Three reasons to NOT vote for Barack....

[OwnedByFerrets]

My wife and I were talking this morning. Nothing new about our conclusion, but I thought I would share it anyway. There seem to be only three reasons a person would NOT vote for Barack Obama. One, you are a racist. Two, you make over One Million dollars a year. Three, your fucking stupid.

What reasons am I leaving out?

[bunnies]

1. That about sums it up.

:thumbsup:

[Raine]

2. On point with those

there really are no other reasons.

[livingmadness]

3. No arguments here n/t

[wvbygod]

4. How does not voting for Obama make you a racist?

Is there something in the way of logic or evidence that could make such a claim true?

[OwnedByFerrets]

7. Its the reason Ive heard more than any other.

Its usually cloaked in sheeps clothing, but its there regardless. Hannity, with his "association" argument is basically saying "psssssssst, did you hear, hes black".

[bunnies]

8. As the OP said. Its one of several possible reasons.

Dont be a dick.

[Occam Bandage]

9. It doesn't. OP said it was one of three possible reasons, the other two being wealth or stupidity.

I would agree with OP.

[sakura]

35. You've inverted the OP's statement.

S/he said someone might not vote for Obama because of racism, not that one is racist because he or she won't vote for Obama. A ---> B, does not mean that B ----> A

[OwnedByFerrets]

48. Thank you for a well reasoned

response. BTW, I love Naruto and watch it all the time.:toast:

[sakura]

74. Yup, big Narutard here.

:-)

[Zhade]

97. Please tell me it's the real version, not the Americanized dubbed one!

NT!

[OwnedByFerrets]

114. When I watch anime on dvd....

its always with subtitles. When I watch it on Adult Swim, of course its dubbed.

[MyNameGoesHere]

126. inverted ? Huh? what? where?

There seem to be only three reasons a person would NOT vote for Barack Obama. One, you are a racist.


Where did someone invert the statement. "One, you are a racist". Seems un-inverted to me.

I am glad the message of hope, unity and change is still being spread like a wildfire .

th OP seems to have left out a few 1000 other possible reasons someone would not vote for Obama. Including the most important, We are better than you and we know who you should vote for. Now step in line and follow what we say.


Ahh we are going to win a brazillion more supporters this way.

[TheWraith]

132. No, you're pretty much reading into it what you want to read.

In this case, an excuse to have a tantrum and say that Obama supporters are calling people racists.

The OP was very clear and straightforward. If you have a problem understanding it, that's YOUR problem. Of course, I doubt you actually do, but are rather just trying to disrupt and attack.

[MyNameGoesHere]

138. Sure there ya go. It did not say :

My wife and I were talking this morning. Nothing new about our conclusion, but I thought I would share it anyway. There seem to be only three reasons a person would NOT vote for Barack Obama. """""""""""""""""""""""""One, you are a racist.""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Two, you make over One Million dollars a year. Three, your fucking stupid.

No it did not say that anywhere. It is my imagination

One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.


See that was never said.


One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.



Nope not even in the OP.

Racist was not even a topic.
One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.

No no racist text anywhere. My imagination

One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.One, you are a racist.

[WVRevy]

139. Do me a favor

...and take the "WV" out of your login.

You're embarrassing the rest of us.

[MyNameGoesHere]

141. hey do me a favor and stick it sideways.

WHO THE FUCK are you to tell me anything to do? I am what I am and if you don't like it i can show you the DU door.

[ashling]

43. It doesn't, but If you are a racist, then you won't vote for Obama

anyway, that's what I got from the original post

of course, that also makes you stupid, so ....

[cyndensco]

59. Not voting for Obama, in itself, does not make one racist.

However, when people say they have always voted democratic - always - and they will not do so this year, IMO Obama's ethnicity probably is a factor in their decision. I don't like to cry racism, but in many of those cases...oh well.

[kimmylavin]

70. Its out there.

Several of my family members - lifelong Democrats - will simply not vote for a black man.
That's racism, pure and simple.

[liberalhistorian]

94. Would they vote for the 50% of

him that's white? I'd think that would matter to at least some racists. Then again, I've never been able to understand their mindset, so what do I know?

[kimmylavin]

103. Nope.

All they see is black.
And they see that as a negative.

Really disappointing...

