Talking with my uncle.

[ccharles000]

Here is what happened.

Him:You do know Obama is a Muslim right.
Me:He is not.
Him:yes he is.
Me:How do you know?
Him:he is a liar.

After he said that I just gave up and came to the conclusion some people will believe what they want no matter how stupid.:argh:

[ColbertWatcher]

1. Did you consider laughing at him as if he was telling a joke?

Or is your uncle not one of those kinds of people?

[ccharles000]

3. No he is not.

His solution for gay marriage is to kill all gay people (I am not going to tell him I am gay until I move far away).

[ColbertWatcher]

5. The hate is strong in him.

Do you have any idea where it came from?

Or is he just a product of an old generation?

[ccharles000]

7. he is just a product of an old generation.

[DevonRex]

13. At first I read that last part seriously. Then it struck me funny. Yes,

you should be VERY far away from him when you tell him you're gay. Maybe even on another continent. :)

I have folks like your uncle in my family. And we have to love them anyway and just hope that someday they'll see the light.

One of my sisters reads all the stuff James Dobson of Focus on the Family puts out about homosexuality. She is really hung up on it, as if her life is really affected by the mere fact that there are gay people living among us. As if her marriage is somehow threatened. I just don't get it. But then she also says that Christians are the most persecuted people in the US.

I say "Focus On Your Own Damn Family" - one of my favorite bumper stickers.

[Lasher]

2. You're right.

Our best hope for real change is with young voters.

[roseBudd]

10. Thank God these people are an ever diminishing portion of the electorate

[Lasher]

12. Yes they are.

But I'm thinking right now of some people I know who will vote for Republicans until the day they die, no matter what - unless someone even more radically rightwing like George Wallace, Ross Perot, or Bob Barr runs as a third party candidate.

[ashling]

4. Cognative Dissonance is a powerful thing

:hurts:

[ColbertWatcher]

6. It is indeed. n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. I have the same problem with my boss

who came in and said that. He went on to say the Obama was sworn in on the Qur'an. I tried to give him correct information, citing sources (as is my way), and he shouted over me that Glenn Beck and his preacher told him so and that I was therefore wrong. I told him there was no point in our having a political discourse in that case and to kindly not talk to me about politics.

[moriah]

17. His preacher is talking about Obama from the pulpit?

See, that's the one thing that irked me about the Trinity UCC issues. It wasn't that the preachers were saying "God damn America" or various other things that irked so many other people. It wasn't that they were encouraging their parishioners to support Obama, even though that's still a touchy issue with keeping ones 501(c)3 status -- they weren't saying you had to vote for Obama.

It was when they argued *against* a candidate from the pulpit.

Sure, part of that was because they were arguing against the candidate I supported. But....

A 501(c)3 organization, which most churches are, cannot intervene in a political campaign and still keep their 501(c)3 status.

From the Pew Forum, attempting to explain the fine line a church must walk:

"The IRS has advised that for an issue discussion to violate the political campaign intervention prohibition, it must contain some reasonably overt indication of support for or opposition to a particular candidate. A communication is particularly at risk of violating the political campaign intervention prohibition if it makes reference to candidates or voting in a specific upcoming election. The IRS has identified the following factors as relevant when determining whether an advocacy communication constitutes political campaign intervention:

(a) whether the communication identifies one or more candidates for a public office;
(b) whether the communication expresses approval or disapproval of one or more candidates’ positions and/or actions;
(c) whether the communication is delivered close in time to an election;
(d) whether the statement makes reference to voting or an election;
(e) whether the issue addressed in the communication has been raised as an issue distinguishing candidates for a given office;
(f) whether the communication is part of an ongoing series of communications on the same issue that are independent of the timing of any election; and
(g) whether the timing of the communication and identification of the candidate are related to a non-electoral event, such as a scheduled vote on specific legislation by an officeholder who also happens to be a candidate for public office."

http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=281

From what I understand, Father Pfleger's comments came so far after the Illinois primary that they wouldn't count. The election as far as Illinois was concerned had already happened. I am unsure what the date was for the "Hillary Clinton ain't been called ..." sermon given by Reverend Wright. Again, if it was after the election, I don't think those comments could put the church in jeopardy.

But if your boss's pastor was talking about Obama in a negative manner before your state's primary, or continues to do so now that Obama has been named our nominee, your boss's church could lose its 501(c)3 status. And that's rather serious.

