm feeling quite fine. Back to my old self. It got emotional on more than one occasion and suffice to say I'm thankful for the three thread limit.


As I posted in a reply that was in one of the deleted sub threads above, there are different types of hate.

There is Hitler hated the Jews type hate.

There is my ex-girlfriend cheated on me type hate.

There is this TV show is stupid why do people watch it type hate.

There is my three year old cousin hates to eat his broccoli type hate.


My hate of Hillary is above the fourth type and below the third type. Stop taking things so seriously.

[The Night Owl]

120. I don't think you're hateful.

I just don't think you're very bright.

[JI7]

111. Didn't Kucnich vote against abortion rights at times ?

should women still hate him for it ?

[bullwinkle428]

113. Dude, I honestly can't say that I even hate BUSH!! His policies,

sure, I despise without question...but hate is such an incredibly harsh emotion. I only save that for those that truly deserve it.

[tyedyeto]

115. At this point, we don't have to like Hillary..........

but we have to gather round Obama for PRESIDENT !!!

I voted for neither during my AZ primary (voted for one who had actually conceded, unlike Hillary, but was still on the ballot).

Since then, I, as a white 50ish feminist, have never looked to Hillary as any sort of 'savior' for our party. All I've seen is that she is the divider. As a Democrat/Feminist, I have not been impressed with her voting record when it comes down to womens and family issues. She votes the corporate line more often than not.

I stayed out of the fray for a long time, but now, I am proud to say "This white 50's female/feminist will support Obama until the General Election in November."

[StevieM]

118. It doesn't matter what you think, he already has your vote. Obama is totally dependent on her

to win the election. Hating that fact doesn't make it stop being true.

Steve

[tyedyeto]

124. So tell me, why is he dependent upon her?

Because she gathered many voters during this primary process? It was a primary and she LOST. Losing means you graciously concede and endorse the winner within your political party. She's had 2 days to do that and now says she will make some sort of statement on Saturday. Give it a rest....she LOST.

Those who are now saying they will not vote for the Democratic nominee if it isn't Hillary are NOT Democrats. I gather you are one of those idiots.

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtomicKitten]

128. Well, you better start working on the spin when he wins BIG with

Webb or Sebelius or Clark or Biden or Richardson or Edwards or any of the other fine Democrats to choose from and will pick ... that kind of spin will take time to manufacture and fine-tune.

You're welcome for the head start.

:hi:

[StevieM]

129. I would love it if he picked Clark. I'm not saying that he needs her on the ticket.

I am saying that he needs her to campaign for him. Not liking that fact doesn't make it stop being true.

Steve

[AtomicKitten]

130. He doesn't need her, in fact, her lukewarm support for Kerry in 2004 wasn't worth the effort.

Your inflated view of her worth is I suppose to be expected but he just defeated the Clinton Machine without breaking a sweat, and he did it fair and square. He ran a brilliant campaign and is taking on the GE like gangbusters.

In case you haven't noticed, Barack is bringing into the limelight NEW Democrats in Congress. Old School deserves what she asked for, to finish the race. Done. Now it's time for her to kiss his ring as the new leader of the Democratic Party.

If that factoid makes you uncomfortable, be advised that a political realignment is occurring and I'm sure your particular brand of surliness would be welcome elsewhere. Appalachian Democrats are an anomaly in the party and will not be missed if they choose to go to the dark side. Barack has brought in plenty of new voters to replace them and then some.

So, be there or be square. But quit dissing the presumptive nominee or you'll be getting a pizza delivery.

[StevieM]

134. I have until Wednesday. In the meantime, you're lying about Kerry and Obama does need her.

All this talk about a new coalition is nonsense. It will probably lead to his defeat.

Obama is the nominee because he sold a narrative about the so-called PDs being what should decide the nomination. So the SDs caved. The media ignored the fact that the PDs are awarded in a certain way BECAUSE we have SDs. If we didn't have them then there would be totally different rules for awarding PDs.

Under a more fair rules system we would have winner take all by state, or at least congressional district. Under those rules Hillary would have killed Barack. All he did was dominate caucuses. The voters in Massachussetts and California voted for old school.

Steve

[AtomicKitten]

136. In fact, she stabbed Kerry in the back in 2004 when she jumped on a gaffe he made.

Obama won fair and square and has moved a nation. Your bitterness merely punctuates that as being true. You have no viable excuse for her loss other than she ran a shitty campaign. Period.

And allow this Californian to advise you that California is Obama Country now. Polls show he would kick the ever lovin' shit out of Hillary now and will McCain in November.

Democrats are by and large ecstatic that Barack Obama is the nominee. And your bitterness doesn't alter that in the least.

:patriot:
:party:

[StevieM]

138. He won by spreading hatred and lies. And Hillary's campaign was fine, there is no shame in getting

James Lee Witted. Obama ran a Bush vs. Gore race against her and the media--like in 2000--helped spread the false narrative.

In 2007 Hillary was expected to crash and burn. Instead, as the year progressed she pulled away from him and Edwards in the polls. That is when he began his campaign of personal destruction.

Obama didn't win because he is the better public servant, or even the better candidate. He won because he is a terrible human being who was willing to do anything to win.

