Hillary said she could lead from Day One. yet she has no effect over her own Supporters?

[FrenchieCat]

Does the fact that sooo many of her supporters will vote McCain or not vote at all mean that she wouldn't have been able to lead this country out of a paper bag? Cause that's what it means to me.

So why can't Hillary Clinton lead her supporters to Obama? Cause thus far, she doesn't seem to be doing so well in that arena, cause where she's leading many aren't following their dear beloved leader.

Shouldn't she have more sway? :wtf:

When Obama asked his supporters to behave and not to protest in DC at the Committee Rules meeting, they did just as he asked....if they had, he would have looked weak and I would not have been impressed.

Hillary is starting to look weak.


Despite Hillary's speech, the divisive message from Hillary surrogates continues
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6323488&mesg_id=6323488

Regarding Hillaryis44 and other party dividing website.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6334383

Grumbling Clinton supporters make Democrats nervous
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6334290


PUMA: Party Unity My Ass. A new coalition formed to say no deal to voting for Obama.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6333875&mesg_id=6333875

[anonymous171]

1. Look, she's spent the last few months telling her supporters how awful Obama was.

And they swallowed it whole. It's going to take a while for them to get that out of their system and come around to the democratic side.

[FrenchieCat]

4. Well, this is reflecting on her.......

and that is what my letters that I send everywhere as LTTE are going to be about.

Since that's the only conclusion that I can come to; she's weak when it comes to providing leadership. :shrug:

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darth_Kitten]

44. Actually, his supporters, good or bad, believed what they wanted to believe.

n/t

[Cha]

104. I had one the other day

tell me how "evil" Obama is. I was shocked! I said "evil!?" "Have you read his anti-war speech that he wrote and gave at an anti-war rally, in Oct 20002, when he was prescient about all the things that did happen?" "How evil is that?"

She got a little discombombulated and came up to me later and said, "maybe I misspoke." I told her that she could see when he gets to be president that he's not evil and has only the best in mind for our country.

[roguevalley]

127. its her responsibility to undo that, as it would be his if this were turned

around. she owns it, she fixes it or the op is right.

[2rth2pwr]

2. Obama also told his supporters to be nice to Hillarys supporters.

Whaddup with that?

[FrenchieCat]

7. I'm only nice to the ones that aren't still dissing Obama.......

I think it was supposed to be a two way street....not Obama supporters kissing ass only.

Hillary's weak. Can't even get them onboard. That is not what a leader looks like.

[Evergreen Emerald]

50. This thread, is not being "nice" to anyone.

It is attempting to put down Clinton supporters and Clinton.

[bvar22]

113. There are no more "Clinton supporters".

There are only:

1)Obama supporters

2)McCain supporters

[ogradda]

122. hear hear n/t

[Mudoria]

135. Exactly

[mcctatas]

8. Are you seriously equating snarky blow-hards like myself being

occasionally dickish to the hillary folks is the same as actively seeking to undermine the democratic nominee and/or vote for a neo-con war monger? Seriously??? :wtf:

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mcctatas]

18. There was a clause in his request that only went out to his donor

list (clause 13-a-1), "All requests for ceasing dickish behavior are contingent upon the individual donor's personal threshold for Obama bashing bullshit" :shrug:

[JVS]

55. Thank god for that loophole!

[SwampG8r]

56. that what mine says too

[onetwo]

9. On the internet, you don't know how big the room is. The vocal minority sounds and acts like...

...the majority. Don't worry about it (yet).

[jgraz]

3. Her job now is to deliver those votes.

Every one of those voters who sits out or votes McCain is a failure on her part.

[FrenchieCat]

11. Yep.....

Kind of like the health care she was going to deliver. She was real determined, but got nada for her efforts.

She's pretty weak. I have yet to see her actually lead anything. Instead, folks that admire her appear not to give a shit as to what she really has asked them to do.

Sad that one would bother to give a big giant speech in front of all of those cameras, and your supporters in essence give you the finger. Cause that's all this is.

[emilyg]

13. It's his job.

[jgraz]

14. Well, it probably will end up as his job. I doubt Hillary will work that hard to change minds.

[Major Hogwash]

20. She won't lift a finger. It'll be 2004 all over again and you won't hear from Bubba again either.

You know when he said he "supported" Kerry in 2004.
It has been well documented that he had "other priorities", like selling his book.

[cboy4]

22. She already did Obama a huge favor by blowing his

qualifications out of proportion during her concession speech.