[democrattotheend]

131. I tried that line of argument in Philly

I met a guy who said point blank that he couldn't vote for a black person. I pointed out that Obama was only half black, which seemed to move him somewhat, but at the end of the conversation he said he still couldn't do it. Yet he insisted he wasn't racist. I'm sorry, but when you refuse to vote for a candidate solely because of the color of his skin, THAT'S RACIST!

[yardwork]

75. If you're not voting for Obama because you're stupid or a really greedy millionaire, then

you might not be a racist. If you are neither stupid nor a greedy millionaire, the only possible remaining reason not to support Obama would be that you're a racist. That's the OP's point.

There are only three possible reasons not to support Obama: racism, stupidity, and/or greed.

I would argue that a person has to generally fit the definition of stupid to be racist, and vice-versa, but it's possible that there are genius racists out there that I've never met.

[rebel with a cause]

89. one can be a genuis and still be stupid in some ways

and one can be mentally challenged and still be smart in some ways. Have met them both ways.

Never met a racist that wasn't stupid in that way. :D

[Erin Elizabeth]

81. It doesn't automatically make you racist.

But I think the OP is saying that COULD BE a reason why.

[iamthebandfanman]

129. fine, youre an idiot.

not a racist.


he did give three reasons after all.

[DainBramaged]

5. You're a Republican?

[CarbonDate]

27. See reason 3. n/t

.

[yardwork]

76. Yes. A person would have to be stupid or a really greedy millionaire to be a Republican now.

[truedelphi]

95. Best laugh of my day! n/t

[TTUBatfan2008]

6. Other reasons...

*You're a war monger

*You feel that any government programs are "communist"

*You feel that "trickle down economics" is a good idea (when history has proven it to be one of the damn dumbest ideas ever).

In other words, if you're a whackjob, paranoid conservative, then you will hate Obama.

[CarbonDate]

28. Covered under reason 3. n/t

.

[hendo]

118. Those don't necessarily mean stupid nt

[ieoeja]

134. Yes they do.

Trickle-down economics was such a an obviously stupid idea in the first place that even GHW Bush named it "voodoo economics".

Thinking any gov't program is "communist" is rather obviously stupid as well.

And I used to make even a lot of GOPers happy at the onset of the Iraq Conquest when I would say, "I don't oppose this war so much because it is immoral, I oppose it because it is a STUPID FUCKING WAR."

So which of these three do you think is not mind-numbingly stupid?

[knixphan]

42. definitely sums it up

[DFW]

10. Number two is kinda weak

I know a few people who make over $1 million a year who are supporting Obama
over McCain, and do so without the slightest hesitation.

[Eric J in MN]

56. deleted

[OwnedByFerrets]

65. You are very correct of course....

what I should have said is "those who make over one million in earnings and have NO social conscious."
Thank you for bring up the difference.

[yardwork]

77. I agree. One would have to be a really really greedy millionaire - and stupid -

to allow being rich to motivate them to vote against Obama.

Even millionaires will suffer if the country continues on this track. In fact they already are suffering the effects of our troubles - global warming, higher crime due to lack of mental and medical health care for half the country, etc.

[TheWraith]

133. True, but you could still describe it as a practical reason.

Those millionaires who are voting for and supporting Obama are going against their economic interests, since McCain is promising them permanent Bush tax giveaways.

[lsusteel]

11. Voting for Mccain because you make over $1 mill...

...is extremely shortsighted.

[Ammonium]

12. your != you're

Before calling someone else stupid, it might be helpful to make sure you have your grammar down.

Carry on. :)

[OwnedByFerrets]

16. Thank you....I'm usually very careful

about that. Its one of my peeves, but I got careless.

[Two Americas]

13. what is interesting and instructive about this

What we are saying is that we don't know, can't imagine why people would vote Republican. Obviously, half the people are not millionaires. While race is a factor, I doubt that Obama will do much better or worse than Kerry or Gore. That leaves us with "half of the people are stupid" which makes for a pretty poor basis for building opposition among the have-nots to the ravages of the wealthy and powerful, which is what the party was once about. Who would join an organization that is predicated on the notion that anyone not already with us must be stupid and beneath contempt?

Why do people vote Republican?

Strange that we always overlook the simplest answer, the most likely answer, and the one reason that we have the most power to do something about.

Could it be they are voting against us, and that the things they don't like about us are not substantive or important, are not things we need to defend or hang onto?

