As far as I'm concerned, Obama can do whatever he has to do to win this.

[Labors of Hercules]

We all know where he stands and what he will do when he is sworn in as President. And we know the same about McCain.

So we also know Barack has to do EVERYTHING WITHIN REASON to ensure McCain DOES NOT STAND A CHANCE IN HELL of winning the White House, NO MATTER WHAT INSANE CONTINGENCIES MAY HAPPEN.

He said to his staff and volunteers that the burden is on him now. For the good of the Nation, he has to win.

[damntexdem]

1. Hear, hear. Remember "anybody but Bush"?

Well, we're much better off with Obama than with many other anybodies that we might have had to support. Now, Obama needs to win. But I would like it if he could still generate excitement and hope, still treat Americans as adults, still put out a real message rather than just campaign hype, and so on. But the bottom line is to win it: prez plus bigger Congressional majorities.

[Labors of Hercules]

6. He's better than any I've seen at balance.

Getting the dirty work done while keeping his center, charisma, vitality, and most of all integrity completely untouched.

[jefferson_dem]

2. Agreed.

He's a man of honor and principle but not at the expense of being politically skilled and savvy enough to know how to win.

I trust this man to do what's right. After he's elected, when it comes to governing, then I'll chime in with a more critical voice when/if necessary.

[dflprincess]

19. A man of honor and principle

who will ignore the oath he took to protect and defend the Constitution for political expediency.

I'm not surprised, I never figured he was anything but a run of the mill politician, whose main concern is his own ambition, but I will not defend this kind of crap.

[Labors of Hercules]

25. FISA is not the only thing we're referring to, but...

did you bother to listen to Obama's actual stand on FISA, or are you just mad to be mad?

[dflprincess]

32. Yes I did and I am not impressed.

Thirty-six years I've been active in the DFL and I'm beginning to understand why people don't vote.

[Tyler Durden]

86. Hear, Hear!

We are going to have to fight all of the old fights again, and I'm too tired to do it.

[Cha]

72. Then we won't be seeing you around

DU because we are here to get Obama elected not to read your negative crap.

[eleny]

3. He's threading a needle

So I've decided to let him do it his way.

It's hard since I have strong views. But we have so much to lose that I have to agree with you. And I have to just learn to trust.

Hopefully, we'll have eight years to tug President Obama in our direction.

[Labors of Hercules]

8. If he hasn't given the people enough reason to trust him...

I don't think anyone could.

[Lisa0825]

4. I trust him.

I also don't expect him to agree with me 100%. He's our best chance, and I will have his back through the GE. Once he's in office, THAT'S when we need to pressure him. Right now, I am on board with him and trust his judgment.

[journalist3072]

9. You sound like the uneducated person who called into Tom Joyner's show one day

And said we need to vote for Obama first, and then find out what his plans are.

Excuse me, I thought it was supposed to be the other way around.

Do you honestly think he'll give two cents about you once he's in office?

[jefferson_dem]

12. Actually, we know what his plans are and also know he has to get elected in order to implement them.

Thanks for your concern though.

[journalist3072]

18. No, we do not know what his plans are. Did you read the article in the Sacramento Bee

which came out some months ago? Basically, it said that Obama campaign volunteers had been trained that if they encountered a voter that asked them where he stood on a specific policy issue, they were to not engage the voter in a discussion on Obama's policies. Instead, they were to share some sort of warm and fuzzy story on how they came to support him.

Translation: Obama really doesn't believe the American people have a right to know where he stands on the issues.

After all this time, I still don't have a sense of where he wants to take the country, because he talks out of both sides of his mouth.

In the summer of 2004, he said there was "no difference" between him and George W. Bush on Iraq, and he didn't know how he would have voted on Iraq had he been in the Senate. During this course of this campaign, Tim Russert asked him about those comments from 2004, and he said he was simply trying to help the Democratic nominees for President and Vice-President, both of whom voted for the war. So in other words, he tailed his remarks on Iraq for purely political purposes--something he accused Sen. Clinton of doing.

He lied about his health care plan and tried to call it a univeral plan, when it fact it would leave out 15 million people.

He flip-flopped on public campaign financing.