Nothing satisfies some of you.

[jgraz]

24. Look at how Howard Dean worked for Kerry's election in 2004

That would satisfy me.

[democrattotheend]

102. Agreed

Dean put aside his anger and worked hard for Kerry. I hope Clinton will do the same. I am encouraged by her decision to release her delegates...it's a good first step.

[Cha]

106. When did she release her delegates?

I haven't heard that?

[democrattotheend]

109. Late last night

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6335148&mesg_id=6335148

[Cha]

111. Oh shoots..I'm

ignoring that poster. I'm waiting until to tomorrow to take the ignores off. And google doesn't have it except that poster's..weird.

[Darth_Kitten]

43. Well, he WAS a two term President, he could do any damn thing he wanted to after that.

:eyes:

Were you awake in the 90's?

[Major Hogwash]

47. That's not what I meant.

Bubba is a racist and he won't be asked to speak on Obama's behalf this year.
He blew any chance he ever had of saving face in order to do it after Ohio.

[Beacool]

76. Bill is a racist???????

Oh, that's too precious!!!

:rofl:

[Arkansas Granny]

48. I believe this event happened in 2004 while Bill was recovering from surgery:

"If this isn't good for my heart I don't know what is," Bill Clinton told a crowd of more than 50,000 cheering supporters as he joined John Kerry on the hustings for the first time since his bypass surgery seven weeks ago.

The enormous rally spilled out of Love Park in downtown Philadelphia over several huge city blocks and stretched back to city hall as union workers, black women, lawyers in suits, mothers with children and seniors in wheelchairs flocked to see the return of the former Democratic president to the campaign trail.

Looking pale and drawn, but buoyed by the enthusiasm of the crowd, who repeatedly called out "We love you, Bill", Mr Clinton said modestly he hoped his words during the last week of the election campaign could "affect a few votes".

Mr Clinton left his convalescent couch on Monday to fulfil a promise to Senator Kerry to join the campaign at this critical stage, hoping he can return any wavering Democratic Party supporters to the fold in battleground states such as Pennsylvania that will determine the outcome of the election on November 2. A big turnout in Philadelphia could win the state for Senator Kerry.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/26/1098667767372.html?from=storylhs

He also campaigned in New Mexico in late October with Teresa Heinz-Kerry. I would say that this was quite a determined effort for a man recovering from bypass surgery.

[karynnj]

119. Clinton hurt Kerry more than helped - but in hard to see passive aggressive ways

On the surface, Clinton campaigned - though he often spoke more of, well Bill Clinton than Kerry. This is why he was there:

"looking pale and drawn, but buoyed by the enthusiasm of the crowd, who repeatedly called out "We love you, Bill"," He was not much better when it was his own wife - but Kerry had never been a Clinton favorite. Now, it's easy to find Bill campaigning for Kerry - and much harder to list things done that hurt - and even then to convince anyone, even yourself, that you know he did this on purpose.

You make the issue campaigning in fall 2004. The lack of support that I and many others have spoken of - with no Kerry quotes to back us up - are based on our observations of negative things he and his allied did - not anything not done. Some are:

1) Releasing his autobiography in July 2004. Bill Clinton is reputed to be the sharpest politician of our generation - any high school kid could see why this is a bad idea in the run up to the election. As it was, June was a month when Kerry could get little coverage - as it was solid Reagan coverage for at least 3 weeks. Then Bill Clinton took a fair part of July - and all of us were treated to learning that the reason for Monica was "because I could". Now, frankly I could have happily lived my whole life not knowing that. This was a repeat of Bill Clinton having a confessional interview about getting his family back after Monica in the week before Gore's convention. You need to either challenge his political acumen or accept in both cases he had some need to fight off Gore or Kerry becoming the head of the party and President.

2) In the book, he has 2 strange pages where he writes of the 1996 MA Senate race. Kerry was the nominee almost 2 months before he finished editing his book - so you know that he reviewed this knowing Kerry was our candidate. The overall impression was that he liked Kerry's competitor more but wanted Kerry to win because of his knowledge on the environment and technology. He also mentioned Kerry's long term work with disadvantaged youth, noting there were no votes in it. Now, none of these 3 were big 2004 issues. Not mentioned were most of Kerry's strongest issues - foreign policy, terrorism (BCCI was already shut down), and healthcare, where Kerry had just written,with Kennedy, the precursor bill to S-CHIP based on the plan that had just passed in MA over Weld's veto! In the sections on Vietnam reconciliation, Clinton extends a huge amount of praise to McCain, nearly ignoring that our nominee was the chair of the committee and, per all accounts of those on the committee, did an incredible job and was the one person most responsible for its success. Now, I think most people, unlike me, looked up "Lewinsky" not "Kerry" in the index - but for people who read that nearly 1,000 page book those pages played into the Republican theme that he didn't accomplish much in the Senate.

