Hate Speech

[H2O Man]

Q: What do you have when a wise man argues with a fool?

A: Two fools.


Last Friday, I went to an area "feed store" for some supplies for our puppies. I’ve gone to this store for many years, as I have raised cattle, pigs, chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys, and rabbits. These days, I no longer have pets other than dogs, cats, rabbits and tropical fish, but I still am a customer at the store, and know the owners and employees quite well.

Being in a chipper mood, I wore my Obama t-shirt (see above). While it may seem that the farm community in rural, upstate New York would be an unlikely place to go dressed in an Obama t-shirt, the fact is that small farms have been taking a beating under the Bush-Cheney administration. The resentment of the corporate mega-farm industry is going to be ripe for harvest this fall.

While I was there, I noticed one fellow staring at my shirt with what I took for a look of disapproval. He was ahead of me when I approached the counter, and began to engage in an emotional rant directed towards the cashier, but with an eye on my shirt.

"Did you hear who those democrats have nominated? That nigger Obama," he sputtered.

The two employees behind the counter grinned, and pointed towards me, one saying, "Well, a lot of people like him."

He continued his rant in a voice that increased in volume, "We’re not going to elect a nigger in this country." He turned and faced me, and started directing his hostility towards me. Under normal circumstance, I would have simply stepped around him like a barn-yard Frisbee, but he made it difficult to ignore him when he stepped towards me. So I assured him that the voters will elect Obama this fall, because there were more intelligent voters than ignorant ones.

I had hoped this would calm his frayed nerves, but it did not. "He hates the flag. He refuses to salute it, because he hates America. I served in Vietnam. How do you think this makes me feel?" he demanded of me.

I responded that he served in Vietnam decades ago, and that Obama is serving our country today. We can’t live in the past, can we?

He again stepped towards me, stepped back, then stepped towards me again. Being familiar with bovine body language, I placed my goods upon the counter, and turned towards him.

"I didn’t fight so that a nigger could be president," he yelled at me. By this time, all of the people in the store had stopped what they were doing, and were watching us.
"You fought for democracy. Senator Obama will be elected President of the United States. And if you don’t honor that, then you’re the ‘nigger’," I said.

The fellows behind the counter began laughing out loud. The man turned towards the one who had rang up his order, and said, "He’s putting that Jessie Jackson in his cabnet! He said he was! That should be enough to scare you!"

"You are enough to scare me right now," the cashier replied. The younger employee added, "You’re making that up. I haven’t seen that anywhere."

A female customer, who was in the back of the store, said loudly, "He’ll never get elected. They’ll get him" She then expressed the type of thought that defined the filth that resides in her mind. The cashier said, "You can’t talk like that in this store. Stop it."

The younger fellow offered to carry my purchase to my car. He was laughing the whole way. "That guy is an ass," he said. I agreed.

I’m not concerned with what that guy in the store thinks or says in the privacy of his own home. Stupid people are of no interest to me. But when he was ranting about "niggers" in public, and directing his venom at me, I believed that I needed to respond.

There are going to be people who are a bit more intelligent, but just as hateful as that man, who will speak out against Barack Obama between now and November. It is important that people of good will confront their hateful outbursts.

Your friend,
H2O Man

[SoonerPride]

1. You're more tolerant than I am. I would have spit in his face.

You should be commended for your patience with that bigot.

[EnviroBat]

62. For starters...

Then he would have found his tiny nuts punted up into his esophagus. I don't tolerate ignorant assholes getting in my face, much less speaking directly towards me.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Doityourself]

3. What an ignorant asshole!!

Depending upon where I am, I can feel the difference in the stares I get when I wear one of my Obama tshirts. But no one has uttered a word of negativity out loud. Best they keep their mouths closed if they have something negative to say...

[blondeatlast]

4. Indeed. It's time to air out the festering sores. It's going to be a long race, but we'll

be better off in so many ways for the next generation.

Thanks, H2OMan.

I'll remember this and spread the good word.

[The Night Owl]

5. Overt racists like the ones you describe in your story are out there, but for some reason...

...I just don't buy your account. Something about it, perhaps your surprisingly detailed remembrance of what multiple people said, just sounds made up.

[H2O Man]

7. Oh.

That's your deal. I don't care what you think.

[AuntPatsy]

13. there is NO way that H20 would ever make up anything and call it fact...

