Obama rejects all but one town hall appearance with McCain.

[Evergreen Emerald]

WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Friday rejected Republican rival John McCain's proposal for 10 joint town-hall appearances, offering instead to have just one on the July 4 holiday.

Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said he offered to meet McCain in five joint appearances between now and the Nov. 4 election. But only one of those was a town-hall meeting, plus three traditional debates and an in-depth debate on foreign policy.

The McCain campaign said Obama's offer was to hold the single town hall on Independence Day — which likely would have resulted in less attention while Americans are on holiday. McCain told reporters traveling with him in New Jersey that was "a very disappointing response."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080613/ap_on_el_pr/town_hall_debates;_ylt=AjUyce3XTvBc.Wgkxsnsk9eyFz4D

[anonymous171]

1. McCain doesn't want any more debates because he doesn't want to be called out on his flip-flops.

[TTUBatfan2008]

10. So you actually think...

the media would call him out? The media coddles McCain more than any politician in the last 30 years.

[anonymous171]

23. Obama could call him out.

"So, you were for Roe v Wade before you were against it?"
"So, you were against torture before, what changed your mind? Besides the GOP nomination, I mean."

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

35. And you were FOR your own immigration bill before you were AGAINST it, in an effort

to pander to the conservative Republican base?

[cosanostradamus]

2. I WOULDN'T DEBATE HIM AT ALL

.
Why give McBush free publicity? He's not raising much money, and advertising is expensive. Bleed him dry. Most people probably don't even know his name. Why teach them?

This is war, not a town meeting. The Repukelickins will pull every foul trick they can to hurt Obama. You don't make nice with people like that. Tell McBush that if he wants to debate, ever, he has to stop all attacks on Obama from all sources. He can't and he won't; so, no debates.

Obama is pulling so far ahead so fast that he has absolutely no reason to engage McBush at all. He doesn't need to debate. It can only hurt him. He shouldn't even respond to McBush by name. Let Obama stay above it all. Let surrogates rip McBush to shreds, no holds barred. His wife is a thief and a drug addict. He's a philanderer who abandoned his first wife in her hour of need, for a rich young chippy. Swiftboat him: He betrayed his comrades in N. Vietnam for a hamburger. He's the Manchurian Candidate, programmed to betray America. He's senile, in poor health, prone to strokes. Make his head explode. But never mention his name. Call him McBush. That's who he is.

We Democrats have to fight even harder and dirtier than the Repukes. Our country, our world is at stake. We owe it to the hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed by Bushco. We must end the corporatization of our country, our world, before it's too late. After the election, we can investigate, prosecute and imprison the entire Puke Party. Wipe out their nests: They're a terrorist organization, a bunch of traitors, real America-haters. Once they're gone, we can reform the system so dirty politics is outlawed. But first we have to win.

No debates. None.
.

[Evergreen Emerald]

3. I don't think that would work.

Obama would come off as afraid. He has already made a couple of mistakes: dumping the news on a Friday when everyone knows that is where you dump stuff you hope will get over looked. And then he choose the fourth of July where no one will be watching.

He needs to not appear to be shying away from McCain.

And, I disagree that no one knows McCain's name. He has been in the Senate for years and his prisioner of war status as an American hero is well known. I am unaware of McCain's campaign financial status.

[cosanostradamus]

9. WHY DO YOU THINK MCCAIN WANTS TO DEBATE?

.
He has less than half the money Obama has, and his money is coming in much slower. The Pukes are really worried about it.

There's three kinds of people in this election:
1. Die-hard Repukes who will never vote for Obama. Less than 20% of the electorate. Maybe only 10% in this election, if Fundies stay home and new Dems come out as they have been.
2. Die-hard Obama voters who will never vote for McCain. More than 40% of the electorate. Maybe 60%, depending on turnout.
3. People who haven't been paying attention. 10-20%. They don't know who either candidate is, yet. They've certainly heard of Obama, at least vaguely. "He's the black guy." But this old Vietnam guy that gets all confused and cranky, not so much. If these people vote at all, it won't be on issues or knowledge of the candidates. They won't know who they're going to vote for until they step in the booth, if they ever do. Only some major buzz around big media events, like debates, will reach through the fog they live in. That, or a major implosion in the Obama camp, or an explosion in the McCain side. So why risk one? Why create any more buzz for McCain? That what he's desperately trying to do here. Obama has nothing to win, and everything to lose by debating.

