So the Clinton supporters who are now backing McCain are just GOP operatives, eh?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

Even the ones who are pledged delegates to the DNC??

I just read this thread about Debra Bartoshevich, an elected delegate from Wisconsin.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6359166&mesg_id=6359166


Not only has dear Debra expressed her intention to vote for McCain in November to a reporter, she has also joined a group called "Citizens for McCain".

This is to all of you who respond to every report of this kind of thing with "Oh it's just a set up by the RNC, nothing to see here!". It is time for Hillary Clinton to make a forceful statement that makes clear to her deadend supporters what a danger John McCain poses to this country, and the world. And it's time to stop being patient with petulant jerks like Debra and "giving them space". Being a Democrat means you care about this country and all its people. It means putting your ego aside and working to remove the neocon stain from our government.

Oh, and Debra, please come to the Convention in August. I'm a delegate too and I want to see you there. Be sure to wear your McCain button so we'll know who you are. I'm not usually a proponent of public shaming but I'm willing to make an exception just for you. :grr:

[madfloridian]

1. Yes, it is time.

It is time for all the party leaders to take a stand of acting like wimps.

[americanstranger]

2. Debra needs to grab a seat on the clue bus.

She should get over herself and back the nominee or forfeit her delegate status.

- as

[butterfly77]

3. I saw a woman in the audience for McCain

and she had a Hillary sign with McCain attached and all I could think of was that she was really a RepubliCON...

[stray cat]

4. So Lieberman really is a democrat just like her!

[TexasObserver]

5. FORMER delegate. Her credentials are gone now.

Good riddance to her.

[redqueen]

6. Glad to hear that.

I was wondering how anyone could be a delegate without swearing beforehand to support the nominee.

What a clueless dipshit.

[TexasObserver]

7. I'm not aware it has been done, but confident it has been.

I'm sure someone in the bowels of the DNC is denying her credentials to the convention based upon her public statements. If you won't support the party, you can't be a delegate.

I'm assuming it has been done, but I'm fairly certain it either has been done or will be done the next few days.

[Cha]

17. E HA!

Swift Justice. We aren't playing tiddlywinks here.

[GoesTo11]

8. This idiot should examine McCain & Obama's healthcare plans

Debra Bartoshevich of Waterford was elected to be a delegate for Clinton. Bartoshevich, who has worked as an emergency room nurse at Columbia-St. Mary’s Hospital in Milwaukee for 15 years, said she got involved because of the need for people to have access to health care.

“I support her because of her universal health care plan,” she said in a speech before the votes were cast. “I see the devastating consequences of diseases on the uninsured.”

Just for the record: McCain's plan is more competition and tax cuts, and "freeing" companies from providing coverage. Debra's previous god (Hillary) said called McCain's plan "a radical approach that could lead to millions losing their employer-based insurance. "While people might have a 'choice' of getting such coverage, employers would have no incentive to provide it"


Debra, You Are An Idiot.


Links:

http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2008/05/05/local_news/doc481e8f5b068f6954805776.txt
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/apr2008/db20080429_854428.htm

[Raster]

9. Either a liar or an idiot. Or both.

[rosesaylavee]

14. So how does voting for the rethug who will do NOTHING for

healthcare answer her concerns? What an absolute idiot. Obama will most likely work with Clinton to get healthcare advanced.

Lot of good her tantrum did for her personally and for her very valid concern. Idiot.

[99th_Monkey]

10. Hillary & Bill have been on an extended R&R vacation, but I'm sure they'll get right on it ...

...once they're done with R&R "all fired up" to put Obama in the WH.

[LaurenG]

11. When any of us openly state that we are voting for McCain we show our ignorance,

thoughtlessness and selfishness. Anyone who would do that is NOT a democrat or humanitarian.

No one who truly understands what's at stake would do something like that without having a deep hatred of themselves and those they claim to love.

Thankfully McCain isn't going to win, and only losers will vote for him anyway.

[tandot]

12. Most Clinton supporters will or already have jumped on the Obama bus

There will be a few that don't. However, just looking at our Republican family members and friends, I am very certain that we'll get a lot of moderate Republicans who'll vote for Obama.

Also, I think the whole thing that many Clinton supporters would vote for McCain over Obama is created by Republicans to prevent us from uniting. And the media is more than happy to spread it...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

15. You think Debra is a Republican creation?

It's strains credulity that a GOP mole would make it all the way through the delegate election process. As an elected delegate myself, I can tell you that they don't just give those spots away. They are generally the reward for being dedicated campaign volunteers AND having a record of political activism in the Party.

Trust me, the probability is very high that Debra is a long-time Democrat. I'll grant you, she's not a very good (or smart) one but she's no Operation Chaos agent either.

That was the whole point of my OP. It's time to stop cutting these idiots slack and the main onus is on Hillary to let them know that their childish behavior is unacceptable. If they continue, then she needs to distance herself from them as Barack did Jeremiah Wright. People like Debra are her Reverend Wrights.

[tandot]

19. Debra isn't a Republican creation. The hype about Clinton supporters voting for McCain en mass is

In my eyes, Debra isn't a Democrat anymore. Of all of the delegates, how many said that they'll vote for McCain? Obama won't be our nominee because of her??? Obama is our nominee and people like her don't matter. In the GE, most Clinton supporters will vote for Obama. And, we'll get enough independents and moderate republicans to smoke McBush's ass.

