WOULD CLINTON SUPPORTERS ACCEPT KATHLEEN SEBELIUS AS VEEP?

[proud2BlibKansan]

Second Best
WOULD CLINTON SUPPORTERS ACCEPT KATHLEEN SEBELIUS AS VEEP?
By Christopher Beam
Posted Friday, June 13, 2008, at 6:17 PM ET

In the fantasy baseball game known as the Veepstakes, Kathleen Sebelius appears to be the complete package. She's a popular Democratic governor in a red state. She stood up to out-of-state insurers to keep health care premiums down. She delivered the Democratic response to this year's State of the Union address. And, best of all for Barack Obama, she's a woman. What better way to win over disaffected Clinton supporters?

Or piss them off. Obama could also privatize health care forever, overturn Roe v. Wade, and order Hillary to make him a sandwich. At least that wouldn't infuriate die-hard Clinton supporters as much as making Kathleen Sebelius his running mate.

It's easy to see the logic for tapping Sebelius. Hillary Clinton put 18 million cracks in the biggest glass ceiling, as she told us in her concession speech. Why should it matter which woman shatters it? If anything, picking a woman other than Clinton reinforces the point that any woman can make it to the top.

But selecting Sebelius could backfire big time. Among the Clinton supporters I've spoken with, objections fell into four categories:

read on . . . http://www.slate.com/id/2192829/

[papau]

1. Sebelius would backfire big time - and the 12% of Hill vote loss if no VP would double

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NYC_SKP]

5. Then I guess we'll have to win by EVEN LARGER margins...yes we can!

We won't be held hostage to 310 bitter voters insisting against all reality that the nomination was stolen and insisting that four years of McCain is a good idea.

[JoFerret]

73. Amusing.

Whi is the "we"?

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. That settles it.

I've been waffley about Sebelius, but if papua thinks it's a bad idea, it MUST be a good idea.

[Labors of Hercules]

16. ha!

I'm so feeling you, bro. :toast:

[hokies4ever]

27. LOL!

:toast:

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. She is my governor and I love her

but she is far from Obama's best choice.

[chimpymustgo]

17. Sebalius is such a weak choice it would reflect badly on Obama AND piss off Hillary supportersporte

Lose-lose.

[hokies4ever]

20. At least get her name right

You might convince people that you know more about her than just what gender she is. :rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. LOL

You don't need an advanced degree to be a misogynist.

[tigervalentine]

28. You've never made a typing error?

[hokies4ever]

31. Kind of like 'Osama' and 'Obama'?

'a' and 'e' aren't next to each other on my keyboard. Oh, and you just happened to make the typo with another vowel? Haven't you learned from Dumbya's tenure as President that people don't like disingenuous truth-stretchers? :rofl:

[chimpymustgo]

30. I'd rather get the IDEA right than the spelling, dipshit.

She's one weak sister.

:rofl:

[hokies4ever]

33. So who's your favorite for V.P.?

Or do you just go around trashing other people's favorites for the Dem V.P.?

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. I don't think she's a weak choice at all; she is a GREAT governor

I just believe there are better choices for VP.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. Why do you have such a low opinion of Clinton voters?

:shrug:

[hokies4ever]

35. The OP title is the name of the article

[bunkerbuster1]

3. Wow, that's a dreadful piece

What a huge sample size--ONE!

I'm willing to entertain the notion that maybe, just maybe, there'd be some resentment among women voters if a woman other than Hillary were chosen as a running mate. But so far all I've read on the subject has been pure conjecture; and this piece is just more of the same crap.

[Overseas]

34. Here here ! I agree.

[leftofcool]

4. Probably not, but this is Obama's decision

[hokies4ever]

21. What have you done with the REAL leftofcool?

:rofl:

Just kidding with you. :patriot:

[PBS Poll-435]

6. I am voting for whatever ticket is put up.

I have no interest in Sebelius, however.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. I agree

:)

[Zenmaster]

10. I don't think Sebelius would affect Clinton supporters in any way.

Whatever percentage of Clinton supporters are going to vote for John McCain are not going to be changed by any VP selection. Hillary as VP would get some of them back, but anybody else is not going to have any impact.