I get the impression that Obama will say and do whatever he feels the public wants him to. Which is why he'll go to South Carolina, pander to a Black audience and tell them he needs them to get "Pookie" and "Ray-Ray" out to vote. But because he doesn't want to be seen as the "Black" candidate, he won't show up for events like Tavis Smiley's State of the Black Union, and he won't show up to Memphis for the 40th year commmemoration of Dr. King's assassination.

[jefferson_dem]

22. Did you forget the "new rules"?

I think you need a refresher --

* Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party: Permitted.
* Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks against Democrats: Not permitted.
* Using this message board to work for the defeat of any Democratic Party nominee for any political office: Not permitted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6344459&mesg_id=6344459

[NYC_SKP]

27. Um, the primaries are over. You're dislike of the candidate is noted and

...it is a matter of record, in your own words here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5862073

and here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5796566

and here:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/journalist3072

Ciao.

[iconicgnom]

35. Constructive criticism - OK. Naked hostility - not so OK

[qwlauren35]

74. I don't think that's the reason.

And I'm not happy to say this but, I think there are a LOT of volunteers who could NOT articulate Obama's positions, but wanted to campaign for him.

What are you supposed to do with those people? How do you reassure them that they can make a contribution as foot soldiers, when they don't have a firm grasp on the issues?

You give them an alternative.

The people who want to know where Obama stands on the issues can get that information. Just like they can get that information on any other candidate.

But, I'm sorry. That's not what this campaign is about. At all.

Hate the American public all you want, but most do NOT have a "firm grasp" of the issues, on a detailed level. It would be disastrous for someone who doesn't, but wants to campaign, to pretend otherwise.

AND, I point out, the differences between Obama and Clinton were not substantial. So why focus on that?

His strategy was effective. AND, he has gotten a LOT of people back into the election process. Sorry. I think that getting people on the phones and into the streets with enthusiasm is more important than attempting to train these thousands of volunteers on Obama's positions on issues.

[Lisa0825]

42. Don't fucking insult me.

I am not uneducated. I know what his positions are. What I am saying is saying is that I am willing to trust his judgment during the GE because I know that one misstep in a campaign can become a "Dukakis moment." I am willing to give him some passes for now, but once he is elected, that is when it is the duty of all of us to hold his feet to the fire, as well as all our other elected officials. This election is FAR TOO IMPORTANT to even try to play the purist card and wound his candidacy in the process. The world with Bush III in charge will continue it's decline, and no amount of idealogical purity is worth that trade off.

In closing, fuck you for insulting me, jackass.

[LowerManhattanite]

44. Note that a slew...

...of that one's posts have been deleted in-thread.

Some folks have issues. Deep-seated, highly irrational issues that preclude logic and civility.

In short, don't look for an apology or much in the way of fairness there. There's a path being gone down that some people can't turn off of.

Let 'em go. :(

[Lisa0825]

47. Oh I don't expect an apology....

but I don't like to let an insult go un-challenged.

Thanks to you and the other posters for the support. :pals:

[LowerManhattanite]

48. Not a problem, L...

You stay strong! :)

[LowerManhattanite]

50. And...

...as I said to you upthread, “There's a path being gone down that some people can't turn off of.”...


Well, sometimes that path ends in a big, concrete wall...http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=155788

Cést la vie. :shrug:

[Forkboy]

43. Still voting for McCain?

"I'll vote for McCain just to do anything I can to try to keep Obama out of the WH."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[FourPieRun]

53. correct; the only thing that matters to politicians is getting elected. nt

[1Hippiechick]

63. "Do you honestly think he'll give two cents about you once he's in office?" What kind of ? is that?

[blondeatlast]

67. Did you say something? I can't hear you with that mouthful of Tombstone... nt

[FrenchieCat]

5. Just posted that sentiment on another thread.....

There is no lose option.

Those bothered about his disagreement with the SCOTUS in reference to Death for Child rape....HELLO, the court has already ruled on the matter. Obama didn't need to be Dukakissed.

[John Q. Citizen]

51. I'm taking a petition to the the Unite for Change meetings to ask him to reconsider FISA.

As far as the death penalty goes, I'm opposed in all circumstances, because I don't think government should decide who to kill, but I don't much care whether Obama believes it's constitutional or not.

That comes down to what Mark Twain calls a "corn pone opinion."

FISA, on the other hand, is currently debated government policy that's being decided soon.

It's about stripping away our constitutional rights against warrantless search and seizure, it's about the rule of law, and it's about holding power accountable for their actions.

