DU's "concern" trolls need to wake up! Obama is the BEST candidate not the PERFECT candidate. . .

[wndycty]

. . .and absolutely NO ONE is the perfect candidate.

I'm not happy with Obama's positions on the FISA bill, gay marriage and others however, I'm very happy and inspired by his overall vision for this country. I'm impressed with his intelligence, leadership abilities and ability to bring folks together.

I see a lot of "concern" around here and if its legit then I have no problem with it, but I think much of this "concern" is more about trying to make us 2nd guess our choice and undermine the spirit of the movement behind him.

There is no perfect candidate. You name a candidate, I will name a "concern" I and others would have about that same candidate. If I dissect Obama on every issue even I will have my "concerns" about him, but we are electing a total package here.

Feel free to critique and question Obama it is important and necessary (this is not attempt to shut folks up), but also question your own motivation for expressing "concern" in a manner that often comes off as excuse for not supporting him.

[parasim]

1. Totally agree.

It's easy to get all caught up in the so-called "greatness" of Obama. But really, he's just a politician. Happens to be a good one, but that doesn't mean that he walks on water.

on edit: I also agree with you that Clark would be an excellent VP choice...

[wndycty]

3. Thanks and I hope folks understand that I'm not saying he is above criticism. . .

. . .I'm merely saying that I'm as "concerned" about the motivation and method of "concern" as the concern trolls are about the issues they raise.

[chimpymustgo]

37. Just "concerned" about the Consitution. But that's no biggie anymore, it seems - even here.

We have a higher purpose - getting our leader elected. Meet the new boss!

[The Doctor.]

77. Well, there are the idiots that say they 'will not vote for him' out of "concern".

That just tells me that they are either; a)Plug fucking stupid for choosing a woman-hating warmonger by default, or b) Trolls.

I'd really like to see the 'wailing despair' and 'concern' crowd grow up and realize just how awesome it will be to have a GOOD POTUS in office, and how all their 'concern' only helps McCain.

[sendero]

16. And let's not forget..

.... if he isn't a GOOD politician, John McCain will take the white house.

"GOOD" politicians have to compromise, period.

Not on everything, some thing cannot be compromised, but the stuff folks are getting upset about here, well, some people just refuse to live in the real world.

[The Doctor.]

78. AMEN.

In the real world, we have a choice between 'Good' (possibly 'Great'), and disasterous.

[tekisui]

2. Yep. There is no such thing as a perfect candidate.

There is no such thing as a candidate that agrees with YOU 100% of the time.

The "Perfect Candidate" would be imperfect in that they wouldn't win.

Obama is good. He has coattails and will bring movement towards change. For me, it's about the New Majority.

[MBS]

4. thank you for your mature attitude

. . all too rare lately. Would like to see THIS become a movement!

[griffi94]

5. while there are going to be some issues

that i will disagree with obama on, it's a bit depressing that one of these is the FISA bill.
imo issues that undermine the constitution are more substantial than whether or not i agree with his positions on energy or
gay marriage.
we democrats screamed bloody murder when the repubs lockstepped with shrub, never holding him accountable, and constantly making excuses for him.

i realize that obama has to start running at least somewhat to the right if he wants to win in november, but opting into a broken system
devoid of principles doesn't imo make things any better. it just puts a different group of scallywags in charge.

i understand that for many democrats any win will do just now, however i think that mentality is what got us to where we are.
compromising the constitution should never be ok, even if the other side is worse.

[NorthCarolina]

6. I'm not with him at all on "Gay Marriage" because

he's against it. I'm also not so inspired by his "vision" for health care that revolves around "for-profit insurance". I believe Kucinich would have been a much better choice for America, but once again given the typical scenario of voting for the lesser of two evils, Obama will get my vote.

[wndycty]

13. Lesser of two evils? What makes Obama evil?

His opposition to the war?

His support of a woman's right to choose?

His desire to repeal Bush's tax cuts?