Likewise, Sebelius isn't going to cause any Hillary supporters that are already backing Obama to defect.

I think she sounds great and, personally, wouldn't be opposed to it. I think there are plusses and minuses for other reasons though and I doubt she ends up the choice.

But I don't see this affecting the Hillary Clinton supporters at all. Some of them will, of course, bitch, moan and make a big fuss over this like they would of any Obama decision. But those were never going to vote for Obama anyway. Not worth worrying about.

[mystieus]

12. Agreed.

[hokies4ever]

22. Except for the surrogates actively shilling for Hillary for V.P.

[TheWraith]

11. The Clinton supporters who are still having a temper tantrum aren't going to be swayed by anything..

...Except maybe time. Most of them, though, have already moved on. I just happened to attend a local Dems party the other day: one of the local bigwigs, a long time Hillary supporter who's had his picture taken with her, was the first person to pick up an Obama bumper sticker and slap it on his vehicle, covering up the Hillary sticker.

Those 18 million aren't sticking around waiting to see what happens.

[Beacool]

13. Personally? NO!!!!!!!

I said before and I'll say it again: women are not interchangeable!!!!

If Obama wants to offer a VP position to a woman, then it should go to the person who won as many votes as he did!!!!

Would it have been OK if the situation was reversed and Hillary offered another AA politician the job and not Obama? I would think that his supporters would be offended.

How can you even ask why should it matter which woman breaks the glass ceiling???? It matter a lot to those of us who voted for ONE woman in particular.

:grr:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

74. So basically, you're saying that any woman who is not Hillary Clinton

Should be automatically disqualified because of her gender.

Seriously? That's what you're saying?

Because that's pretty goddamn fucking sexist.

[Rosemary2205]

14. I honestly do not freakin care.

I've never been one to commanded by toddlers and I doubt Obama is either.

[highplainsdem]

15. Obama would further alienate some Clinton supporters and make himself look weak.

[Labors of Hercules]

19. How would choosing Sebelius as opposed to Hill look weak?

That doesn't make any damn sense. :wtf:

[hokies4ever]

24. Agreed. If anything, the opposite is true.

Obama will look like he is weak and caves into peer pressure if he chooses Hillary as his V.P. just because some people believe she's entitled to the spot.

[highplainsdem]

37. He'd look afraid of HRC's strength, afraid to form an alliance with the rival who got approximately

as many votes as he received. And possibly afraid of being overshadowed by Bill Clinton as well.

If the situation were reversed and Clinton were the presumptive nominee, Obama supporters would expect her to ask him to be the VP, and if she didn't, they'd criticize her for turning her back on his supporters and/or being too insecure to want her strongest rival on the ticket. Nor would they consider her choosing another AA as a running mate, such as Harold Ford, at all acceptable.

[Beacool]

42. I agree with you,

but around here it's like talking to a wall. I always said that I would have expected her to ask Obama to be her VP if the situation was reversed. They both won as many votes, I expect him to at least ask her. If not, it will be duly noted by her supporters.

[musicblind]

51. I personally think he will ask her.

Obama/Hillary is head and shoulders above the best ticket and a sure win in Nov. imho.

[Beacool]

64. Like they say........

from your lips to God's ears.

[musicblind]

68. I hope so. I really do.

I have even prayed about it, because I want us to win in November. I think a lot of people on here who bash the idea of an Obama/Hillary ticket are just bitter or they are coming to the table with a preconditioned and unjustified hatered of Hillary. (for whatever reason)

[Labors of Hercules]

69. I don't hate Hillary.

I don't appreciate the things she said and did in her campaign. I think she lost fair and square and I can think of several people who would be a better VP for Obama than she would, nor would I rather see her as VP than Senate Majority Leader.

That's what I think about Hillary, and if you don't like it you can feel free to

[musicblind]

71. your response was going pretty nice

as you expressed your point of view. Though I don't agree with it. I do think Hillary would be the best VP choice. If they absolutely cannot pick her (which I think will hurt the race but not cripple it) then I would prefer Edwards or Biden. But I do, honestly believe she will help him if he picks her.