[OwnedByFerrets]

67. Nice post....

but what I cant understand, and never have, is why people will vote against their own best interests. I suppose if we could figure that out, we would win the election 90/10.


www.wearableartnow.com

[Two Americas]

85. a blind spot

That is a blind spot for us. It rests on two false assumptions: first, that the average person "votes their pocketbook;" and second, that voting Democratic would mean that people were voting in their own interests. I believe that neither are true. For most people - yes, those redneck toothless knuckle-dragging idiotic ignorant fundy assholes that the well-off and successful suburban DUers love to hate and hold in such contempt and have so much bigotry toward - think community first, and selfishness second when they vote and would vote for idealism - if we were idealistic instead of peddling our dry and lifeless "better than the Republicans" and "being practical and realistic" crap. Then it is important to remember that for at least half of the population, things do not improve under Democrats, and often get much worse. The party no longer represents or cares about the bottom half, and since most of us, and virtually all of the activists and most outspoken voices for the party are not only in the upper half, but are in the upper 10%, we don't care about the bottom half either so there is no pressure on the party to move to the left or represent the left behind, the abused, the poor and homeless, the suffering and the forgotten.

The more poor people are, the less likely they are to vote their pocketbook. Think about that. How do you become rich in this country? By focusing on it. WE are the ones obsessed over our own self-interest. Everyone in the country who cannot compete in this horrendously inhuman free-for-all of grabbing and stepping on people, or who refuses to do that, or who has chosen to do something with their lives that contributes to others rather than lining their own pockets - farmers, teachers, nurses, artists for example - is sliding into poverty. Everyone who is clever and good at grabbing for themselves and competing ruthlessly - and starts out with the advantages of privilege, being white, and fortunate birth for the most part - is thriving.

We, as modern liberals, assume that society more or less works, and needs just a few liberal tweaks here and there - that the "right choices" are rewarded, and the "wrong choices" are punished, so we approach the problems of poverty and homelessness as though the victims had made the "wrong choices" and so try to fix them and berate them for being insufficiently selfish or aggressive, or for failing to "get on the program" and strive to become good little suburbanites and corporate cubicle rats.

What should be abundantly clear to all honest observers by now, is that the exact opposite is increasingly true in our society. It is the wrong choices that are lavishly rewarded - the aggressive choices, the self-serving choices, the greedy choices, the clever choices, the cowardly choices - and it is the right choices that are punished, brutally punished. Poverty and homelessness are forms of this punishment. Look throughout the society - those exploiting and manipulating and bullying are prospering; those dedicated to something other than their own selfish needs, committed to contributing to others and producing real value for others, committed to making life more beautiful or rewarding or meaningful, are suffering.

Numerous studies have shown that the poorer a person is, the more generously they give to others. We want to ignore this, because we ourselves are caught up in the ethic of self-centerdness and greed. Unlike Republicans, who are free to celebrate and promote this ethic, we must bury it under endless double-talk and rationalizations and excuses, and the consequent web of lies and half-truths and contradictions has come to be what liberalism is.

If the bottom half put their own self-interest first, they wouldn't BE poor and oppressed. If we put others ahead of ourselves and "people like us" we would win the votes of all of those people from the bottom half. Until then, they don't trust us, and they have good cause to not trust us.

[Zhade]

104. Your third paragraph describes the horror of bill clinton's welfare "reform".

Great post.

[OwnedByFerrets]

112. There seemed to be a lot of

self loathing in that post. I have to disagree with almost all of it. You opinion is important though.:)

[Two Americas]

116. self-loathing?

How so?

[Zhade]

99. What unimportant, insubstantial things do you mean?

NT!

[Two Americas]

107. hey Zhade

I was thinking of bike riding and bike paths, organic and green consumer choices, hybrid cars, charitable activities by corporations, socially responsible investing, for example. Things that appeal mostly to the few who have more options and alternatives in their personal lives than most people. Even on issues of substance, I think that we often frame them in such a way that they represent the needs and desires and preferences of the more well-off few. Then, by selective advocacy - for preservation of wilderness areas rather than for public parks in urban areas and public access to recreational opportunities - we also betray an upper class bias and alienate or fail to connect with the general public.

[cliffordu]

14. You have an overwhelming obsession to destroy the world.

[madura]

15. 4. you listen to corrosive tv and believe it.

[AspenRose]

50. That falls under "stupid."

Welcome to DU.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TexanDem]

18. you're leaving out because he's a Muslim-- I still get that email ad nauseum!! I'm sooo sick of it!

