Obamaniac Overconfidence

[woolldog]

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/06/obamaniac-overconfidence.php

Talking Points Memo
By Larry Geater - June 24, 2008, 8:33AM

We are overconfident. We are arrogant. If we do not reign it in we are going to lose. All of our individual concerns are valid but that does not make bringing them up productive.

At a meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus Sen Obama said "If women take a moment to realize that on every issue important to women, John McCain is not in their corner, that would help them get over it." He is making the argument that Sen McCain is against the positions of a majority of women but what was the takeaway message for Rep. Diane Watson? For her it was a chance to get offended because he used the three words she did not want to hear, "get over it". Because that is a trigger phrase for her she did not hear the argument which is so obviously true he should not have even had to be making it to a member of the House.

At a Detroit rally an Obama volunteer asked two women wearing head scarves to to not sit behind the Sen Obama. They decided to take public umbrage to this slight and force the Senator's campaign to deal with this matter of trivia for a week instead of concentrating one defining his race with Sen McCain. Do they think that their interests are better served by a president who wants to Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Iran?

Last week Sen Obama made a statement saying he would fight to get the telecom immunity removed from the FISA bill but that if he failed in that that failure would not make him vote against the final bill. If you listened to the hue and cry from his supposed political alis you would have thought he was the author of every deminishment of our civil rights for the past eight years instead of the candidate who is trying to defeat them.

Do you think McCain will be a better representative of where you want the nation to go? Even if you are just choosing the lesser of two evils and you believe in governmental checks and balances, peace, women's rights and the environment; Obama is your man. Quit acting like he cannot lose. He surely can. If we keep taking him to task for every slight to our pet issues then he surely will. Until the Wednesday after the Tuesday after the first Monday in November just Get Over It! Unless you think we need four more years of the policies of Bush.

[Hippo_Tron]

1. I think the FISA critics will vote for Obama no matter how much kicking and screaming

And they aren't exactly wrong in their criticism. Those that say they are withholding donations because of it are a vast minority.

[gcomeau]

25. The concern isn't about *them* voting for Obama. Or personally donating.

It's about how many truly undecided voters they may turn off with their ranting and bitching and repeating the argument the republicans WANT embedded in the consciousness of the electorate. They absolutely need to undermine Obama's image as an agent of change and convince people he's just a standard average politician... and going out there and HELPING them do it because you're throwing a tantrum over Obama not going as far as you want him to on a single issue, even an important issue, is flat out stupid.

Anyone who reacts to this FISA situation by making any smarmy ass comment about how they guess Obama is "just another politician after all" is echoing and amplifying GOP talking points. It's just that simple.

[woolldog]

30. Yes. And very well said.

[Catherina]

39. It it's that simple it's surprising the Obama campaign isn't getting it

and refusing to explain choosing instead to go after traditional big donors saying the netroots is "fatigued". Obama has NOTHING to gain by voting for the compromise and much to lose. What's flat out stupid is criticizing people who were very enthusiastic for losing their enthusiasm now instead of pushing the campaign to address the root problem.

[Kdillard]

2. I completely agree

it is still early and overconfidence is a dangerous thing.

[melody]

3. I think confidence is exactly what we need

The GOP loves to knock down our hopes and quash our momentum. They know how powerful that is.

[Blue_Roses]

23. Confidence with humility is what we need...

and it's what we have so far. Overconfidence is cocky, arrogant, and selfish. We definitely do not want that.

[Skip Intro]

4. Therefore Obama is above question because to question him, to disagree in any way, is to help mccain

This is little different than saying watch what you say, or something bad may happen. Don't criticize, to any degree - don't hold accountable, at all, our nominee, because you only hurt his chances of winning and mccain is alot worse, so stfu.

I'm sorry, none of our public servants are above being held accountable for their words and actions. Not a single one.

Such an effort to silence not just dissent, but simple expression of one's opinion, does not serve us well.

[Occam Bandage]

5. Not at all. Nobody is saying you can't criticize Obama.

It's simply saying that if you criticize Obama over minutiae, you will better serve your interests if you keep in mind the bigger picture as you do so.

Consider it advice you may disregard, should you disagree with the OP's assertions.

[Jakes Progress]

35. Clarification needed.

Elsewhere in this thread, people referred to those who criticize Obama for his FISA stance and reversal. I just let them go as fan boys who have no moral center other than a desire to be a "winner". But you used the term "minutiae", and I want to know what you consider minutiae. Do you believe that this move on his part is a bit of minutiae, a minor detail?

[chascarrillo]

6. Personally, I think that not voting for the Democratic candidate helps McCain, but that's just me.

[Skip Intro]

7. I don't believe the OP was about voting for either candidate,

but rather a not so thinly veiled plea to not speak ill of Obama.

[Skittles]

11. actually I think the gist of the OP is

McCain sucks worse than Obama so vote for the less-sucky candidate

[onetwo]

12. The point is that the attacks on the Dem nominee should be left to the GOP.

Moral of the story: If you want a Democrat in the White House, try to hold your tongue until after 11/4.

[JVS]

13. If you speak ill of Obama, expect people to speak ill of you. A lot of us support him.

[Evergreen Emerald]

18. Now That's democracy!

oh brother. Tyranny of the majority.