But like I was saying. Your response was going pretty nice till you told me to talk to your hand. That was rude. I am sorry if my post above came off as rude to you. I really did not mean it to, but it may have been. So I am sorry. I am just so perplexed why other people think Hillary as VP would sink Obama's ticket when it seems to me that it would help the ticket. I am not suggesting it because I think she should have won the primary. I would not suggest ANYTHING at this point if I did not think that it would help Obama get elected. Taking back the White House is of the utmost importance. I just strongly believe that Hillary as VP will help with that. She is a good person, and a great compliment to Obama. She has a lot of popularity and doesn't have to be "introduced". It would do a lot for the ticket BESIDES just smooth the feathers of her fans.

We shall see. I wont hate Obama no matter what VP choice he makes. But I do think that Hillary would be the wisest. :)

[Labors of Hercules]

72. I was kidding about the hand thing...

I have some fundamental constitutional issues with Hillary Clinton, and I have a problem with the fact that 22 year old people in this Country were not ALIVE when there was a president with a name other than Bush or Clinton.

I think we need new blood, new charisma and a new way of doing things, Kennedy style.

[beac]

80. What about all the ammo she gave to McCain with her

"CIC threshold" and other comments? If she'd wanted to keep the door open for VP, she should have treated her Dem opponent with more respect than she treated the GOP nominee. It was SO inconceivable to her that she could lose the nomination, that she torpedoed her own chances for the #2 spot. We can't have a VP nom whose own words can be so powerfully used to discredit our candidate.

I don't hate Hillary, but her OWN lack of ability to forsee and plan for alternate scenarios disqualifies her in my book.

[beac]

78. Brava, sister, brava!

I couldn't agree more!

[RaleighNCDUer]

65. You must be kidding.

After all she said disparaging his ability, his qualifications, his 'readiness' WHY would she ever pick him? "He is completely unprepared to be president, and the perfect choice to fill my seat if something happens to me in office". Huhhh???

He has no reason to fear her strength - just her duplicity and backstabbing. Put her in charge of Heath & Human Services, where the damage she can do will be minimized.

[Danger Mouse]

25. I doubt it'd be a big problem, but I don't know that she's the best choice, either.

[tigervalentine]

26. I can't figure out why Sebelius is supposed to be such

a strong VP candidate. Obama himself is still being introduced to quite a bit of the country. Why have to introduce the VP also?

She has national security creds? No. She's a Dem. Yes. What else?

Just being a woman and governor of Kansas doesn't seem like enough of a recommendation for the job. And the real job is getting Obama elected in the first place. Let's get the strongest candidate--Male or Female--we can find.

[hokies4ever]

29. A couple of points:

First, introducing the country to your V.P. has historically been a positive thing. I can't claim ownership to this idea, because I overheard it on MSNBC when Chuck Todd was talking on a panel with some other pundits. Turns out that in the past candidates get a decent media bump when they choose a lesser known candidate as opposed to a previous adversary in the primary race.

You also overlook the fact that Obama has essentially said that he plans to choose whoever is best able to help him govern. He's said that his V.P. choice will send a message as to how he wants to run his administration. An analysis of Sebelius clearly shows that she fits this bill. Her governorship is the embodiment of Obama's political message. Bipartisan politics, digging her state out of debt while furthering her agenda, responsible governing, standing up to special interests, etc. It's no wonder why he would consider her as a V.P. even though she is lacking in foreign policy credentials. Also, it's not like Obama won't have a Secretary of Defense you know. I do think that Biden or Clark would be a better choice, but Sebelius is definitely qualified for the job as well.

[tigervalentine]

38. Didn't say she wasn't necessarily qualified.

Just said we should get the BEST.

[hokies4ever]

41. Don't you mean 'he should get the best'?

After all, it is Obama's decision you know. Don't believe the hype about some people being entitled to it.

[Lilith Velkor]

32. FOR THE 5000TH FUCKING TIME, NO!

Of course, this means they'll probably pick her just to show they don't care what Clinton supporters think.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

75. So, other than Hillary Clinton, female prospects should be automatically disqualified? nt

[Writer]

36. I might not.

There's something about it that feels sort of patronizing and consolatory.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

39. no

[apocalypsehow]

40. The time to worry about what the boosters want is over: Obama is the nominee and should choose who

he wants. If Clinton supporters care so little about women's issues that they'll be unwilling to vote for the Democratic nominee because of who he choose to be his VP, then the hell with them.

