Obama, April 2008 & May 2007: "If you are tough, you don't have to talk about it."

[highplainsdem]

As I've already said elsewhere in this forum, I didn't like Obama's "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun" comment echoing The Untouchables. I didn't think it helped him or suited him. I did some quick googling and found statements he's made in the past dismissing such tough talk.


In April of this year:

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/04/23/obama-you-dont-have-to-talk-tough-to-be-tough/

“I know that people like to talk tough and use a lot of rhetoric about fighting and obliterating and all that stuff. You know that I have always believed that if you are tough, you don’t have to talk about it,” Obama said.

And in May of last year:

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/blogs/statehouse_report/?m=200705

“My experience in my own life has been that if you are tough you don’t have to talk about being tough,” Obama said.

(It's the May 14 blog entry there -- which is also very interesting as a flashback to an Iowa journalist's take on Obama's chances over a year ago.)


I'm posting those old quotes because they do spell out why I wish Obama hadn't borrowed that comment to try to show toughness. The most relevant word in both quotes is "if" -- IF you are tough, you don't have to talk about it. Talking tough all too often inspires doubts about whether you are tough (unless you're coming out of a culture that expects such talk, in which case it's less meaningful simply because it is ritualistic).

Obama had already been responding quickly and effectively to attacks -- think of his telling the GOP to lay off his wife. And we Dems were glad to see that. None of us doubted he would respond. He didn't need to reassure us of that. And if, for instance, he'd added to his simple remark telling the GOP to lay off his wife by saying "Or else I'll..." he'd have undercut the effectiveness of the statement and invited ridicule.

So I'm not sure for whom his words about bringing a gun if they bring a knife were meant. If he intended them to impress Republicans, well, they're responding the same way we would have if Bush or McCain had said something similar, by ridiculing him or questioning his judgment.

We're used to bluster from Bush and McCain, though. It bothers us, but we're not surprised by it.

People aren't used to this sort of thing from Obama, and I believe it conflicts with his image of being more intelligent and thoughtful. The sort of remark that would seem dumb but not terribly surprising from a former military pilot sounds even worse coming from someone with the brains to be president of the Harvard Law Review.

And it definitely conflicts with his own words on the subject of tough talk.

So I'm hoping he won't make a habit of this in the future.

[glowing]

1. He may have thought the joke fit with the crowd? I don't know...

He was in Philly.. and he was talking about the Eagle fans.. and as a Buc fan, they are no pleasant picnic when it comes to us always beating their asses (of course then they lose every other game LOL--but normally we beat Philly and its not too nice when you are in Philly and they are losing)... so, maybe it just fit with the crowd.

[babylonsister]

2. At what point would it be okay with you for Obama to defend himself?

Those dates you provided happened during the primary against his toughest (Dem) competition.
Would it be okay if he took the gloves off now, or should we wait for a date you might find satisfactory? When might that be?

[highplainsdem]

3. You completely missed the point of my message.

I'm glad he's defending himself. But if he tries to talk tough in a deliberate blustering way, he undercuts himself. And his earlier comments show he's aware of that.

[slinkerwink]

4. oh, brother.

[hokies4ever]

6. I feel you slink

highplains sounds like he/she is ready to throw in the towel as the election season begins. If you don't think that the Repukes are trying to dig up some dirt on his daughters right now, you don't know them very well.

[babylonsister]

8. No I didn't. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. And I have

yet to see bluster; his joking can be enough. Remember Clinton and her hunting comments, and his comeback?

"So I'm hoping he won't make a habit of this in the future."

Thank you for your concern.

[hokies4ever]

5. The best path to another Dem defeat is passiveness

so let's not go down that road. Obama knows that his opponents aren't going to call him out for being too hawkish while they're trying to portray him as a soft liberal effete. How would you feel if you knew that the RNC was probably hiring private investigators to try to dig up dirt on your family? You think they wouldn't attack his young girls if the opportunity presented itself? They're already unfairly attacking his wife and next up are his children. The man's got a right to defend himself vigorously.

[highplainsdem]

9. He should defend himself, and I didn't suggest he shouldn't.

But it doesn't help him to say something that amounts to bluster about being tough.

Saying "Lay off my wife" is effective.

If he'd said "Lay off my wife or else I'll get you because I'm tougher than you are" it would have been ridiculous.

And the "If they bring a knife, we'll bring a gun" comment was ridiculous. It was NOT a statement defending himself. It was boasting about toughness while warning of reprisals. And it didn't fit with his image or his earlier statements about tough talk not being necessary if you are tough. It really surprised me that he said it, and I'm surprised to see so many here defending it.

[hokies4ever]

10. It was a proverbial reference to political attacks

not a reference to actual combat like Dumbya's 'bring it on'. That's the nuance that you aren't understanding. There's absolutely nothing wrong with talking tough about defending yourself from swiftboating. The RNC won't be filing a complaint to the UN Security Council like Tehran did after Hillary's obliteration comments. Obama is sending fair warning to the RNC and other Republicans that they better think twice before hitting him low, especially if the attacks against his family heighten. The RNC's front page of their website is purely about Obama. Can you guess what their election strategy will be?

[Youphemism]

7. You mistakenly compare his comments on war rhetoric to political strategy...

The quote about fighting and obliterating referred directly to Hillary's comments on Iran, and indirectly to McCain's similar war bluster.

The comments about meeting a knife with a gun was a shot across the bow to help people expect that when the smears against he and Michelle come out, he will retaliate against them harshly.

Setting expectations is important for several reasons:

He was less harsh when responding to attacks by a fellow democrats -- even to the point that some questioned whether he could withstand strong republican attacks.

If he waits for a smear attack that requires a direct response, they will say, "He's just saying that to deflect." He will now be able to say, "I'm not deflecting -- I told you I was going to return incoming fire."

Setting expectations is important in politics. Obama is playing several moves ahead, as usual.

Your comparison of war positioning is irrelevant.

[highplainsdem]

12. No, he wasn't just talking about war positioning. Quoting him again:

“My experience in my own life has been that if you are tough you don’t have to talk about being tough.”


He'd already responded, and very effectively, to the Tennessee GOP's attack on Michelle. That was not about the war, and it was not a response to fellow Dems. He handled it very well and was praised for his response. He did not need to fire a shot across the bow, especially with a quote from The Untouchables that might leave him open to ridicule or questions about his judgment.

[hokies4ever]

13. He wasn't talking about being tough

He was telling his supporters that he would aggressively attack any swift-boating types of tactics. Stop acting like he said this in a nationally-televised debate against McCain or something. The context is clear that he's telling his supporters that they're not supporting a pansy or someone lacking testicular fortitude. We have another Dem to thank for helping to try to push that talking point forward.

[Youphemism]

14. I addressed your first quote, which was exactly about war...

This second poster addressed your second quote. He was talking about his strategy -- again, setting expectations for how response to smears will deviate from his appropriate hesitance to retaliate to harsh attacks by his fellow democrats.

The quote I responded to was *all* about war. I guess that's why you ignored it.

[rch35]

11. this is a fucking ridiculous OP.

some people have senses of humor, which would help to explain why he chose a quote from a movie like the Untouchables.

and talking tough is sometimes necessary, especially in politics where it often simply is a battle of words.

"aggressive negotiations"