[Terran]

29. That comes under the "stupid" category.

Given that the guy has attended a Christian church in Chicago for the last 20 years.

[Liberal Veteran]

63. Sometimes it comes under the "racist" category.

Some people are all too aware that he isn't a Muslim, but it's a nice excuse to fall back on because some people would rather be thought of as ignorant than racist.

I've already encountered someone like that in my personal life.

[ghostsofgiants]

73. There's a selection of racists who are also incredibly stupid.

[OwnedByFerrets]

30. Thank you for adding that one....I

had forgotten it also.

[ghostsofgiants]

72. You should send a Reply-All with clause 3 of Article Six of the Constitution.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

[27inCali]

19. Muslim is codeword for NOT WHITE AND CHRISTIAN

FUCK THOSE PEOPLE...

[VotesForWomen]

41. no, not really. nt

[Liberal Veteran]

55. To some extent, it really is.

And I know this from personally experience.

[Richard Steele]

69. Yes, REALLY.

nm

[yardwork]

78. It is for the few people I know who fear Muslims.

I don't know very many, but the few I know who fear Muslims are all white and extreme-right fundy Christians. They think that the Muslims are trying to take over 'murika and make us all worship their devil-god. It's impossible to argue with these people because in addition to being racist, they are Stupid.

[iamthebandfanman]

130. its more religious bigotry

than it is racial.

if i were a muslim in america, id be very concerned over the fact someone was trying to use their religion as a reason why someone is bad.
the racial undertones just come along with it.

most idiot bumpkins think all muslims are terrorists.

[TexanDem]

20. Another one I hear over and over and over is he's a member of CFR and is dedicated to NWO

[OwnedByFerrets]

31. I have to admit that

I dont even know what those two things mean.:crazy:

[TexanDem]

34. It's a big deal to a lot of people. Do some googling and youtube searches .>

check New World Order, Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, and Bilderberg Group and also NAU, North American Union. That will get you started. I think it's mostly the Ron Paul people who are focusing on those things, and see a big conspiracy in the works -- which, there could be some truth to it, but I'm sure it's greatly over exaggerated. Also search for Nelson Rockerfeller & NWO. A lot will come up with that as well. Anyway, these people are very convinced that Obama and Michelle are involved with this movement. He was asked about it one time at a townhall type deal, and gave a somewhat weak answer. I haven't heard him address it since.

[Rainbow gatherer]

38. George Soros

A lot of people are also concerned over the role of George Soros in getting Obama started in the first place. I have examined why the Russians hate Soros so much and I have to sympathize with the Russians on that one.

[Rainbow gatherer]

39. IN Mother Jones...

A while back Mother Jones had an article on political categories. What you might find interesting is that the Ron Paul Libertarians and the Ralph Nader progressives overlap with each other quite a bit. The issue of Barak's connection to multinational corporate leaders and behind-the-scenes foundations and organizations may cause a lot of progressives to vote for Nader, opt out of the vote, or decline to work to elect Barak. The more Libertarian voters will likely split with Barr and Paul and vote for McCain -- although I doubt they will work for him in the campaign.

[TexanDem]

52. Dispute then is motivation rather than the affiliation I guess >

but that's the bunch I hear it from - Libertarians, Ron Paul -- well, dare I say fanatics? They're vicious about this. I don't know much about the CFR but when you look up their member list, it's most head dignitaries and the top politicians. I rebut their accusations with that even Ron Paul were elected, he would be obliged to join the organization because of his position, that the CFR is pretty much an international "foreign relations" think tank, and though some members might promote NWO, that that's not the purpose of the organization. Anyway, they're convinced that Obama and McCain (and Hillary while she was still a contender) would put our sovereignty as a nation at grave risk. Guess there will be no winning that crowd over.
I'll check out Mother Jones. Thanks.

[yardwork]

80. If you think that Obama is involved in this and the Republicans are not

You're probably on the wrong board. I'm not being rude, I'm simply stating a fact. We support Democrats here. We don't believe that Democrats are involved in some shady conspiracy to take over the world. The Bush administration, on the other hand, does seem to be involved in some kind of plan to take over the world - they call it the the Project for a New American Century and Dick Cheney is right in the middle of it.

If you think that Obama is involved in something shady and the Republicans are clean as a whistle you're definitely in the wrong place.

[TexanDem]

83. Geez - didn't I say I am defending this when I hear it? I do NOT think Obama is out to undermine us!

[truedelphi]

96. You were clear enough to me.

Some people think that explaining a topic is the same as supporting at topic. (I guess.)

