Any woman who supports John McCain is a traitor to their gender.

[Drunken Irishman]

As harsh as it sounds, it is true and I'm not afraid to say it.

This has nothing to do with the Supreme Court or John McCain's history of voting against women's rights. This has nothing to do with abortion, but everything to do with the Republican sleeze campaign, backed by John McCain, against Michelle Obama. This is the same crap they threw at Hillary Clinton in 1992 and no self-respecting woman should ever stand for that type of slime.

I know what you're thinking, how dare a man tell me this. But it's true and I'd like to think we are all in this together. It took women and men to fight for civil rights and it took men and women to fight for equal rights. In the end, the battle is not between men and women, it's between Us and Them. John McCain and the Republican Party are Them and we must do everything in our power to make sure They do not win. Because if they do, We will have failed.

The Republican Party has a history of attacking strong, outspoken women and We can't support that type of hate and if John McCain wins, it will send the perception that a woman's place is behind her husband and not out in front of the mic. That's not the world I want my future children growing up in and that is why we must succeed. Succeed for Hillary Clinton and Eleanor Roosevelt. Succeed for every woman who has voiced their opinion and been slammed for it. Michelle Obama is an amazing lady who speaks her mind and in 21st Century America, that should be lauded, not condemned.

[Mz Pip]

1. That crazy woman

who supported Hillary and now supports McCain, last name is Christian (there's irony in there somewhere) has become the darling of Fox News. She's a traitor to more than just her gender. I think she's actually kind of crazy.

[newmajority]

4. Has anyone confirmed yet that she is NOT actually Lynn Samuels from "Sirius Left" radio?

They sound pretty much the same to me. And Lynn doesn't belong on a Liberal radio channel anymore than Harriet does.

[Cleita]

7. Are you talking about the conservative Christian, Moonie, Scientology

news channel? Nothing crazy there. :crazy:

Oh, I forgot to add :sarcasm:

[hokies4ever]

24. Harriett Christian

"inadequate black male" lady is DEFINITELY crazy

[QueenOfCalifornia]

33. Shut up!

Harriet Christian - a white woman living in Manhattan has somehow become the new third class citizen. I guess that makes me a fifth class hobo.

[hokies4ever]

34. Anyone who calls Obama an "inadequate black male" in front of TV cameras

and leaves her name for the reporters deserves to be vilified. She's part of the static America Obama talked about during his race speech in Philly. Harriet Christian, please step aside while the rest of us pick up your slack and move this country forward! :patriot:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

51. Did you read my sarcastic post?

You must not be familiar with me. Did you read my whole post or just the subject line?

[Kahuna]

38. You need to chill. nt

[QueenOfCalifornia]

50. WTF?

I mean do you not understand sarcasm?

And did you bother to read the posts above mine?????

[1Hippiechick]

57. Easy fix- go back and add the SARCASM SMILEY -

[mkultra]

61. you need to read

[MichiganVote]

2. Oh...ok, thanks for the public service message. And now women will return to do what they do best...

whatever the hell they want when they want. I loathe McSame myself, but I will respect the right of every American to vote how ever they choose.

[Drunken Irishman]

5. Uh huh.

So you'll respect someone who votes against Obama because he's black? Would you have respected someone who voted against Hillary Clinton because she was a woman?

I don't get what you're trying to say here. I don't think I could respect a person who voted for David Duke, but maybe that's just me.

It's their right to vote for whomever they want, but it doesn't mean I have to respect their choice.

[MichiganVote]

6. You may not respect their choice and that is your choice.

But I still respect their right, anyone's right to vote how ever they choose.

[Drunken Irishman]

8. Am I trying to take that right away?

I don't recall saying we should purge the votes from women who vote McCain. I do believe women who vote for McCain, after the obvious slimeball attacks on Michelle Obama, are betraying their gender.

[MichiganVote]

10. Can you take that right away? Would you if you could?

Seems to me, by your logic, men who choose not vote for Obama after the slimeball attacks on him are also guilty of betraying their gender.

Or have you decided that women are somehow worse in some way..........

[Drunken Irishman]

13. I think men who vote against Obama are betraying their gender too.

However, men aren't going to lose anything with a McCain presidency, at least not at the level women could.

And no, I would not take their right away to vote for McCain, I'll just openly call them pathetic pieces of shit.

I do not respect any person who could back McCain. Male, female, black or white. However, I think it's far worse when women support McCain, because they have more at stake in this election -- for their personal rights and actions -- than men. The GOP wants to push women to the back and voting for McCain and their style of politics endorses that action. I can't respect anyone who would ever do that, whether directly or not.

