The objection by (too) many here that defend the mouthpiece that Russert was

[TooBigaTent]

is discouraging. Their inability to recognize the damage that he and his fellow propagandists in the corporate media have done and continue to do is similar to the justification that many primary candidate supporters use to announce that they will not vote for the nominee. I suspect that they are one and the same people.

The mantra that the time is too soon after he croaked is bullshit - along the lines of trashing Natalie Maines for criticizing Shrub while she was overseas. The location, as the timing, does not make a damn bit of difference. The truth spoken about how willing Russert was to promote the atrocity in Iraq is not bound by an artificial calendar.

Allowing the media to canonize Timmy ala Raygun is just another example of liberals giving up the fight because many do not like to get their hands dirty. If we wait for Rushert to be inducted into the media hall-of-fame before we try and get the truth out there about how pitiful a journalist he actually was, we will already have lost that battle.

His family and friends can mourn the private person. Whether he was a good father or an abusive SOB is irrelevant to his actions as a key enabler of the war.

What matters here and now is that he utterly failed in his presumed role as a journalist. More than that, he actually went far over the line and actively pushed lies to promote the war.

To those deluded enough to actually praise his performance in his job as courageous, even-handed, etc. - all I can ask is that you share those drugs you are using.

[invictus]

1. K & R

[YvonneCa]

2. It's not about drugs...

...it's about HUMANITY. Bill Clinton had a good line about how, as a people, we always have things that divide us. But our strength as a country will be when we realize that our common humanity matters more.

There are times to fight, and issues to fight about that are most justified and necessary for our country. Death or serious illness of another person...be they male or female, of any race or religion, Democrat or Republican, etc... is a time when our common humanity should win the day. That shows our strength as a people. It's also how we win...whether it's an election, the war on 'terror', or our common future.

Some on DU have shown a tremendous lack of EMPATHY...for Tim Russert and his family and for his NBC and MSNBC family who are obviously mourning. On the issues (time spent, public airwaves, biased media) I always have and still do agree with many here. But this is not the time. Where is your humanity? Where is the EMPATHY?

[atreides1]

11. My Sympathies for the Russert Family

I for one do not lack sympathy for the loss suffered by his family, friends, and co-workers, but I have as much empathy for him as I would for anyone that I did not personally know.

:More fully developed empathy requires more than simply recognizing another's emotional state. Since emotions are typically directed towards objects or states of affairs, the empathiser may first require some idea of what that object might be (where object can include imaginary objects, concepts, other people, or even the empathiser). Alternatively the recognition of the feeling may precede the recognition of the object of that emotion, or even aid the empathiser in discovering the object of the other's emotion. The empathiser may also need to determine how the emotional state affects the way in which the other perceives the object. For example, the empathizer needs to determine which aspects of the object to focus on. Hence it is often not enough that the empathiser recognize the object toward which the other is directed, plus the bodily feeling, and then simply add these components together. Rather the empathiser needs to find the way into the loop where perception of the object affects feeling and feeling affects the perception of the object:

I cannot in all honesty even come close to understanding the state of mind or emotions felt by those who were close to Mr. Russert, and I won't pretend to.

As for a time for fighting, the death or serious illness of another person is not an excuse to hold hands and sing cumbaya. You continue the fight until you win or are beaten!

[YvonneCa]

23. You are not alone in being unable to ...

...empathize. As you shared: "...the empathiser needs to find the way into the loop where perception of the object affects feeling and feeling affects the perception of the object."

Finding 'the way into the loop' requires life experience...and some here need more of that.JMHO.

You also misunderstand what I mean by humanity. It's not 'Cumbaya' and everything is beautiful no matter the situation. What President Clinton meant was that our common humanity mattered more than that which divides us.

We will always have differences...and that's good. Fighting for what we believe in is also good...always. But it is also a part of who we are as Democrats, that we acknowledge that we have much in common as well. And we can CHOOSE to seek out our commonalities...such as being human ...rather than focus always on what divides us. PEACE.

[happydreams]

33. Pardon me if I conserve my empathy and compassion for those I care about.

All of this demand for sympathy empathy :puke: is Psy-ops to divide the anti-fascists.

[samsingh]

14. the disgusting right-wing never knows when not to fight with us.

after 911, the left stopped attacking the right. what happened?

the rightwing imbeciles starting making things up like we'd want to offer the terrorists counseling and understanding.

nevermind that the attack happened under THEIR ignorant and incompetant noses. i don't have any respect left for the right. they are a blight on humanity, disgusting, and treacherous. Look what they've done to the country and the world?