[Rainbow gatherer]

92. Say what?

Uh, did I say I thought anything positive about Republicans? Oh, I guess since I have traditionally liked Nader then I am part of some secret plot. I was merely pointing out that this issue will come up and that it will play well with Reon Paul's people as well as causing some progressive Democrats to question Obama. This was meant as analysis, not as attack. Geeeez.

[yardwork]

79. I don't know what those acronyms mean and I'm glad I don't.

[and-justice-for-all]

21. Your a warmongering, capitialist asshat. nt

[TexanDem]

22. Are you talking to me? I don't say it. I defend it again and again! It's a rampant smear. n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

26. Not at all mate...

I was adding to the list in the OP.

[highplainsdem]

23. You're leaving out political alignment/identification. Rasmussen, on 6/9.

had this piece on how Obama and McCain are perceived and how many voters identify themselves as liberal, conservative, and moderate.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/public_perceptions_of_obama_and_mccain_shifting_rapidly

Given that about three times as many people identify themselves as moderate or conservative as identify themselves as liberal -- and Obama is viewed by 2/3 of voters as very liberal -- it's impressive and a real credit to how well he campaigns that he's polling as well as he is against McCain.

But these are pretty solid political alignments. It's a good sign for Dems that the number of voters identifying themselves as liberal has increased from 17% to 25% in the last four years. But liberals are still a smaller voting bloc than moderates and conservatives, and the percentage of conservatives remains the same.

So Obama has to win over those moderates. Given the poll numbers so far, he's already appealing to the moderates who are leaning toward being liberals (or are really liberals but are just steering clear of the label). The crucial few percent he needs to ensure his victory in November, though, are likely to be true moderates or moderates who are leaning toward the conservative side but can be persuaded to vote for him.

You will NOT win those voters by suggesting they're racist or stupid, or wealthy and simply concerned about keeping their own taxes low, unless they prove themselvse to you by supporting Obama.

I realize we're just preaching to the choir here at DU, and in this pep-rally atmosphere it's easy to get carried away and forget there's any way to view things other than our way. But in an election year where it's absolutely crucial that Obama get those votes from moderates, I don't think it will help us win those votes for him if we're radiating contempt for people who aren't already certain to vote for him. I believe it's best to focus on telling people why Obama would be a better president than McCain, and on explaining this to potential voters with some respect for their point of view and some sympathy for their concerns. (Think of the way Obama feels about the importance of Dems appealing to voters for whom religion is important, for instance, rather than disdaining their votes.) I don't believe it helps us to demonize or dehumanize those who don't agree with us. Especially when we need those swing voters because liberals are still the smallest of those three voting blocs.

[OwnedByFerrets]

32. Thanks for adding to the list...very good.

[Elspeth]

33. This is an excellent post and should be the OP

And AMEN on this:


"You will NOT win those voters by suggesting they're racist or stupid, or wealthy and simply concerned about keeping their own taxes low, unless they prove themselvse to you by supporting Obama."

[Barb in Atl]

37. Interesting side note

I carpool with a friend each day to work and we talk politics. She asks me questions all the time about national politics - she's completely up on local politics. It gets tired, but I do it because her family is republican and she's the oddball, working at a black firm, a democrat.

But one day, she said, "Promise me that Obama won't raise my taxes." Besides the fact that that's a stupid question to ask me - how the hell can I promise that? - I said it's unlikely because her and her husband's combined income is less than $250k. The following morning, I said to her, "You know, it's voters like you that scare the crap out of me."

She got all defensive, but I reminded her that she supports reproductive rights, she supports ending the Iraq war, caring for the wounded soldiers. She really thinks McCain is kinda' a boob, like Bush. But she would still vote for McCain (or just not vote, which is just as bad) because you're worried about your taxes being increased.

She argued it with me for a moment, then I reminded her of her niece's family who didn't have insurance and she, my co-worker, had to give them money to take their 3 year old son to the doctor. I reminded her that we are all connected and that if she saves $20 in taxes, it still leaves her brother-in-law SOL (as a self employed roofer w/no insurance), it still leaves her niece's family in a predicament because the niece's husband changes jobs frequently - which means frequent probation periods of no insurance.

So, while you're right that we don't win anyone over by calling them stupid, it is important that when we talk to people about voting for their interests that we let them know what the ramifications can be - and we be blunt about it.