I really think you owe him an apology, he has proven his worth and mettle over time...very disrespectful...but than considering the rampant disrespect one is faced with on DU lately, not very surprising..I still think you owe this poster an apology, at least look through past threads by this particular op so you could have something to back up your assertions, why are so many people quick to judge without first investigating all the elements that are needed to make said judgment?


Whatever, I believe it because I have been witness to similar individuals stating pretty much the same thing and I trust the opt which there are not many that I do...

[The Night Owl]

27. What should I apologize for?

I would be lying if I were to write that I believe H2O Man's account. I don't and I'm well within my rights to say so.

Of course, I have no way of knowing if H2O Man's account is true, partially true, or totally fabricated... but neither do you. All I'm saying is that the account seems to me to be a fabrication rather than a recollection.

[Hugabear]

31. You practically called the OP a liar

By saying that you think the OP fabricated the account, you're basically saying that the OP lied.

Have you any evidence of this particular OP ever lying about anything else? Does the OP have a habit of fabricating stories?

[The Night Owl]

44. I think I indicated quite clearly that my reaction to H2O Man's post is based not on evidence...

...but on a gut reaction.

[Hugabear]

47. Okay - then your gut reaction is that the OP is lying

Better?

You base your opinion that the OP is lying simply because he was able to recall the encounter in great detail? In the absence of any contradictory evidence, without being able to provide a single instance of the OP lying, you come forth with your observation. You weren't there, yet somehow you just know.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you look questioning the first-hand account of someone who was actually involved with the story?

[The Night Owl]

50. Don't put words in my mouth.

As I wrote earlier, I don't claim to "know" if H2O Man's account is true or not. All I'm saying is that I don't believe it. I could be wrong. Of course, I could be right too.

The way I see it, my reaction to H2O Man's account is no less based in fact than yours. You choose to believe H2O Man's account even though you have no evidence that it is true. I choose to not believe H2O Man's account even though I have no evidence that it is not true. The way I see it, we're even.

I'll tell you what... In the interest of fairness and because neither of us have any evidence to justify our feelings, I will take an agnostic stance on the whole thing if you do the same.

[Terran]

55. You are wrong.

End of story.

[Me.]

72. By His Words Shall Ye Know Him

We don't know a lot of people but their words provide a context upon which to judge them and H20Man has written volumes over the years he has been here.

[sudopod]

57. Oh stop being such an attention whore.

Your vague distrust is not sufficient reason to tear down one of the more upstanding members of the DU community. (Moreover, my grandpa talks shit like that all the time. Been there, done that, got the tshit, etc) Burying our heads in the sand and pretending that racist assholes don't exist really doesn't help us as we strive to make our world a better place.

That's how it seems to me anyway. :p

[genna]

70. Racism and distrust exist because people of good will shut up and sit down. H20 is the man!

You're right.

It won't go away because we ignore it. It lingers because it remains unchallenged.

[rosesaylavee]

69. Silly.

[H2O Man]

40. Thank you.

I appreciate your support.

That fellow does not owe me an apology. Some wee dogs sit in front of a tv, and bark at the pictures. Other wee dogs sit in front of a computer screen, and bark mightily. That is the nature of wee dogs.

[mopinko]

16. writers tend to remember things.

that how you get to be a good writer. and as others have said, you might want to check the man's journal, and see who you are dealing with here.
if you don't want this thread to turn into a long list of such suggestions from your elders and betters here, you should apologize quickly.

[H2O Man]

37. For decades,

I was employed as a psychiatric social worker. This included many years in forensics. I testified in numerous court cases, including in criminal, family, and NYS Supreme Court. I never relied on notes to recall conversations that took place weeks or months before. I never had an attorney feel the need to refresh my memory with any document. I never had a single phrase questioned.

It is not because I worked at it. The capacity for memory, like intelligence, is largely genetic. Thus, a number of attorneys told me outside the courtroom that I reminded them of a couple of my uncles, who were high-ranking police investigators. One, who was recognized as one of the top investigators in the nation, had a co-worker describe him in an article as not needed a computer to keep massive quantities of information at instant recall. He has also been called a savant.

Like my late father, I can recall, without problem, discussions from the distant pass. Accurately. And that is no more popular with my wife, than it was with my mother.

