Why not call on Max Cleland to stand up to the press and their defense of mccain?

[rebel with a cause]

Wesley Clark did a good job of standing up to the people on Morning Joe this morning as he declared that mccain is not presidental material. But they again insisted that no one should say anything negative about mccain because he was a war hero and disabled from being held in Hanoi Hilton. Clark did not let them deter him, even when they tried to turn his attack on to Obama. He told them that Obama was not running on his national security ability, and mccain was. My question is this where was this press when Max Cleland was getting attacked by the rupubs?

While Clark maybe good at standing up to the story that the press is selling about mccain and that he is qualified simply because he is a war hero, but they still throw his disability into the argument. And although Clark did an excellent job of pushing this argument to the side, maybe there is someone even better for this job. Maybe Max Cleland should come out to take on the mccain attack. Lets see them tell him that he can't say anything because ........Yeah, I think they would have no reason to give of why Max could not talk about mccain.

Max is a fierce campaigner. I met him here in 2004 when he was campaigning for Kerry. He knows Obama, he was traveling with him during that campaign barnstorming trip across/down Illinois. Perhaps this is one way to take away the defense the press has set up around mccain simply because he is a war hero and disabled. I'm not saying attack him because of these things, but don't let the press enable him because of it either. Being a prisioner of war might have made him a hero but it did not give him the experience or knowledge he now claims to have in national security.

[JimGinPA]

1. I'd Like To See Him Speak On That Too

K&R

[jasmine621]

2. Probabaly because Max does not really support Obama that much.

I would bet that Max has some reservations about Obama.

[DavidDvorkin]

3. Interesting. Is that opinion, or is it something on the record?

[uponit7771]

4. source? thx

[rebel with a cause]

5. I'd have to hear that from Max

he seemed fine with him in 2004. and I have not heard or seen him since, so I will wait for proof on that.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

9. Hillary? Is that you? LOL!! n/t

[goldcanyonaz]

14. LOL! Donate much? Why is your profile hidden?

[goldcanyonaz]

18. ,

[Binka]

11. Conjecture, Speculation & Bullshit

Par for the course from you. Not giving it up are you dear? Oh my that hate runs quite deep.

[blm]

33. You'd be WRONG. Max stands with Kerry on supporting Obama. They're both 100% in Obama's corner and

have been since before Kerry publicly endorsed last January. Max hasn't been more visible because of some health matters.

[rebel with a cause]

6. Just talked to Obama's campaign office and I am shaking.

I use to be able to email him from his site, but they took that down. I called several of his offices and by the time I got through to the one, was stressed out to the max and not in a great mood. (I now hate talking on the phone especially hard for me to call strangers) I finally got through to someone, don't know who because I could barely hear him. I started off by telling him that I was a long time supporter from Illinois and etc. Praised Clark for his appearence on Morning Joe, then told him what I thought about the press and their defense of mccain by using his service and his disability against anyone who critisizes him. Told about meeting Max when he campaigned with Barack and how I thought he would be a good one to speak out about mccain. Told him I was disabled and did not want people to enable me because of it, and that is why I don't agree with the press doing it now. I probably sounded like a raving lunatic, but I did it. Now it will take me a day or two to convince myself that I am not an idiot and that it was okay for me to do this.

[eleny]

7. It was the right thing to do

Of that I'm sure.

It can be unnerving speaking to campaigns and legislative offices. But I've found that people do appreciate our calls when they're supportive and have good ideas. They can't think of everything. Sometimes we need to help.

When I see Max Cleland speaking on behalf of Obama, I'm going to think of you. :thumbsup:

K&R!

[rebel with a cause]

8. Thanks.

I would sure feel proud if he did. The buttons would pop off my shirt (an old saying) if that day arrived. ;)

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

10. I'm proud of you and I'm proud of my former senator from GA!! I hope he speaks out, too...

Last I heard, he was battling mental illness, which is not surprising. Dealing with 8 years of lies, destruction, death... :(

[napi21]

15. I've heard that too. PTSD. Someone had asked him about running

against Chambliss I think, and he said he didn't feel he was up to it. I'm so sorry. I really like Max, and I hope he's getting help to recover.