The Senate? You think most people even know who their OWN Senator is?

"American Hero"? Says who? Him? For what? Bombing civilians? Losing a war? Crashing his plane, several times? Getting captured? Surrendering? Getting special treatment from the N. Vietnamese cuz Daddy was an Admiral, and so was Gramps? Abandoning his crippled wife as soon as he got home? Some hero! It's all in the spin. Most people haven't heard it spun either way. They will.

Scared? Who cares? Who's paying attention? See #1 & #2, above.
.

[my3boyz]

12. Are you implying that Obama is the only one that dumped news on Friday? McCain has been doing his

share of Friday dumping too.

[dana_b]

6. how will debating McCain hurt Obama?

I'm sorry but Obama should be able to wipe the floor with him. If Obama can't, then we have a problem.

[cosanostradamus]

13. THE POINT IS...

.
Obama is way ahead, and gaining fast. He has nothing to win by debating, and everything to lose. Never fight a fight you don't need to fight.

McCain is way behind, and slipping, esp. in money. He will be getting killed by Obama's ads, outspent 2-1, maybe 4-1. Why give him an hour of free TV, ever? McCain has nothing to lose, and everything to gain by debating. This isn't a game. It's our lives. Let the old man spin in the wind.
.

[dana_b]

14. I do get your point

however, as someone else pointed out, the Repubs will spin it as Obama being too scared to debate him. Then some will think "yeah, why didn't he debate McCain?". I think Obama will hurt himself if he doesn't do it.

[cosanostradamus]

19. WHO CARES?

.
We're winning. Get used to it.

The Pukes will spin anything we do, no matter what we do. We can't plan our campaign on that. That's playing defense. We have to play offense: Put them on the defensive. No quarter asked, none given.

In case you haven't been paying attention, the corporate media are NOT our friends. They have ruthlessly lied and attacked everyone around Obama. They have given Hillary and McCain free passes. Maybe you don't remember, but previous Democratic candidates got knocked out by sound bites of attack-questions by the debate "moderators." These debates are sponsored by third parties. They make the rules. Every one of them in my lifetime has been deliberately stacked against the Democrat. No Democrat has benefitted from debating, except Bill Clinton: But he had help from Ross Perot.

As the leaders in this election, we don't need to debate. Reagan won by refusing to play by the rules. That's what we need to do. All we have to do to win is keep on doing what we've been doing. Agreeing to anything McCain wants is lifting him up to our level. He's losing. He needs the debates. We don't.

Stop watch FuxSnooze and go talk to some real people: They're not reading newspapers or watching TV news or listening to talk radio. They're looking at gas prices and deployment notices and layoffs and no health insurance and all they know is that the Repukes have had eight years to fix things, and this is the mess they've stuck us with. They won't be listening to any Repuke spin. They'll be heading straight for the voting booth to pull the Obama lever. That's what they've been doing all year. The Pukes know it and they're running scared. Let them run all alone.
.

[Carrieyazel]

25. Obama is basically conceding that McCain will get the best of him in town halls.

Why are they doing this? I agree wih you.

It leaves the door open for the McCain camp to call him out for "running away" from him, not wanting to go up against him one-on-one, and all other sorts of hits.

Playing it safe may be their strategy to neutralize McCain, but you rarely ever win that way.

[cosanostradamus]

27. RIDICULOUS

[genna]

20. MSM already gives McCain free air time. Obama should debate because this is a democracy.

He can get accustomed to the format little by little.

Those 1000s of troops and families deserve to hear candidates say what they plan to do with their lives, and taxpayers deserve to hear how the candidates will close the budgetary shortfall.

