If you love the idea of Obama/Clark. . .STEAL MY SIG! STEAL MY SIG!

[wndycty]

I have been lobbying for this ticket forever. They compliment and balance each other so well. A ton in common and they balance each other so well.

[bullimiami]

1. i thought from the beginning that hillary would choose clark if she was nominated.

i think he would benefit the obama ticket as well.
he brings military and campaign experience and is well liked and respected.

[wndycty]

2. And from a unifying the party stand point the fact that Clark was a Hillary loyalist. . .

. . .my help heal some wounds.

[PoliticalAmazon]

42. Clark being a Hillary loyalist, supporting her though her worst political tactics...

also indicates there is a risk in letting him get too close to Obama. Clark may turn out to be a willing conduit to the Clintons, letting him know Obama's strategy for his adminitration and reelection.

I don't think we can trust Clark, and not for just his loyal support for Hillary.

For other reasons, visit my DU journal.

[Tinksrival]

64. Are you still pushing your smears?

I think your jealous. But under all that hot air you really luv him!

It's OK to love a General! If it's a smart, kind, progressive, democrat General Smackdown!!



***********************************

~~~~~~

***********************************

[PoliticalAmazon]

67. Are you still using ad homineum attacks instead of addressing my statements?...

Address my statements, please.

When you sink to ad homineum attacks, you are admitting to the world that you are impotent to address the statements I have made.

[Tinksrival]

102. homina, homina, homina

Lighten up dude. This stuff has been trotted out over and over. It's pathetic.

[KittyWampus]

5. He's also conversant in Economics!

[Clark2008]

10. Well he taught it at West Point

I'd hope he's conversant in it.

:)

[elleng]

22. More than merely 'conversant,'

he TAUGHT it a West Point.

[faithfulcitizen]

55. Has a M.S. degree in it too.

[CherokeeDem]

3. My Dream Ticket

Gen. Clark kicked butt this morning on Morning Joe...took Mike Barnacle down for the count. I agree, I don't see any downside to this ticket. Besides as a strong Hillary supporter, he may be able to bring the male and female Hillary supporters to the Obama campaign. A win win for me. Love this sig line...great pictures. Thanks.

[Clark2008]

4. I already did that

But, I haven't had time to add it to my own.

:)

[shifting_sands]

6. Wes Clark

I would take almost anyone but Wes Clark. He is and has been such a tool for anyone who buys him. Deliver us from that.

[elleng]

27. You are totally uninformed

about General Clark. Try these:

http://securingamerica.com/about

http://securingamerica.com/highlights

http://securingamerica.com/vision

[PoliticalAmazon]

48. Groovy. References to Wes Clark's website.....

With that kind of logic, we should all be loyal Bush supporters because the websites that schill for him say he is such a peachy guy.

[elleng]

100. Info on Wes Clark's website

provides substantive information about his biography, achievements, and goals.

For those not interested in informing themselves, like the media and those who rely on it, we can thank you for the state of the world today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=235x7786

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[faithfulcitizen]

59. He supported Hillary because she is a friend. He supports Obama because he's a good Democrat.

:shrug: He's been working his butt off for Dem's for four years now and served in the Clinton administration. He's not the first democrat to praise a republican.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[faithfulcitizen]

70. Frankly, I'm not sure what side you're on.

[Tom Rinaldo]

78. Enough. THIS is EXACTLY what sucked about the old GD-Primaries Forum

It is very hard to believe that you are not willfully failing to comprehend what you claim to report on. This is the type of rot that has infected Democratic Underground for far too long, so I am calling your bluff in front of everyone who is reading this thread, and you can call mine too. We can let DU members see for themselves who is attempting to have a real discussion and who just wants to push negative spin about Democrats.

Your post subject line states:

"You seek to diminish Clark's praise of "a republican." He praised KARL ROVE..."

Based on recent discussions on Democratic Underground, I assume you mean the words Wes Clark used in the following TV appearance, which I am linking to the video of below. If you think Wes Clark "praised" Karl Rove on some other occaision, than let's see it. Put up or shut up.

Here is the actual video. Everyone look for themselves. In my mind you are spinning like a top when you boil down Clark saying something like this about Karl Rove...