I think Obama supporters should do him the great favor and show him the love of voicing their beliefs about this legislation. After all, we are the change we seek, it's our campaign, and if we don't behave like that then do we really believe it?

I do believe it, and will act accordingly.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

10. So you're not going to vote at all?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

14. Ok, what reasons has McCain given you to vote for him?

[jefferson_dem]

16. This one's a poser. Always has been.

Dismiss.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

23. Here are the DU rules.

Now that Senator Obama is our presumptive nominee, he holds a special position in the party, and on Democratic Underground. Barack Obama is now the only person on the planet who can stop John McCain and finally put an end to the disastrous policies of the Bush Administration. You don't have to love the guy. Heck, you don't even have to particularly like him. But if you act like you want him to lose in November we're not going to cut you a great deal of slack.

You're still allowed to criticize Democrats. And you're even allowed to criticize Barack Obama. But if your criticism smells like a partisan political attack designed to tear down our candidates and help our Republican opponents, we're likely to conclude that it is.

You may not post threats to vote third party, to vote McCain, to not vote, or to write-in a Democrat other than Barack Obama.

[LowerManhattanite]

24. Um...mod call-outs rarely turn out well...

...especially when paired with a history of above-the-top crowing about hating and working against the presumptive nominee.

Not a warning...but a statement of fact.

[Labors of Hercules]

61. apparently it was a warning.

and it went unheeded... poor thing ordered a pizza last night.

[LowerManhattanite]

71. Probably OD'ed on the Charles Bronson marathon on TMC last weekend..

When they showed all five of these...


Alas...

[jefferson_dem]

15. "Obama continues to show why I will never vote for him."

Stopped reading your post right there.

If that's your position, you don't count. Sorry.

Frankly, I'm surprised you and your typical bitterness are still around.

[JVS]

54. Shouldn't they just ban that troll, whoever it is.

I was here after the delete, so I don't know who posted that.

[Labors of Hercules]

17. Your post is so filled with blown up rhetoric and condescension...

I simply don't have time to reply adequately. If you are still around tomorrow, I will.

[Orsino]

11. Well, nothing he's likely to do will be anywhere near as devastatingly bad...

...as what the Republican death machine does every goddamned day. So he can disappoint me from now until November, and I will still have to get out and vote for him.

[Labors of Hercules]

21. I'll just say this before saying good night...

I don't think any of us can know what Obama and his staff do, and as a result it would be just a little foolish to assume we have all the facts regarding any decision they make between now and November, because they are all made based on a huge amount of information that we are simply not privy to. So while we may disagree on the surface, it is just too highly probable that there is something we don't know that we are not taking into account.

[grantcart]

26. Having been one of the few to actually pack up and move out of the country during Reagan's years

I am getting to old to just pack up and leave again - doubt I could last another Republican debacle.

[NYC_SKP]

30. Really? Well, should anything go terribly wrong this November...

Please share your experiences, more than one of us might have the same idea.

I'm not that young myself, but I made up my mind a couple years ago that unless something huge happened in America in this election cycle I would need to relocate.

Luckily, something even greater than I had hoped for did come along!

Cheers!

[Carrieyazel]

28. I always thought that the "new kind of politics" stuff was always for show.

He's a very conventional politician, and uses the same old tactics we've all seen before.

[Larkspur]

29. I will not donate to Obama's Presidential campaign

He sold out all American's 4th Amendment rights. He can pay for his campaign from his own pockets. My wallet is closed to him. I'll hold my nose and vote for him in November and that's all the support he will get from me.

[iconicgnom]

31. He doesn't have to cave to Bush.

[ecstatic]

33. Me too. It's just amusing (and sad) to see how much we pick apart

our nominee at a time like this. Yes, many of the grievances are real, but damn, can we give it a rest until after we win this thing? Sheesh.

[Phoonzang]

34. I agree completely. Enough with the whining.

He's not going to do things just to please left liberals and weaken himself with everyone else. There's plenty of time for real action after he's elected. Now he needs to do whatever necessary to win. Even if he doesn't take real action after he's elected, it'll still be better than McBush.

[DFLforever]

36. I feel the same way

I trust Sen Obama to do whatever he thinks he needs to do to win, whether I like it or not.

In fact I'm overjoyed that he's playing it hard - I think we may actually win this time.