[cosanostradamus]

24. LET THEM READ THE PAPER

.
Or check out books from the library. Televised debates are wrestling matches, not classrooms. This is politics, not civics class. If the Dems don't play to win this time, they'll lose. Here's the message for those "deserving" people: DEMOCRATS GOOD, REPUBLICANS BAD. No need debate for that. Stop advocating for McCain. He's the only living soul who needs debates.
.

[Carrieyazel]

22. That's the worst strategy of all. If you want to beat McCain, go head to head and do it.

Playing it safe does not work. Obama could say all of these things in a debate and go on offense.

[cosanostradamus]

26. WRONG ANSWER

.
See above.
.

[bigwillq]

37. WHY ALL THE CAPS?

:shrug:

[Willo]

4. Obama's camp: We'll meet you there. McCain: Doh!

McCain: Sorry, Five Joint Appearances With Obama Just Won't Do It
By Greg Sargent - June 13, 2008, 1:58PM

McCain campaign manager Rick Davis sent a letter to the Obama forces telling them that their offer was unacceptable because only one of the five meetings would be a "town hall" style event. The McCain camp wants 10 joint town hall meetings, because these "offer the best format for presenting both candidates' visions for our country's future in a substantive way," Davis wrote.

The Obama camp's full response:

"Barack Obama offered to meet John McCain at five joint appearances between now and Election Day -- the three traditional debates plus a joint town hall on the economy in July and an in-depth debate on foreign policy in August. That package of five engagements would have been the most of any Presidential campaign in the modern era -- offering a broad range of formats -- and representing a historic commitment to openness and transparency.
"It's disappointing that Senator McCain and his campaign decided to decline this proposal. Apparently they would rather contrive a political issue than foster a genuine discussion about the future of our country.

"Senator Obama believes that the American people deserve an open and accessible debate as they choose between real change and four more years of failed Bush policies, and he welcomed McCain's invitation to offer voters 'the rare opportunity of witnessing candidates for the highest office in the land discuss civilly and extensively the great issues at stake in the election.'"

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/mccain_five_joint_appearances.php

[Diamonique]

8. Just as I thought. The Rethugs lied again.

They said Obama offered to do a debate on the 4th of July. Obama's campaign offered to debate "in July". Big difference there.

Scumbags.

I look forward to these debates. Obama will make McCain look bad just by standing on the same stage with him.

[dana_b]

5. I wonder if any non-GOP people will be invited to the townhall meeting. n/t

[crankychatter]

7. gawud I love that - who's calling the shots? - not McCain - nt

[Shakespeare]

11. Obama's clearly in the alpha position on this. That's OUTSTANDING.

:thumbsup:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

36. And not only that; he wants a debate on what many falsely believe is a Repug

issue: foreign policy! Obama *is* definitely calling the shots: yeah, I'll debate you, Grandpa...on MY own terms!!!

Remember, the loser is traditionally the one who begs for debates because he/she is losing. Obama is controlling this game! :)

[rocktivity]

43. DING DING DING! Liberal_Stalwart, you're our grand prize winner!

...(McCain)...wants a debate on what many falsely believe is a Repug issue: foreign policy!

I guess they haven't learned anything from the Bush/Kerry debates.

Foreign policy was supposed to be the subject of the third and final debate, but the Bush camp insisted that it be the subject of the first because they saw it as his strongest. Had Bush left well enough alone, he would be have used to Kerry's style by the third debate and been able to concentrate on how to best present his foreign policy views. But he ended up drowning in his sweat (forcing the MSM to insist that it was a draw), and Kerry went on to bury him on his weaker subjects--domestic policy and the economy.