[Liberal Veteran]

62. So it comes down to finding a tactic that will convince a racist, wealthy, or selfish person to vote

...for Obama.

I think we have to recognize their motivations for what they are before we can present a cogent argument to the people that fall into one of those categories.

[Rainbow gatherer]

119. Nit a good categorization.

If you truly believe that people hesitant to vote for Barak are racists then you will sub-consciously perceive them badly and will send them the message that they should not vote for Barak. Do you really think all people, particularly Democrats, who are voting for Nader, McCain or not voting are racist? Do you believe they are rich? Do you believe they are selfish?

[grantcart]

24. Not an American citizen

[Stop Cornyn]

25. Replace #2 with "you are a convicted felon" because many multi-millionaires will vote for Obama

[Withywindle]

36. I got one more.

You're the sort of rage-driven psycho grudge-holder who'd burn down your own house with your kids in it just to destroy your ex's record collection.

[1Hippiechick]

109. LOL

:rofl:

[VotesForWomen]

40. i'll tell every one i know who's undecided that they're a stupid racist if they don't vote for Obama

even if it were true, it probably wouldn't be a good way to get votes. oh, and it's not true.

[OwnedByFerrets]

46. I didnt mean to insinuate that

I would "tell" them they are stupid. I do everything I can every single day to educate the ones who dont want to be educated. Many of them still will not listen and vote against their own best interests. But, in my mind, they are being, for lack of a better word, STUPID.

[Liberal Veteran]

61. Do the OP really need to explain the concept of "OR" to you?

[Yotun]

44. My fucking stupid what?

Sorry couldn't resist :p

[GoldieAZ49]

45. Nice Campaign strategy, that should work well all across the country.

Have the bumper stickers made yet?

[Imagevision]

47. Stupid? - Obama kicked both Clinton's asses and he's stupid? get a life...

[OwnedByFerrets]

49. Please re-read the OP.....

I was NOT saying anything of the sort.;-)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

51. I'd advise re-reading the OP.

;)

[CatnHat]

140. What is stupid

is even suggesting that Obama kicked the Clinton's asses. Obama, who couldn't even manage get the popular vote. Lay off the Clinton's. Seems the Hillary Clinton supporters aren't the only ones having trouble getting over the primary.

[LWolf]

53. Substantive reasons

are now against DU rules, and would get a poster banned. Did you really want to know, or is it just a rhetorical question? Or just a vehicle for bashing dissenters?

Sorry I can't tell you what you've left out.

If you really wanted to know, though, you could probably find out with a DU search or just googling.

You'd be more likely to win votes from those you are wondering about by addressing the substance than by attacking them.

Not as much fun for the bully brigade, of course, but more authentic.

[Liberal Veteran]

54. There are, however, some people who are hiding bigotry behind a veneer of "substantive reasons".

And sometimes, not substantive reasons.

I have a friend who lives in Georgia who told me I shouldn't vote for Obama. When I asked why, the first response I got was "He's a Muslim".

So I proceeded to debunk that.

When that excuse failed, I was given another reason "He won't say the pledge of allegiance".

I showed the video of him leading the pledge to debunk that.

Then I got, "I just don't think America is ready for a black president".

I let it drop and a month or so later, I was down in GA visiting and the subject of politics came up and the first thing she said was, "Obama's a Muslim".

My conclusion from that episode is that she would rather be though of as ignorant than a bigot, but a bigot she is. You might ask why I didn't press the issue at the time, but honestly, her child had just died in an automobile accident and that was why I was visiting, so it hardly seemed the time to do anything about it.

[OwnedByFerrets]

68. Wow.....

that is a sad story. I suppose it could prove that some people are just beyond help. And you are right, then was not the time. You did well.:)

[LWolf]

82. All of the examples you offer

do show ignorance and bigotry. That's not substantive, and not what I'm referring to.

The OP suggests that there are no substantive reasons. I dispute that.

I have disputed it many times on DU. Now that there is a presumptive nominee, I just can't offer them again. It's counterproductive.

Of course, so is mounting a bully brigade to tar and feather those who aren't voting for him. It would be more productive to make an effort to earn their votes, imo.

[1Hippiechick]

110. good judgment call on your part.....

[OwnedByFerrets]

64. Ya know....

I am a member of DU because I feel among friends here. Here at DU, I can say negative things about republicants and not be derided or put down.
When I first got here, I had a very thin skin and things would bother the hell out of me if others didnt like what was said. After much time here, its grown thicker, thank goodness.