"He's a pretty shrewd analyst, a lot of us don't like what he did in the White House and some of us think some of it may have been illegal, but give the devil his due"

...into "praising a Republican". In this interview Clark gladly conceded that Rove has his own political agenda, that Super Delegates need to read through everyone's spin, Rove's included. At one point Dan Abrams actually says "It sounds like General Clark is making a more rational argument than the Clinton campaign".

It's time for us, in this new forum, to get beyond everyone's negative spin about Democrats also. Maybe I'm the one who is spinning now for Clark. I am willing to let people decided for themselves who is distorting the debate:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24865023#24865023

[girl gone mad]

80. Jeffrey Dahmer???

Yeah, no hyperbole there. :eyes:

Seriously, wtf is wrong with you? I would suggest you go see a shrink, because your grasp on reality is very weak.

[roguevalley]

85. facts. unless attacks are all you have.

[renate]

7. thanks!

[wndycty]

9. You are welcome

:kick:

[toadzilla]

8. ha! i saved that for stealing purposes before I even saw this thread!

[thewiseguy]

11. Its a bad idea. He would bring very little to the ticket.

[cliffordu]

12. And you know this how??

[thewiseguy]

13. What does Clark bring to this ticket?

As a presidential candidate he has failed twice now. How will he help Obama?

[wndycty]

16. Foreign policy experience, executive experience. . .

As the former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO he was consider to be a head of state. Anytime you can put a "head of state" on the ticket that is an unbelievable asset.

[thewiseguy]

17. Yea we all saw how much the electorate bought his executive experience

He ran for president twice...how good did he do?

[wndycty]

18. He only ran once and his mistake was not contesting Iowa. . .

. . .he won in Oklahoma but we all know that once Kerry won Iowa the race was over. You can try to talk him down all you want but thems the facts.

Running in the #2 spot is different and his campaign experience is an asset. You ignore the fact that he has been very effective in helping House and Senate Dems get elected.

[thewiseguy]

19. We have better assets. I will be more happy with Hillary on the ticket.

[wndycty]

20. Hillary has nothing to offer. No executive experience, Clark has much better foreign policy . . .

. . . experience.

[thewiseguy]

23. No thank you. 18 million people voted for her.

[wndycty]

30. And I significant number of those 18 million will support Obama w/o Hillary. . .

. . .let's not try to make divisions and replay the primaries. One of the reasons why Clark is an attractive VP candidate is because he is a Clinton loyalist which might address some of that "18 million" argument you want to make.

[roguevalley]

87. and 95% of those have moved on. get over it.

[cliffordu]

26. BWAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAH! Nice. Great humor!

[roguevalley]

86. are you one of those tools that are coming here, racking up a 1000

posts in the lounge and then sliming every thread you can? sounds like it.

[PoliticalAmazon]

50. And someone who will flip his values and redefine himself....

with a slight shift of the political breeze.

He is without integrity and ethics. If you criticize McCain for his flipping, you are hypocritical if you don't criticize Clark for the same thing.

Old Chinese saying: "He is a banner that blows with any breeze." That defines Clark exactly...you can trust him as long as the breeze doesn't change dirction.

[lukasahero]

57. Your vitriol for a solid Dem who has worked hard for this party

is stunning.

[PoliticalAmazon]

61. Your ad hominem attack is noted. Can you not address the statements I've made?....

"Solid Democrat," my ass. He became a Democrat when he wanted to use the Party to further his career by running in the 2004 Dem primary. Prior to that he was a fawning sycophant for the Bushes.

He has been a solid Clinton ally for YEARS. Putting him into a position where he can pass on Obama's strategies, both for his adminitration and his reelection campaign, would be risking the Clintons undermining Obama's adminstration AND his chances for reelection.

Clark has little integrity or ethics. He supported Hillary when she bigot-pandered, and when she used assassination as a campaign tool. He was SILENT when she said she would obiterate Iran, a country of over 65million people!

Now he has, once again, flipped and become a vocal Obama supporter.

This guy is FLAKE-EEE. He is not trustworthy or dependable.

Also, here's a clue: "vitriol" is not making legitimate criticisms of another person. If you don't like Clark being called untrustworthy and undependable, then perhaps you should approach HIM about his reinventions of himself and his values with every little shift in the breeze.