His desire to make sure that Americans have access to healthcare?

His desire to help students pay for college?

What makes him so evil? He has a lot of faults but EVERY candidate did. Even your God Kucinich has faults.

[NorthCarolina]

17. It's called a figure of speech

and has been the status quo for every election I have ever been of age to participate in, and that's been plenty. By the way, Kucinich isn't my "God", but he is clearly a far far better Representative of "the people" and the "Constitution" than either of the two candidates running.

[wndycty]

22. The people, the ones who voted believe Obama, followed by Hillary was the better

Representative of them and the "Constitution."

I love and have much respect for Kucinich, this isn't one of those situations where support for one candidate, means disrespect for another.

[Windy]

35. Kucinich could NEVER win the white house. Sorry. I like him, but its a fact that

he would have no shot of winning the general.

[NorthCarolina]

36. This is America

I thought everyone had an equal chance......

[wndycty]

38. He did, he ran twice and he lost...he exercised that right, impressed folks who supported him. . .

. . .and folks who supported others. He ran good races, but came up short. The fact that he lost does not mean America is not being America or that there is something wrong. The fact that he lost twice means both times the majority of Democrats felt someone else was better qualified.

[NorthCarolina]

43. Do you really think he got a fair shake by the media?

We see what we have now on both sides of the coin.

[wndycty]

46. Well you do realize when this race started Hillary was the presumptive nominee. . .

. . .we were told that Obama couldn't even get the Black vote. Obama is an extremely strong organizer he did the work necessary to win. The work necessary to put him in the position to win. Kucinich didn't even lodge a serious effort in Iowa. Could Kucinich have been treated better by the press? Absolutely, but what did he do to command it?

You actually have to look at the mechanics of the campaign, see what was necessary see what actions he needed to take. If you don't mobilize folks, if you don't raise money, if you don't build a network its hard to be pissed when the media ignores you.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

45. He did not run good races.

He ran exceedingly poor races, failing even to place staff in most of the critical early primary states, then demanded that he be given a platform equal to those who at the very least made a basic effort to compete.

[wndycty]

47. Exactly, I respect Kucinich, but he did not do the basic things necessary to be taken seriously. . .

. . . you can blame the MSM all day, but Kucinich bears a ton of responsibility for his fate.

[polmaven]

64. In all fairness,

"Lesser of two evils" ia a widely used saying.

And, I saw the poster say that Kucinich was his or her candidate of choice. I did NOT see any indication that the poster considered him his "God".

[SwampG8r]

63. im all for gay marriage

i wonder what they will call the married gay folks tho
my experience is "gay"will no longer apply

[MyNameGoesHere]

7. thanks for your concern about the concerned.

I will make it clear. I am not concerned, i am OUTRAGED that he would vote yes on this FISA bill. No concern here just outrage.

[wndycty]

11. I'm not defending his position on the FISA bill but what I am saying is that NO MATTER who we. . .

. . .nominated we would have had "concerns" with that candidate on any number of issues.

[MyNameGoesHere]

Good because to defend the

indefensible is just insanity. He is the nominee and by god he better make better choices. Abandoning the constitution is not what i can defend period. No excuses.

[wndycty]

24. Another candidate may have made the right choice on this and the wrong choice on other issues. . .

. . .and you know it. For many of us those other issues might be just as important if not more important than the FISA bill.

There is no perfect candidate.

[MyNameGoesHere]

28. Since when is a basic right granted by the constitution a "issue"?

No i want my leaders and my nominee to defend and uphold the constitution and institute issues that are important. There is a huge difference. I am for Obama, but when he had a chance to really really define himself, he chose the follow the sheep approach. yes i understand why, but he is the nominee of change. He MUST define himself as such.

[wndycty]

30. Your "concern" is duly noted . . .

. . .I do not defend his position on this issue, but I do passionately defend the candidate.

