This forum amazes me some days

[WilliamPitt]

I know it is a bad idea to post when angry or frustrated, and right now I am both, so I am going to type this slowly.

We had a Democratic strategist here for a while, someone who has actual experience with national campaigning. This person wanted to harness all the good ideas that pass through here, turn them from flailing fingers into one hard fist.

Of course, some disagreed with the approach this person wanted to take, disagreed with some of the ideas, etc. Apparently, these disagreements turned personal, and now this person is gone.

There's a lot of talk here, but I have noticed over the last three years that threads devoted to actual action drop like bricks, while threads devoted to bloviation get hundreds of posts.

It's telling, and a damned shame. Looks like all we're good for, mostly, is talk.

[wtmusic]

1. I agree

What to do? Blow up the lounge?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

3. The Lounge isn't the problem. It's the hot air in GD and GD2000

It's the whining there. The Lounge is a blessed release from the crazies.

[TheRovingGourmet]

20. It's 2004! Get with the times! hehehehe

:)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

35. Oops. My bad.

:toast:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

2. A lot of people here seem to think

their feelings are more important than anything else.

[BlackJack8324]

4. I think it's the same black/white mentality

Bush uses. I've noticed some people in this forum demonize every person who disagrees with them on anything.

[swag]

5. The Rampant Armchair Quarterbacking comes as no surprise

though the unwillingness to work cooperatively toward positive outcomes does.

[Cheswick2.0]

97. put your action where you post is

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x641839

[swag]

98. Thanks, I will consider your suggestion

[blondeatlast]

6. How dare you expect DUers to

actually DO SOMETHING???

We can't be interrupted from our circular firing squad to write a letter, call someone, walk a precinct, man a booth, drive an elderly person to a polling place, ad nauseaum?

How DARE Dem_Strategist expect us to do that???

I guess that shoots the hole in my theory that one of our own made it into the inner circle, too.

[rumguy]

7. LOL - DU scared him/her away

Sorry I'm just laughing about it.

DU is a place to come for news and discussion. It is a place to come and learn how to argue the issues from a Dem perspective.

But it is NO place to try and get anything done.

[WilliamPitt]

9. I guess that's the truth

and it's a damn shame.

[MikeG]

33. It would have been nice to know who him/her was.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

42. Why? Why do people think it was someone they'd recognize.

Sometimes, DU has an over-inflated sense of its own self-importance. We had a low-level backroom strategist here. That's it.

[MikeG]

75. You're right. Don't need to know. Don't care anymore either.

[geek tragedy]

8. For many, this site is about therapy, not activism.

Why worry about helping the Kerry campaign when you can express your outrage over the minutia of his foreign policy platform that don't meet with your pet issues?

[sleepystudent]

21. Couldn't those people just go to a therapist then?

And it seems that just devoting three years to lamenting what happened in 2000 and trashing those in power and those that support him without working to end it is just ensuring more misery in one's life and on DU for four more years.

[Cheswick2.0]

96. Here you go...your chance to do something

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x641839

[Nightjock]

46. It's both for me.

[kentuck]

10. Talk is all we're good for, Will.....

But I'm not saying talk is necessarily bad. This is a forum for talk. For ideas. For communication. This is not a forum for action per se. If some people can glean some worthy ideas from all the talk and bullshit and put it into action, then, so much the better. They will be the minority. But, you are right. Talk is all we're good for, generally speaking.

[cheezus]

11. Will, what's the moral?

That the DU peasants should never disagree with the ordained DU elite?

That the activists tend to go to activist websites, and the talkers tend to go to forums?

That DU should be transformed from a site designed for bloviation to a site designed for activism?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. Who are you calling a peasant? Yourself? Or someone else? Why?

[WilliamPitt]

31. Please

That the DU peasants should never disagree with the ordained DU elite?

The slobbering-victimhood poor-widdow-me tone of that sentence is pretty vomitous.

That the activists tend to go to activist websites, and the talkers tend to go to forums?