3) There were Clinton and Clinton ally generated stories all through the period he was convalescing that Kerry's campaign was poorly run and that he was not listening to Clinton's advice. In fact, Kerry numbers went up when he concentrated on Iraq and the War on terror, rather than the economy as Clinton advised. These stories hurt.

4) In the wake of defeat, is when Clinton was the worst. That he praised Rove on the campaign he ran and made a point of saying he liked both Kerry and Bush within a week or two of the election hurt. Then there was the whisper campaign generated by Clinton allies that Kerry was not taking a place as just 1 of the 100 Senators and implying that he was at odds with Reid. The fact is that Kerry, by virtue of being the nominee, was a party leader - not the party leader, but a party leader - a status that the Clinton allies were denying. Clinton also had a conflict of interest as the last former President and the husband of HRC - this showed most when in 2005, he spoke of Kerry, a Democrat with far more national security credentials than almost any other Democrat, as weak on defense - rather than embracing Kerry's position on the war on terror. With the specter of Kerry running, he likely didn't want to hand that to Kerry. However, had the Democrats continued to keep that as their policy, the reaction of people like George Will that Kerry was right would have positioned us best on national security. The fact is that contrary to the list in BC's book, there was no Senator who understood more than the guy who wrote "The New War". The constant belittling Kerry and blaming Kerry for the SBVT by all the Clinton people was painful - and that did color my picture of the Clintons for the worse.

As to the campaigning, the question I would ask is who called whom. I seriously doubt the Kerry campaign begged him to campaign. By the time Clinton campaigned, Kerry alone had already had huge rallies - that broke all previous records. Of course Bill Clinton was a draw - but I seriously doubt the attendance had it just been Kerry would have been much less. I saw the entire thing on CSPAN and it was emotional - as the first time Clinton was out and he was good - but Kerry's speech was equally well received - judging from the applause. The media reports all spoke mostly of Clinton, because his being out was the news. In fact, either CNN or MSNBC cut away as soon as Clinton ended. So, newswise - I would guess it helped Kerry less than the local coverage of a just Kerry rally would have. Now, I've seen people post that Kerry would not have won PA without that rally. This is extremely unlikely - this was downtown Philadelphia - an area that ALWAYS is very Democratic. The African American turn out across the country was record breaking - even where Bill Clinton didn't go. There is no reason to think Philadelpia would be different. In Pittsburgh, it wasn't Clinton but THK who made a difference. I suspect that was the case in the affluent Philadelphia suburbs - as there were likely many independents that remembered her as their Senator's wife and as one ex-PA Republican in my area accepted Kerry as good because otherwise she wouldn't have married him.

[lumpy]

129. Hogwash

fitting name

[Darth_Kitten]

42. She's a woman, she knows how to work, hon.

:eyes:

Funny, she's the one who HAD to work. Next........

[jgraz]

85. But can she iron my shirt?

I figured since you were bringing the sexism, we might as well go all the way.

I'd type more, but I have to get up and make the coffee while my girlfriend sleeps (seriously). :P

[emilyg]

144. I want your kitten to aim at DU-P.

[FrenchieCat]

19. So she doesn't get to lead even her own rabid supporters?

Wow. That's seems sexist. Why should "he" be in charge of those who love her soooo much, till they can barely stand him?

So in essence, she has nothing to offer the party. Since so many of her "followers" prefer to run to the other party....the one that is against her too!

I'm writing a letter to Diane Feinstein too. She's my senator...and I have a few things to ask her about this phenomenon? Like who's leading who?

[mamalone]

26. Have I ever told you....

how much I like you? :hug:

[SwampG8r]

57. me too frenchie is da bomb

:grouphug:

[Cha]

110. Could you tell her to stop lying

about hilary winning the popular vote with the "18 million", too?

Thanks Frenchie.

[JTFrog]

34. Can't you fucking people ever take responsibility for ANYTHING?

He'll work his ass off to get those voters to back him. But Miss Daisy and her supporters better back the fuck off his coattails when he does.

