I think we need a stock market crash!

[Heather MC]

I know that's crazy,
but I really feel like American capitalism has gotten out hand. The Value of the US dollar is in the tank. The housing Market went way to high, and gas is driving the cost of everything through the roof.

No one is going to lower the price of anything out of the goodness of their hearts. Corporation that are making crazy profits are not going to do a thing to change that.

And I think we need something to happen that flatlines everything and allows us to start all over again.

Maybe a Crash is a bit much but it has to be major.
And I don't see any employers willing to raise people's income's to keep pace with the raising inflation rate.
So once the Middle Income American Consumers stop buying, the crash will happen.

Beware of Tuesday's in October
the market loves to crash on Tuesdays in October.
If it happens I hope it happens before Obama takes office so he can't get blamed for it
Your thoughts?

[GreenEyedLefty]

1. Something has to give, that's for sure.

[slackmaster]

2. That would be fine with me as long as I can keep my job

:hi:

[Heather MC]

4. I read this book about the great depression

where these two brothers joined a traveling circus to make money
so that's what I plan to do!

I have been working on my clown act, and growing out my girl beard

and growing fangs to get paid al little extra in the freak show!

[xchrom]

3. you won't think so if it actually happens. nt

[Heather MC]

6. you're right, but I think it will happen

[On the Road]

5. Hey, It Worked Out Well the Last Time Around

[Heather MC]

8. Eventually

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Yeah, It Only Took A World War To Get Us Out Of It

~

[HereSince1628]

43. So, you want to destroy peoples retirement savings. Do you hate baby-boomers so much

Really? Maybe I missed the sarcasm icon.


But, I thought people were afraid that we boomers would cost too much as it is? Now you want to somehow destroy the only relief that younger people will have from what would become family burdens?

This wouldn't be good for the nation in the near or moderately long term. It would cripple families for the next 25 years.

[On the Road]

44. I Don't Like Using the Dripping Sarcasm Icon

but if I were serious, why would I bring up the fact that a market crash led to the great depression?

I understand the impluse behind the original post. But in practice, a hard landing is generally a bad thing. Without quibbling about details, I applaud the efforts of Bernake and Paulsen to try to avoid a complete meltdown. It still might work.

[Arkansas Granny]

7. That would effectively wipe out a lot of retirement accounts that are invested

in the stock market. Remember the Enron employees?

[Heather MC]

14. I remember I know a few people who have had to suffer through that

but if gas keeps going up, I think it may be inevitable
a lot of people will get to the point where Food and Gas is all they can afford

Look I grew up Poor, and my mother use to struggle with having to spend the 5 bucks it took to put in her tank once a week. Now it's 5 bucks a gallon. Meanwhile Minum Wage has barely moved since 90's. In my home town a "good paying job" is $15.00 and Hour that's about 30,000 before taxes.

My mother raised 4 kids on 22,000 a year. and her job was considered a "good Job"
I can't image how anyone can do that now adays

[AngryAmish]

9. This is just about the stupidest thing I have heard around here in a while

If everything "flatlines" who do you think will be hurt? People who have assets or those with few assets? If businesses fail who is going to grow, transport and sell us food? How well will subsidence farming work on the West Side of Chicago? What about when there is no money to pay for water and sewers? What would happen under your apocalyptic fantasy? Million of people starving, the sick and elderly dying off at a great rate, children with physical and mental growth stunted, etc. Think Somalia in the USA. Children with swollen bellies. Then your sick fantasy can come true.

People like you sicken me.

Civilization is a great thing -- about the best thing ever. It only works when people do the hard work of making it work. Hundred of millions of people working together to survive and thrive. Yet you want to declare Year Zero again. Disgusting.


on edit: Millions dead so you can go to clown college. Grow up.

[greguganus]

12. Thank you! I wanted to say the same thing below. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. I Don't Think She Thought It Through Very Well

Most of the rich were hurt and some were hurt greatly during the Great Depression but since they started out with so much more they still were better off than everybody else when it ended...