So, in your opinion, all this place is good for is talk? Hm. In my time here, this forum has led to:

* The BBV movement

* Several candidates for state and local offices;

* Dozens of important books;

* Hundreds of rallies all across the country and the world;

If you want to change that and have this place just be a space for people to rub their woes together without fucking doing anything about them, that is a pretty pathetic thing given the activism history of this forum.

That DU should be transformed from a site designed for bloviation to a site designed for activism?

See above. Once upon a time, it was both.

[cheezus]

74. sounds good, let's do something about it!

First I'd like to clarify that I'm not trying to get into an argument with you -- I think we're on the same side of this. Also note that I have a great deal of respect for you and the work you do.


Forums and activism

So, in your opinion, all this place is good for is talk?
Absolutely not! I was wondering if that was your opinion. It sounded like you had lost hope in DU as a force for activism. Sorry I misunderstood you. I think BBV is a great example of what DU can do (and pointed that out in a reply to Walt Starr further down).

The shift from activism to hot air seems pretty obvious -- who comes to a site like this when it's small and new? Activists. Who comes once it's famous and large? Everyone.

So at this point it seems that we need to figure out how to take the DU of now - the one that has EVERYONE (not just the activists), and mobilize it.

It looks like Dem_Strategist was trying to do this but failed. This doesn't mean it's not possible.

Will Pitt, you are our Rock Star. The people on this board automatically click threads with your name next to them. You're the man. You're the one who can lead this change.

Let me know how I can help.

[Cheswick2.0]

99. Here is just such a chance

It took me about 5 minutes to organize the following action. It will take you two minutes to respond to it. If enough people do, the media will do our work for us.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x641839

[jus_the_facts]

12. And hypocrisy knows NO bounds.......

....amoung us ALL...go f'n figure.....besides there isn't much *dem* strategery that's worked against the *coroporate media* anyway is there? :eyes:

on edit...when this election turns out to be an even BIGGER fiasco than the last...the busted bubbles of hope and good intentions will be beyond disgusting. :nopity:

[GumboYaYa]

17. Nice picture!

[jus_the_facts]

39. Why thank you kindly Sir.....

.....Geaux Fightin' Tigers!! :hi:

[GumboYaYa]

13. It is a largely anonymous message board, of course it's just

talk around here. IMO you are making a big mistake if you think of it as anything other than just talk and start to take things personally. How does anyone know that the people who personally attacked Dem_Strategist (I didn't see it but I didn't follow all her/his threads closely) aren't Repub strategists or plants or just angry people?

Attacks from anonymous Internet posters should be like water on a duck. Anyone who takes it seriously, is missing the forest for the trees.

The value of DU outside of being a great source for information is that many of the particpants do take the knowledge and information gained from discussions on here and apply them in their personal efforts against GWB. B/c of the size and commitmment of that group of people, it is worth wading through the reams of BS that pile up around here sometimes.

[Lex]

14. I'm sorry he's gone, but I don't understand why he left.

If it's because of 'personal' attacks, then I'm still confused--I would think filtering out that noise would be necessary no matter where he goes or what he does.

There are detractors and bloviators EVERYwhere, not just here. It's a part of life, it's a part of what you have to learn to work around in order to be successful.

JMHO.

[wndycty]

15. Hey Will do you think we can talk D.S. into posting in Activism or

Campaign Underground, where his or her posts my get more of a productive response?

[Walt Starr]

16. I'm with you

and am thoroughly disgusted.

FR gets used by the right. Look at the Smear Boat Liars for truth, they were organized and implemented via the work of the Freepers.

But DUers can't get their shit together for five minutes in order to accomplish a similar goal that uses truth instead of lies.

I'm just, ...disgusted.

[cheezus]

28. Bev Harris: BBV: Something's happening. These people at DU deserve a salut

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2225494&mesg_id=2225494

yep, DU is completely worthless

[K8-EEE]

18. I Know It Can Seem Like That BUT...For Me At Least...

DU has taken me from sort of an armchair Dem (just voted Dem, didn't DO anything) to a practicing Dem who does volunteer and has the confidence to speak out everywhere -- just at the gym this morning a woman was going on about how there was no difference between Kerry and Bush and I gave her a list of differences and even some sources.