[Beacool]

74. No it isn't , it's a failure of YOUR candidate to trust and inspire the rest of us.

It's not Hillary's job, it's Obama's job to win people to his side.

[jgraz]

86. So, it was just her job to divide the party and piss everybody off?

Well, let's hope Obama's as good at HIS job as she was at hers.

[Beacool]

89. She was his opponent, not his sister.

He did plenty to piss off her supporters too. That's why it's a primary, not a lovefest.

[jgraz]

93. Actually, I thought she was his cranky old aunt

:eyes:

[mcctatas]

5. I guess even "the goddess of peace" doesn't have the ability

to herd cats. I prefer to think that most of this is just part of the winger's divide and conquer "strategery", because the alternative makes me throw up a little in my mouth if I am to believe that there are supposed "feminists" and "democrats" out there stupid enough to vote for McCrazy!!!!

[Beacool]

77. Well, start throwing up........

There are quite a few lifelong Democrats who will not vote for Obama under any circumstance.

[PatGund]

88. If they're not willing to vote for the nominee.....

....and the nominee that Sen. Clinton HERSELF endorsed, then they're not Democrats, lifelong or otherwise

[John Q. Citizen]

115. How many? And how would you know so much about them?

[lumpy]

141. God, what is this shit about people throwing up in their mouths??

Is it some kind of psycho weakness?

[onetwo]

6. Most of her 18 mil came from 10-minute decision primary voters who will fall in line in November.

I wouldn't worry about these more passionate supporters just yet. Just like from-the-beginning Obama supporters, these people were highly invested emotionally in Hillary's push. Let's give them all a few weeks to adjust.

If they're still a problem in July, then Obama should to address the situation personally.

[FrenchieCat]

10. Shouldn't that be Hillary that should address the situation?

After all she made the situation be what it is.

How could she believe that she can lead an entire nation, when she can't even get her most ardent supporters to act right. I mean, she gave a whole speech on what they needed to do. Hell, looks like they weren't even listening to her. That's weak.

[onetwo]

17. Right...

...it's a balance between effectively getting her supporters in line and effectively getting her off the national stage.

It appears that the belief amongst the hold-outs is that Clinton was forced to give the speech like a tortured POW and that she really didn't mean it. You're right -- it's her fault for riling up her supporters like this.

[Oleladylib]

28. I don't think so.

[4themind]

12. We need to be careful about

assigning relative support based upon the number of websites devoted to something (heck how many forums for flat out racists are there in the world, and any random person can make this site and create dozens of usernames to argue with them self in an echo chamber) We'd need some polling data to get a more accurate reading, relatively speaking. Personally I think her speech hit the right notes, and it may take some time to bring the rest of the supporters around. It may take about a week at least, for the anger in general to abate (if some studies are to be believed). So in short, the jury is still out and I think we should wait and see before talking about her relative sway.

[FrenchieCat]

16. Well, fine.....I wait.

But if she it doesn't appear like she has any control over the most rabid ones, then as far as I'm concern, she sucks as a leader.

They will be making her look bad.

I'm still gonna do my letters about her leadership capabilities...and make a point that I am questioning her skills...since she was supposed to be able to this on Day one.

Ironic that those who say they respect and admire her the most are gonna be the ones that make her look inadequate. Weird.

[cboy4]

21. You have until noon on Wednesday Frenchie and then

you're done.

I wouldn't expect Obama supporters to jump so quickly on the Hillary bandwagon had the outcome been reversed.

It hasn't even been one week since she gave that concession speech in which she exaggerated Obama's qualifications for the good of the party.

I've already said I'll be voting for Obama.

But having examined your posts throughout this process, there's no doubt in my mind you would not be voting for Hillary if she were the nominee instead of Obama.

That makes me the better Democrat.

There's no question about it, as the great Ray Taliaferro likes to say.

[Maddy McCall]

30. ...

:thumbsup:

It's gonna be fun watching her explode when Hillary's selected as Obama's VP, too.

:rofl:

[cboy4]

32. Oh there will be multiple heads exploding.

Hi Maddy :hug:

[Beacool]

79. I doubt that the arrogant man will even ask.

In which case, it'll be a quiet summer and fall for me.

[Saturday]

38. *applause* nt

[JohnnyLib2]

40. Nice, calm response.

Wrong bait; fish not biting. :thumbsup:

[lumpy]

142. Man your're trying to reason with a doorknob.

People like this only appreciate insults.