[beyurslf]

37. I am right there with you. He can say or do whatever is needed for him to

get elected. I believe we know what type of President he will be.

[Jakes Progress]

38. Sounds like a lot of newbie star struck pap.

This is not the way to win elections. As a matter of fact, he may have cost himself the election this week. if you have been around to watch the last several elections, you would see that on every one we lost, we tried to play middle ground. We tried to convince the great unwashed that we were bubbas too, that we were almost as republican as the republicans. Gore let it be close enough to steal by playing into the idea that Bill was tarred by the republican attacks. He was afraid to use Clinton in campaigns. Then Kerry tried to play up his "I'm a soldier who will be almost as good at stopping the "terrists". America hated the incumbents but we played to the middle like we were the incumbents. And we lost. Obama is started to come off to most of America as wishy washy and soft. This vote ducking and mealy mouth excuse for changing his vote only magnifies that problem. He should have used this terrible bill as proof that you can do the right thing and win. He should have used this terrible bill as an example of the kind of thing he was going to bring to an end. Instead, he voted to continue to continue.

[FrenchieCat]

40. I think that you are wrong.

I think that Obama is playing it right.

There are certain issues such as terrorism and the death penalty that the media will make you lose no matter what if you come up with a stance that can make you appear weak.

Many of us, apart from you, have witnessed prior elections (so don't think you are the only one to have observed things).

If we had a fair media, we could stand up for certain principles.....as it is, we can only lose because the media's power is still stronger than ours, especially in a general election.\

Obama is not coming as wishy washy....perhaps except to you. Most folks aren't following the FISA Debate, and it is getting very little, if any newstime. But if Obama was to vote against this bill, than all of the sudden, we would know all that the media wants us to know about it.

Please don't overestimate your understanding of politics and underestimate that of Barack Obama's.

[Jakes Progress]

45. And I think you are wrong.

He blew a golden opportunity to control the media. He should have used this bill as an example of just the kind of Washington gamesmanship that he is against, because that is what it is. We will never get a fair media and trying to play nice for them won't work. They are going to go after him for anything, so the only way to fight it is to confront it.

Aside from a stunning lack of leadership and the loss of a perfect opportunity to slam dunk the election, he is just wrong here. Sure, he didn't see the republicans and their Democrat friends setting him up. That's because he is new at this. But he could have done the right thing and still won. Wasn't that the point of him running? Isn't that what he said could be done. Now he trades away the 4th amendment to make conservatives happy with him? Then he supports the death penalty to make conservatives happy with him? What next? Partial birth abortion? Another surge? What right of man would be too much for you? No matter how he tries to please the conservatives, he won't be able to do it. In November, after the press and the lies, they will run scared and angry back to their dark side. He needs to reflect enough light to show how we really can do good, be right, and win. That's what he said we could do.

Everyone who posts here has a high estimation of their political savvy. I've never noticed you hesitating to venture an opinion.

Please don't overestimate you understanding of Barack Obama's politics.

[kid a]

81. you know nothing about politics

[cbc5g]

39. I agree. Screw these whining idiots that get us defeated

I trust Obama a lot more then whining leftists who support the positions that always get us defeated. These people didn't like Clinton much either but guess what? He won and got liberal supreme court justices on the court. That is whats at stake here.

[paulk]

41. actually, I don't know where he stands and what he'll do

as President. I have no idea, really.

Today he backed four of the most extreme right wing judges this country has ever had.

Some will say it's for political expediency.

Some might even call it "triangulation", that is - co opting a right wing position.

It's not the first time Obama has stood with the Republicans against the majority of Democrats. Backing Republican tort reform legislation comes to mind. His support of the Bush/Cheney energy bill also stands out.

Maybe Obama isn't taking these positions because he feels he needs to in order to win this November.

Maybe they are his actual beliefs.

Like I said, I don't know...

[jgraz]

46. OK, let's hear it: where does he stand and what will he do as President?

Will he:

1) End the Iraq occupation in his first term?

2) Support criminal prosecution for the telecoms?

3) Appoint a special prosecutor for Bush/Cheney et al?

4) Appoint an international commission on war crimes?

4) Roll back Bush's power grabs?

5) End torture immediately?

6) Fire KBR, Blackwater and the rest of the leaches in Iraq?

7) Move to restore the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th amendments?