DU does make a difference. It really keeps me informed, not only about the Dem campaign but the strategies of the GOPs. It's just made me a lot more confident about speaking out and YES I have some converts. Not GOP to Dem (although I know a couple who have reached that conclusion on their own) but non-voters to voters (my babysitter and my hairdresser are registering to vote.)

The squabbles and venting are just a natural by-product; I just donated to DU and I really, really appreciate this site, squabbles and all.

[alarcojon]

58. I second your sentiment

and I will add that Dem Strategist was more unintentionally condescending and intentionally cryptic than he/she needed to be

[sleepystudent]

19. revelation

"Looks like all we're good for, mostly, is talk."

You're only figuring that out now?

I wonder how many of the people here actually are involved in politics beyond voting( not that voting isn't important-duh ). Posting on DU *is* just talking about politics-people shouldn't delude themselves into thinking it's anything more.

[deutsey]

Right. I basically come to DU for news and views and info on

actions that I might want to participate in offline.

In terms of my activism, I do that offline locally for the most part.

There is a lot of good stuff posted here. There's a lot mental masturbation too. You just need to be careful where you step, I guess.

[kentuck]

30. But it's not just "talking"....

It's an attempt to understand and explain what is happening to our Party, our country, and our people. It is talk but it is not "just talk". It is talk with a purpose. How can anyone be an activist or how can anyone know which direction to go if they do not understand the purpose of what they are doing??

[WilliamPitt]

Didn't used to be

In my time here, this forum has led to:

* The BBV movement

* Several candidates for state and local offices;

* Dozens of important books;

* Hundreds of rallies all across the country and the world;

Once upon a time, we could talk *and* act. Staggering.

[kentuck]

52. Will, it's the thought that leads to action....

Do not underestimate the power of thought or communication in the process of activism...

[Screaming Lord Byron]

44. deleted, wrong place.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

22. There's assholes everywhere

we're no exception

[WI_DEM]

23. with due respect

to D_S but if he/she can't take some hostile feedback in a political discussion forum then maybe they are in the wrong profession. I'm sure the real world of politics is much more cutthroat. I looked over many of the posts that D_S started and the responses by and large seemed positive and encouraging. Yes, some people did question the advice but not all in a discourteous way and the few who did aren't worth throwing in the towel over. But if D_S feels they must leave, so be it.

[Walt Starr]

27. With due respect, Corsi asks for some help on FR

and BAM, Smear Boat Liars for Bush are born.

A Democrat asks for some help on DU, and BAM, nothing but flames.

And some people wonder why the Repukes always win.

:eyes:

[WI_DEM]

45. Not true, Walt

and I respect you enormously. People were being helpful. D_S wanted us to monitor the media and write letters to the editor, and I've done that--and so are alot of other people here. I just think that a few hostile responses is not the reason to throw in the towel here. I think most people on this forum are working for a dem victory. Voluntering. writing letters, ect. I do think as people we get discouraged by somethings and I don't really think it hurts to share that feeling on a discussion board. I think some people take this board way too seriously.

[The empressof all]

87. In addition....

Not everyone who is here on a daily basis feels compelled to respond to every thread they read or find interesting. There are many here who work hard behind the scenes in ways they can to support a Dem victory. Sorry D__S did not feel welcomed here. I'm sure most of us have had that experience here one time or another.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

82. That's not how it happened.

Posted by Walt Starr: "With due respect, Corsi asks for some help on FR and BAM, Smear Boat Liars for Bush are born. A Democrat asks for some help on DU, and BAM, nothing but flames. And some people wonder why the Repukes always win."

That's not how it happened. It was organized by the not-so-swift vets and Bush/Rove connected moneybags and Spaeth, the operative. The New York Times article makes no mention of FR in the formation (FR mentioned only anonymously as a place Corsi posted garbage to). If you have a contrary reference it would be interesting to see it.

Furthermore, the Republicans do not always win. Clinton was President for eight years. How soon people forget.

