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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 01:58 PM
Original message
The simple mention of race turns Americans into mewling, sputtering morons, part 1: Nader
Edited on Wed Jun-25-08 02:19 PM by Bucky
This is intended to be the first in a series of comments on the stunningly dillweedish things people say in the course of this campaign on the topic of race. Now, I'm going out on a limb here. By announcing that this will be a series of posts, I'm basically staking my reputation here on DU on the premise that many Americans will inevitably say stupid shit on the topic of race, as revealed through their reactions to this year's presidential election.

Frankly, I don't think I'm taking much of a risk here.

The inspiration for this series is the evil twin of my favorite voodoo doll: Ralph Nader.

Ralph Nader: Barack Obama wants to ‘talk white’

Ralph Nader says the only thing different about Barack Obama is that he is “half African-American.” The Independent presidential candidate also accused his Democratic rival of attempting to “talk white.”

“There’s only one thing different about Barack Obama when it comes to being a Democratic presidential candidate. He’s half African-American,” Nader said in an interview with a Denver newspaper Monday. “Whether that will make any difference, I don’t know. I haven’t heard him have a strong crackdown on economic exploitation in the ghettos. Payday loans, predatory lending, asbestos, lead. What’s keeping him from doing that? Is it because he wants to talk white? He doesn’t want to appear like Jesse Jackson? We’ll see all that play out in the next few months and if he gets elected afterwards.”


Ralph Nader...?

"Yes, Bucky?"

You, sir, are a mewling, sputtering moron. I understand you come from a generation for which it was a novelty to think of black men as more black than men. This is my polite way of saying you're a grumpy ol' coot who hasn't kept up with the times. It's apparent from your language that you continue to judge people through the lens of race--by the color of their skin rather than the content of their character, to borrow a phrase. Your mindset filters subtly in through your choice of language "crackdown", "ghettos", "Jesse Jackson." When you see Barack Obama, you see brown--and then you're shocked, shocked!, that he doesn't behave in the way your mind has pigeon holed African-Americans to behave. How can he really be black and not act just like someone else who's also black?

"Exactly! Dammit, Barack, why can't you be more Negroish?"

Sir, your eloquence floors me. Sadly, you lost me with that "because he wants to talk white" comment. I believe phrases like that are commonly referred to as "gems" or "old chestnuts". Certainly you're aware that "talking white" is another meme from your generation, implying either negatively that the colored folk are forgetting their place, or more positively that they're overcoming the horrible stigma of being, you know, black. This of course is all part of a mindset that sees black men as a lesser category of men, who can't see them except as a subset of regular--meaning white--people. It's all well and good for them to talk about urban problems and civil rights problems and inequality in education problems. But don't go talking about "regular" issues like foreign policy or balancing the budget. That's for mainstream--meaning white--society to worry about.

"He's forgetting where he comes from."

Completely off the plantation, yes, I see your point.

"Well, nothing I say is quite that bad. I'm just noting I don't see him talking about, and I quote myself, 'Payday loans, predatory lending, asbestos, lead' and 'ghetto' things like that."

Oddly, though, I never heard your complaint that McCain isn't talking about payday loans, predatory lending, or asbestos poisoning.

"Of course not, but McCain is the Republican."

Hold on there, sweet pea. I thought Republicans and Democrats were supposed to be indistinguishable.

"And apparently they are, since we don't see Obama talking about the things black people are supposed to talk about."

How can I be losing a hypothetical argument in my own head? Oh, wait, I know--because you're talking out of your ass again, Ralphster.* First off, You also didn't complain that Clinton, Edwards, or Richardson were sidestepping "black issues." Secondly, Obama absolutely does address the matters you complain he doesn't address. On his websites you can see his take on
- Civil Rights - plans to strengthen civil rights enforcement, end deceptive voting practices, combat employment discrimination, and eliminate sentencing disparities
- Housing issues - in both mixed-income neighborhoods and for areas of concentrated poverty
- the looming foreclosure crisis - "create a Foreclosure Prevention Fund to help people refinance their mortgages and provide comprehensive supports to innocent homeowners"

Beyond his success on fighting the lead paint issue you allude to, Obama's got a pretty solid record on protecting people from urban environmental hazard, that in part sprang from an important turning point in his career that concerned asbestos clean ups. If he's not talking about it to your liking, Ralph, the problem might be that he's already established his leadership on these issues and there's not a lot of people around arguing in favor of lead and asbestos poisoning that he can take the matter up with.