A few years back, when my oldest brother was in a state hospital, he surprised doctors by his ability to recall information on boxing. Although he is greatly reduced in short term ability, he can easily recite the records of hundreds of boxers without any difficulty.

That someone would express surprise and disbelief that anyone can recall a discussion from four days ago may also speak of genetics. I do, of course, remember some fellows in the court cases who couldn't keep their conversations straight for four minutes, much less four days. They had a lot of common attributes, with even moderate intelligence not being one of them.

[mopinko]

68. wee dogs

you are a good one. and i have 2 little terriers. so i know how funny that is.

[Me.]

22. Interesting Comment Kreskin

You who was not there calls into question the veracity of the OP. I didn't know that a good memory or an attention to details is now suspect around here. Especially regarding H20Man who has, in his writing, been proven to have an amazing grasp of both. You have no standing, as you weren't there, to make such a comment.

As for people being virulent about Obama's race, to my dismay I heard someone who I was friends with use that term. I would never had guessed they would harbor such feelings and still am shocked. Though I don't know what surprised me more, that they hold such feelings or that they felt comfortable speaking them out loud. And for those who think the insidiousness of race hatred is not out there I say count your blessings that you have not encountered it.

[The Night Owl]

28. I don't claim to know whether H2O Man's story is true or not.

I fully acknowledge that my reaction to H2O Man's account is based on a gut reaction. I am allowed to have a gut reaction, am I not?

[Me.]

53. If You Have No Basis In Fact For Disputing The Story

I suggest you not pull a *. He who is famous for reaction by gut which has no basis in truth or fact.

[Hugabear]

30. Yeah - if the OP can't provide a link, then it's not true!

Isn't that how DU works? :sarcasm:

You know, some people actually do have pretty good memories.

[Cha]

32. More importantly ..

Who gives a shit what you believe? :)

[The Night Owl]

39. I don't post with the expectation that anyone should care about what I write. {EOM}

[bulldogge]

59. I happen

to live within about 20 miles of H2O, normally I would not bring this to the table but this needs to be verified. I am familiar with the "feed store" in question, I am also familiar with the sort of people in question and beyond that I am familiar with H2O mans ability to report in detail past experience, though that conversation was not necessarily that difficult to remember considering it was a matter of minutes from start to finish.

In this section of the country I have already had my own run ins with hate speech but I have also had run ins that left me surprised in a more positive sense. Today I was with my family and while we were getting the kids out of the car a gentleman slowly pulled up glaring at the rear of our car and noticed the "Obama 08" magnet. He rolled down the window and I was ready for a confrontation until he smiled and said "Yes! Obama" and drove off.

Not everyone is an intelligent person that is the harsh reality. Some people have found that their only real argument against a candidate is to spit forth racial slurs. I have a few friends who are voting for McCain, I am still puzzled by their decisions but they are able to back it up with what they feel are meaningful positions. Hate Speech never appears within our conversations.

I have known H2O man for over 3 decades and I don't always agree with everything he says but I know that the last thing he is going to do is go on a public forum and lie or exaggerate a situation involving racist dialog so let me put your gut feeling to rest.

Thank you

[H2O Man]

66. "Any time two people

think just alike, it means only one of them is thinking." -- Malcolm X

I'd still be careful disagrreeing with me -- I DO have a long memory, you know!

I think that you can verify that in the summer of 1998, after a racist hate group assaulted my nephew, I was outspoken. The things that I said were covered by every newspaper and tv/radio station in the area. And the group of thugs didn't like me.

I recall a debate with one defendant's attorney, outside the court. It was carried on the local tv news. I recall it word-for-word. I assume that attorney does, as well. (grin)

[bulldogge]

81. I had

say that for the sake of argument, truth be told I really can't think of any serious subjects where I have ever disagreed with you , in fact I normally leave enlightened (smile).

I am willing to bet this individual you ran into has never seriously looked into the campaign Obama is running, I think most people motivated to take part in discussions such as this board have done their research, I try to know as much about the people I do not support as those I do, otherwise I really have no true reason to debate or the ability to do so. An individual such as the man you ran into are the shallow foundation that people such as Bush and company depend on. They live in fear of themselves and those around them, especially those more educated in subjects they lack knowledge in. Instead of reaching out to learn they recoil and spread hate, like a venom.