8) Propose an immediate windfall profits tax on the oil companies to be used to fund an Apollo-style green energy initiative?

9) End all subsidies for coal, oil and corn-based ethanol fuels?

10) Reduce CAFE standards and invest in light rail and other forms of mass transit?


How do we know he'll do any of that?

[pnorman]

49. The "Crisis of Confidence" Speec of Jimmie Carter:

hhttp://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/filmmore/ps_crisis.html

President Carter was the LAST President with enough respect for the American public, to tell them the truth. I'm no blind admirer of "leadership" figures; far from it. But everything I see (and sense) in Obama, tells me that he has the determination and COURAGE to do likewise. But HE (and NOT John McCain) MUST the winner in November, and by a margin that would be WAY too large to steal!

Keep close track of whatever he says and does, but have FAITH in him. If we blow it, there will be NO "second chance" in 2012! GUARANTEED!

pnorman

[FourPieRun]

52. if he gets elected, isn't he going to have to run for *re-election?* uh huh, that's the way it work

works. and if he gets re-elected, well, he'll have to worry about his legacy, and congressional midterms, trying to get a dem elected prez after him, etc. etc., so can't move too far left.

[styersc]

55. The more I read DU the more I' beginning to believe that Obama

is a cult leader.

So many willing to abandon principle over one man.

Tragic.

[Labors of Hercules]

60. two issues:

1) It is arrogant as hell to think you know enough to assume anyone is "abandoning principles" by not raising a stink over any particular decision.

2) If we WERE abandoning principles (which I am not), it would not be over one man, but over taking our Government back before it's too late.

[jonnyblitz]

62. this is a rather creepy thread isn't it?

people are admitting they are willing to be obedient little sheeple for dear leader. :puke:

[FourPieRun]

84. the signs are definitely there. nt

[Kahuna]

56. Me too. That's politics. He has to get elected before he can change

anything. That's the way the game is played.

[ravencalling]

57. If I could only vote for McCain

I would instead write in the pile of fresh dog doo on my front lawn, and hope that the doo would win because by it's nature it would help the country more then McCain ever could on his best day.

[sourmilk]

58. "We all know where he stands and what he will do?"

All I know is that where he stands today on some issues isn't where he stood six months ago.

He, like any other politician, IS ALLOWED to change or nuance his stances a bit, but I must admit that I am a tad disappointed in his changing HealthCare strategy and his abrupt about face when it comes to both public campaign financing and warrantless wiretapping.

I still think he stands head and shoulders above McSame and he looks like (at least at this stage) he should still easily be able to win the Presidency, but thse broken committments, so SOON after winning the nomination shake my convictions a little bit.

[Labors of Hercules]

64. Not to put too fine a point on it, but this point you made:

"his abrupt about face when it comes to public campaign financing..."

I have a real problem with that. 1) it is a McCain attack phrase, 2) it is completely ridiculous considering Obama has freed up 100 million in tax dollars because his campaign is already funded by "the people" directly, and 3)He would have been a fool to accept public financing considering the circumstances of the campaign at this time.

[sourmilk]

65. NOT to put too fine a point on it? Okey-dokey.

Then why parse the FISA reference out of the sentence?

1)I now know where you put all the stuff you cleaned out of the Augean stables. 2)I understand his rationale complately and furthermore understand that McLame's change of heart regarding same is worse, if not downright fraudulent and CRIMINAL. 3) Understood, as well, but chnging circumstance does not always have to mean change in policy.

One does not have to be an "Obama-basher" to disagree with Obama's policies or changes in them. I certainly have the same right to feel as disappointed as I feel, or as proud as I feel as anyone else, period. It doesn't mean that I have ANY love for McSame, however.

[Labors of Hercules]

69. simple. Time and clarity.

And I've already addressed FISA on too many other threads today and I'm at work. :shrug:

[polmaven]

59. Senator Obama is not perfect.

Thank God! Perfect people scare the crap out of me!

I disagree with him on some issues, sure. I agree with him on many more than I disagree, however. It will be up to us to hold him accountable AFTER HE IS PRESIDENT!

The thought of a McCain presidency, on the other hand, is just plain scary because it would be so far away from anything even intelligent, never mind perfect!

[Runcible Spoon]

66. ........

:puke:

That's about all this thread deserves.