[rebel with a cause]

23. I am sorry to hear that

I wish him well. He was very friendly when I met him. I took his picture with one of Barack's people, but my daughter helped me send it to the guy and then deleted it. I was mortified. She had cropped me out of Barack's picture, she could have cropped the guy out of that one also.

[blm]

34. Many Dems forget that Cleland and other vets TRIED to get full media coverage to counter swifts

but media was deliberately not allowing the counters to get significant coverage while they went wall to wall for the swifts for months.

Then McAuliffe and his ilk spread the lie that Kerry campaign let the swifts go unanswered and the media would say the swifts caused Kerry to lose - that spin which effectively covered up rampant election fraud and an incompetent DNC party infrastructure, added stress to those vets who WERE out there on the frontline of that battle against the swifts and they were being treated as the failures in that battle.

These were GREAT men and vets who went through a lot over the years, and they saw themselves and the man they knew led them and protected their backs treated as the weak links by campaign strategists eager to deflect blame from the party bignames.

A number of them went through recurrences of their PTSD after the election, and it happens to be the biggest reason Kerry decided against another run and put his national political network behind Obama - - much earlier than many realize.

[rebel with a cause]

36. Amen!!!!

Thank you for sharing this.

[babylonsister]

12. You did great, rebel! It's never bad to voice your opinion, especially

when you're trying to help. :thumbsup: And you're NOT an idiot! :hug:

[rebel with a cause]

24. I feel like one now that I hear that Max is ill.

I should have waited and got others opinion before I called. Oh well, I'll not do that again. :blush:

[blm]

37. actually, I've held my tongue on this issue for a long time, out of privacy concerns

for those Band Of Brothers affected at the time. They went through a bad few years thanks to Dem STRATEGIST backlash that put all the blame on the one part of the campaign that those men were part of. Did the vets get the microphones and TV cameras to tell their side of how media treated them and downplayed their efforts and even DENIED them airtime? No. But Dems like McAuliffe and Carville and Begala and Lanny Davis got all the airtime they needed to blame it all on the so-called 'success' of the swiftliars.

Great men, great vets with great hearts and great courage were scapegoated as the failures for their efforts and watched Kerry get torn down nearly every day for the last few years by those who controlled the airtime.

I won't say who all had their PTSD triggered, but it was a few more than Max, and they weren't even political creatures - just a band of brothers looking out for the man who always got THEIR backs.

[bigbrother05]

39. You did well, exactly the sort of feedback that will make Obama stronger.

Real people speaking honestly from their hearts to our leaders is the only way we'll get our country back. We should all do as you did when we have something so strong to add.

[Gold Metal Flake]

13. I would not call on Sen. Cleland for anything.

Reason: He suffers from PTSD, as I have read. He will do what he can, but I would not call on him to do more because of the stress of his condition. He's a good guy. I feel for him. Know what I mean? Asking him to take on the media, a huge, billion-dollar corporate machine run by sociopaths and peopled by greedy, souless materialists by himself is asking too much. We have to get the Obama admin into place then beat the shit out of IT to force media reforms. JMO. I've never met the man as you have, and I envy you.

[rebel with a cause]

22. I am sorry to hear about Max.

I wish I had known that today because I would never ask anyone battling this illness to do anything that would hurt them. I have PTSD only slightly, well not near as bad as what people coming back from war have it, and I know that I cannot do what I once did. Sorry I said anything about it.

[Gold Metal Flake]

27. I don't mean to blunt your passion.

I only suggest that Sen. Cleland can only do what he can do. A new generation must come forth and carry the battle. I can tell you that I am not made of as hard of stuff as those who came before. But the times call on my lazy ass.

Pity we are so disparate and disorganized. But the times, they are a changin'. Have faith, brother.

[rebel with a cause]

28. No you didn't blunt my passion

I just feel bad because I didn't know Max was having such a hard time. Didn't mean to give you a guilt trip, or maybe I did, who knows.

I am sitting this one out, but I think you are right about the times a changin'. I have a feeling that this is the time, this is the moment. :)



Obama in 2004 minus yours truly

[Gold Metal Flake]

29. We're good, Sister!

[AllentownJake]

16. Max spoke up for Kerry

It didn't help that much.

