A party at risk - A country at risk

[slipslidingaway]

A few snips from this post of last year by DU'er welshTerrier2 that are relevant to the current FISA legislation and what our party should have done.

The particular issue does not matter, how you go about gaining support for an issue matters greatly.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/welshTerrier2/126

A party at risk - A country at risk
Posted by welshTerrier2 in General Discussion: Presidential
Tue Jun 19th 2007, 12:48 PM

"Like many DU'ers, there is nothing i would like to see more than a unified, effective Democratic Party committed to making the very real and very significant changes the country so desperately requires. Those who are furious at the party for the last disgrace on the Iraq funding bill are not "party haters". We hate what the Dems did and we hate what they are failing to do..."


Here's the major point: You need to separate the legislative process from the "platform" process....

Passing legislation doesn't start in the Congress; it starts with the American people. If the Party really wanted to make this critically needed reform, they would be raising the issue every chance they got. They aren't...

The problem with the party is NOT about which bill they pass; it's about the party's message to the American people. You don't need a veto proof majority to put out a message..."

[blondeatlast]

1. I've called my Senators, McCain and Kyl. Now I'm bitching because my son's future

depends very much on getting someone who isn't a spineless, neocon nutjob elected.

Thanks, okay?

[slipslidingaway]

2. I think we can and should do both and not just except the

excuses. How many times do we hear that there is not support for an issue or that the people do not really care about this bill.

It is because it has not ben brought to the attention of the people.

[blondeatlast]

3. I take it on faith that you are as concerned about the threat that is

Bush III as you are about FISA. We're both concerned about both, but I have a son not yet a teen--and the thought of another 4-8 years of this TERRIFIES me.

[slipslidingaway]

4. So let me ask the question again...

why has our party not made this an issue and why have our candidates not educated the public about this program as they traveled across the country?

I do believe Jonathan Turley has a point we need to consider and this can happen, and has happened, in various situations, that to me is a larger issue and one that has a longer term effect on all of us.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25283004/


JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Hi, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Have the Democrats blinked or Mr. Feingold and Mr. Leahy are going to kill this in the Senate?

TURLEY: Well, this is more like a one-man staring contest. I mean, the Democrats never really were engaged in this. In fact, they repeatedly tried to cave in to the White House, only be stopped by civil libertarians and bloggers. And each time they would put it on the shelf, wait a few months, they did this before, reintroduced it with Jay Rockefeller‘s support, and then there was another great, you know, dustup and they pulled it back.

I think they‘re simply waiting to see if the public‘s interest will wane and we‘ll see that tomorrow, because this bill has, quite literally, no public value for citizens or civil liberties...

TURLEY: Yes. This is a very frightening bill. What people have to understand is that FISA itself is controversial. This court issued tens of thousands of warrants granted applications for surveillance without turning down any. Only recently did they turn down two...

TURLEY: Well, there‘s no question in my mind that there is an obvious level of collusion here. We now know that Democratic leadership knew about the illegal surveillance program almost from its inception. Even when they were campaigning about fighting for civil liberties, they were aware of an unlawful surveillance program as well as a torture program. And ever since that came out, the Democrats have been silently trying to kill any effort to hold anyone accountable because that list could very well include some of their own members.

[blondeatlast]

5. You completely dodged my point. Therefore you demonstrate that my opinion doesn't matter to you.

Adieu.

[slipslidingaway]

6. Maybe you did not read the reply, I'm just as concerned and maybe

even more so about the long term consequences of passing legislation that erodes our rights.

And look at all the new enemies we have created that my children will have to deal with in the future and too many look the other way on accountability.

Also you never addressed the original point made last year in the OP I referred to...


"Here's the major point: You need to separate the legislative process from the "platform" process....

Passing legislation doesn't start in the Congress; it starts with the American people. If the Party really wanted to make this critically needed reform, they would be raising the issue every chance they got. They aren't...

The problem with the party is NOT about which bill they pass; it's about the party's message to the American people. You don't need a veto proof majority to put out a message..."

[slipslidingaway]

7. ...... nt

[slipslidingaway]

8. This is why we are losing the FISA battle, it was never taken to

the people by those who had the media's attention.

And then the next issue...