But the issue at hand is your stupidity, not your ignorance. Ralph, you're stupid. You're stupid about race. You see a black man and you think he can't be a man in full. You think about race and your brain does the hokey-pokey. You see a black politician and think he must make civil rights the centerpiece of his agenda. He should wear an afro and a dashiki with big bell-bottom jeans and he should be angry about growing up in the projects and he should play basketball and he should use the verb "to dig" or the adjective "groovio" to signify his approval of things. If he fails to fit into this narrow antiquated stereotype, then obviously he's acting white.

"That's very white of you."

Seriously, dude, quit listening to Rush Limbaugh's show. It's starting to warp your brain.




* Caveat: since this is a hypothetical argument, technically the Ralphster is talking out of my ass. But, then, hypothetical dialogs should be fair game, After all, Nader himself has written a script featuring the Obama in his mind. It's a short and insightful read. Apparently, the Obama in Ralph's mind is glib, superficial, tells people only what they want to hear, and never breaks out of his own self-imposed cultural niche. If I really wanted to play amateur psychologist with Ralph Nader, I think that article might be a good place to start.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent idea!
But understand that you keeping a track of who said what when makes you eligible for possibly being accused of playing the race card in necessary.

You understand this hazard, I hope?

Hope you keep your series as part of your Journal here at DU....
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, it's journaled now.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. I see this turning into a long-g-g series; excellent start-rec'd! nt
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brindis_desala Donating Member (866 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. Bravo!
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NatBurner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. this was great
i'm looking foward to the next one!
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. The Ralphster was talking out of my ass last week.
So, I had him removed by a colonoscopy. Thank god he wasn't malignant.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Oh my, what a blistering comment
But yes, Ralph gets me "boiling over" too.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. We had to go through a lot of shit to find him.
But, we got him.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
9. Who's part two? Imus?
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. I covered Imus in the "Race turns Americans into blithering nincompoops" series
Since then I've changed the threshhold to include the "not senile yet" criterion, so I have my doubts he'll make it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. What if Nader had said that Obama is talking DLC . . . ???
the language of EXPLOITATION ---
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. Someone once told me that they, "couldn't understand a word that Jesse Jackson was saying" . . ..
Edited on Wed Jun-25-08 02:59 PM by defendandprotect
but it was completely clear that, indeed, they could understand what he was saying

and their reaction was fearful and racist ---

Jesse Jackson spoke about EXPLOITATION --- and that doesn't only happen to African-Americans

in America -- it's happening to all of us.

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WA98070 Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. Nader was wrong to mention race. He just should have mention Corporatist, or DLCr.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yes, that would have been a fair ground for criticism. I'd disagree, but it's not moronic.
People tend to bring up race once they've run out of anything relevant to add to the conversation.

Ralph's timing was perfect.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. How easy to distract people from reality . . ..
Edited on Wed Jun-25-08 03:05 PM by defendandprotect
Chasing the strawman might have been a better title ---

Nader supports impeachment of Bush ---

Do the Democrats you just elected?

Nader supports our FISA laws and is against protecting the communications companies --

Do the Democrats you just elected?

Nader is against the Patriot Act --

Do the Democrats you just elected support it or not?

How about Habeas Corpus -- Nader is for it --- where are the Democrats ---

While you're chasing the "strawman" think about the fact that your hatred for Nader

is based on a fake Florida verdict -- Gore actually won --- and that 300,000 Democrats

in Florida voted for Bush -- while Bush "won" by 527 votes.

Think about Buchanan taking 3,000 "butterfly ballot" votes -- Bush won by 527 votes.

Think about Libertarians and others taking thousands of votes --- Bush won by 527 votes.

Mainly . . . THINK --- !!!
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jespwrs Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Thank you for being a beacon of sanity.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. OK --- help me get the info out which will start people THINKING . . .
:)

When people are actually being betrayed, I think they should actually know who's doin'

it to 'em . . .

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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
42. are you sure you belong on du.
although we may not always agree with the dem leadership-i don't uphold other parties over mine.
perhaps you want libertarian underground.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. A well reasoned critique...
...would include reasoning.