[MichiganVote]

15. pathetic pieces of shit. Yeah, that's helpful. So, ok, nice talking to ya'

Time for bed for me.

[Drunken Irishman]

16. I call it as I see it.

I've yet to meet a decent McCain supporter.

[emilyg]

22. My ex - a very decent man

supports Mc.

[Drunken Irishman]

28. Then I don't think he's very decent.

Sorry, but I don't think any decent person can support McCain with what he stands for. That's their right, but it's also my right to complain about it.

[emilyg]

30. Of course yiou have a right.

I don't think a person's political affiliation makes one decent/or not. So much more to each person. My ex is a bone marrow specialist. He has saved many lives. For me that's decent.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DevonRex]

60. They're either ignorant or haven't a soul. IMHO. nt

[MichiganVote]

67. They may be ignorant but the souless are the current inhabitants in the WH

[emilyg]

21. Did you feel the same way when

Clinton was attacked?

[Drunken Irishman]

27. Yup.

[PoliticalAmazon]

56. ITA. However, there are many GOP women who are going to vote for Obama...

McCain is so wrong on issues that impact women, even the GOP women will vote for him.

[MichiganVote]

66. There are scores of women who will vote against McSame, even if they are not enthused about Obama.

[mkultra]

62. so they are traitors with rights.

[MichiganVote]

65. You may mischaracterize them as traitors but they are voters under the law.

[emilyg]

20. Thank you. I vote as I please.

The rest of you - carry on.

[TahitiNut]

25. I agree. As one who was called a "traitor to his race" and "n_____-lover" in the past ...

... I'm appalled at ANY suggestion that someone has a race-based or gender-based 'obligation' to vote in some specified manner. As a liberal, I vote for justice and equity. Period.

[Drunken Irishman]

29. Question...

Don't you think supporting a racist would be close to betraying black men and women?

I believe McCain is a sexist. Anyone who calls his wife a c*nt is a sexist and I don't see how women can support him. Just like I don't see how black people could support someone like David Duke. Or gay men support someone like Rick Santorum.

[TahitiNut]

32. Someone else's choice isn't dependent upon whether you (or I) "can see how" they would.

I'm just not inclined to ASSIGN others to some category and then DECIDE how that category should behave in ANY fashion. I'm steadfast in asserting that all forms of human objectification are wrong. When we assign others to CATEGORIES ("types"), we've engaged in treating them as items in some warehouse. Treating human beings, including ourselves, as mere means to some ends instead of an end in themselves, in my ethical view, is wrong.

I really don't know how to say it any more clearly.

Insofar as McCain is concerned, I don't know how most folks would vote for him, given my understanding of some minimal core set of common values and principles. It has almost nothing to do with their race, gender, religion, national origin, or ethnicity. It certainly has nothing to do what what *I* believe their race, gender, religion, national origin, or ethnicity might be or how they associate themselves in that regard. Nobody has an obligation to conform to *my* perceptions. At least not until I achieve godhood - and probably not even then.

[Drunken Irishman]

37. Then you and I completely disagree here.

I think anyone who would vote against their own interests is betraying their entire interest. I feel if you're gay and you're voting for an anti-gay bigot who is openly against gays, you're sending your entire people up the river. I got into a fight with my father because he voted for a Republican who essentially backed the idea of busting unions and because of that, his job was lost. He hasn't voted Republican since.

If women are voting for McCain, they are selling out the women's cause. If gays vote for McCain, they're hurting the entire gay movement and if blue collar voters vote for McCain, well they better hope and pray it's not their job shipped to some foreign land.

So yes, I reserve the right to call out any person who decides to send all of us up stream. If a man is voting for McCain, then I must believe he has no issue with him calling his wife a c*nt and that concerns me. If a gay person is voting for McCain, then I must believe he or she does not have any interest in advancing the cause of gay rights. If a woman votes for McCain, well then I guess they're content with the way things are. That's their right, of course, but it's MY right to complain about it.

[Darth_Kitten]

41. Yup!!!

:)

[DebJ]

3. a traitor to the species

[lastliberalintexas]

9. Any human who supports McCain is a traitor to their race

Any person who has to work for a living who supports McCain is a traitor to their class. I don't think women are somehoe subject to special scrutiny on this one. :shrug:

[Drunken Irishman]

11. Oh they're not, but...

But we're being told over and over again women won't back Obama. Well, just sayin'.