[MyNameGoesHere]

40. Wow you can miss a point can't you.

Concern is for how he will vote on social issues. OUTRAGE is for what he did. He did not uphold and defend the constitution along with ALL the others that voted for an illegal bill. I will not enable him like others are want to do. He fucked up and he did not have to.

[wndycty]

41. Do you know that he hasn't voted on the bill yet, don't you. . .

. . .we do expect him to cast a vote that most of us on DU wouldn't agree with, but for the record he did not vote on the bill yet.

[MyNameGoesHere]

42. Yes i know hopefully he will realize that he said he stood for change

and vote the right way. But he is not saying that in public. :(

[wndycty]

44. One bill, one vote does not undermine that. . .

. . .I know in your universe it does, but to many of us it does not.

[rodeodance]

58. one of the THE MOST IMPORTANT bills he will ever vote on.

[cliffordu]

65. Well, of course it is.

:eyes:

The toothpaste has been out of this tube for a long time, and there ain't any way to put it back in.

[wndycty]

66. And how is Hillary voting?

:kick:

[rodeodance]

84. i have not heard.

[wndycty]

87. I would be interested to know, especially since I suspect some folks are "concerned". . .

. . .because they want to imply that he was the wrong choice and "someone else" might have been more appropriate.

[rodeodance]

88. you have lots of concerns.

[wndycty]

91. Oh I do? LOL

The primaries are over. I'm more than ready to move on, but I'm also not going to stand down when I see supporters of one candidate sitting in the corner pouting that they lost and nit picking over Obama.

The FISA bill is something Obama needs to be called out on, HOWEVER it is not an issue that should make us question his fitness as the nominee, especially given the fact that with the exception of Kucinich and Dodd most of the other potential nominees would have gone in the same direction.

[MyNameGoesHere]

93. I see. In MY universe. Well, ain't that just sweet. n/t

[HousePainter]

18. Have you read the bill?

Since National Security will be the one card that McCain can possibly use to his great advantage especially if an "October Surprise" pops up, the issue is tricky for November.
I trust Obama, his vision and his integrity so I give him the benefit of the doubt that if this battle needed to be fought here and now he would or will (the Senate hasn't voted yet)fight.
I also trust that his campaign looks at the big picture and how this issue will effect down-ticket battles in swing districts.
Not only do we need to win the White House in November but we need to increase the majorities in both Houses.
I'll repeat that I trust him to know what needs to be done and knowing what can be done.

Sometimes you can win the battle but lose the war.

Meanwhile, let's put him in the White House, because the alternative is unacceptable.

[MyNameGoesHere]

21. Since when is the loss of constitutional rights

a acceptable loss? have you people gone insane?

[chimpymustgo]

39. The answer is yes. This place has gone from squalid to insane. Check your logic, your beliefs,

your BRAIN at the door. Come on in, and drink up!

[ecstatic]

52. I'm behind on this--has he issued a statement yet about why he voted yes? nt

[wndycty]

73. They haven't voted yet

:kick:

[JTFrog]

8. Friday was Chicken Little Dump Day. n/t

[blondeatlast]

12. It appeared Chicken Little has a digestive problem, too. nt

[HousePainter]

9. We have only one choice, McCain is not an option.

I agree completely. A number of my political views fall to the left of Obama's positions but he is by far the most exciting choice we have had in a long long time.

Let's make sure that we first put him in the White House and then make sure he stays true to his vision and addresses our concerns.

[wndycty]

10. Exactly. We need to hold him accountable once we elect him. . .

. . .but now that he is the nominee we need to keep him honest, nudge and push him to do the right thing, but most importantly we need to get him elected.

[Adelante]

15. "most importantly we need to get him elected"

:thumbsup:

[Flash Bazbo]

85. How can we hold him accountable with this Congress? n/t

[griffi94]

14. see imo there's the rub

if the democrats would truly hold him to his vision maybe that would work. the fact that he's an exciting choice doesn't excuse his support for this bill.
the thing i really take exception to tho is that his message is supposed to be about positive change and this is just more neocon bullshit. if it's ok to compromise a basic constitutional right then where do you draw the line.
as i posted up thread imo that's how we got to where we are now, one broken principle at a time.