[Heather MC]

18. Why are you getting angry

What do you think we are headed to?
I think it's horrible but unless we get less greedy it will happen
I am not suggesting a big bad one like 1929
and I seriously doubt it would have the same effect as 29. in 1929 they didn't have nearly as many people investing in the market as they do today.

but don't be blind, something's got to give, when we get to 5 or 6 bucks a gallon of gas, I think our economy is far to fragile to handle the strain
you may not like what I said or think, but that will not make the fact that it could happen go away.

[lukasahero]

20. Has it not occurred to you that maybe you wished ill-will to some posters here?

"Why are you getting angry?" Maybe the poster has money in the market (i.e. - retirement savings in a 401k) that you just wished away? My guess is you do not. It's easy to wish for something to happen to "others" without considering that some of those "others" might actually be the good guys.

[Heather MC]

24. I don't wish it, I just think it's coming

I am apart of this just like everyone else, my kids college funds, my retirement plans, I am invested. but I don't see how else we are going to get out of this mess

I am not saying another great depression the crash of 1986 was worse than 1929 but more people were invested in the market, so it rebounded faster.

If our government can't figure out how to get the price of gas down, there will be a crash once people stop spending their money on anything but nessities, food, gas, housing.

And I don't think the Wealthy 1% really care about the people who are struggling

[lukasahero]

26. The top 1% will not be affected as severely as you think

The middle class will disappear but the market is different now so that the top 1% can protect their money in ways that will lessen the impact of a crash (offshore accounts, physical assets, hedging against the dollar...)

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt now that you're saying you didn't mean you wanted it but just that it was coming. If you meant to say you think it's coming, next time say that. There is a substantial difference between saying we "need" something to happen and you think something is going to happen.

FTR, I'm glad you're not running for office and I hope those who are have better ideas than you do on how to turn this economy around.

[Heather MC]

34. so how do we turn it around?

I could never run for office, I say what I think, and i don't lie.
And I think a crash will happen, October is usually the month for it
so beware. I don't think we will get to Great depression range, there are way to many people investing in the market

I do have a radical Idea of backing the US Dollar with more that jsut our Country, like the way the Euro is backed by 17 countries. I just don't know which Countries we can share our Currency with. Also I think Trucking companies that transport food should be given gas vouchers to lower the price of gas back down to where they had projected for their operating budget for the year. To hopefully drive food prices down.

But I do know when the Euro was created it was designed to over take the Dollar, and now that, that has happened people are shocked. Just like they will be shocked when a crash happens
This could have been prevented but we got a dumb war loving president, who only cared about taking the control of oil from the middle eastern Governments.

If we had developed technology for electric cars in 1996
Or if the guy who invented Hydro Cars wasn't mudered in the 70's
and Gas Cars didn't beat out electric cars in the early 1900's
maybe we wouldn't be in this fix. but we are, There are great long term solution that people have proposed. but for the immediate solutions, what can be done?
What can turn it around?

[onenote]

35. No, you said you think it needs to happen.

That's not the same thing as saying you think its going to happen but hope it doesn't. Not even close.

[AngryAmish]

22. Primarily because you don't have the slightest idea of what you are advocating

You "feel" like there is going to be a depression. (May I also state that you "feel" like being a traveling clown(!) in a nation suffering a major economic depression is a fun thing to do, but that is neither here nor there.)

After sifting though your nonsense there is a kernel of truth in there -- the last two major recessions were preceded by oil shocks. It looks like we are in an oil shock right now.

As for our economy being fragile now -- that is not true in the least. We are much wealthier (aggregately and individually) that ever before.

[Heather MC]

45. Go read the book "The Roaring 2000's" by Harry S, Dent, Jr, he predicted

the boom would end between 2008-09
well the boom is over!
I believe Dubya's personal agenda caused the boom to end faster, but alot of what is happening was predicted years ago, this book was writting in 1996- 97
He is an incrediable economist that looked over the history of this country and made accurate predictions. You may hate what I say, but it doesn't change what "may" happen sooner rather than later

[greguganus]

11. The ones that would hurt the most are the middle income consumers

who have 401K accounts with their work places and wouldn't be able to recoup easily from a crash. The upper class will still be rich, and the poor lower class will still be poor.

[Eurobabe]

13. Yeah the middle class will be fried crispy

some of us are singed around the edges already!