[papau]

3. Tim's "no follow-up on tough questions needed because folks will see through response" was a con

But he may actually have believed that this was true - and therefore let lies be told on his show by the right, over and over again. Indeed the fact that he did do follow ups - with multiple questions - of those on the left - more or less proves that it was a con.

But say nothing bad of the dead - so rest in peace, Tim.

[ProSense]

4. Russert is dead.

May he RIP.

Russert had his moments, good and disappointing. Claiming that Russert "utterly failed" as a journalist and burdening him with all the ills of the media, is a bit hyperbolic. This also overlooks everyone at the NYT and others, including Joe Klein, Chris Matthews and countless others in the media who actually aided the administration in significant ways. Compare Russert to Fox, which actually embodies everything that's wrong with the media and society.

From Democracy Arsenal:

Russert

Posted by The Editors

Those of us at Democracy Arsenal and National Security Network want to convey our sympathies to the family and friends of Tim Russert. We counted on his reporting and his tough questions to help illuminate some of the most important national security debates in this country. His contributions to our national debate will be missed.]

One of Russert's best interviews:

Transcript for Sept. 10: Dick Cheney

Count how many lies Cheney told in that one.

[grantcart]

5. The best and hopefully final word on Bill Russert

so good you should post it as an OP though I understand if you don't want to.

[ellacott]

7. I remember his interview with David Duke

He basically ended his politcal career with that interview. It's amazing how some of you hold him soley responsible for this war but don't hold your fellow Dem legislator in the same light. Some of them even had access to the intelligence reports and didn't read them. But it's all Tim's fault. This is what I don't understand.

There is not a person on this earth that I agree with 100%. Even those that I may have profound disagreements would I waste my time berating them once their dead.

Did any of you let Russert know how you felt when he was still alive. He's dead now so he can't hear you. The one's that can hear you are those have had a personal relationship with him and are truly grieving about his death. Many people read this board and to think that Olbermann went out of his to post his feelings on another board about the behavior of some is pretty sad.

[endarkenment]

15. "some of you hold him soley responsible for this war "

umm - uhh - I think that is total bullshit. Please point me to the du message where Russert is held solely responsible for the Iraq war. People here heaped adulation on Tim, and other people here responded - 'hey wait a second, he had some serious flaws'. The flaws have been amply documented. Don't post eulogies claiming that he was a great journalist and you won't hear from us about how he wasn't actually great at journalism, at least not over the last 8 years, and how compromised and partisan his behavior was for the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections.

p.s. Duke never had a political career outside of Louisiana, and taking down an outright nazi is not exactly a difficult task for even a mediocre journalist.

[ellacott]

18. I never called him a journalist

He wasn't a journalist. I haven't posted any eulogies claiming he was a great journalist yet I'm still hearing from you. Of course he had flaws. Everyone has flaws. It seems like everything is black or white with so many of you.

Duke was running for Govenor at the time, of Louisiana. His interest was not outside of Louisiana either. No one else had exposed him as being unqualified and it had nothing to do with him being a racist. That wasn't bad for someone who wasn't even a journalist.

[chill_wind]

29. A clear calm voice of sanity. So welcome and appreciated.

Thank you.

:hug:

[BrklynLib at work]

6. Off to the greatest page with you.

[tblue37]

8. K&R. Thanks for helping to counterbalance the hagiography. n/t

[PoliticalAmazon]

9. Uh-oh. You're in troule with the grief groupies now! n/t

[high density]

10. Key enabler of the war?

I think you may be the one on drugs.... What vote was it that Russert cast for this war again?

[TooBigaTent]

12. Every god damned day, every single time he let a Bushie lie without challenging them

and every single time he trashed or denegrated anyone who dared question the war.

You really must expand your definitions. Enabling comes in many forms on all the channels. The politicians who still support the war (and its funding) are guilty as well. If you feel like ranking the thousands (or millions) who have contributed to the war, go right ahead. rushert would be pretty high on the list, simply because he had a platform from which to shill for the Bushistas and attack those who questioned them.

[high density]

17. Once we hold the politicians accountable for what they've done...

...THEN we can go after the Tim Russerts of the world. (Preferably the ones that are alive.) Until then I see a huge gap between the people that voted for this BS and those that simply fell for the lies and jingoism. If the Democrats weren't going to be out there pouncing on this shit than Tim Russert certainly wasn't going to lead the way.

[jgraz]

25. You have it exactly backwards

There's a reason the press is the only profession directly protected by our Constitution: it's fundamental to a functioning democracy. Without an active, adversarial press, from where will your anticipated enlightenment come? Exactly who do you think was responsible for propagating the "lies and jingoism"?