[JI7]

48. i don't think it has anything to do with not being able to take hostible

feedback.

i think it's about he/she having a strategy they thought would work through du and maybe some other places online. but it just isn't working.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

53. Being 'able' to deal with

hostile feedback is one thing, finding more hostility than cooperation in a place where you went to find allies is something else.

[LimpingLib]

24. 90% at the convention disagreed with the war.

But it was the most united convention ever because everybody bent over backwards. This is the second most friendly place for mainstream Democratic views.And its open every day year round.

It wasnt a lack of people being polite that caused an insider to get fusterated. Democrats have turned into the most polite bunch around.Any more polite and Prep H wouldnt do the trick even on its best day.

With so much bending over , the base sure wants a win this year .

Its the elite insiders job to deliver the win. They need to prove something to us not vice versa. This is their game. They make all the calls and to hell with us.They call the shots.

No dissapointment need be directed at us. Aim it at your chess masters.

[NV1962]

25. Nope, Will

You, of all people, should know that one can't judge "the Democrats" by this forum.

Volume is no substitute for an argument, either.

But thanks for the opportunity to express my appreciation for contributions of people like Dem_Strategist, even when I didn't participate in "his" (her?) topics...

I guess that's how best to respond here, actually.

[WilliamPitt]

38. I'm not judging 'the Democrats'

'The Democrats' are running a nationa presidential campaign, hundreds of congressional campaigns.

I'm judging DU, with its thumb squarely planted up its collective ass.

[NV1962]

49. "There you go again..."

Why did you include that "collective" in there, hm?

Look, I understand you're teed off. So am I. But idiocy is best countered with intelligence - that's how Kerry is going to take the WH, and "the Democrats" will (re)conquer Congress, too.

Letting steam off over myopic irrationality is one thing, going off the deep end with generalizations (e.g. "collective") is proving the morons right.

Well, I started with Reagan, so to balance: "I feel your pain."

;)

[yardwork]

85. I must have missed something big because I just don't see it

This board is well-moderated and tolerates very little in the way of flaming and personal attacks.

[LimpingLib]

40. Yea , go to other forums within the left sphere of influence.

The truth is they can make this site look right of center most of the time. "the Democrats" here overall arent too radical .

Im getting sick of many saying things like "you dont understand ,the rest of the nation isnt so left wing like us here at DU" .

Its a smear IMO.

[NV1962]

56. You're confusing diversity with representativity

For the record, I have no problem with "radicals" - whatever that concept means when applied to a message board.

I do have a problem with people claiming to represent "the majority."

That might be taken as a smear, although personally I prefer to cast that as absurd if not delusional, if at all I should bother.

[LimpingLib]

65. Sharp responce. I agree.

How you can so quickly point out the varying degrees of arogance of some is beyond me.

I wonder who is to blame anyway if "the Demorats" dont win? The average citizens or the elite?

Maybe the elite dont represent "the majority" (these quotes are fun)as they claim?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

62. It is.

[KC21304]

26. All I can say is I am very sorry this happened.

I didn't understand exactly what he wanted us to do, but I also didn't participate in the negative posts. It is our loss.

[Norquist Nemesis]

32. Good post Will!

In the same frame of mind as you at the moment... so for the rest of today, I'm going to reply to the "I'm so mad at <fill in blank>" topics with a) What's the plan? b) What are you going to do about it? c) Can you paste a copy of your letter along with contacts for all of us? etc.

[AmerDem]

34. Hey, I stood in Dem_Strategist corner!

I was involved in some heated exchanges against these negative, whining armchair strategists you are speaking of!

Is Dem_Strat gone for sure? I just read a thread started by Dem_Strat this morning. It is truly a shame if this is the case.

[asjr]

36. We at Du come from all walks of life with

different opinions. We welcomed Dem Strategist and are sorry he/she did not stay. There were very good ideas from him/her. But all of us are dedicated to one thing--get rid of this corrupt administration. We don't have all the answers. That is why there are so many different reasons. I hope you can persuade Dem Strategist to return.