[lastliberalintexas]

12. I think that, rather than attack women, we should attack the media spreading that lie

Polls are consistently showing women breaking for Obama in numbers similar to other Dem candidates of the past, so I'd rather that we go after the actual wrongdoer rather than the fall, um, guy. :)

[Drunken Irishman]

14. I've talked about the media.

But I do believe there are women, sadly, who will vote for McCain over Obama. If they do vote against Obama, it could hurt him in the general.

[lastliberalintexas]

17. But those women tend to support the things he does

There are also men who will vote for McCain, gays and lesbians who will vote for McCain, Blacks, Hispanics and other Latinos who will vote for McCain. They are all apt to lose just as much as women with another republican in the white house. You think men aren't affected by the loss of reproductive rights, or even more tax cuts for millionaires, or even less regulation on corporate excesses?

As idiotic as I might think it is, if a voter believes that abortion should be criminalized, the Islamofascists are going to kill us in our beds, that estate taxes should be elimiated, that capital gains taxes should be elimiated or at least lowered, that Social Security should be privatized and that Christian prayer should be mandated in all schools, then why the heck would that voter NOT vote for McCain? And who cares if the voter happens to be female, if those are her beliefs then she is voting for the person closest to her in this election.


Again, the special derision for women voters was not necessary.

[Drunken Irishman]

18. And they're all betraying themselves, their children, family and friends.

Gays, blacks, whites, they all are. I bring up women because I believe they have the most to lose in this election. It's not just their rights, but it's the belief women should shut up, sit down and smile for their husbands. It's the mindset that was set in motion so long ago and one I thought we shook, but obviously haven't. These women are making it a far worse world for their daughters and I wish someone would tell them directly to their faces. It's sick, it's pathetic and I'm pissed about it.

But whatever, I believe it is important to make this a woman issue because of that very reason. Maybe you do not believe this election will impact them more than it will men, but I do believe it will. Men aren't going to lose anything with a McCain presidency. We have our rights, we're already seen as being at the top of the social ladder -- especially white men. However, women will lose a lot under a McCain presidency. So calling out men does no good, because while I believe they are betraying maybe their children and the working men, it can't compare to how women will be betraying their fellow female friends if they back McCain.

[lastliberalintexas]

19. I am a woman, this election doesn't change the sexism of our society either way

Regardless of what happens in the political arena, women will still be subject to harassment and discrimination not occasioned on men. I guess that being a female tells me something different than you. I've experienced discrimination during Democratic and republican presidents' tenure, so I really can't see how that is an argument either way. And an Obama victory does not make the misogynists disappear, it only makes them more subtle.


And I disagree that women have more to lose, since men also run the risk of losing control over their procreation as well. Roe isn't the end game for the fundies, Griswold is. And while a 60 year old woman with a younger trophy husband is likely infertile, the same can't be said of the 60 year old male with the younger trophy wife.

In fact, I think that many men have been far too complacent or downright AWOL in the reproductive rights wars because of the very thinking you have expressed. It's about darn time that they realize that women aren't the only ones affected by unwanted or unplanned pregnancies and it's about time that THEY vote accordingly. Women have been voting Dem for some time now. Remind me again which demographic is the most loyal republican voting bloc there is? Yeah, nobody that you called out in this thread, is it?

[Drunken Irishman]

26. I'm not saying it will change, but it will set us back.

Just as I think electing George Bush set back many minority groups (I know, females aren't the minority).

But in the end, I believe women have more at stake than men. You may disagree, but this is how I see it. However, I don't think you're getting my point. It isn't about men, because it's not men fighting sexism. It isn't men having to worry about being shot down because of their gender. It isn't men who don't have control over their bodies. It isn't men who are being paid lower wages. It isn't men who are being told to stay at home and raise a family. Those men who vote Republican are voting against their interests as well, but not to the degree as women and that's because men essentially have it all.

Nothing is easier than being a white male from ages 35-50 in the United States.

[nycdemocratico]

23. McCain divorced his wife when she had cancer

And while she loved him and showed him devotion.

He's heartless and hates women.

[grantcart]

35. she had an automobile accident not cancer

you may be thinking of Newt

Its hard to keep these asses straight.

[barack the house]

31. The fate of the world is in former Hillary supporters hands. The world is counting on them to do ...

the right thing.

[Skittles]

36. that type of hate WAS supported - in the primary AND on DU

lots of us women know HATE - WHEREVER we see it

[JTFrog]

39. Bullshit. Sexism was the new "wolf" in this primary.

People who always pull the "sexist" card are like the boy who cried wolf. When the wolf really comes(and he showed his ugly head several times), nobody will listen.