[blondeatlast]

19. You've posted twice in this thread. May I respectfully suggest you do something else twice?

Make a call to your senior senator, then make the same call to your junior Senator.

My Ses. are McCain and Kyl, and they've already gotten a call, an e-mail, and a smail mail apiece.

Obama can't stop FISA alone.

[wndycty]

23. Exactly

:kick:

[griffi94]

25. my senators are

kay bailey hutchison and john cornyn.
i sent an e-mail, and i'm expecting them to ignore it.
but that's not surprising, given that they are both republicans.

[wndycty]

20. What is Hillary's position on the bill? What is Biden and Dodd's position on the bill?

How would Edwards and Richardson vote on the bill? I salute Kucinich's position on the bill, but he was unable to convince the majority of people participating in Democratic primaries and caucuses to support him.

I don't support Obama's current position on the bill but tell me what our options are.

[rug]

26. He's neither but he is the Democratic candidate.

That trumps everything else.

[wndycty]

29. Oh he is the best candidate, no one could beat him. . .

. . .he inspired millions, he got the most vote, won the post primaries, won the most caucuses, raised the most money. Isn't that what a candidate is supposed to do to be considered the best?

[rug]

31. No, his one duty is to protect the Constitution.

[wndycty]

32. Not sure who you feel the best candidate is, but what is that person's position on this issue?

Who did you support in the primary and what is his or her position?

[rug]

33. GDP is closed. It's now about electing a candidate who will not weaken the Constitution.

But feel free to use the search function to satisfy your curiosity.

[wndycty]

34. Why won't you just go on the record and say who you support and state his or her position on. . .

. . .on the bill?

What is so hard about that? You want to bash Obama, which is your right, but some of us are curious to know who think would be a better candidate and what that candidate's position is on the bill in question.

Who is the best candidate (who did you support)?

What is his or her position on the bill?

[rug]

50. If you think criticizing Obama for supporting FISA is bashing, you have stopped thinking.

BTW, who are "some of us"?

[wndycty]

74. Its funny you won't answer my question but now you want to know who is some of us is

:kick:

[apocalypsehow]

82. ****************DELETED****************

For unnecessary *snark* on my own part.

"Physician, heal thyself."

[Cha]

68. This is the GE so it is not that poster's

right to bash Obama ..it's against DU rules.

[Peacetrain]

27. Truth is, if we do not take those outside the base, we

will not win the election..you need the base, to get you forward.out of the primary season..but you have to take part of the center to get the big prize.. and those who carp that someone is moving center, are of not looking at the big picture..

In the end, those who complain the loudest that someone is moving too much to the center, are usually those who

1. supported another candidate and want nothing more than an I TOLD YOU SO, more than a party victory

2. then there are those, who are so afraid of actually getting power and having to then stand up
for their beliefs, that they will kneecap themselves or the party.. they really do NOT want to
win.. so much easier to carp on the sidelines

[MNDemNY]

48. Yes, he is the best candidate.

But that does NOT mean he should slide by unchallenged and un-criticized.When he comes down on what I feel is the wrong side of an issue, I WILL call him on it. As should any thinking voter.

[wndycty]

49. no one is saying he shouldn't be challenged on the bill, but

To pretend like we should re-examine our choice to nominate him is foolish.

[MNDemNY]

55. There is no other choice.

But we can not fall asleep, This is very troubling to me, my confidence in our party's leadership is waining.

[ecstatic]

51. I agree. Even Al Gore would come with some "concerns"

People...we can be too idealist at times. Welcome to reality.

[Laurab]

53. K&R - I'm concerned about many things...

My biggest concern is having John McBush in the White House. Followed by 100 years in Iraq, moving on to war with Iran, continuing shrub's failed policies across the board. THAT is my biggest concern. It's something we simply can't afford.