Some of you guys are raising a stink about a few idiots who claim to be voting for McCain. Clinton is supporting Obama and has asked all of her supporters to follow her lead. Clinton can't force anyone to do that. As a matter of fact, real Democrats don't need to be forced to vote for the Democratic nominee.

To vilify Clinton because some of her supporters are assholes, is helping McCain. The republican party doesn't want anything more than keeping us divided.

I am tired of fighting the primaries. Can we give it a rest?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

21. I'm not 'vilifying' Clinton. Stop with the hyperbole.

I'm saying she needs to address this.

[tandot]

22. I hope Clinton will do that, too. But if that doesn't help, there is nothing Clinton can do.

[11cents]

13. Polling has shown that Obama's problem isn't ex-Hillary supporters or women

He polls poorly with white males. The same contingent that hasn't supported the last several Democratic candidates.

White males. Not "Hillary supporters." And not women.

And constant trolling around the media looking for one or another self-declared Hillary supporter who's making an ass of her/himself, so that you can display them here in order to tar ex-Hillary supporters in general ... is dumb and self-defeating in a number of ways. It's insulting to people that are now getting behind a candidate who wasn't their first choice, i.e., it's insulting to the vast, vast majority of Hillary supporters. And that's to say that it's insulting to about half the Democratic rank-and-file. And it's self-defeating because it suggests that Obama has a problem that he really doesn't have. This kind of thing wastes the energy of everyone who's trying to get Obama elected.

[cbayer]

18. I absolutely agree with you.

You said it much better than I could have. It is the continuation of a very bad strategy that just further alienates former Clinton supporters.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

24. And do you have any problem with what Debra Bartosevich, a pledged delegate, is doing?

So, I'm continuing a 'bad strategy' but Debra being an avowed McCain supporter, as an elected pledged delegate to the DNC is hunky dory?

Who's alienating people?

[cbayer]

26. I have a huge problem with Debra Bartosevich.

I also have a problem with the way you posted this. She is a single individual who is clearly gone to the dark side. She is, otherwise, representative of nothing. There was a similar thread about this with a much less provocative title and no attempt to lump this person in with Clinton supporters in general. You commented in that thread. I do not see why it was necessary or how it was helpful to re-post it with a different title.

The bad strategy I refer to is the continuing vilification of Clinton supporters despite the overwhelming evidence that the vast majority have moved quickly over to Obama. Lumping those people and this individual together is what is alienating.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

27. Show me where I vilified Clinton or made a general comment about her supporters

You can't. Because I didn't. I specifically referred to "deadend supporters". Dead-enders, by definition, means a small percentage of loyalists who refuse to give up.

Hillary Clinton has made it clear that she's behind Obama 100% but people like Debra still make a lot of noise. Noise that is eagerly picked up by the MSM. The Milwaukee Sentinel is not some obscure blog. Hillary Clinton needs to make a strong statement to these folks that supporting McCain (whether proactively or through the attrition of not voting) is simply not a valid idea. That's not "vilifying" her (BTW, someone already used that term on this thread so at least be original), it's simply pointing out that she needs to take some leadership on this.

I'm sure if the situation were reversed, with deadend Obama supporters expressing support for McCain, all kinds of "Obama Supporters 4 McCain" popping up, and an Obama delegate was telling a newspaper that she was now a McCain supporter, that you'd want Obama to come out and say something. I know I would.

[cbayer]

28. I don't know how much clearer Clinton can be.

She has said as loudly and clearly as possible what she wants and what she wants from her supporters. These fringe group people were in it for some other reason and don't represent the Democratic party at all. They also do not represent Clinton supporters at all. They are getting more attention than they are worth.

I truly believe that the RW and the media have a vested interest in keeping us divided, so I object to anything that we do to help them in that crusade. I do not wish to fight with you personally, I just wish to encourage the good people of DU to be thoughtful and not intentionally or unintentionally poke a stick at Clinton supporters who have moved over without any complaint.

This woman is toast. She has made a fool of herself and will never be trusted within the party again. I don't think Clinton needs to do anything but distance herself from these kinds of people.

Peace to you, and I mean that.

[tandot]

20. Thanks! You actually said it way better than I have.

:hi:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

23. The OP is about a PLEDGED DELEGATE to the DNC

What part of that do you not understand? Are you okay with that? Is it cool with you if she sets a precedent for other delegates to follow her example? Won't that be a lovely story to have the MSM blaring 24/7 prior to our Convention? :sarcasm:

Debra spoke to the media. I didn't go looking for her, nor am I "tarring" all Clinton supporters. Show me where I did that. Go ahead. You can't.

This is not about demographic groups or polling. This is about a cadre of sore loser deadenders who are reveling in the attention they get while reinforcing their victim trip feedback loop. Notice how Debra managed to work Reverend Wright, Rezko, and foreign policy in her comments. "Democrats" like her are giving plausible deniability to the repukes to help them steal the election.

[babylonsister]

29. Don't forget those surburban white women who are supposedly

polling better for Mcsame. Tweety told me so yesterday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=6358607

[vaberella]

16. I've said it once and I'll say it again. ANY WOMAN WHO VOTES McCAIN IS AN IDIOT!!

I don't care if your in mensa or have the biggest brain on Earth. No female in their right mind would vote McCain.

[Catchawave]

25. Can we leave Clinton out of this, Obama won, right?

Obama won, right?

Obama won, right?

So reach out to the Clinton supporters, rather than trash them. Obama won.

[Name removed]

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