[Heather MC]

23. Maybe the words "need a crash" are overstated

I should have said we will crash

Middle Income is being stretched to the limit, what happens to this country, when they can't be counted on to keep buying, new cars, CD's, movie tickets, airline tickets, trips around the world?

What happens if when the majority have to cut back to gas, food, housing, only?

And not to mention all the millions of people who were stretched to limit before gas went up. All the people who like to live pretty and keep their credit cardsmaxed out. it's really sad and painful to watch and see it happen. But what can be done?

I think a crash is coming, not to the scale of 1929, and actully the crash of 1986 was worse than 1929, it's just more people were investing in the market at the time so the effects where not as bad.

[Eurobabe]

38. Yeah I wouldn't wish for a crash

I worry about my mom, with what little 401K she has left. :cry:

[Heather MC]

41. Historically after a great period of economic growth comes a down turn

remember the roaring 20ies! and then the crash of 1929
the spike of growth in the 80's then the crash of 86

well were are coming off a period of great growth in this country
the market goes up, the market goes down. They may not want to call it, for fear of people over reacting, but the writing is on the wall it's going down.

I don't want this, I have 95 year old grandmother they doesn't have the time to recover from a crash. I want to make sure my 6 and 2 year old can go to college with no stress strain or struggle.

And i don't want my money to go away, but I am concerned with what will happen after the the quarterly summer numbers come out, with they show growth, or a decline?

I don't think the market will crash to 1929 levels, but I think it will go down drastically.

[greguganus]

15. There are stops put into the stock market system now to keep it from going too low.

Without looking up the actual numbers, trading stops after a significant drop in a certain amount of time.

[screembloodymurder]

17. We'd lose control of every major publicly held company in the US

and the future of labor would be destroyed. Is that really what you want?

[Heather MC]

19. We already are losing control

Of course it's not what I want, but it's what I think will happen
and maybe the only thing that will help in the long run
you can't keep filling a balloon with air and expect it not to burst!

The entire world relys on Americans to spend money, well soon Middle America will only be buying food and gas, what do you think will happen to our Economy once a majority of people stop spending their money on anything but nessities?

[no_hypocrisy]

21. Here's the problem: Severe challenges to a decent life.

1. I want to continue working.
2. I want affordable housing.
3. I want to afford a healthy diet.
4. I don't want anarchy as a result of a multitude of people thrown on their collective asses.
5. I don't want fascist governmental controls to "restore order" (see#4).

[Heather MC]

27. what's the solution? if prices keep going up, but incomes do not?

What is going to happen? How can it be fixed? Isn't a crash inevitable?

[GreenEyedLefty]

25. I don't think the OP wants people to die, or for an apocalypse

But surely folks, especially in forum like this one, can relate to the desire for some kind of clean slate, to a time where the playing field between the haves and the have nots is a bit more level? Lawd knows I do... but I don't want anyone to die, I'd just want everyone to have equal access to at least the basics in life.

[Heather MC]

29. Of course I don'twant death!, that's sick

I just want fairness, something that is liveable, they way things are going right now, it's just ugly and scary and seemingly unfixable without a crash.

Look the top 30 companies that are on the Dow and all the massive corporations, are not going to lower the prices out of the goodness of their heart. Unfortunately Unless people's incomes start going up to match the rapid raise of inflation. Our system will be deflated, quickly

[onenote]

37. "rapid raise of inflation"? Hardly.

You should check the historical record before making such assertions. Yes, the economy is not good. Yes, gas prices are spiraling upwards (although US prices still are lower than those in many other parts of the world).

But inflation, even with the most recent spike, is nowhere near the levels it has been at times in the past.

From 1997- 2007, the highest annual inflation rate was 3.39 and the lowest 1.55. So far this year its averaging around 4 percent.

From 1986 - 1996, the range was 1.91 to 5.39

From 1975 - 1985, the range was 3.55 to 13.58 (with three double digit years)

From 1964 - 1974, the range was 1.28 to 11.03.