[cboy4]

147. What a terrible insult to good and decent doorknobs throught

America.

More like a piece of driftwood, yet less intelligent.

[Youphemism]

23. Yes, she got them upset in the past, but at this point...

It's those rabid supporters who won't listen to their candidate that make me more confused.

What is the rationale for supporting Hillary by not listening to her?

Do they think she's lying when she says that voting for Obama is the best course of action for her now?

How can you disrespect someone you respect like that?

[ima_sinnic]

25. she has not been a "leader" on anything since the early 90s, with her healthcare thing

and we all know how that went.

Her "votes" may have been okay with progressives in certain areas -- certainly not regarding IWR and Kyl/Lieberman, when real LEADERSHIP was so needed -- but what bold legislation has she introduced? When was the last time she took a risk and really stuck her neck out about anything? She was always noted for holding a finger to the wind before doing anything.

She is NOT leadership material. She has a well-known former popular president as a husband. Without him, she would not particularly stand out as anybody.

[Oleladylib]

27. So it was her fault when she was in it, it's her fault when she is out of it...

need a big box of tissues much...So SOME Obama supporters are gonna be known eventually as crybabies. We TRUE Hillary supporters have some time to listen to her lead..remembering in some areas she has to say what she has to say...just like O.

[CreekDog]

29. People are responsible for their own behavior

Most of Hillary's supporters are Obama's supporters now. We have seen at DU as they have one by one enthusiastically announced their support of Obama, many times in quite touching and sincere messages and other times simply in support of Democratic values.

Hillary is doing the right thing now and most of her supporters are Democrats and acting as you would expect, in support of their values.

If some knuckleheads, and it is a small minority of her supporters, choose to support McCain or something like that, that is their responsibility, not Hillary's.

I don't like the Original Post because it sets a ridiculous standard that anything a supporter does is the responsibility of the candidate, something i hated when applied to Obama and I hate it just as much when applied to Hillary.

[Iceburg]

31. Frenchie are you a Freeper or do you simply not accept Obama's leadership on unity?/nt

[lumpy]

133. Oh come on, she just enjoys rattling her cage and telling the

world how much she is capable of hating.

[sufrommich]

143. And yet others get tombstoned for far less vitriol.

Go figure.

[MonkeyFunk]

145. That's the most stunning thing

That she's still here after all this.

[quickesst]

33. If the tables were reversed......

The glass slipper you're trying to shoe HRC supporters with, would be a perfect fit for Obama fans. How soon we forget all the "I'll never vote for Hillary" threads. Selective amnesia is convenient when things are going your way. I'd bet my life, had HRC won, this board would be filled with the hatred, and lowbrow comments that have become so common among Obama fans. The choir may eat this bullshit up, but those still in control of their sense of logic and fair play know it rings with dishonesty, and delusion. Thanks.
quickesst

[lumpy]

136. I will never forget the " I hate her f**king guts" thread.

That was a classic example of hate contributed by the Hillary Hating crowd.

[JoFerret]

35. Stop harping and wallowing

in this deadender backwater of bile.

Onward. Forward. We have an election to win.

[rug]

36. Obama clearly has no effect over you.

[Lilith Velkor]

39. What a leader!

:eyes:

[Saturday]

37. Bitter, bitter, bitter. nt

[Darth_Kitten]

41. Geez, what is it to you if people don't blindly follow your chosen leader?

Move on, already.

[Beacool]

80. They act like the Borg.

Resistance is futile......

:eyes:

[Phillycat]

107. No shit!

I don't listen half the time when my LOVED ONES tell me what to do, much less a politician!

[Independent-Voter]

45. Wierd, ain't it?

[Evergreen Emerald]

46. It is not up to Clinton to sway voters. It is up to Obama to earn voters

From the beginning of this campaign, Obama supporters have demanded that Clinton give Obama the nomination.

He must earn the support.

[ClassWarrior]

58. So then you agree that Clinton has absolutely no leadership...

...over her supposed "supporters?"

NGU.

[Evergreen Emerald]

60. You are setting up a straw man.

Clinton is a proven leader. She is powerful and strong and brilliant.

Her supporters are also powerful and strong and brilliant. Many have rejected Obama. It is up to him to earn his support. You expect it to be handed to him by Clinton. For some reason you have this double standard: Clinton must DO everything. Obama must be HANDED everything.