:headbang:
rocknation

[Hippo_Tron]

15. McCain stacks his town hall audiences with Republicans, why the fuck would Obama go to them?

[Bjorn Against]

16. He agreed to five debates. When was the last time we had five debates in a general election season?

McCain wanted every debate to be the townhall format, Obama wanted Lincoln Douglas style debates with long answers and no moderators. I am sure the McCain campaign must of refused those, because it is obvious that Obama would have wiped the floor with McCain in that format. McCain is at his least crappy in the townhall format so he wanted every debate to be in the format that was most favorable to him. If Obama were to settle on McCain's terms he would look week, by going with five debates of varying formats Obama showed he is not afraid of a debate but also showed he is not going to do everything on McCain's terms. He was right to settle on five debates.

[jefferson_dem]

17. No need to be so concerned.

It's typical that the desperate candidate without the resources or the engergy and enthusiasm to pull the "let's debate everyday" canard. Remember? Obama proposed five debates, which is more than enough. McCain looks desperate.

[David Zephyr]

18. Obama should pass on any offer by ABC after Pennsylvania.

No one in America would hold it against Obama to continue ignoring Fox. Fox is pretty much a joke with most Americans.

ABC showed its fangs for the first hour of the two hour "debate" in Pennsylvania. ABC can sit on the sidelines with Fox now.

Obama's right. Five debates. There are ample television venues for the five debates: CNN, NBC, CBS and PBS/NPR.

No ABC and No Fox.

[Carrieyazel]

28. Why? Obama can't defend himself, or go on offense if ABC is moderating the debate?

If that's the case, then its going to look like they're dodging. ABC won't be sitting on the sidelines. If Obama is dodging any other outlet but Fox, then he's got a problem.

[anonymous171]

29. ABC aired "The Road to 9/11." As far as I'm concerned, they are as bad as Fox.

[Carrieyazel]

30. Yes, I know ABC is not charitable to Dems, but won't Obama look like he's afraid to go

where he will be challenged? If he meets these challenges, he could close out this race early and defeat McCain. Big risk and big reward.

[Vinca]

34. Surely, you must know what would happen.

ABC would scrape and bow to "war hero" McBush, then ask Barack about Rev. Wright, why he's now wearing a flag pin, Father What's-His-Face and the phantom Michelle whitey tape. If ABC promises to ask McBush about calling Cindy a c*nt, dumping the first wife when she needed help the most and why he usually does NOT wear a flag pin, I'll reconsider.

[K Gardner]

33. Evidently you missed the last ABC debate. There *are* principles involved here. Sorry you feel

Obama "has a problem". I assure you, he doesn't. He and his campaign know exactly what they're doing, despite your concerns.

[David Zephyr]

42. Exactly.

Makes you wonder about why someone would encourage Obama to walk into another 60 minute non-stop ambush.

Like you, K Gardner, I saw the ABC debate and I remember the hatchet job done.

[kentuck]

21. Sounds like a more balanced debate format...

Nobody wants to hear McCain drone on at a townhall meeting. Let's have two or three real debates with questioners. I'm sure that Obama is "very disappointed" that McCain was "very disappointed" in his response. :-)

edited for spelling.

[Hippo_Tron]

31. If I were Obama I would have offered the July 4th one and left the others up int he air

That way when Abe Simpson rejects the 4th of July one Obama can accuse him of dragging his feet.

[truthisfreedom]

32. McCain is already losing debates to himself in town halls all over America.

Obama should do whatever he feels is best.

[Politics_Guy25]

38. Good-glad he saw through this Mcbush tactic-n/t

[PretzelWarrior]

39. boo fucking hoo McCain

you're not going to dictate the terms of the debate you crusty old piece of shit.

[JoePhilly]

40. They should hold it in a stadium.

[PretzelWarrior]

41. lol. that would be AWESOME. Do it in Kansas City

You'd be amazed how the crowd would still be mostly Obama. But then McCain followers would say it's tilted toward Obama unfairly because it's held after 6pm and McCain's followers are all tucked in by 6pm after their sponge baths so they can't make it.

[bullwinkle428]

44. It's very easy to stack the deck for a town hall - Obama is

being magnanimous by conceding one of those to McSame, but no way in hell should he have to do more than that!! The debates will expose everything that's wrong with Gramps...