In saying that, if I DID want to be talked to like a child or put down for my anti-repubicant thought, I would just go to "that other place".

Until I am told its not OK to post anti-republicant sentiments here, I will continue to do so. Because my friends here outweigh my detractors. ;)

www.wearableartnow.com

[Liberal Veteran]

66. Hear! Hear!

:yourock:

[LWolf]

87. I think you are trying to say

that people who do not vote for Obama are republicans, and therefore fair game.

I think.

Of course, not all those who won't vote for him are republicans, and some, as I already noted, have substantive reasons.

I think you are also trying to say that you feel comfortable here at DU with behavior that would be arrogant bullying in the real world, and that plenty of DUers feel the same.

Just my opinion, of course, but I don't think that reflects well on DU.

[chieftain]

57. Brilliant !!! Your ferrets must be very proud of you both. eom

[Eric J in MN]

58. Some who make over $200,000 and under a million...

...will vote for McCain for lower taxes on themselves.

[Liberal Veteran]

60. Those kinds of people are so self-centered that it isn't worth wasting time on them...

...to try to get them to vote for something outside of their own selfish interests.

[truedelphi]

98. I can almost live with those people. It's the ones that make like $ 17K a year

And will vote for McCain that I cannot fathom. Just what the heck is in it for them??

[Eric J in MN]

117. For many of them, it's that they agree with McCain on "pro-life" judges.

I wish we would amend the Constitution to remove the president from the process of selecting federal judges.

Then people would vote for president more on economic policies.

[Rainbow gatherer]

120. How true.

Yeah, I see what you are saying. If you run into a Catholic Hispanic working at the cash register of Walmart and she asks how Barak feels about abortion, and you point out his 100% rating from abortion-rights groups, you have totally lost her no matter what else you try to use to get her to vote your way.

[BlooInBloo]

71. You're dead...

:P

[polichick]

84. I'd say FEAR is the biggest reason some people won't vote for him...

Fear of the unknown, of change, of a black man, of taxes, of "liberals," of relinquishing power to a new generation, of terrorists, etc...

[stuntcat]

101. Fear

I think if McCain wins it will totally be because of people's fears.. fears of the holy war we jumped into, fear of not having a white man for president, taxes.. liberals.. yah, FEAR.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

86. I'm not American.

I may well donate to Barack Obama, but I won't vote for him, because hundreds of pounds is a lot to spend on a plane ticket for the sole purpose of being arrested for attempting to vote fraudulently...

[rebel with a cause]

91. You are forgiven....Don't vote!

If you did then you would be stupid and in jail. ;)

[mirrera]

88. Hey! You have the same 3 Republican acquaintances I do!

[regnaD kciN]

90. 4. Your last name is "McCain"...

...and you live in Arizona.

[trayfoot]

93. You are absolutely correct!

Can't think of anything new to add!!!!!!

[stuntcat]

100. Three could be expanded a little

I'd say FEAR is a reason to vote for him but believing 4 more years of *'s bullshit would make us safer is just stupid.. so yah that falls under reason 3.

[BlooInBloo]

102. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours

[mrbluto]

105. Not really useful.

I'll vote Dem, that's for sure.

But to fling the racist, rich, or stupid labels at people isn't productive.

How many times have you found "Hey stupid" to be a useful opener when making a case for something?

There are good reasons for even racist, rich, or stupid people to vote Dem. despite their prejudice, affluence or stupidity.

Some of them we can communicate, some are convincing.

Let's find out.

To waste time chest-beating is....ignorant.

[LawyersGunsandMoney]

106. I think you covered all the bases

very well actually.

[Cleita]

108. You're a Republican tool with no morals or ethics. n/t

[JoFerret]

111. Which ferrets are you owed by?

(all very disturbing)

[OwnedByFerrets]

113. Its "owned by" and we have

only 4 right now. We love them to death. They are wonderful pets, but not for everyone. They are very high maintenance if taken care of correctly.

[JoFerret]

115. An n between ferrets is no big thing.

.

[OwnedByFerrets]

121. ....

You are correct. We OWE them many many hours of fun and happiness.:toast:

[Nederland]

122. #4: You are Pro-Life

But I suppose you consider all those people stupid...

No wonder we lose elections.

BTW, I'm pro-choice.