I believe Obama knows what he's doing, and what he has to do, to keep my biggest concern from happening. I trust him to do what he can now, and when he is in the White House, to undo the things that this administration has done.

Some people act as though he has already won the election - there is a long way to go, and I will not second guess my choice. Obama is both a good man, and a good politician. He is also still just a Senator.

I will never agree with everything he or anyone else does, but I will support him with everything I have. The alternative is far too scary, and something that this country simply can't afford.

[gblady]

61. well said...

the alternative is just too scary on so many fronts...
Cannot let that happen!

[Douglas Carpenter]

54. Absolutely True,

[bridgit]

56. What are you kidding? His future's so bright he's gotta wear shades

B-) DU has spawned a hybrid troll for that matter if you're, ahem, 'concerned' about such things and I'll name it right here The Willing To Turn A Blind Eye Troll. Either way it's all good till it isn't, cause like I say, "Obama's future's so bright he's gotta wear shades." B-) It's right there in your sig line ;)

[CakeGrrl]

57. Good point. "I won't help Obama any more unless/if/until..." is music to Camp McCain's ears

Were the comments praising his "chess moves" during the primaries just fair weather euphoria? Has the appreciation for his long-term planning gone out the window?

[AZBlue]

59. Couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately there are dramatists and very generally-unhappy people who will latch onto any issue and use it as an outlet for their misdirected hate. And there are those who are the Democratic version of the GOP - we must all march in line to what they want and believe or else it's wrong.

[jgraz]

60. wndy, calling out people as "concern trolls" on this issue is out of line

This is a HUGE issue for progressives and one that should be debated without dissent-chilling accusations. You know how supportive I've been of Obama in the past, but I'm appalled at his failure to lead in this case.

To me, this is far worse than his position on gay marriage or clean coal. In those cases, Obama simply disagrees with progressives. That I can deal with. What's much harder to accept is a situation like this where Obama basically agrees with us, but refuses to lead.

I'll wait to see what he actually does when the bill hits the Senate, but in the meantime, I plan on making my voice heard.

[roseBudd]

62. He is after all just one of 100 senators, his vote does not count as 60 votes

[Cha]

67. Exactly..I have one in mind right now

who is all over this board with..

"I see a lot of "concern" around here and if its legit then I have no problem with it, but I think much of this "concern" is more about trying to make us 2nd guess our choice and undermine the spirit of the movement behind him."

[Blue_Roses]

69. well said!

:thumbsup:

[On the Road]

70. Unlike Certain Other Issues

I don't see most of this as due to concern trolls.

[Catherina]

71. The constitution is being eviscerated. I'm very angry.

I'm sorry that doesn't sit will with many fellow Obama supporters but my duty AND HIS is to the constitution first and foremost.

There are things you compromise on but the constitution isn't one of them. Not to mention there wasn't any sort of a compromise. It's a complete capitulation as Feingold put it. The only compromise is that now the Telecoms have to have a memo which they all have on file already. That's some compromise. I'm seriously pained and outraged over this issue and Obama, because he's my candidate, is getting off easy because I'm tempering my anger but don't ask too much please. Some of us are seriously concerned when we see them gutting the constitution and Obama issues a lame statement playing both sides of the fence. That was honestly the last thing I expected from him as a constitutional lawyer.

Obama said WE're the change not him. Cheerleading him on when he makes a mistake weakens us all. I am seriously trying to temper my criticism in a way that won't undermine his shot at beating McCain but I can't pretend this doesn't concern me immensely.

The time is now to move from hope to change and I hope Obama hears the message from concerned supporters loud and clear. This is a crucial test for him and it's up to us to ensure an enthusiastic partnership by keeping him straight.

I think it's important to bear in mind that many of us have already compromised our principles to support Obama. It's unreasonable to expect blind obeisance and meekness while they're eviscerating our constitution. I know that's not what you're requesting in your OP but I had to rant.