I was speaking to my wife the other night and I was telling her that I understood what Obama and Clinton have done on one level but their sex and skin color mean next to nothing to me on another level. It is what they stand for that I am interested in.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

61. This poster

H2OMan has never come across as anything less than honest.

I believe his story.

I have seen people as ignorant as that ass in the feed store. I grew up with it. I heard a butthole in a restaurant/bar I was in yesterday say almost the same thing but used the term "darkie" instead of nigger.

I want one of those shirts.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

63. Dupe

dee-doop

[lligrd]

6. People Like That Will Actually Help Obama

as others see the real bigotry behind their hatred of Obama and the lunacy of their arguments.

[Labors of Hercules]

38. That is exactly right.

And when people witness others confronting it, they can't help but be affected.

That is how Obama will not only win the Presidency, but will change the dynamics of race in this country.

[H2O Man]

48. Right.

If a vote were taken in that feed store, Obama would have won.

[AspenRose]

8. Thank you

I am reminded of a thread here a few days ago, when a DUer spoke of her conversation with a friend who said she'd never vote for Obama. Her conversation started with the infamous "I'm not a racist, but...." phrase. By her admission, she did NOTHING to counter it.

So thank you for standing up for decency. You had a choice, you stood up, and you were heard.

Americans of all ethnic persuasions who support Barack Obama for president will have their work cut out for them. But our country simply cannot afford the alternative. It may be uncomfortable, but if you have the big picture in mind and remember what's at stake, it'll get easier to smack the naysayers and bigots down.

(And good on the cashier, too! Keep supporting his business!)

[genna]

75. I think the coolest thing about this election as an AA is how many people have stepped forward

and said I don't hate you.

I don't hate you.
I don't hate people who look like you.
If I had a choice between you and the other guy, I might choose you.
I don't like other people who hate you for what you are.


I want a different reality.


I may not want the reality you want, but I pretty comfortable with the notion that we will have a shared destiny.


It makes me swell with pride.
I know I still might get in an altercation somewhere in the America because I am AA and have to defend myself, but I have the hope that it will just one bigot and not a group of bigots. I have the knowledge that I don't confront the blatant racism that my parents have. My parents weren't forced to accept the dejure segregation my grandparents experiences. But what brings a smile to my face is that my children just might walk through this country and never have a conversation with a blatant bigot.


I don't think Americans are at the love stage, but I think we are far removed from the fierce hate. It does my heart good.

[grantcart]

9. I think the best response to a guy like this is to not say anything but simply take out a pen

and start writing everything he says down. Follow him out to the car and remaining silent write down his lisence plate.

The thing is people like this also have full blown paranoia and he will sit there and wonder and worry for 8 months on whether you are a govt type or a get even type or maybe a scout for the Black Panthers. Just let him stew in his own hate and paranoia.

[blondeatlast]

11. Disagree. It's time to confront the latent racism (and sexism) in this country.

Many people think it's okay to be racist/sexist/whatever-ist; no one has ever called them out for it. It's what the BS "politically correct" thing is all about--putting the victims of offensive comments/jokes/etc. on the defensive. No one should ever apologize for being victimized by blatant rudeness (or worse). The offenders need to be confronted; it's why etiquette exists.

Your approach might work too, but I think I'll opt for H2OMan's.

[grantcart]

12. I have been confronting it loudly since the 70s and even have gotten into fights about it

but for the truly paranoid making them fearful is better than a confrontation - they will agonize about it for hundreds of hours.


The real danger now is not the outspoken racist who are widely ridiculed but the people who keep it quiet.

[H2O Man]

49. You may be right.

I really didn't take the time to think of many options.

[bleever]

82. But I bet

your footwork was right and your reflexes at the ready.

Verbal sparring was a good place for him to cut his losses, I'd bet.

[genna]

76. The silent menance is the people who keep quiet.

This is one of the reasons I like Obama. He usually thinks long and hard before he opens his mouth. A real straightforward introvert.

I'm glad he has a much better relationship with his extroverted wife (you think, you say) than Hill/Bill.


When he just smiles and says nothing, that change we are looking for element truly makes me well and truly excited. He can't say liberal stuff. It doesn't sell in this right oriented conversations, but he can think about packaging or legislating it all he wants.