[JVS]

21. Waahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Cry me a river.

[Evergreen Emerald]

22. I am not sure I understand your post.

You suggested that anyone who disagrees with you and you will attack them. I pointed out that you are not talking about democracy. And you started crying?

Perhaps you need a nap.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tblue37]

27. Actually, that IS democracy in action--

argument over policy points. If someone disagrees with me, I certainly will "attack" him or her, in the sense of going after that person's argument. That's what disagreement and argument are.

But the OP's point is that Obama cannot be the perfect progressive candidate during the GE, because he must appeal to a broader spectrum of voters, so he must walk a tightrope to avoid giving the Republicans ammunition. He has to get elected in order to do a lot of what we want him to do, and that means not scaring away too many Independents and moderate Republicans.

I honestly believe Obama is a Trojan horse--on our side. I think once he gets inside the gates, he will turn sharply to the left, just as GWB turned sharply to the right once he was in power. And if Obama is not terribly damaged by attacks during the GE, he will also have very long coattails, and with a strong Dem majority, he can push policies that he has to tiptoe around right now because of our slim majority (which is held hostage by Joementum Lieberdweeb).

[Evergreen Emerald]

33. If that were what the post said, you would be correct

But the poster said this : "If you speak ill of Obama, expect people to speak ill of you. A lot of us support him."

That is not argument over policy. That is shutting people up who have disagreement over policy.



Obama: the worst thing he said about FISA, and I found it alarming, was when he said that he would "monitor it" to make sure it was not abused. That is GW speak. We can make laws that violate the constitution, but don't worry--I will be watching to make sure it is not abused....

That is NOT America. There are three co-equal branches of government that provide a checks and balances system on all three. His job it not to monitor the law violations. His job is to protect and defend the constitution. For him to Continue the assault on the Constitution with GW speak is alarming.

[JVS]

34. This is America. If you don't like it, go to Russia.

[Runcible Spoon]

37. oh yes, the old Love it or Leave It. Didn't work for Bush supporters, why recycle it now?

:shrug:

[Runcible Spoon]

36. my god you're a bully.

do you realize you never do anything but stir up shit? If you really cared about getting people to understand your perspective, you wouldn't be flexing your internet warrior e-peen all over every Obama thread. Sheesh.

[BzaDem]

9. You should let him know what you think, as long as you continue to support him with the same

enthusiasm.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "you only hurt his chances of winning and mccain is a lot worse." If you support him less, or donate less than you would have, or whatever, you are mathematically helping McCain whether you like it or not. Some people just don't like that they have to make a choice between two candidates, so they just pretend they don't really have to make that choice. But after the primary season is over, that is the choice we have to make. Republicans seem to always get this quicker than Democrats, which is partly why they won the last 7/10 presidential elections.

[Undercurrent]

10. At this time

Obama is the public servant of the people of Illinois. He will only be a public servant to ALL of us when he becomes president. So it behooves those of us who want a Democrat in the White House to support him. I do. As he is. An imperfect man. There is no such thing as the perfect candidate, but I prefer to look at the totality of the man, and not pick him to bits.

[uponit7771]

8. We need 20 percent lead going into election to defeat Diebold machines

[CreekDog]

14. No

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. You're insane

Happy, "vote fraud" activists?

You're literally turning voters into insane people with your nonsense.

[high density]

16. Gimme a break

"Oh no! We're too enthusiastic! Stop the train and get depressed again!!"

[olkaz]

17. I'm really getting tired of this bullshit - it is a POSITIVE THING that morale is so high

Jesus christ, these people will invent anything to portray a chink in the campaign's armor.

We have an energized, involved, and donating base that is excited about taking the country back. Oh woe is us!

[woolldog]

31. Really?

--His fundraising for May was at an all time low.

--And Obama and McCain have roughly the same amount of cash on hand.

--The RNC currently has $46 million more than the DNC.

Obama will have to outraise McCain until the convention. And then raise over 84 million after McCain gets his public funds. And the DNC will have to close the 46 million dollar gap with the RNC. That's a tall order.

[BlooInBloo]

19. Your concern is noted.

[Alter Ego]

20. The man's a Democrat with good intentions, not a saint.

And he's certainly not above criticism.

But dammit, he's a step in the right direction, even if he is unable to deliver sweeping reforms to Washington politics, and we need all the help we can get.

[Bake]

26. Ironic. "Get over it."

The author recognizes that when Obama said "get over it," some people just stopped listening. That was all they heard. Get over it. And then the author concludes by telling everyone to "get over it."

Ironic.

Bake

[barack the house]

28. There is simply too much at stake to not work like crazy for Democrats...

No party on earth every gives the people exactly what they want but the Democrats have historically helped than hindered america.

[LaurenG]

29. I'm not in the mood for this today

I don't feel anyone is overconfident. I get a creepy feeling in my gut about this post and the writer of the article.

Obama is way too smart to think he doesn't have work to do. Thankfully he knows what it takes to move forward and gather as many supporters as possible. I think that once he's chosen a VP we'll know who to count on and who to count out.

edit typo

[DogPoundPup]

38. Here's a novel idea!

How about DU'ers do post more posting of the negatives of McSAME instead of diagnosing every little move Obama makes or doesn't make?

I posted this about McCain, and not one comment on the article ...
A Hidden Agenda: John McCain and the International Republican Institute
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6412689&mesg_id=6412689

[CanonRay]

32. Don't spike the ball on the 5 yard line.