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spying/fisa.html

[LWolf]

72. To be more accurate,

he's absolutely not the "best," and no candidate is "perfect."

He's the ONLY Democratic candidate.

[wndycty]

75. He is the best for if there was someone better, he or she would have won

:kick:

[LWolf]

80. The "best" is subjective,

and I disagree with your assertion. Assuming that any group of voters will always vote in their best interests and/or choose the best candidate for a job is just foolish.

The primaries are over, and it's too late to get the best, at least if you wanted authentic, non centrist/corporate/bluedog/new dem/neoliberal change.

[Two Americas]

76. both can be true

It is not an either/or situation. Supporting a candidate does not require suspension of critical thinking. To ask that is to sabotage representative democracy, by asking us to represent politicians rather than demanding that they represent us. It is our sacred duty and civic responsibility to criticize our government officials and the politicians. That does not mean we are demanding "perfection," and saying that is what people are asking for is a way to suppress criticism and debate and is contrary to a free and open democratic process.

What does "support" mean for you? If it precludes criticism and free speech, it is not the sort of "support" that should ever be encouraged let alone insisted upon in a free country.

we should ALWAYS second guess our rulers - and third guess and fourth guess them, indefinitely and continually. We have a duty to do so, no matter how uncomfortable that may make us or others.

Willingness to criticize Democratic politicians does not weaken them or lessen their chance for success, quite to the contrary, it gives our support of them more credibility and strength. The people we need to reach and persuade to vote Democratic are not impressed by some sort of mindless true-blue loyalty, in fact they reject it and any other arguments we try to make. It only impresses those who are already solid Democrats, and the thing that it impresses them with is the intolerance for free speech and critical thought. This hurts us and the party on so many levels, under the guise of somehow helping the effort. People's support for Obama must be terribly weak and shallow id they feel compelled to object to any criticism, and their view of politics is pretty child-like if they think that "negative" thoughts affect the election.

The critics of the party and the leaders are the strongest and most loyal Democrats, in my view, and always have been. Without them, there would be nothing there that was worth our loyalty.

I call for an end to loyalty tests and the chilling effect they have on freedom of speech and thought, and the damaging effect they have on the fortunes of the party and the candidates.

[Life Long Dem]

79. You said it.

If only they took their own advice.

[Autumn]

81. I'm not concerned ,

pissed but not concerned.

[ZinZen]

83. Spot on wndycty!

Everytime I see another thread about the FISA issue, I just keep on thinking of those poor people in Iowa flooded out of their homes, people without jobs, piss poor healthcare, the illegal war in Iraq. So many HUGE issues that Obama will address so differently than Bush or McSame. But hey, I am a pragmatist not an idealist.

[Major Hogwash]

86. The Fisa bill can be reworked, the election can't if McCain gets in the White House.

I don't know why people are freaking out over legislation that is already in place.
It's like being in jail and pissing and moaning about the rules of the way cases are conducted in court, when we are trying to change who the damned judge will be when we go back to court.

-- Guess what folks, that's what we're all trying to do - change the judge!! --

Make Obama the decider for a change, not Bush/McCain!!


"Here comes the judge, here comes the judge, the judge is coming, here comes the judge."

~ poor reference to Sammy Davis Jr on Laugh-in in 1968.

[treestar]

89. Right, and besides, their exact positions on every issue

are not necessarily going to have effects without a Congress that feels the same. The President is not a dictator. Or, at least, we need to elect one who does not intend to attempt to make the office into a dictator's.

[JohnnyLib2]

90. Y'know, I stopped using the word "concern" 6 months ago.

It's another casualty of this election cycle, IMO.

The unfortunate side effect is to put a big chill on discussing matters of huge and lasting importance. Once "concern" in any form, format, or synonym came under attack---defensive anger began to replace it. :banghead:

[Orsino]

92. Thanks for your *concern*.

Heh. ;-)

I agree. As a third choice, he's still a good choice, I think, and improving.