[Beacool]

43. Unity much?????????

:rofl:

[davidpdx]

45. Wow

This coming from someone who continually rips our nominee. That's ironic.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[apocalypsehow]

47. Think about women's issues much?

As in Roe v. Wade, specifically? And how many Supreme Court Justices the next President will get to appoint? Or whether U.S. Government birth control policy will continue to be dictated by the theological whims of such as Pat Robertson and Gary Bauer? Or...(do I really need to go on? Really?).

:eyes:

[Beacool]

48. The thread is about Sebelius and whether Hillary's supporters see her as a viable choice..

It's not about anyone saying that they may not vote for Obama.

[apocalypsehow]

49. Then we'll all expect to see no more "Unity Much????" snark from you, right?

Since you're on the same team as the rest of us in the "unity" sense of you're voting for the Democratic nominee in November, right? Right?

In other words, you recognize that is incumbent upon the side that bows out to "unify" with the side that prevailed to win the ultimate victory over the Republicans in the Fall, right? Right?

Thanks (if so).

[hokies4ever]

79. Preach it apocalypsehow!

You're quickly becoming one of my favorite posters! Love it when you stick the snarkies back with their own snark! :rofl:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

61. "The hell with the electorate" is not an attitude that wins elections.

Bringing a small-but-perfectly-formed group of voters to the polls doesn't work; Obama needs the support of as many people as he can get, whether or not either you or he like them.

For Clinton supporters not to back Obama may be cutting off their noses to spite their faces, but your nose will go with them too.

[JCMach1]

44. Anyone looking for a good nap will adore her

:eyes:

[hokies4ever]

50. I think she was just trying to strike a unity tone in her SOTU response

I've heard some of her other speeches which are more lively.

[SeattleGirl]

52. Would someone PLEASE tell me why she would be a good VP?

My question is NOT a knock on her. Rather, I ask because I don't know enough about her. My main exposure to her was her response to one of Bush's Saturday radio addresses, and frankly, I found her to be weak and uninspiring in her response.

But....

I see a lot of people on DU who would like to see her as Obama's VP choice.

So, those of you who do support her, please tell me what you think is good about her.

Again, not a knock on her.

Just an honest question.

[TheKentuckian]

53. I'm sorry

I can understand being utterly bent out of shape over a policy disagreement or having distinct philosophies but I simply cannot relate to being so upset because of personality.

As Democrat, I am extremely disappointed in Hillary for trashing our entire process. She has done considerable damage to the concept of proportional delegates which is much more reflective of the vote of the people. She sought to change the rules in midstream, when she had never protested them before. She rabble roused and did damage to the party with the whole Florida/Michigan fiasco, again playing the role of opportunistic hypocrite. She continued to draw fresh blood to undermine the prospective nominee even after she had been effectively eliminated (see IN/NC primaries). She and her surrogates have brought into question the legitimacy of the entire party.
I'm nearly equally disappointed in the supporters who allowed themselves to be whipped into a frenzy and throw logic out the window.

She's about 2 inches from Lieberman as far as I'm concerned right now. Still, there is that two inches so if by hook or crook Hillary is the nominee I'd vote for her in November because I understand her agenda is closer to mine than McCain's and that a vote for McCain is a vote against America, The Constitution, and the concepts of liberty and equality.

My first choice has never been the nominee except for Gore (which was obvious), but I've never threw a fit and got behind the guy that was to do his best to guide the country in the direction I believe it should. How can the person mean more than the ideals they stand for?

[Donkey_Punch_Dubya]

56. What was the point of this post?

Please don't talk to anyone who was a HRC fan in the primaries to "convince" them to vote for Obama. It will only make things worse for Obama, who I badly want to see elected this fall.

[Chovexani]

54. No.

[dems_rightnow]

55. He can choose who he wants...

... and it will have very little negative impact on the ticket.