I remain open to dialog.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. I look forward to your next post concerning "exotic" peoples.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Actually, he *could* have been more right. For instance he could have said this...
"Barack Obama wants to talk white and, by the way, I'm self absorbed egomaniac who tries to get Republicans elected."
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Tech 9 Donating Member (179 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Ralph Nader says the only thing different about Barack Obama is that he is “half African-American.”
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Seriously, do you not get the meaning of "wants to talk white?"
I'm over 40 and from the South. I know a euphemism for "uppity" when I see it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. "Uppity" . . . ????
Edited on Wed Jun-25-08 04:50 PM by defendandprotect
YOU think that Nader is saying that Obama is "uppity" ---

:eyes:
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #31
41. I think he called him an Oreo.
Not the first time I've heard it, either.
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Tech 9 Donating Member (179 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. You get that Obama
Edited on Wed Jun-25-08 04:59 PM by Tech 9
has been trying to pretend that he is "white" as a tactic to attract white supporters and bolster his support from business, right? You get that his tactics represents a complete abandonment of blacks, right? You get that everything he says is in line with pretending race is no longer an issue in the US, right?

I don't know where you got your crazy ass interpretation from
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. and what does that mean to you --- ???
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Tech 9 Donating Member (179 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. That was the statement
that I was referring to when I said Ralph couldn't be more right. The fact that Obama is AA means shit as it turns out.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Right -- what you have to keep your eye on is the MONEY MEN . . .
and there were a number of meetings with Obama last week ---

He's also called for the paying off of Clinton's $10 million in debt ---

WHY is he handling her finances --- ???


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. eh . ..
Edited on Wed Jun-25-08 07:45 PM by defendandprotect
I agreed with your post . . . wholeheartedly . . .
I think I connected with wrong post --


I was trying to link with the guy who thought it meant "uppity" . . . !!!
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
40. Factual error.
Barack isn't half African-American. He's half African, and all American.

Nader has lost it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Everything you know about politics is something that Nader has put forth ---
Had Nader said that the DLC got to Obama -- which is probably what happened in meetings with

the MONEY MEN over the past week and few days -- you probably wouldn't have paid

much attention to --

On the other hand, what Nader is trying to make clear to you is that this is no Jesse Jackson

who told so much truth and raised fears --- about real issues.

Again, you're chasing a strawman ---

300,000 Democrats in Florida voted for Bush --- !!!

and you think that somehow Nader was responsible for that --- ???

Gore listened to the DLC and pulled back on liberal message --- same as Obama is doing now.

Buchanan took 3000 of the "butterfly ballot" votes ---

Libertarians and other third parties took thousands of votes ---

and you're blaming Nader because Bush "won" by 527 votes --- ??? !!!!


In fact, Gore won in Florida according to the press . . . no matter how you count the votes --

And that includes the 600 plus military votes which the Bush campaign "illegally" counted!!!



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. dupe
Edited on Wed Jun-25-08 04:47 PM by defendandprotect
dupe - apologies
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. If you don't support the Democratic nominee..

..then why are you here?? That's what this sight is about.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. I'm here to support the Democratic nominee . . .
I'll be voting for Obama ---

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that DU'ers should be left in the dark about what really happened
in 2000 or let them run away in HATRED falsely blaming someone they know very little about!

In other words, I'm here to try to tell as much truth as possible ---


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margotb822 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thinking about race in the supermarket
Just yesterday, I was amazed at how many people of different races were in the same supermarket as I was. And I started thinking, what is race anyway, but a superficial covering of a human being? Yes, our brains like stereotypes because it makes it easier to handle large groups of people, but in reality, race is no longer an easy way to categorize people. It's just sad when people see differences as something to be feared rather than celebrated, IMO.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Geneticists will tell you "race" doesn't exist.
There's more variation within a given race than there is between the supposed "norms" of any two races. Categorizing people by race in any technical sense is like tracing the outline of a 2 inch square with the a 3 inch wide marker.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. We'll all be better off when we understand that ---
Edited on Wed Jun-25-08 04:57 PM by defendandprotect
Racism has been taught by the ruling class in order to EXPLOIT people of color ---

Same as myths of inferiority by gender have been used to EXPLOIT females ---

Like every other exploitation, it's profitable for them ---

and that's really ALL it's about ....



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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. There are different races but the ruling classes always try to
set them against each other in order to control them.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Yes . . . it's the way they get the public to do their work for them ---
and same for the sexes -- male/female --

hetereosexual/homosexual ---

If there isn't an underclass, things just aren't working well for them.
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