[Heather MC]

40. There is one major difference from the past

Things didn't cost so much
to rent a 1 bedroom apartment in a decent neighborhood in my city cost between 1,700 to 2,000 bucks
as the mortgages went up, rent went up as well because people no longer had the choice of buying a house is cheaper than renting.

in the 60's 70's and 80's you could get a decent house for 50,000 or less depending on where you lived. Now you can't get a shack for less than 100K

and gas was not on it's way to $6.00 bucks a gallon.

and as far as other countries paying more for gas, very true, but from what I understand, they don't commute to work the way we do here in america. they may pay more at the pump than us, but for the most part it goes further. and they dont't drive the big gas guzzeling suv's like americans to do.

And again, every thing is on the rise except people's incomes. The average raise is 3%
3% doesn't keep up with the growth of inflation.

Obama says all the time people on Average are making $1000.00 less than they were a year ago.
It will get worse before it get's better. and even if it levels off and stays the same
that's no good either

[onenote]

46. actually, the situation is not significantly different from the past

For example, from 1973 to 1976, median household income dropped for virtually every income group. The median level dropped by around 4 percent. During that same period, inflation was averaging nearly 8 percent. Incomes recovered from 1976 to 1979, with the median household income up by 6.8 percent during that period. Inflation however was still averaging over. 7.75%

There was a further drop in household income between 1979 and 1982, with the median household income in 1982 actually below the 1973 level. But inflation was still a positive number during that period -- sometimes a very large positive number.

The situation today is not good and it needs to be addressed, but suggesting that we need a "crash" to address it is ridiculous.

[Heather MC]

47. Some have agreed with me here most have not

So how do we address it without a crash.
How does it get fixed?

[crankychatter]

28. despite FDRs efforts it took WW2 to pull us out of the Depression

we now have a war linked economy

it's a lot different now I know and I'm no pro, so take it with a grain

we're dependent on slave labor for affordable goods... one could argue we have BECOME slave labor, given the cost of living

but I think it won't fail completely while we're at war

when it happens now it will be global

I haven't a clue how we'd get out of it, other than going Ron Paul on their asses

I sometimes wonder if "their" idea of resource management is genocide

I think neocons quietly believe that genocide is a function of natural selection

[rucky]

30. That's an awful thought.

All the pensions, IRA's and 401K's of people who've worked all their lives. We'll have to take care of them, and the corporations won't, so a crash doesn't really solve anything. It would just mobilize Congress into creating some new corporate welfare.

I wish I knew what the solutions were, though.

[Heather MC]

36. I hope I am wrong

but I when I worked in financial services, I was begging some of my clients not to get interest only loans, to read the fine print with a lawyer. They only cared about that low monthly payment.

A lot of real estate agents were telling people the market would keep going up nothing to worry about. When I would tell them the market can't sustain this growth, the prices will come down. they would argue with me.

So now here we are about to face $6.00 a gallon gas. In the Area I live in Millions of people bought big houses with interest only loans 25 miles from their jobs. and then bought huge SUV's, now the Interest only phase is up on their loans, their SUV's cost almost another mortgage to keep gassed up, and the montly payments have going up 20 50% if not more.

What happens to these people when gas hits $6.00 a gallon. they stop spending. What happens to the economy when people stop spending?

[high density]

31. Start all over again? That helps us how?

The country is certainly in bad shape at the moment, but it's not bad enough to press the reset switch. That's like your car getting a flat tire and you replace the car instead of the tire.

[Heather MC]

39. if the tire cost $4,000 to replace

I'd get a new car.
It's more than a flat tire

Gas is higher than it's every been in the history of the is country
so are mortgages (for middle to low income americans)
and food, Milk is $7.00 bucks in some stores in my area

the simple solution is to lower prices, but let's face it big corporations are not going to lower prices out of the goodness of their hearts, they don't have hearts, they have pockets really deep pockets.

I think this summer will be a major disappointment for the market, because people are not going to spend on trips, and airfare, and summer vacations like they normally do, and when the quarterly reports come out about the summer numbers. Boom crash time right around October,
I pray I am wrong, lord knows I want to be, I don't believe it will be 1929 ranges because we have so many more people in the market, but it will not be good.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

32. Maybe we need a nuclear war to let us know how awful war is!

Sorry but I don't buy you.

[kentuck]

33. Then, where would all those petro dollars go ??

They're not putting that money in the mattress. It's going into the market. Which goes to show, what's good for Wall St is not necessarily good for Main St.

[goldcanyonaz]

42. What? Ever heard of the great depression?