[Bettie]

123. One issue voters are generally stupid...

or shall I say not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

I am a mom, I've dealt with pregnancy loss, and, much to the horror of my in-laws am still pro-choice. That said, it is not the ONLY issue I consider when voting.

My Sisters-in-law, my MIL, and many other family members vote only based on that one issue which, while it may be important, is certainly not the only issue out there. My MIL sees the corruption of the Republicans, she hates it, but she will vote for them because they mouth the correct platitudes of "I'm pro-life".

The other thing is that most pro-lifers and only pro-fetus, not pro any other kind of life....death penalty? OK, good. Unending war? Great, bring it on.

Sorry, off topic now. Will shut up.

Bettie

[OwnedByFerrets]

124. Nice post....

thank for adding to the discussion.:)



www.wearableartnow.com:)

[Nederland]

127. In the same boat

Everyone in my immediate family is pro-life. As a result, I understand why they are single issue voters. If you are of the opinion that a fetus is a human being with the same rights as the rest of us then being a single issuer voter makes perfect sense. After all, if you really believe that the fetus is alive, that means abortion is killing millions of innocents every year. I can't think of a better reason to be a single issue voter.

Once again, I am pro-choice and do NOT believe the that a fetus has the same rights as the rest of us. I'm merely saying I understand why people who are pro-life act and vote the way they do.

[Bensthename]

128. Republicans are prolife

until that child is born.

Then they are the first ones to take away programs that may help that child if their were any health problems if the mother is poor.

They are the first ones to cry for the death penalty if that child commits a major crime.

They are the first ones ready to kill in the name of war.

They are the first ones ready to send our kids to war to be killed in the name of war.

[Two Americas]

137. not true

For farmers, for poor people, for many blue collar people, they accurately perceive that the Democratic party is no more a friend to them than the Republican party is. In the absence of a strong and compelling, coherent and consistent inspiring moral narrative from the Democratic party, there is little, if anything, upon which people can base their votes. Where we to strongly advocate for the have-nots, that would change, and I am firmly convinced that a strong Democratic party based along the traditional principles and ideals of the party, would get as much as 75% of the rural vote today, as well as get millions of non-voters into the system once again.

There are many sincere and intelligent people who believe that the general devaluing of human life, as expressed in war, in poverty, in the destruction of communities, is connected in a spiritual and cultural way to abortion. We may disagree with that viewpoint, but we should not fool ourselves about what it is we are disagreeing about.

But since there is no such program to support or movement to join that resonates with the bottom half, and since many people feel a civic duty to vote, one issue such as abortion can be the determining factor. Even that would not be true were we able or willing to frame that issue in a context of the haves versus the have-nots. When we refuse to unambiguously stand for labor against capital, as the Republicans do for capital against labor, there is no solid foundation to our building.

What I am suggesting here is that the shortest path to our goals, and the best way to achieve electoral success requires us to reassess what we are doing. But since modern liberalism is increasingly based upon being "right" in a narrow and self-righteous way, with the added "benefit" of being able to look down our noses at the great unwashed masses and feel superior, in lieu of going for actual objective results, there is great resistance to criticism of our methods and stances so we are locked into a weak approach that plays right into the hands of the right wingers and that alienates vast swaths of the public before we can even get started.

[Bensthename]

125. As far as #2.. Thank you to all dem millionaires...

And we wonder why hate radio and MSM is against dems.. Well, they have a monetary incentive to vote republican.

The rich that vote dem know they will lose money. But they do it out of the goodness of their heart for the ideas of fair and equal treatment for all, smaller military force, helping the helpless, better education for our young ones, etc..

Bravo to the rich dems for not putting their dollar first.

[JuniperLea]

135. Holy shit...

This thread is imploding unnecessarily! Good point, OwnedByFerrets! Too bad so many DUers need to learn to read what is actually written and stop trying to interject things between the lines that were never intended.

No wonder there is so much rude behavior here.

Back to the point...

I'm at a loss to find a #4. Good job:)

[DailyGrind51]

136. You're correct, especially regarding the "stupid" part.

I have read "letters to the editor" in both major Chicago newspapers from people who only seem to be concerned about possible tax increases, if a Democrat (any Democrat) gets elected. The sad thing is that most of these people probably would be paying less under the Obama tax plan or, possibly, nothing at all.

[Zuiderelle]

142. We need to stop telling people they are stupid.

It doesn't do much for winning people over. Tell them why they should vote for him without insulting them.