[qwlauren35]

37. Actually....

There IS a forum for ACTION. It's the Activism forum.

It's just that no one reads it.

The GD and GD:Campaign 2004 forums pretty much ARE for talk.

And of course, that's where the majority of folks lurk! :-)

Perhaps Dem_Strategist should have come here, announced his or herself, and then headed over to the Activism forum and held court.

I think the people there are about action and sharing ideas about action.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20.

[BeatleBoot]

41. Its Like Herding Smoke

[bambo53]

43. Quite a coincidence huh?

Dem_strategist shows up here when? His views are what? He will miss who? He's angry that not everyone agrees with him? Is there a control freak Dr. in the house?

[WilliamPitt]

47. Find a mirror

and see the problem.

[bambo53]

57. Welcome back Will

We listen to you. You are a superb writer and a passionate promoter for our side. Keep plowing straight ahead, and lead the way, don't try to steer.:)

[Malva Zebrina]

68. more than one, I would say -eom

[TheRovingGourmet]

50. Well, if the guy was who he said he was, whoever that was,

and was a part of some sort of national campaign, for someone or the other, and had experience in something or the other, then he should have known that there was going to be criticism, both constructive and destructive, to deal with. He didn't. I also did not see him post anything that would be useful in my neck of the woods. I hope I was not rude to him; I certainly did not mean to be but he was a little short of specifics that I would call actionable.

I am very active in doing my part down here and have had a lot of success working for causes that I support. Frankly, a lot of the strategy employed by the Kerry campaign seems odd to me, but that is mainly a regional issue. Thankfully, Edwards will be doing most of the talkin' out this way.

[goodhue]

51. Diversity is Strength

Courage in the face of adversity essential.
Lots of us have experiences and do not lord it over others.
Tolerance is often in short supply on DU and that is sad.
Thankfully, there is an ignore function.
Maybe Dem Strat should have tried it out.

:think:

[DemNoir]

54. It is a sad fact DU cannot handle any pressure

The last 72 hours or so have to be the worst in DU history,worse even than the primary season. Every challenge is responded to the same way, by whining,sniping and enhancing the already effective Republican spin.

We wonder why Democrats cant gain any traction with the public, five minutes around here will reveal the answer.

Here we are faced with an emergency situation, another Bush term will spell utter disaster for our nation and we all know it. We have a fine candidate, one so superior to the President in every way that it should make for an easy sale. But what do we do when the first shot is fired? We run screaming pointing the finger of blame at everyone as we retreat. Did you think this would be easy?

I still believe in John Kerry and the collective wisdom of the American public. I have totally lost faith in this community, it cant get past its own egos long enough to play on a team.

[CarolynEC]

55. Dem_Strategist could have done himself a big favor...

... by skipping the cloak-and-dagger nonsense. Parachuting into a board full of intelligent and naturally skeptical people with this "Deep Throat" routine was just stupid.

"I'll reveal my identity later." "Suffice it to say there are many high-ranking democrats who..." Implying connections with the Kerry campaign and then denying the implication was made... that's ridiculous, too.

And then the "strategies" themselves: complaining that the media is biased? Replicating the work of half a dozen other media-watch groups? And to what end? That was never made clear. Questions regarding how this would make a positive impact in the few weeks remaining to elect John Kerry... no answers.

I think you're wrong to lash out at DU participants who didn't greet Dem_Strat with flowers and tears of joy. He was judged on what he claimed to contribute, and found lacking by many of us. Even so, some of us agreed to just back off while he did his thing with those who wanted to participate. Now we learn he's taken all his toys and gone home.

What crap. That, too, speaks volumes about this person's ability. If there were instances where it became "personal," it was most evident in the whining that he was being misunderstood, and the refusal to spell out just what he was after. How about responding to the concerns of one's audience, and re-tooling one's message accordingly? Nope.

Dem_Strat's departure from this forum is not an indictment of the other forum participants. It's the result of his own lack of skill at marketing a message and motivating a team.