[Clark2008]

75. Wow... you don't know much, do you?

Clark was an independent because he was in the military and wanted to hold no allegience. He was NEVER a Bush sycoophant. He spoke ONCE to a group of assembled Republicans and then went across town the following week and gave a similar speech to the Democrats.

Yes, he admitted to voting for Reagan, but then came on-board the Dem side when Bill Clinton ran and has voted Dem ever since. FWIW, he never had to publically state that he once supported Reagan (apparently, a lot of Democrats did, which is why he won), but he wanted to "come clean."

He has NOT been a solid Clinton ally. He merely served as NATO Allied Supreme Commander under Bill Clinton. He doesn't break bread with them and was not chummy with them in the least. He supported Hillary, but so what? That's what primaries are for. If you get your widdle-biddy fweewings hurt over that, then politics ain't the game for you.

I think we can figure out who the uniformed FLAKE is here, and it's not Wes Clark.

Oh - and I don't need to approach him about YOUR accusations. He has been steadfast in his opinions regarding the Iraqi War, in his support of Democrats nationwide and in his quest to ensure that we live in a better place. I think the problem here is YOUR abuse of the facts.

[PoliticalAmazon]

94. Clark is a flipper. Your excuses for him are touching, but don't help his history....

(http://www.laweekly.com)
The Chameleon Candidate: Wesley Clark, Democrat or Republican?
D. Ireland, LA Weekly, 9/26 - 10/3/2003

The putative new Great White (Male) Hope of the Democratic Party, General Wesley Clark, came of age politically when he was seduced by Richard Nixon, for whom he cast his first presidential vote. He later voted for Ronald Reagan (twice), and for Bush père. As recently as two years ago, Clark was appearing at Republican fund-raisers. In Arkansas, at the Pulaski County Republican Committee dinner on May 12, 2001, Clark said “that American involvement abroad helps prevent war and spreads the ideals of the United States.”

Just two weeks later, U.S. News and World Report said, “Insiders say Clark, who is a consultant for Stephens Group in Little Rock, is preparing a political run as a Republican. Less clear: what office he’d campaign for. At a recent Republican fund-raiser, he heralded Ronald Reagan’s Cold War actions and George Bush’s foreign policy. He also talked glowingly of current President Bush’s national security team. Absent from the praise list — his former boss, ex–Commander in Chief Bill Clinton.”

It’s only been a month since Clark declared that he was a Democrat, although he went out of his way to tell CNN when he did that both parties have good ideas. However, he’s never explained those appetizing GOP ideas. Nor has he ever said in public what made him become a Democrat after a lifelong history of Republican affinities, which makes his conversion sound more like opportunism than principle. . . .

[Clark2008]

96. And I don't let the media make my decisions.

Hell, dear, for 10 years I WAS the media.

Just because LA Weekly slams a good man, doesn't mean they're either accurate or have the best interests of this country at hand.

BTW, all of this was debunked in 2004. Maybe you need to take a trip down history lane in the DU archives.

[roguevalley]

89. facts. all you have is insults and your own UNINFORMED opinions.

you are obviously a troll.

[cliffordu]

62. Links 'n proof, please.....

[roguevalley]

88. you put no facts on the table. nothing. you are trolling. go away.

[Clark2008]

25. Twice?

He didn't run in 2008. He only ran in 2004.

[wndycty]

29. Exactly

:kick:

[Sparkly]

34. "As a presidential candidate he has failed twice now." I see you're not paying attention.

If you aren't paying enough attention to him to know how many times he's run for president, you've kind of blown any credibility for an informed opinion of him.

[girl gone mad]

81. Failed twice?

He only ran once and he did pretty well, all things considered.

[quantass]

14. Love the Sig!

[Bad Thoughts]

15. It would be the leanest, most fit ticket ever. eom.

[faithfulcitizen]

54. hey bad thoughts, you just gave me bad thoughts. lol

[Tinksrival]

68. How bout this sig line

.... :spank: ....

[faithfulcitizen]

73. Oh, no you didn't!!! :)

:spray: Might be one way to bring in Hillary supporters! :rofl:

[elleng]

21. Wes on Morning Joe today,

thouroughly discusses McCain's lack of relevant experience. This is IT!

http://www.texasforclark.com/WPvideo/MSNBC_080613.mov

[DefenseLawyer]

24. Clark is great on paper, TERRIBLE on the stump.

Like the hiring a clown for the kids' birthday party, it sounds like a great idea but when he gets there he's just plain creepy.

[Clark2008]

