In 1799, Thomas Jefferson echoed...

[slipslidingaway]

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/21/obama/index.html

"...In 1799, Thomas Jefferson echoed that: "Free government is founded in jealousy, not confidence . . . . Let no more be heard of confidence in men, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitutions."

"Between (a) relying on the limitations imposed by the Constitution or (b) placing faith in the promises of a political leader not to abuse his unchecked power, it isn't really a difficult choice -- at least it ought not to be, no matter who the political leader in question happens to be."

[zeemike]

1. A very good point

Thank you Tomas Jefferson we need to follow that advice today.

[Catch22Dem]

2. We need to follow a LOT of TJ's advice today. (n/t)

[rurallib]

5. Like "a little revolution every now and then is a good thing"

don't know if the quote is correct but the sentiment is.

[Catch22Dem]

9. Yeah, he basically said laws and governments...

need to be refreshed every generation or so. Our generation shouldn't be beholden to the laws of our parents' generation. A revolution every 20 years or so.

[slipslidingaway]

3. Yes it is, thanks. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

4. See this post from a new DU'er who made a similar point

earlier.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3496079


"There is something we MUST keep in mind about warrantless spying on Americans

We must all understand something. With warrantless spying we are on a razor's edge. There is only the finest of lines separating us from being targeted, harassed, punished, or retaliated against for thought or speech. And that line is easily crossed because our protection depends only on the will of those in office. There are no remaining checks and balances.

So our only security is the luck of choosing a "nice" person to be in charge. If we are lucky, that person won't abuse the power. And it comes down to pure luck, because seldom is a person what he or she represents themselves to be in a political campaign. And people can and do change. Nice people can become not-so-nice people.

And here is something very important that everyone should be aware of:

The very existence of warrantless spying is itself intimidation.

How many people will give second thoughts to expressing honest opinions, or resistance to encroachments on their liberties (or their wallets) if in the backs of their minds they know anything they say or type is archived permanently can be traced back to them? The numbers of voices that will speak out on any subject, whether it's abuse, human rights violations, torture, exploitation, denial of rights and civil liberties, or any other subject will diminish rapidly.

This is a bad, bad road we're on. It's not something to minimize or compromise on."

[slipslidingaway]

6. John Adams - 1772

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/21/obama/index.html

"UPDATE: In comments, Hume's Ghost wrote:

What really rubbed me the wrong way was how Obama in his statement says essentially trust me with these powers, I'll use them responsibly.

Nope.

"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." - John Adams <1772>."

[slipslidingaway]

7. Kick, I do not want to rely on a person to protect my rights...

Obama...

"...So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives -– and the liberty –- of the American people."

[Gabi Hayes]

10. and from now on the language of this country will be.....

Swedish!

[slipslidingaway]

8. Morning kick n/t