[goodhue]

61. Very well put!

The experiment, whatever is was, was not impressive nor well executed. No insights provided that were not self evident and no action plan proposed other than what many are already doing. And the cloak and dagger stuff was downright juvenile.

[KittyWampus]

71. Flowers & Tears Of Joy? When People Resort To Exaggeration

to try and make a point... it's usually because they know subconsiously they have a weak case.

Someone tried to get something going. Soemone who apparently has a unique and useful perspective.

And some people with thin skins and inferiority complexes decide to dump on that person.

Congratulations to everyone who used another DU'er to take out their own frustrations and disappointments.

[CarolynEC]

80. Um, it's a turn of phrase. Don't be afraid of language, okay?

Remember the whole "American troops greeted with flowers" thing? Nothing more than a current usage.

And here's the thing: The uniqueness and usefullness of "Someone's" perspective was not at all apparent. I -- and many others -- simply asked questions about what the goals and strategy were.

And now, by commenting on my post, you've accused me of being thin-skinned, having an inferiority complex, and using another DUer to take out my frustration, etc.

I think you've got a lot of damned nerve. And I thin perhaps it's you who are projecting a few inner doubts, if your response to criticism is nothing but put-downs.

[KittyWampus]

84. Perfect Example. Thanks For Demonstrating My Point

[CarolynEC]

90. Whuh? What are you talking about?

What is the example and how have I demonstrated your point?

[realFedUp]

79. Thank you CarolynEC

I agree with your comments. People on this board
have been way ahead of any strategists, paid or
unpaid. Any campaign just needs to read the comments
to get a sense of direction.

[incapsulated]

89. Excellent post

You've pretty much voiced my opinion on this matter. I don't understand the crying over DS's departure. His/her message seemed to be: Kerry knows what he is doing, the media is the enemy, write the editor. Oh, and silly little quiz questions about the obvious media bias that is already written about, documented and analyzed here every single day. And some "project" to collect information about who is liberal/not a liberal in the media? Wha? And this will help Kerry how, exactly, with a few months to go?

Whatever. Those of us who are "activist" will continue to be with or without our mystery guest.

[TheDonkey]

93. Bravo

Dem_Strat's main problem was his secretive identity. It's a shame we weren't able to do more to harness DU's talent but soapbox wars is not the way.

[Rowdyboy]

59. Far too many approached D_S like they did study hall monitors

in middle-school. They resent any adult intervention/direction and responded with anger and rudeness. Anonymous boards are really good for that.

I'm really sorry D_S is gone but I'm afraid she was mostly wasting her time here anyway. DU is mostly about childish copycat threads and flame-wars these days. He/she could spend his/her time more usefully calling people randomly from the phone book.

[0007]

60. Hey DU has me out hustling voter registerations, and I'm getting some.

...DU inspire me to buck the odds in Midland Texas to fight for what I believe in the most.

All talk? Not indeed!!

Cool your jets Will.

[grasswire]

63. here's the trouble, Will

The person who came here got off on the wrong foot by talking down to a group of individuals who have been doing trench warfare for years and who know more than the strategist about certain aspects of the battle.

Then, the person asked DU-ers to work on a task that has little seeming purpose.

All I saw was a "smarter-than-the-rabble" sort of attitude.

It is true that Dems in leadership (outside of the Dean campaign and moveon.org) have failed to tap the power of the tens of thousands of netizens.

Republicans have accomplished the same task very professionally and officially. (And the RNC even pays activists to work message boards and chat rooms.)

Bottom line: DU-ers (thanks, BuyCitGo!) were wrestling this swifty story weeks ago. We know what needs to be done. The big-time strategists better recognize that a lot of people are ahead of them.

[rumguy]

77. What was the task they wanted to accomplish?

[murielm99]

64. I AM an activist!

I come here for news and ideas.

I did not flame the strategist.

Maybe the strategist should have come here for news and ideas too, but anonymously.

If he can't take the heat, why is he in politics?