Michelle Obama doesn't easily fall into many of the categorical stereotypes that circulate in America. I look forward to hearing what they say and what they won't say.

[JVS]

10. Wow. What a scene!

[Bluenorthwest]

14. I love rural NY

And that story just makes me sad to hear. What h2o man said and did, that gives me hope. I am always thrilled when I hear that we who type things also say and do things, in feed stores and such.
This is a great example of what might be faced and how to face it. Nothing but respect for the OP's actions and courage. Courage is the best thing. We are going to need it!
I've never heard such open hatred in NY state, and it does make me sad to hear it. It happens anywhere and everywhere I suppose. I've spent much time in Western NY. Beautiful as can be.

[rug]

15. Did you give him a quarter?

[Bunny]

51. .

:spray:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

65. The ugly, fucking fuck

!

[doublethink]

17. Wow dude ...... you know how much this story made me want ......

to get online and buy a few Obama shirts !!! :toast: ....... the bumper sticker alone just won't do anymore for me !!! Bring it !! How fun to finally be able to put down this raciest bullshit in public !!! Can't wait !!! Seriously all the best man, you did good. Peace.

[Tim4319]

18. And what part of Vietnam was he stationed in that didn't have

black people fighting for democracy too?

[Raineyb]

23. Mabye the guy thought that all those black people fighting in Vietnam

did so to be second-class citizens in the country they fought for.

People like that piss me off.

The funny thing is some people think that we should be understanding and treat them like a victim. Unbelievable!

Regards

[Annces]

19. I think being able to be calm is a good thing

But be careful, because this person could be violent.

[H2O Man]

25. Yes, you are right.

I was fully aware of that possibility, because of his behavior. Of all of the bad choices he might have made, that would certainly rank as the very worst, for him.

[Gregorian]

20. It's time to raise the consciousness of American society.

He was speaking from his fears and beliefs. You did well. And that helps in this process of becoming conscious. He is hopefully on his way to waking up. So many Americans are still "asleep". There is no way we could be murdering Iraqis if more of us were conscious.

It's important what he thinks at home, too. We cannot afford this low level of awareness any longer. And I admit that I fear for Obama's life.

I haven't been around this forum for the last half year. I'm working on my own level of consciousness. I'm paying attention to the present. I need it to regain what's left of my life. My body.

There's a book by Eckhart Tolle that I suggest everyone read. A New Earth. I'm not just frivolously saying this. It's phenomenal. We need to waken from our egoic state. This man is a captive of his own mind. Many are. Most are.

It seems to be the rural areas that are most severely affected by this unconsciousness.

Well, I've got a bon fire waiting to light. It's 8am, and time to get on the tractor. My therapy! :)

We are highly intelligent beings.

[EFerrari]

21. Public behavior matters.

Hi, H20 Man.

It's taken me much too long to figure out if public gestures of the kind you describe in your OP should be confronted or be ignored.

There is a house across the street owned by an elderly couple. Their grandson started visiting them last summer -- with about fifteen of his best friends. They made a terrible racket, night after night and later and later. At first I just ignored them, hoping the grandparents would step in and ask them not to keep the whole neighborhood awake.

This happened every night for most of a week and it just got worse. On the fifth night or so, I looked out to see what was going on and there were four cars idling in a line right down the middle of the street. There were two or three parked on the sidewalk. A crowd of (mostly) young men were talking loudly on my neighbor's porch and several of them were going between the porch and the idling cars. It was clear from their bearing that there was probably a gun or two around, too.

Their in-your-fact anti-social behavior was a dare to all of us who lived on the block and the more we ignored it, the worse it got. These kids were taking our silence for consent or worse, for cowardice.

So, that night and every night this crew assembled for a repeat performance, we dealt with them until they stopped. They had no interest in congregating quietly. It was as if they needed to mark their "territory" with that awful noise. Once they were denied that outlet, they left. There was no reason for them to be here if they couldn't control the whole block with their ugly racket.

[suffragette]

24. You standing your ground, calmly and with conviction, helped

the two employees to stand up as well. I'm particularly impressed with the one who challenged the man's statement by saying "You’re making that up. I haven’t seen that anywhere." The next time he encounters people, particularly friends or relatives spouting such hate, he is more likely to counter it and you provided a model method of doing so.

That's empowerment and I applaud you for it.