[Maureen1322]

57. If Obama feels he has to pick a woman to garner the female vote.

why wouldn't he pick Hillary Clinton? It doesn't matter to me as far as my vote goes, but if he picks Sebilus it would feel like someone stuck a pacifier in my mouth.

[shayes51]

58. My thoughts exactly.

[Phillycat]

59. Because she too has a vagina?

You know we liked Hillary for other reasons besides her girl parts, right?

[NorthCarolina]

60. If it's the choice of VP that has the potential to make it or break it for Clinton supporters

then I would say forget about trying to appease them any more. They're either with the Democratic ticket regardless of who the VP pick is or they're not. That's a decision they alone will have to make, and they alone will have to live with.

[jgraz]

81. Now that the primary is over, there are no longer any "Clinton supporters"

There are Obama supporters and there are Republicans. End of story.

[sentelle]

62. my opinion

I don't think Sebelius is a particularly effective speaker. With that in mind, I believe Obama should choose who he believes to be the best candidate for VP. While he is not my favorite candidate, he is more in line wih my core beliefs than any one that is still in the race.

To be honest, I really don't understand the fuss some of the Clinton supporters are making. Clinton has conceeded. She is no longer in the race.

To those who say clinton ought to be the VP pick, consider this: this is no longer a primary fight, a election of similarly minded people, but of two men who take divergant positions in most issues.

In terms of the primaries, the defining moment to me was the Clinton/Obama interviews on 60 minutes. While most of their policies are similar, the personalities are far different. In that interview, one candidate discussed what American people need: us out of Iraq, healthcare, better control over our energy needs. The other talked about why it was about them. My wife told me the same thing.

Hillary is nothing if not ruthlessly effective. Unfortunately for her, it seems like the only bullet in her gun. I'd wished to see something approaching a personal side, and a vision from her, much as Mr. Clinton demonstrated in his 92 campaign. This turned me off. It almost felt like she was daring others to not vote for her, so she could call down the wrath of god on them.

I don't get that from Obama. And while he is a good orator, I do question his pro-corporate, moderate views, which have made him undistinguished in the Senate.

Ultimately though, cynical politics aside, it comes down to issues: environment, Iraq, the economy, abortion, social issues. the candidates are clear, the lines drawn. I'm voting for the one closest to my values, and the one with vision. Not the one with flashbacks.

[CatnHat]

63. What a Joke!

[paulk]

67. I don't really see what she brings to the ticket

No one knows who she is, outside of the junkies who pay attention to this sort of thing - Obama is an unknown also, who is going to be focusing on introducing himself to the General Election public - I would think he'd choose a VP with name recognition to avoid the chore of having to introduce both a Presidential candidate and a VP.

I don't even think she could bring Kansas with her.

Many Clinton supporters would see it as a slap in the face - after all the work Hillary put into this race, choosing an unknown like Sebelius would be seen by many as a sign of disrespect. If anyone has earned the right to be the first female VP, it's Hillary.

[Sans Givingadamn]

70. war! war! fight!

fight! war!

[JoFerret]

76. Some mighty twisted logic going on here

Some strange assumptions about what motivates the people who admire and respect Clinton.
If sebelius can be a clinton substitute, stand-in, whatever...in the same kind of thinking....who could 'stand-in' for obama and be acceptable?

I am not expressing this well but the question is offensive.

Personally I think Clinton would be an excellent choice for VP but I am not sure she would want the job. I rather hope she does not.

[MrSlayer]

77. Clinton supporters are Democrats, it doesn't matter who he picks.

And the few that will actually hold their breath until they die were never really Democrats to begin with. We're supposed to be the smart ones, the mature, forward-thinking ones. We're the ones who get mocked for favoring reason and science over blind faith, emotion or dogma. I do think a lot of people that supported Clinton are hurt, I'm still hurt over General Clark's primary loss in 2004, but they still have to vote for the Democratic nominee because the alternative is diametrically opposed to everything they ostensibly believe in. This whole thing with "Will Obama's/Clinton's supporters accept so and so" is silly and childish. We're all going to accept whomever is picked because we're Democrats and the ones that do not, are not. You don't have to fuck these people, you don't have to have them over for dinner and you don't have to particularly like them, you just have to vote for them because they are better than the other party.