[RhodaGrits]

66. I was stunned by his decision to cease posting.

I would have thought someone in his line of work would be able to filter out the nonsense and continue a dialog of suggestions of what we can do to help our cause. I did take some of his suggestions to heart and I don't know how you can possibly assume that the only response was "all talk". Many of us are taking positive local action in our communities and in the campaign with the media but we are not writing about it here. We do, however, read his posts. Or rather did read his posts since he's apparently decided to fade into the background.

I'm seriously concerned about a professional that takes his toys and goes home because he took some postings on an internet board personally. I did think that moving his(her?) discussions out of GD/GD Campaign 2004 was a good one but since the door has been slammed, the point is moot.

[sondee]

67. Dem Strategist Gone!

I'm new to the Democratic Underground, but I really hate to read that we've lost such a valuable person. I found it comforting to know that he/she was here and that some of our ideas might actully be read.

[bluedog]

69. so Will are you

saying that DS just hits the board and leaves?.....That his opinions are far better and out weigh the opinions of us posters who have been on this board since the start?........

and now you are angry at us for voicing those opinions?........
DS did come on with cloak and dragger ...acted like he worked directly with Kerry and Edwards..then he says no.....well......like I said we are very active strategists.......
and I am sorry that you don't approve of the way we handle ourselves......

[madfloridian]

70. Yes, Will, I have posted many threads about our activism in our area.

I did it to make a point, and they did drop. People would rather castigate any of us who say we are not addressing the issues yet.

We are not, you know.

You can keep starting threads like this all day, and they will get attention.

We have been begging our party to wake up and smell the roses forever, and now comes DS telling us more nuance.

Sorry, but I am voting for Kerry and reserve the right to respond when being talked about as part of the group of folks who just won't shut up and fall in line properly.

We donate to Kerry and we will vote for him.....stop doing these threads about us.

[swag]

72. Second reply - the despair is overblown

I'm sorry the person left, and I had hoped that I would be able to learn something from that person's presence. I think I may have. I guess the main lesson I got from D_S was that calm thinking, focus, and long-term strategy are more important than flopping around like a fish on a hot griddle, like the Smearboaters and Rove want us to do.

DU has its own internal noise-machine/echo-chamber (and it mimics closely in almost every respect the CNN/FOX noise machine), and the fieriest threads tend, in my view anyway, to be about things that have little ultimate impact beyond distracting us from our common goals, beyond forcing us to lose focus, beyond getting us into internecine squabbles on what are ultimately trivial reality TV matters (Michelle Malkin. I mean, really, who gives a shit?).
So I try to stay mostly out of the TV digest threads lately. But some folks seem to thrive talking about TV shows, ("know your enemy"), so I have no doubt that there's some value there too, even though I don't find any.

But that having been said I do love the media activism threads, the informational threads, the threads which supply valuable sourced information which help make me a more informed and effective citizen.

Things do get accomplished here. The state forums is where a lot of the burgeoning action is. People are getting active at the local and state levels and coordinating through DU, but there is still a ton of untapped potential there. I'm no DU heavyweight, mind you, but my big desire is for the State forums to grow in activity as we approach Nov.2. There is a lot of work to be done at the state level, for both state and national offices.

At any rate, I'm sorry whoever that was got cheesed and left, but I think this morning's wailing and gnashing of teeth over DU's alleged worthlessness is overblown, and I think the condemnations aren't terribly helpful.

johnkerry.com has a list of things people can do to make a positive impact on the presidential election. These all strike me as quite valuable things to do, and I see a hell of a lot of people on DU actively organizing, participating, and encouraging others to participate on these matters:

Contribute to DNC
Be a Volunteer
Volunteer Center
Recruit Friends
Voter Outreach
Contact Media
Raise Money
Plan/Attend Events
Kerry Core

I have done the main things I feel comfortable doing: Contributed, Raised Money, Contacted Media, Planned and Attended events. I have seen other people here doing much more than that. Though I imagine that there are very few DUers who have done nothing but vote, I would urge everybody to choose at least one thing from the list, get active on it, and stay active on it.