The press is absolutely there to "lead the way". They don't have to tell people what to do, but they damn sure have a responsibility to tell people what's going on. Russert failed to do that, and he should not be lionized for it.

[samsingh]

13. the good nature of the left is misused by the right to further their causes

at the expense of the innocents.

the argument that 'we're no better than them is foolish - otherwise, don't defend against the next country that wants to take over yours.

[bunnies]

16. May you, upon your passing, be treated with more respect than you care to show others.

good day.

[tabasco]

20. If someone deserves scorn in life,

please explain why dying should change anything.

:shrug:

[bunnies]

22. He's not even in the ground yet.

A little respect shouldnt be too much to ask.

[tabasco]

28. I didn't respect him while alive.

Why should I respect him now that he's dead?

I expect the same for myself.

[happydreams]

32. You nailed it.

[tabasco]

19. Part of propaganda's theme is to make you like the propagandists

and trust them.

Never underestimate the power of propaganda.

It is discouraging.

[Efilroft Sul]

21. You said everything I was thinking.

And were much nicer in expressing it, too.

Russert failed the Republic as much as politicians on both sides of the aisle have.

[sniffa]

24. And the race by (too) many DUers to out-asshole each other

is par for the course.

[Sunnyshine]

26. Russert is not here to defend himself. That's the point.

Try to look at it another way. Tim was a guy of his generation. Maintaining traditional thinking is still a strong motivation for them personally. He was gullible and was a non-tough kind of guy. He liked conformity and he was accepted for it. He did have great moments, and bad ones. As do we all. Russert operated in the way he was taught to by his parents. As do most.

Sept.11 shored up the corporate influence of our press and media. I think the non-stop coverage of that traumatic event as it happened live, caused many of the older people in the press to rely upon reflexive offenses, instead of the necessary reflective defenses that objective journalists need. We all know this. The press rolled over.

TR's death is irrelevant to that widely known fact in the Blogosphere.

Tim probably felt like he was there to serve and defend this nation from his media desk. He tried to do that at times, but in other instances he appeared to give in to their expectations for towing the line. That doesn’t make him a bad guy or an accomplice to the Executive crimes of our Government.

It makes him a traditionalist. Respect for those in higher office is instilled from birth.
His job depended on it. Right or wrong, it was his life to live according to his conscience.

The MSM is still the same perplexing and corrupted entity, and those in the media who are alive and kicking and continuing to use state/corporate sponsored talking points as second rate news stories are the one's who deserve our harshest criticism.

Russert was human and he was deeply intimidated by the magnitude of those heartless moments on 9/11. The history of it is was mesmerizing to a man like him. He was doing the job that he thought was best served with honorable head nodding at the Officials who tainted his show. Tim also caught them in awkward lies, for the record. Regardless of how Tim Russert did his job according to us, or if Tim knew more than we think he did- his life was worth far more than that of his job.

In the quiet moments, I am sure he had doubts and pondered each one of those second thoughts.

Guys like Tim are not the daring investigators that we need, we all know that. No one has to say that and shout it from the rooftops. Especially when he dies suddenly and folks use his death as a convenient whipping post for the last 8 years.

NBC is still not a free press. Networks are still avoiding reporting actual news while reality based journalism is finding another public footing on the internet. The systemic problems in the standard media/press should be placed squarely at the feet of those who own and operate these agencies.

Tim was being used like many are to this day. His traditional views made it easier for them to do.

Maybe he realized this and was personally fighting his own battle in coming to terms with that. Stress is a killer they say, but I guess we will never know. To blame him for everything is short sighted torching. Tim Russert tried to do his job to the best of his learned abilities.

Nobody is perfect. Praise his love for the spirit of the American people and his ability to draw criticism to these elected leaders in their own words, not this chest pounding of those who find it convenient to blame Russert for his inability to single handedly prevent the US from being run into the ground by George Walker Bush & Company- the dictators that are still ruining this nation.

He faced them down in his own way, and he left it up to us people in the public to have the final say. If you didn't know him personally, you are unqualified to disrespect his more important contributions as a human being, a son, a husband, and a father. Enough said.

[eridani]

27. The problem is the MSM in general, not Russert in particular n/t

[MadBadger]

30. I personally thought he was tough and fair to all sides in his interviewing.

He may have focused on trivial things every so often, but would you like me to apologize for liking the guy?

[happydreams]

31. K&R

[ElsewheresDaughter]

34. he never went to journalist school.....never