:applause:

[hardbop]

26. Jesse Jackson in the cabinet ...

================
The fellows behind the counter began laughing out loud. The man turned towards the one who had rang up his order, and said, "He’s putting that Jessie Jackson in his cabnet! He said he was! That should be enough to scare you!"
=================

The prospect of "black payback time" seems to be a common fear amongst those who have a race problem with Obama.

I'm not sure if he can reach all of these people as their negative attitudes are so entrenched at this point. But he needs to keep getting his message out there. To reassure everyone that he is inclusive and is an American first.

[genna]

77. what hardbop said plus WHERE IS THE LITERACY on how our representative democracy works.

Bill Clinton was the most highly investigated president in recent history.

Congress didn't look up Bush's lies to impeach the vice-president and some of the cabinet.


If Obama makes it across the finish line WINNING, he can expect that they will shove a microscope in every crack and crevice throughout his administration.

Do they really think he would be able to press this pay back agenda without having the Congress and Supreme Court to contend with?

[corkhead]

29. Proof of progress. When I was a kid that idiot wouldn't have stood out like the sore thumb he is now

I am looking forward to Obama's inauguration breaking the back of that shit once and for all.

Bravo:applause: and thank you H2O Man.

[Hugabear]

33. Obama's a Muslim, don't you know?

Unfortunately, we're going to be dealing with a lot of racism and Islamophobia this year. These are the types of people who send out emails to everyone in their address book. Some people you just can't reason with.

[cbc5g]

34. You kick ass H20 Man! Indeed the world is changing for the better

And I'm happy of the way you handled it, showing him the wrongness of his ways in a calm manner.

[Marrah_G]

35. I have never run across someone talking like that and I hope I never do

[intheflow]

83. You are SO lucky!

My ex-in-laws could spout this bile like a whale spouts water to breathe. x(

[butterfly77]

36. What in the hell does he think blacks were fighting for.

is it so he and others can enjoy all of the fruits of this country. I get so damn tired of hearing about,jesse jackson,al sharpton, farrakhan or any other black person they dislike anytime a black person runs for a particular office.

What is wrong with these people they have some of the most crooked lying thieves in history running this country and fucking it up and they think that is all right. They don't give a damn because they can't see beyond color...This is what is wrong with a lot of the Obama haters, they could care less what he says or does because they are blinded by his color..

[livetohike]

41. Sadly "they" are everywhere

Good for you to speak up. It's what MLK said about speaking up when one sees an injustice. It's the people that don't confront these attitudes who bewilder me.

[ms liberty]

42. "Being familiar with bovine body language, I placed my goods upon the counter, and turned..."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I love that kind-of dry, matter-of-fact wit of yours, H20Man - Good job, and I'm glad you survived your encounter with a "raging bull"!!!

:yourock:

K&R

[faithfulcitizen]

43. You are my hero.

Seriously, although I have admired Obama since that amazing convention speech, I had a lot of doubts about a younger African American man as our nominee until the country had more time to get to know him better. Why? perhaps because I know (many) people like this man you encountered. I live in Indiana, and have met many like him. You handled it so well and courageously. I would hope I could say what you said, but I don't know. These people are bullies and you never know what they're going to do. But, I know you did the right thing, and you are a hero for justice. Thank you!

[H2O Man]

46. Long before I began

speaking in public, I was one of the top amateur boxers in the country. By the time I was a teen-ager, I had been featured in several boxing magazines that are sold internationally. I do not look for confrontations, but have absolutely no fear that someone else might start one. That comes in handy for someone who speaks out publicly. (smile)

[genna]

78. I've been to southern Indiana. It's the first time in my life I've heard someone refer to AAs as

negroes. It was 2002. I literally had to take two steps back in Seymour, IN.


I asked my friend who grew up in Delaware, what in the hell were you thinking moving out here with these folks?

She told me something that the freedom riders must have been thinking when they went to desegregate those lunch counters. Why can't I live where I want? work where I want? and be who I am where I want?

It ain't so bad. We each need to know our unique destiny and walk in it. I know it is not mine to desegregate.

Hats off to y'all.


What I say to you, faithfulcitizen, is to pick your fights carefully. For people who live in places where this kind of talk is NOT COMMON, they don't understand the level of inequality and lack of hope that exists throughout these United States. They live in places where diversity, equality and hope for all is embraced. Every where ain't like upstate NY or Seymour, IN but there are more than enough of us who have caught hell in them to say...Hillary's message---he can't win---resonated in these places.