No. I do not think that Clinton has no leadership. She has great leadership abilities. I think that Obama has to earn the votes of people who are not simply followers.

[ClassWarrior]

64. Nobody said Clinton "must" anything. The OP simply observed that HRC...

...claimed to be a "leader" when apparently she can't even lead her most devoted fans.

NGU.

[Evergreen Emerald]

66. Well, again. She is a leader. She is just not the head of a cult.

[ClassWarrior]

67. Just like that? No proof necessary? She just needs a cult member to declare it?

NGU.

[Evergreen Emerald]

68. you stopped making sense two posts ago

why do I continue to respond? I honestly don't know.

[Beacool]

81. Unlike someone else who comes to mind...........

:eyes:

[lumpy]

138. Obama has not succeeded in leading his most devoted

supporters, at least on this forum, to give up vilifying Hillary Clinton.

[bvar22]

118. Her supporters are also powerful and strong and brilliant...

Helping elect Republicans is "brilliant"?
:eyes:

[lumpy]

137. By that premise, Obama appears not to have much influence

or leadership over his supporters to do the right thing and accept Hillary Clinton's sincere support of Obama.

[Raineyb]

99. Actually, it's up to Clinton to lead her supporters to the nominee

That's what everyone else did. Why Clinton should get a pass is beyond me. She created this divide she damn sure better do something to fix it or she won't have much of a career in the Democratic party.

The only person in this race who behaved as though they were entitled to the nomination is Clinton. Ms. "It'll be over by February 5" didn't plan to run a long race. Obama worked his ass off to win the nomination. Your refusal to even acknowledge what he's done is telling.

Regards

[MonkeyFunk]

49. Will you guys shut the fuck up with this nonstop hectoring?

[SwampG8r]

59. okay thats twice now

i agree with monkey
sheesh yall are killing me here
hell must have frozen solid

[CatnHat]

51. One major

difference between Obama supporters and Hillary supporters is Hillary supporters can actually think "independently"; while Obama supporters actually "hang" on every word and syllable Obama mutters.

[Blue-Jay]

100. If you actually think that,

then you're not one to talk about "independent thinking", are you?

[Raineyb]

103. Have you read the numerous nonsensical practically identical

responses to questions posted by non-Clinton supporters?

Oh, I get it. You live in opposite-land.

Never mind.

Regards

[JVS]

53. I'd be more impressed with the sincerety of some of the Hillary supporters who claim that they...

are loyal to the party, if instead of attacking you for bringing this to their attention, they would attack those among their own ranks who engineer such divisive projects. It's a shame that many of the "good ones" don't take a stand against it.

[niceypoo]

54. You are the only one left spewing anger at Hillary and her Supporters...

and as of my posting your thread has recieved 0 recommends. The Others have moved on, I suggest you move on also. You cannot heap abuse upon people for six solid months then expect them to want to go to bed with you three days later.

[burythehatchet]

61. Hillary pulled the pin out of the grenade. Her campaign

will be remembered as a most destructive and divisive period in American history.

[Evergreen Emerald]

65. I cannot let this BS continue. That is a lie.

Her campaign was LESS negative and divisive than Obama's. You are ignoring everything Obama did from shouting "Racism!" at every legitimate criticism to blaming Clinton for Bhutto's death, to the Harry and Louise republican ads, to dissing the Clinton Presidential legacy while embracing Reagan, to calling Clinton a liar and like-Bush.

Obama did the worst thing I have ever seen in a campaign: he called the Clintons "RACIST!"

So, when you and your Obama supporting friends continue to spew the lies about her running a negative campaign, you are continuing the distortions and lies of the Obama campaign.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

69. amen!

[ClassWarrior]

73. Links please. Or are these "faith-based facts" too?

NGU.

[Evergreen Emerald]

75. Seriously. You know the history of the last two months as well as I do.

"Links please" is the last bastion of the poster who knows exactly what happened the last two months and has no argument for it. The intellectual lazy way out of a discussion.

[ClassWarrior]

78. "You know the history of the last two months as well as I do..."

...is the last bastion of the poster who's been asked to prove the lies he/she/it has spewed and can't.

NGU.

[Evergreen Emerald]

84. look at my thumb...

...

[Doityourself]

91. There you have it. It's bullshit..and the poster knows it. Can't prove it..just throw it out there

anyway and hope it sticks..ala Rove, Cheney, Bushie and Faux News tactic...