[BklynChick]

68. Well, not anything IMO but if he moves to the center a bit for electibility purposes and to avoid

added Republican criticism, I'm Ok with that.

[highplainsdem]

70. Blind loyalty never helps an individual, a party, or a candidate. Not in a democracy, anyway.

If you want to make a conscious, rational decision to support a candidate in spite of his considering or taking actions that you disagree strongly with, that's okay. Presumably in that situation you've weighed actual pros and cons.

But what you said

As far as I'm concerned, Obama can do whatever he has to do to win this.

amounts to announcing complete abandonment of your individual right to evaluate that candidate, and it's a blank check for him, a license to ignore his supporters' concerns.

It's never just about the general election, one particular election. There are ALWAYS political considerations in our system, whether important Congressionl votes or the next election. It's never a case of getting over one political hurdle and then entering a utopia where a candidate who compromised to get elected will no longer be tempted to compromise even more for more political advantage. If you're uncomfortable with what a candidate is doing to get elected, you're kidding yourself if you think that candidate will never let you down after the election. You have to look at that candidate clearly and decide if you're willing to live with similar compromises after the election. Otherwise you're just putting your hands over your eyes and praying the future will be better.

Please realize, too, that in an election that will hinge on votes by moderates and independents, even the slightest hint that you've decided to give Obama a pass on everything will turn off potential Obama voters by destroying your own credibility as someone able to make rational judgments about the candidate. "Obama can do whatever he has to do" will sound like "I drank the Kool Aid" to undecided voters.

[PlanetBev]

73. I stand with Hercules

We have to win. As far as I'm concerned, we have one more time to get it right.

[barack the house]

75. You got it just right as what lies ahead is not worth the gamble of letting the gop slide through.

[eridani]

76. How does supporting FISA help him win?

Brownback still called him a "hard leftist" anyway.

[Labors of Hercules]

77. Makes indies and repukes go hmmm... maybe this guy aint so soft on National Security after all.

And the ones who are pissed about it are going to vote for him anyway because they know deep down that no matter what, if they don't vote, they will contribute to a McCain victory.

That's how it helps him.

[Runcible Spoon]

83. that's a load of crap.

voters don't buy that shit anymore. quit spreading that lie please.

[Labors of Hercules]

87. sorry... forgot this:

:sarcasm:

(I thought that was self-explanatory, but I guess not).

Edit to add a little more explanation: It doesn't help him, but he had to issue a response knowing the bill passed the House and as the leader of the party and recent nominee, it is NOT possible for him to make waves that will disrupt his Congressional support at this point. SO... That being said, stop blaming Obama for doing what he has to do and go call your nearest Democratic Senator. Capisce?

[Runcible Spoon]

91. whoops sorry guess I'm a little raw and defensive *blush*

...

[Labors of Hercules]

92. ni importa! saved a Bass for you...

:toast:

[eridani]

85. So what does spying on Americans have to do with national security?

They were doing it before 9/11, and failed to stop it. It is therefore useless or even harmful.

[HughMoran]

78. I agree

Purists never ever win.

[Carrieyazel]

79. Yeah, I agree too, even if it means lying about his long-held positions on banning handguns.

I don't care at this point. He needs to be as ruthless as possible. He has to do whatever necessary to take down the Repukes. I have no problem with him lying or saying things he doesn't believe in, if that's what it takes for him to be the next President. Everybody tells a white lie every now and then. It won't hurt him. Whatever it takes.

HE HAS TO BE DOWN AND DIRTY AND TAKE IT TO THESE REPUKES. BASED ON THE OTHER SIDE'S NASTINESS, HE HAS TO BE JUST AS NASTY. HE MUST STOP JOHN MCSAME. IF HE GETS IT DONE, HE WINS IN NOVEMBER AND THEN HE'S IN.

[Labors of Hercules]

88. woa there... don't think I'd take it THAT far... LOL.

He's proven he's more effective throwing solid punches above the belt than trying to hit below it.

[kid a]

80. k&r and thanks!!! i'd be happy to see this pinned to the top nt

[papapi]

82. I will be voting for Sen. Barack Obama in November. That is all.

[Demi_Babe]

89. agreed

[GalleryGod]

90. BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY !

Saddle-Up, Troopies!
Lock & Load, on that Corrupt Scum Bag!

Garry OWEN!!!!!