Obama would be right to ask her and Bill to go back to those same places and say he can win with a camera and a microphone. I can't wait until the traveling press talks about ALL THE THINGS THEY HEARD AND SAW in these far flung places.

[DemReadingDU]

84. Well, all the people in Indiana aren't like this

I grew up in Seymour, went to the same high school as John Mellencamp.

:)

[ms liberty]

45. OOPS. Inadvertent double post. Disregard, please! n/t

[sandsavage]

52. H20 Man You Rock!

Do I believe this exactly as it happened? You bet I do.
My husband is white, I'm part Native American. We adopted four AA children
raised two white grandchildren.I'm pretty dark of completion. All of these
kids were raised together. The two grandkids were the youngest. Can't even
begin to tell you the ignorance we encountered over the years.

I want to grab and hug the bejebbers out of every person I see in an
Obama tee shirt. We know you are going to walk in our shoes a bit, wearing
that tee shirt.Getting myself all teared up just thinking about it.
Thank you H20 Man from the bottom to the top of my heart thank you

[nxylas]

54. You're a brave, brave man

It takes a lot of guts to stand up for what's right when faced with several threatening individuals like that. I don't think I'd have had the courage to do it.

[H2O Man]

58. It was one guy.

In my younger days, more than one wouldn't have presented a problem. And I suppose I'd have responded the same if this guy were triplets. I'm not sure if that is really courage so much as being part Irish.

[sudopod]

56. You're a better man than me.

Holy shit, them's fightan words where I'm from. You handled it like a pro.

Good on ya! ;)

[Major Hogwash]

60. Good for you.

I have my doubts about that guy being a Vietnam veteran, though.

I ran into a situation a few months ago at a store when a guy was complaining about Democrats and then he mentioned that he was a Vietnam veteran.
When I heard him say that I asked him if he had voted for Kerry, and he said "Hell, no."
I said, "too bad" and started to walk off.
He said, "what's that supposed to mean?"
So, I turned and said, "doesn't seem right to me anyone who served in the Vietnam war would support a war like this now in Iraq. Kerry went to Vietnam and then came back to try and stop it. You know McCain ain't going to stop it, he already said he wants us to be there for 100 years."
And then I turned and left as he was mumbling something about Kerry this and Kerry that.
I wasn't going to change his mind anyway.

Even if that guy was a Vietnam veteran that you met, he probably didn't support Kerry in 2004 either.
Some people are just too hard-headed and set in their ways to adapt to change.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

67. Thank you

for this one Major Hogwash!

Good for you.

I wish you had been with me when a marine here in San Diego gave me a bunch of shit for wearing this shirt:

He called me a traitor and said I didn't deserve to live in this country. It was scary. I am old enough to be this mans mother and he spoke to me with true hatred. I told him that I want to bring the troops back home where they belong - I wanted them to be with their children and families. I want the Constitution back.

[NYC_SKP]

64. Bravo, shine light on the roaches..

I'm glad about the way the people there seemed to come around in your defense rather than vice-versa.

When ignorance is brought to light it's less likely to survive. Obama in the whitehouse may bring floods of light to bear on Americans and lead to a marked drop in racist attitudes, albeit with some tense moments.

I'm glad it didn't get physical, and thanks for representing!

[rosesaylavee]

71. You did better than I would have...

I can't stand it when people use that word. You did well not to return his anger while still getting more than a few points with the cash register crowd.

Love this part "So I assured him that the voters will elect Obama this fall, because there were more intelligent voters than ignorant ones."

[ampad]

73. I hope all you people

that keep screaming hate every single time someone criticizes Hillary read this post. It seems to me you need a brushing up on what real hate is and here you go.

[1Hippiechick]

74. Oh geez...here we go with the "you people" phrase again.....

[genna]

79. You know some of my best friends are you people

:blush:

[1Hippiechick]

80. Some of you are my best friends - "you people" is offensive depending on the context in which it is

used.
:hi:

[DemReadingDU]

85. I think it was right for you to speak up and confront that guy

For too long, so many people just said nothing and ignored it. This seems to give the other guy permission to continue saying and doing whatever they please. Thank you for taking a stand.