[Raineyb]

112. Do they have links

to accusation pulled out of someone's butt?

Regards

[Doityourself]

90. You got a link where Obama called the Clinton's racist? If not...then STFU with the lies.

[Evergreen Emerald]

92. amazing

The distortions and lies continue even after you won. You will not admit the facts before your very eyes. Either you all have memory problems or are covering your ears and eyes and shouting lalalalala to avoid reality.

The links have been posted numerous times. The surrogates shouting "Racism!" from Obama's campaign were on the news 24/7. The facts of Obama admitting the campaign sending out letters calling the Clintons racist in the debate are there for all to see.

You choose to ignore...that is your choice.

[Doityourself]

96. You said Obama..please post the link. I'm begging you please..or you know what to do..oh and btw

what did Bill mean when he said what he said in South Carolina? I can produce a link of his words and a video, if you need a reminder. Now again, please post the link of Obama calling the Clinton's racists. You made the statement, now back it up.

[SIMPLYB1980]

124. Well said!

:toast: :yourock:

[MyNameGoesHere]

62. Shouldn't you be helping move forward and getting Obama elected?

Why waste the lingering hate and bashing for HRC. She is moving on maybe you should let go the rock.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

63. give it a fucking break frenchie .......Clinton released her delegates last night...

stop your incessant Hillary bashing and whining please?

http://qconline.com/archives/qco/display.php?id=390566

[cboy4]

95. No, I want her to keep it up so she gets her ass TD'd.

She's one of the foulest Obama supporters at DU by far.

I'm wondering if there are any psychological issues involved in her constant passive aggressive behavior.

[seaglass]

132. Yep, I am really looking forward to this next week and seeing this

place cleaned up :-)

[lumpy]

139. The damage done by these so-called Obama 'supporters'

to Democratic unity is just as bad as anything McCain's supporters could have done. It is an arrow in Obama's side every time they spew their hate.

[Beacool]

70. Obsess much???

Hillary doesn't need to prove anything to you, Obama or the party leaders.

Your ill feelings for Hillary are well noted. Her supporters are not a collective and will do whatever they see fit in November. Some will vote for Obama and some will not.......

:shrug:

[ecstatic]

71. How many of the "18 mil" were from Operation Chaos and Diebold (0 votes for Obama in Harlem??)

Unofficial Tallies in City Understated Obama Vote
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/nyregion/16vote.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/C/Clinton,%20Hillary%20Rodham


Many voting for Clinton to boost GOP
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/17/many_voting_for_clinton_to_boost_gop/

Please note: I'm not blaming Clinton for this, as she obviously can't control the machines or the behavior of others.

[Freddie Stubbs]

72. The vast majority of Clinton supporters will vote for Obama

In fact, I've seen far more posts from Obama supporters who said that they would not support Clinton if she were the nominee. I've even seen quite a few who said they would not support Obama if Clinton were on the ticket.

[LanternWaste]

82. I fully supported Sen. Clinton from day one until

I fully supported Sen. Clinton from day one until the bitter end. Now I support Sen. Obama and fully expect (and look forward to) his Presidency.




Having said that-- party unity can just as easily easily begin with us. And I think one of the first steps would be for us to stop blaming the "them" and working on "us". The fringe, already ineffectual at best, will quietly drop off into the voids soon enough.

I think that most wounds will more quickly heal if treated rather than constantly picked at.

[SeaLyons]

83. It's attitudes like yours that prolong unity in our party....

[Yes We Did]

87. Frenchie... It's time to move forward.

One person can only do so much, and she is finally on board now. Let's focus on that.

Hillary is doing everything she can right now. However, the voters will make up their own minds; regarless of what she does.

Look back at the Edwards supporters... Some came along and some did not... Even after he endorsed Obama, some still stuck with Clinton.

She is doing what she can.

[11 Bravo]

94. When your candidate speaks, do you genuflect, drop to your knees, and swear obeisance?

Wait, never mind, bad example.

[Orsino]

97. She has plenty of effect...

...and we needn't worry about a few hundred impostors among her real supporters. The former were never her responsibility.

[renate]

98. FrenchieCat, I adore you unreservedly

I think I've told you so in the past, not nearly as often as I've thought it.