What we need is Iraq war veterans who have left the service speaking for Obama. Clean cut American looking kids of all races rejecting this policy that they were sent to enforce.

We also need Afghan vets speaking up on how this policy has diverted attention from the war in Afghanistan.

Let McCain refight Vietnam.

[rebel with a cause]

25. Why I suggested Max,(and that was before I knew he was ill)

was because the media is using mccains disability as a way to stop the criticizism of him. I thought if someone who had similar problems was the one to speak out, they could not do it as readily. Stupidity on my part. I know. I will shut up now and fold my tent up and exit right.

[karynnj]

38. It sounds like you want the Iraq war versions of John Kerry

"Clean cut American looking kids of all races rejecting this policy that they were sent to enforce."

I agree with you and this. Jon Soltz(?) and Patrick Murphy have been great. The reason for their effectiveness is the same reason that the Nixon administration so feared Kerry.

[Shakespeare]

17. That's a really, really unfortunate choice of words in your title. n/t

[rebel with a cause]

21. Maybe so but it is too late to change it now.

:shrug:

[babylonsister]

26. We all know what the OP meant; it wasn't a slam, he's trying to help.

Why hinder?

[Shakespeare]

32. I wasn't trying to hinder.

I didn't slam him or ask him to change it, did I? The unintended irony struck me as being rather humorous, in fact (with all respect to Sen. Cleland).

[goldcanyonaz]

19. stand up?? perhaps speak up, the man can not stand

[rebel with a cause]

20. You can stand up even when you remain seated..

Standing up for what you believe in does not require you to be on you feet. I think Max would understand what I meant. At least I would hope he would.

[rasputin1952]

30. Max Cleland is a true hero....a few weeks before he received

the wounds that took him out of the war, he was awarded a Silver Star for acton in Khe Sahn. As a Signal Corps Captain, his men were caught in a fire fight; he dragged several of the wounded to safety, treated their wounds and set up a perimeter. Not long after he was awarded the SS he went on a mission to ensure commo was up and running, and as much as I hate to say this, he had planned on having a beer or two with his soldiers, "hence Coulter's insane "beer run" story". A "green" soldier, not knowing that a slightly bent pin of the grenade would add a slight element of safety dropped said grenade and Cleland, in an attempt to save lives, limbs and the slick tried to hurl the grenade away. For this, he lost 3 limbs. What they did to Max was inexcusable, and Saxby Chambliss, a Chickenhawk, barely won the election.

I believe that Chambliss would run from a lit match, he is a coward and a fraud. His day in hell cannot come soon enough.

[rebel with a cause]

35. Yes, Max is a hero.

and I think that word is sometimes used to much today. To me, mccain is a survivor, and should be recognized as being one that survived against great odds, just the way the people that survived the concentration camps should be. When I think of hero, I think of someone who saves others not just himself, but then I am cynical to the max about such things.

I saw Max as a very brave man when he came with Obama into Southern Illinois to campaign for Kerry. We are not the easiest place to get to quickly, especially when you are wheelchair bound. And they were not speaking to thousands, they spoke to hundreds and then moved on to the next place where they would again speak to hundreds.

[Stevepol]

31. Wish Max would speak out on the Diebold fraud 02 that lost the election for him in GA.

When it comes to electronic voting machines people suddenly become blithering idiots. They may have intelligence, but nobody seems willing to say the obvious. Our election system is completely corrupted now and the corner was turned in 02. After that, we no longer had a democracy.

I can still remember following the GA results and how amazed I was after noting how Cleland had a 5 pt lead in the Atlanta Journal polls going in and then lost by around 7 or so.

That's when I read that the vote had been counted on Diebold touchscreens w/o paper, w/o audits, w/o even the possibility of recount.

Boy, the investigative journalists will be on this like white on rice, I thought. The American journalists are top-notch. They wouldn't let something as obvious as this slip by: a vote counted totally in secret w/o any means of checking or verifying. Nobody in his right mind would accept the results from an election like that.

As I say, that's what I thought. Afterwards, neither Cleland nor Barnes (who lost by an even great flip from the pre-election polls) raised even a murmur or peep. The journalists if such still existed at the time anywhere in the country (or exist today) had other priorities.