28. You need to watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpMV2G3TajA

Or this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/mmedia/politics/072904-17v.htm

He is absolutely NOT terrible on the stump. The media told you he was, but when you hear him, he's absolutely NOT.

[DefenseLawyer]

31. Right, I only know what the media tells me.

Hell I barely make it through the day without the help of the media, and you, of course. Look, I know you Clark lovers are a loyal bunch. That's fine. He's your guy. I got it. Unlike you, I won't imply that you are some lemming who has been duped by Big Brother. I have heard the general countless times. I don't share your view. Sorry.

[Clark2008]

37. It's not a matter of sharing my view.

I just don't understand this meme that he's terrible on the stump. Every time I've heard him speak, he rocks the room.

Maybe one time he was off his game and it produced this meme.

[wndycty]

40. Of the following DEM/GOP running mates only one (Edwards) was exceptional on the stump

Bentsen
Bush
Cheney
Edwards
Ferraro
Gore
Kemp
Lieberman
Mondale
Quayle

[DefenseLawyer]

63. "It's not a matter of sharing my view"

"I love Wes Clark, I think he 'rocks the room' and anyone who doesn't agree is wrong". I'm just a caveman, but that seems to me to be ENTIRELY a matter of sharing your view.

[Clark2008]

76. Not hardly

I just can't see how you think he's boring.

Of course, I think John Edwards is a phony with a put-on accent and says the same thing over and over again. I never got what anyone saw in him.

[DefenseLawyer]

79. I don't think he is boring, I think he is kinda creepy

It's just my personal view, that is how he comes across to me. I respect him, I think he is a good man, he is smart and well qualified, he just rubs me the wrong way. Something about his speaking style and his demeanor. Much the same way that Edwards rubs you the wrong way. I also like Remington more than Picasso and The Band more than the Beatles. Don't take it personally.

[roguevalley]

91. my boy was his in Bosnia and he met clark. he would walk across

broken glass for him, he is so good. so would I.

[Clark2008]

97. I don't.

I just think your tastes make mine look good. :hi:

[elleng]

32. Wes was the MOST REQUESTED surrogate

for Dems running in 2006.

Defense Lawyer? REALLY? You have A LOT TO LEARN!

[DefenseLawyer]

33. I do! I have tons to learn. I seriously barely make it from day to day.

Thank god I have Wesley Clark's loyal followers to help he get my mind right. Obviously I am the only one who it put off by the general's delivery, which is why he was elected in a landslide in 2004 and again in 2008.

[wndycty]

36. He didn't run in 2008

Besides as a VP he is there to balance the ticket, not to be the most dynamic. We all know that Mondale, Bush I, Qualyle, Gore and Cheney were all Mr. Personality.

[DefenseLawyer]

49. I know he didn't run in 2008

I am not sure why, given that I am obviously the only person is America who doesn't think he is the greatest candidate ever.

[wndycty]

52. Actually we don't think he is the greatest candidate ever, but he sure is a damn good leader. . .

. . .who'd would have made a good president and who could make an excellent running mate to someone who could be the greatest candidate ever. ;)

[Tom Rinaldo]

38. Here; watch his delivery this morning

Notice how he takes apart McCain. Notice how the talking heads try to gang up on Clark, and how they fail:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/25139036#25139036

[Sparkly]

39. I think he's really honed those skills.

He was so good at taking on the asshats at Faux -- he can handle anything now.

[wndycty]

41. I put it on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5bYzL2y7xQ

[goclark]

71. He left Mika holding her arms to protect herself

He chewed her up and spit her Out! :rofl:

I loved the way he did not let them define his answers.

I have met Wesley Clark and I was impressed by his intellectual abilities and calm manner.

He was not on the short list for Obama ~ right?

[faithfulcitizen]

74. Strange thing is, it's the MSNBC pundits pushing for him the most for VP.

I've met him 4 times, and he's very funny too!

[elleng]

43. Your ignorance continues to show.

He did not run in 2008, and he was blacked out by the media in 2004, even after he won Oklahoma, and came in 2d and 3d in more states than other candidates.

Its up to YOU to get your 'mind' right; we will do what we can to provide you (and others) with FACTS.

[faithfulcitizen]

53. lol- sorry about some of the responses you're getting. I respect your opinion.