However, I have to disagree with you here. Wes Clark and his blog are examples of how a person's supporters don't blindly fall in line... in fact, I think we Clarkies have always prided ourselves on that. Look at all the Obama folks who flooded back there last weekend after Hillary's endorsement... people who'd left after Wes endorsed Hillary because they didn't support her just on his say-so. (I will also point out that he has never discouraged dissent on his blog--another thing we've prided ourselves on--and I would be more than slightly alarmed by a leader who was able to make his followers march in lockstep... I'm thinking of Bushbots here although other historical parallels come to mind.) I think you'll agree that Wes Clark is one hell of a leader, and his supporters certainly didn't all go for Hillary.

[JoFerret]

101. Stop whining.

.

[TexasObserver]

105. 60% of Hillary's voters have already moved to Obama

That leaves 40% that are about equally divided among three groups:

1. Republicans who crossed over to sabotage the Dem primaries
2. DINOS who only vote in the Dem primaries for local races, vote Republican for president in the fall, and like the Republicans, voted for Hillary to sabotage the Dem presidential process
3. The true believers who are still mad and haven't yet come around

The first two groups NEVER vote for the Dem running for president in the general election. The last group will come around, except for a very few. Right now, they're thinking with their ... emotions.

[cbayer]

108. OK, I am really confused.

Two days ago, you had a post about how sexist it was to talk about how Clinton supporters would vote for McCain.

Then yesterday, you had a post about the foolishness of buying into the MSM's divide and conquer tripe.

Then today, you post this piece that does both of those things in spades. I guess it's all right if you do it.

You have shown yourself to be quite a hypocrite.

[Forkboy]

114. Both you and her defenders are wrong in this thread.

It's not up to her to get them to do the right thing.

It's not up to Obama to get them to do the right thing.

It's up to the people themselves to do the right thing.

Take some responsibility for yourselves. You're all smart enough that none of you should need to be led like a child. The choice is clear.

[EFerrari]

128. And hasn't it been less than three whole days?

:wtf:

[Forkboy]

130. Yep.

The vast majority will do the right thing this November. What some are saying right now won't be what they're saying then.

[Schema Thing]

116. Sycophants are the same everywhere. cf. Wes Clark's CCN blog

....was reduced, over the past many months, to a group of people who followed Larry Johnson's lead instead of Wes Clark's lead. They disregarded everything Wes Clark ever said (with the exception of a few words endorsing Hillary) and became sycophants for Hillary.

I just think they are the minority. I hope so anyway.

[tandot]

117. Here ya go:

I hope to soon see positive posts from you about Obama instead of constantly whining about Clinton.

[BlackVelvet04]

120. No, Hillary doesn't get to decide who people vote for....

isn't that amazing? She doesn't control the minds of all of her supporters? they actually make their own decisions....the horror of it all.

[BlooInBloo]

121. If Clinton isn't lying, and REALLY wants to help Obama...

Then she should be forcefully coming down on this. Same with Clinton supporters.

[indimuse]

123. YOU are unbelievable!

!!!

[Heather MC]

125. They weren't voting for her, they were voting against Obama , there's difference

[AtomicKitten]

126. Interesting point.

K&R

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

131. Excellent point - surprised I didn't think of it first!

[MonkeyFunk]

134. And Obama can't shut up his hateful, lying supporters

you're still here.

[Chloroplast]

140. Wow...

Talk about hateful! Hillary isn't the presumptive nominee, end of story. Does that mean that Obama and his supporters deserve to be called every dirty name under the sun? Obviously not. Does it meant that Hillary's deserve disrespect? Of course not. Hillary lost for a variety of reasons and a major one was that she mismanaged her campaign. I don't advocate divisive speech in any way but have been subjected to it by other Democrats. Walking in to vote in my state's primary, the names I was called by fellow women (several old enough to be my mother) were hurtful but I got over it. Know how? Because I wasn't going to let emotions deprive me of making the best decision. Making generalizations about people can be very dangerous and is one reason why our country is in the shape it's in. I can't wait for the party to unite so that we can focus on beating McCain.

[MonkeyFunk]

146. No, I don't call Obama names

Only the particular supporters of his here are hateful and lie a lot. I call them on it.

The OP is a hateful liar - one of the worst I've ever seen here.

[Willo]

148. She lied and used some pretty divisive tactics

to solidify them in her camp. Her talent to divide and polarize has worked well on some of them and now they are left wandering in an abyss. She has no organizational or leadership qualities. If so, they are very well hidden.

Unless Hillary comes out and tells these people the truth, she will have simply just used them and tossed them aside.