Steve

[AtomicKitten]

139. she race-baited and ran like a Republican (Rove style) against him

And if truth be told, she isn't fit to kiss his ring but kiss his ring she must or she will be swept into the dustbin of history.

[StevieM]

142. You're lying about the race-baiting (as was Obama), the Rove analogy is silly and

Hillary will not be kissing Obama's ring. Whether you like it or not, he needs her and she doesn't need him. Her standing in NY is just fine.

Steve

[AtomicKitten]

145. "I'm crushing your head."

[ExPatLeftist]

165. Evidence that Obama "spread hatred and lies". We're waiting. n/t

[ExPatLeftist]

163. So basically, "If the rules to the game were different, we would have won!!!"

That is just plain ridiculous in ANY contest.

[Darth_Kitten]

150. Please focus a bit. In hindsight, getting so NOT worked up about Kerry was a blessing.

Also, kiss his ring? Obama has been elected Pope? :sarcasm:

It's childish to state this person may be getting a pizza delivery. Get over yourself.

[AtomicKitten]

168. Be sure to remind Kerry that Clinton stabbing him in the back was a blessing.

And it sure as hell wasn't a blessing to America.

It appears you need to clean your rear-view mirror.

[ExPatLeftist]

162. I think he is better off if she disappears rather than campaigning for him.

Her negatives are huge. She should go on vacation and come back in mid November.

[ExPatLeftist]

161. Way to keep the veiled threats and blackmail going.

"Be nice to me or I'll vote for McCain!"

Grow up.

[StevieM]

119. I look forward to the unhappiness you will feel when she is re-elected in a landslide (eom)

[Dr Fate]

179. Bank on it. She will be in the senate for as long as she wants. n/t

n/t

[Rwalsh]

123. I don't hate her.

I hate what she's done. A difference my parents taught me.

[StevieM]

144. She has done nothing wrong. Your arrogance is astounding and will sink Obama in November.

But don't worry....you'll just turn around and blame Hillary.

Steve

[ExPatLeftist]

166. "She has done nothing wrong"

Hmmm... That sounds like a matter of opinion to me. In the views of MILLIONS of people she HAS done something wrong. Just because you say, "nuh-UH" does not make that fact any less real.

Keep in mind that your opinions are just that and nothing more. And opinions are like assholes - everybody has one.

[WillyToad]

132. Some people are too weak to let go...

The GOP is full of them. Anger is a crutch for the weak minded.

[bridgit]

133. It's a damn good thing "hate" doesn't raise all boats in the harbor

[dailykoff]

140. She's going to keep yanking our chains as long as the cameras are rolling.

In fact longer. The "let's come together" scam is for suckers.

[Beacool]

141. Well, ditto for Obama.

Do you feel better now?

Damn kids.......

[Starbucks Anarchist]

153. Let it go.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

154. Then you are a bitter, pathetic, insignificant little person.

Especially considering your discretion as to whom you decide to "hate."

[11 Bravo]

164. And she still thinks that you're a flaming sack of smegma, but ...

since she doesn't matter anymore and you never did, why the waste of bandwidth?

[Vicky Polonia]

169. I dislike her

But don't hate her. I hate Bush.

[grantcart]

170. This isn't therapy this is political war

It is about one side wresting power from the other. Personal feelings are to be set aside.

I want to live in a country where even the police don't have guns. I have lived in such countries.

America is not that place. There is no point talking about it because you have to put feelings aside and look at larger issues.

As someone who shares your feelings in some respects, to dwell on that is in fact narcissistic.

While I don't think it will happen even if he decides to have her on the ticket I would embrass it.

This isn't sport it is fucking political war.

To prevent real war.

We have to play by 'Russian' rules in an ethical way.

[MethuenProgressive]

171. It is disconcerting that this kind of Hate is being endorsed and defended on DU.

Shame.

[Mezzo]

177. maybe you're forgetting that Obama IS the dlc candidate.

[Dr Fate]

178. inapproprate, irrelevant. n/t

n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

180. No, really.

It doesn't show.

[lumberjack_jeff]

181. There's no such thing as a Hillary supporter, yet you sport a Kucinich pic.

By your rules, that's not allowable, you know.

[qwlauren35]

182. Your emotions are overcoming reason.

Yes, she still has supporters. Heck! Huckabee and Romney still have supporters. EDWARDS still has supporters.

Like it or not, she's got a "constituency". In every other convention, one's constituency was a bargaining chip for the framing of the party platform. This election isn't any different.

She DOES have supporters. Ten years from now, she'll have supporters. For the rest of her life, she'll have supporters.

The people who campaigned for her in the last 3 months are SUPPORTERS. They will give her the place in history that she is entitled to, they will hold onto their HRC '08 buttons and make them collector's items. They will tell their grandchildren that they campaigned for her.

Get a CLUE!

[ramapo]

184. LET IT GO!

I wasn't real happy with Hillary these past few months...right up until Wednesday night. But it is over. If she had won, I'd be on board the Hillary Express. She played politics and did a damn good job. Obama bested her...and now we all move on to defeat the true evil doers.

[mokawanis]

185. Forget anger and forget forgiving

Now is the time, right fucking now, to drop all grievances and kick Republican ass. You're a Dem, I'm a Dem, Hillary's a Dem, Barack's a Dem. Let's unite and give the true enemy an ass kicking.