I think the bad campaigner wrap comes from his debate performances (much like Obama) I think he got better with time. Also, THE reason, in my opinion, that after he jumped in the race and immediately had a commanding 20% lead and LOST IT was when he said if he were serving in the senate he probably would have voted for the IWR too. This coming from the "anti-war" general was a huge gaffe he made on a plane with the press corps, was something he never recovered from. So, I respect your opinion and know where you are coming from, but man, on the stump he was amazing.

[Clark2008]

77. Actually, he didn't say that

He was speaking of the Levin Amendment, but Adam Nagourney couldn't take the time to get his facts straight.

So, yes, it was the media, not Clark. Clark could have been more clear, but he hadn't changed his mind.

[faithfulcitizen]

99. I agree. He was against it from the beginning, no doubt. But I think that moment on the plane sank

the campaign, sank us.

[fifthoffive]

60. So now he needed to be elected

to something even when he wasn't running to be qualified to be the veep candidate?

[roguevalley]

92. you are just trolling now. you made your point. who cares?

[Sparkly]

35. Wrong.

He did as well as anyone else who ran against John Kerry. Before Iowa, he'd raised more money than anybody but Howard Dean, and raised it faster. He was placing first and second in many early states -- what changed that was the momentum coming out of Iowa, where he didn't campaign because of his late entrance.

Thanks for playing.

[DefenseLawyer]

44. You can spin it however you like.

I appreciate the fierce loyalty that your little group of diehard Clark supporters possess. However, I have no idea what you are referring to about Clark "placing first and second in many early states". Clark won Okalhoma. Clark placed second in Arizona and North Dakota. He placed first or second in no other contests, much less "many early primary states. Your claim that Claim lost because he was a victim of circumstance or timing is simply not supported by the facts. Feel free to love Clark, I think he is a good man. But I am not the only one, obviously, who thinks he is a terrible campaigner, as is evidenced by his failure to garner much support at all beyond folks like you.

[Sparkly]

51. "folks like you"

:eyes:

It's not spin -- these are facts. Iowa changed everything, for all the candidates. But even after Iowa, as you point out, Clark did as well as anyone, or better; so your opinion that "he is a terrible campaigner" is not based on any facts at all. And you say I'm spinning?!

In addition, he campaigned vigorously in 2004 and 2006, for many candidates. There's a reason they wanted him on the campaign trail, and it wasn't because "he is a terrible campaigner."

You're obviously trying to make this about irrational "diehard Clark supporters" ("your little group") and dismiss his support as some kind of fan club. But here's a hint: it's not working.

[roguevalley]

93. folks like us. my freeper brothers would vote for Obama if he was

the VP, they love him so much. He is smart, military and dem. He appeals across the board. I don't care if you want to minimize the support he has here, doesn't matter. he is always in the top five of every list that matters.

[faithfulcitizen]

47. I couldn't disagree more. I've seen him in person twice- and he nails it!

If the VP should be an attack dog- he's a pit bill.

[roguevalley]

90. you haven't been paying attention. he is the most requested person

in the party to come and help dems, he is awesome on the stump. He's learned ENORMOUSLY over the past few years and he's a tremendous resource. you need to catch up.

[faithfulcitizen]

45. okay, I'm not very tech savy... how do I do that?

:blush:

[rch35]

56. could you tell me how to steal your sig please?

:)

[wndycty]

58. I think you can do a right click on it. . .do any DU tech heads know?

:kick:

[27inCali]

65. Clark definately has attack dog mode down

boy was he just dressing down McCain on his actually leadership experience in foreign affairs and military. wew!

between him, John Kerry and Joe Biden hacking away at McCain, man are they taken the gloves off and showing some fight.

Now where's Chris Dodd and Bill Richardson? Shouldn't they be ripping away too?

[AmericanUnity]

69. PERFECT TEAM !!

[depakid]

72. I would put that bumper sticker on my car

[rocktivity]

82. You can steal this, too

Once I sobered up from celebrating the '06 elections, I made this:



Then when Clark dropped out:



:headbang:
rocknation

[HowHasItComeToThis]

83. YOU MEAN WE NEED ADULTS IN POWER????????????????????

[riona]

84. Enough with the feather flapping

He's a good man. Nobody will ask us anyway.

[bain_sidhe]

95. sig lines turned off..

what's it say?

[lukasahero]

98. Basically Obama/Clark 2008

But it's got great pics of both of them. It's a nice banner if you want Clark as VP.

[Bensthename]

101. Definitely Obamas best choice for VP

[malik flavors]

103. Definitely a 21st Century looking ticket. Very hip, and a strong pairing as well.