It's a fine line for churches to walk, but many churches have lost their tax-exempt status for such things. One rather blatant case was where a church paid for a political ad 4 days before the election in major newspapers against Bill Clinton in 1992, using church funds. But there are other cases.

I don't know if it would help or hurt your discussions in the office regarding politics to mention it, but if you know of specific churches putting their 501(c)3 status in jeopardy, a call to the IRS wouldn't be bad IMHO....

[Abacus]

21. I don't think it was appropriate either,

even though they supported my candidate. I think they deserved the investigation they were/are under, I'm not sure what came of it.

Sure, part of that was because they were arguing against the candidate I supported. But....

[moriah]

23. They are/were under investigation?

I didn't know.

I hope, for their parishioners sake, that they do not lose their 501(c)3 status. If the comments about Hillary were made after the Illinois primary, I highly doubt they will. It's really hard NOT to suggest your parishioners support a member of your church in elected office. And I think Rev. Wright is intelligent enough to know the 501(c)3 issues -- so I highly doubt his comments about Hillary were made before the primary.

If a preacher is telling his flock, however, that Obama is a Muslim, or even if a liberal church's pastor was telling it's flock that McCain <insert inflammatory prejudicial lie here>, that's different than stating opinion. Which, IMHO, is what the Trinity pastors did -- state opinion. They didn't lie.

Reverend Wright was also not lying when he said the comments that were given so much airplay. I think he was much more on target than Falwell was when he said this right after 9/11:

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who try to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say 'You helped this happen.'"

Anyway, sorry for rehashing primary and I will shut up now.

We do need to figure out some way to expose pastors who are lying about Obama from the pulpit. It isn't right.

(Edit because I forgot that square brackets make it think HTML.)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. Another thought

Which I might use on my boss as well--

Next time someone says "Obama is a Muslim", say,

"You know, if he is, he must be a lot like Dr. Ali ________. You know him. He's the local heart surgeon. Do you know how many lives he's saved since he moved to our community? Our small town is lucky to have attracted someone as dedicated to saving others as Dr. Ali. And Obama's dedicated to doing the same thing, on a larger scale." (Dr. Ali is our local heart surgeon, btw.)

I think this technique might work because it puts them off guard. They are expecting a denial so they can fight--this blindsides them and makes them aware that : 1. There are Muslims within our community who are vital, productive citizens, and 2. Obviously, not all Muslims are terrorists. This making "Muslim" a bogeyman has a lot to do with ignorance.

[ColbertWatcher]

11. Disarming someone determined to argue always works.

Good idea.

[AspenRose]

19. Good suggestion

Our pediatrician is Muslim as well :thumbsup:

I wish more folks focused on how offensive it is to use followers of Islam as a scapegoat. People who engage in such behavior need to be shamed.

[Sparkly]

14. My suggestion: Ask, "What makes you think that?"

Of course, the source will probably be vague. "I heard..." Explain that some Special Interests are spreading the lie hoping they can fool gullible people. (Making him a gullible fool if he believes it, without saying that. You could even say "uninformed.") Then show him proof that it's a lie and criticize the idiots who put out such rumors, and the idiots who believe them.

[helderheid]

15. Did you ask him about his pastor?

[rox63]

16. Encourage him to vote for Bob Barr

He certainly isn't going to vote for a Dem. And at least a vote for Barr takes one away from McLame.

[phrigndumass]

18. We might be related, lol

Your uncle and my uncle might be the same person. Is his name Harry?

It's impossible to debate against stupid :rofl:

[many a good man]

20. Did you tell him McCain is a Wiccan?

And ask him why the press is covering it up???

[On the Road]

24. That's Probably the Best Respose Yet

[mascarax]

22. Muslim & Jeremiah

What I don't get is how "Barack is Muslim" ties to "Barack agrees with Rev. Wright"! So is he a Muslim under the influence of a maniacal Christian African American preacher? Why is a Muslim sitting in a Christian church for 20 years then? Or is that part of his Evil Plan?! <sigh>

[rasputin1952]

25. There willl always be be people who believe only what they want

to believe, no matter how the facts get in the way.

Unfortunately, there are people who believe that women, blacks, asians and caucasians who do not agree with their personal points of view, simply are not human beings...:(

[donheld]

26. Some people want to believe he's a muslim

That way they don't have to not vote for him because he's black.

[dailykoff]

27. Tell him we need a Muslim in the white house.

Sometimes the best Christian for the job is a Muslim. :)