[Darth_Kitten]

42. Oh please, you still don't get it.

Sexism exists, deal with it.

[JTFrog]

43. I didn't deny it existed.

I've been dealing with it all my life. Perhaps you should try reading again.

To claim that DU is a promoter and cheerleader of sexism and hatred toward women completely validates the "cry wolf" syndrome.

[Darth_Kitten]

45. Read your own post.

Promoter and cheerleader of sexism? Major projection?

[JTFrog]

48. Read the claim made in the post I responded to.

The poster claimed that sexism and hatred toward women was supported on DU.

WTF?

[WinkyDink]

44. That could accurately be said re: ANY Republican.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

46. I'm trying to figure out why this thread isn't closed.

I started a thread urging folks who cannot bring themselves to vote for McSame or Obama to go to the polls and cast votes for the "down ticket." I didn't call anyone "traitors" or any kind of name. I didn't insult anyone or question their allegiance to their party, country, gender or race. I simply stated that they should not punish the Democratic party by staying home.

My thread was closed. Why? I was accused of flame-baiting.

And yet this thread stays open, even though it is insulting to women and some Hillary Clinton supporters who vowed to either vote for McSame or stay home.

I'm totally disgusted that this thread, seemingly more insulting, isn't closed while mine was.

I challenge anyone to demonstrate how my thread constituted flame-baiting and yet this one is allowed to thrive when it is clearly divisive and offensive.

[bunnies]

58. "folks who cannot bring themselves to vote for Obama"

and you wonder why your thread was locked? Really?

[Apollo11]

47. Shouldn't that be "a traitor to her gender"?

Seeing as how the subject of the sentence is "any woman"?

I hate to see incorrect grammar here on Democratic Underground.

[Beacool]

49. You are overreaching.

Republican women are not traitors to their gender, they just have different political views than our own.

Having said that, it was despicable when the right went after Hillary in a vicious & personal way and it's just as despicable if they now go after Michelle.

Then again, I've seen here the same tactics used against Hillary this primary season that the RW has been using for years to go after her. Heck, I even remember whole articles, cartoons, etc. culled directly from RW sites.

Let's respect all women, even those who disagree with us.

[Drunken Irishman]

52. Not Republican women, supporters of McCain.

I believe there are Republican men who are, in fact, not sexist. However, John McCain is not only sexist, but he's allowing the Republican party to run a campaign against Michelle Obama because she's blunt and speaks her mind.

No woman should ever vote for a man who calls his wife a c*nt and one who leaves his first wife because she became less attractive to him.

[Beacool]

53. You said "any woman" , thanks for the clarification.

I just don't believe that all women are obligated to follow the same drummer. Each woman will go whichever way is best suited to her needs and beliefs.

Take care!

[yardwork]

54. This is really getting dull. For the last time - there is no movement of Women Supporting McCain!

Every woman I know is planning to vote for Obama. Anyone who doesn't wasn't ever going to vote Democratic.

You're getting all upset about an internet myth perpetrated by the Republicans to cause division among Democrats. Forget about it. It's a non-issue. Really.

[1Hippiechick]

55. LOVE your post! Right on!

[GihrenZabi]

59. Please

Saying that someone is betraying their entire gender just on account of a political stance is fucking ignorant. Such massive generalizations are just polemical and utterly devoid of any sort of useful content when it comes to political debate.

The fact that the statement comes from a man, who is therefore the least-qualified person to make ANY sort of pronouncement in regards to what it means to "stand for the female gender" just makes this even more worthless.

Part of being a liberal, or progressive, or just an educated or intelligent person (which a good liberal or progressive usually is), is not making these sorts of sweeping generalizations.

If you want to make ridiculous statements feel free, that's your right - but please, spare the more discerning readers and those of us who would prefer to have serious, meaningful political conversation/debate any attempt to justify or rationalize the comment. Just spew it out there and be done with it.

K? Thx.

[JoFerret]

63. Essentialist thinking

is probably as bad as nationalism.

[Evergreen Emerald]

64. Unfortunately, the way women have been treated of late

many women feel they have nowhere to turn and are about feed up. Betrayed by the party they thought was for women's rights and looking for the best of the worst.

I can see where disenchanted women will do an FU to take a stand. Just like people who said they would NEVER vote for Clinton if she were the nominee, or like those who voted for Nader as a protest vote.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

68. no she's just nucking futs!