And don't be so down in the mouth. We have an election to win. Eat your vitamins, get some sunshine, enjoy your friends and family, and do what you can to make this a great country again.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

73. People come here to sit at a keyboard and bloviate

'action' in the real world beyond is either secondary, inclusive to, or exclusive and nonexistant.
Anyway, I liked DS.

[madfloridian]

76. As you are doing right now.

So that is like the pot calling the kettle black.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

86. Thanks for pointing that out. I had no idea.

:freak:

[bigtree]

104. I've been editorializing for years,writing letters before I got a computer

Bloviating is not how I view my efforts. I am sincerely trying to make a difference. It's not vanity (this board dissolves any delusions of grandeur). There is an opportunity to help further the debate and possibly educate. And learn. I do a lot of reading here (listening). Also, this site is a springboard for activism, despite the frustrating few who take the best efforts of writers and discount them with a sneer. This board does indeed reflect the difficulty in actually affecting opinion, but I have been told by many posters that many more read but do not respond. This is an unbelievable opportunity to contribute to the national debate. We have visitors from around the world, news makers and news breakers. There is no equal on or off of the net for the average joe to participate with the opportunity to make a difference.

I debated here for about six months, so I wrote this book Power Of Mischief , influenced by the discussions and debate that I experienced here. It started out as just another long post, and I just kept going.

[Jacobin]

78. Cue the violins

I particularly loved his breathlessly original idea about documenting media bias against Kerry and handing out assignments to DUers, all of which has been done and cataloged for months.

A self-proclaimed Strategist preaching to many here who have been fighting the fight for years, as if he has arrived from on high to announce "what must be done" is a bit off-putting, and certainly not effective.

If he can't strategize enough to have interpersonal skills sufficient to deal with DUers, then he's fucked anyway.

And then he leaves in a public huff. :eyes:

very impressive.

jeebus help us if this guy really does have some influence in Kerry's campaign.

(oh, and thin skin is NOT a prerequisite for politics)

[Bruce McAuley]

81. Nope, not a damned shame...

It would be nice to galvanize everyone here, all 48,000 of us to go out and start jumping up and down at the rallies or writing letters to the editor, or signing up new voters or doorbelling for the candidates or telephone trees or...you get the idea, but it is an impossibility as D_S realized pretty quickly. We are a large collection of INDIVIDUALS, and that's the way we will MOSTLY stay.
The analogy to the local Democratic party here in Republic is striking. This is nothing new. I've watched it happen in local politics in this area for decades in a VERY small community(WAY smaller than DU), and the point is this: The job normally gets done at the last minute in an expedient though slapdash fashion by the ones who DO care. They ARE out there, usually a very small percentage of the population(think Bev Harris here).
The Republic Republicans(sorry, couldn't resist!:hi:) are ALWAYS more well organized, they HAVE to be, as a minority special interest group. In Republic they have WEEKLY meetings, fer crying out loud! The Dems are lucky if they have one every couple of months.
A Democratic strategist would walk away from Republic, too!
We DO manage to elect Dem candidates, though.
When the shit gets thick, the thick get to shittin'!
As in the grassroots, so in the Webroots.
Nothing new here citizens, just pull the lever back to "recline" and turn on the Nightly News, if that's your wont, but don't say you weren't warned!
/soapbox
:hi:

Bruce

[realFedUp]

83. Have a little faith

in this board and the people. You used to
have it....everything is as it should be.

[wildeyed]

88. Might be a good idea to organize something outside of DU,

just use DU as a recruiting ground for new talent. That is the only way something coherent will come out of it. It might not be a bad idea to organize an elite crew of rapid response letter writers to cover the national press. Invite DU regulars who are well informed, well written and not too nuts. Pick a couple of leaders to decide on weekly topic and have at them.

On the plus side, dem_strategist's posts did help me get more focused on contacting the press about their lies. Also, I have not abandoned the idea of starting a media watch group in my own city to focus on the local media. So ideas are sprouting.

[Cheswick2.0]

91. Did he suggest some action? I mean other than what we have been doing?

All I saw was some have assed attempt educate us about what they already know "The media sucks", and suggest that we organize and write to the media. Well we have been doing that. The Dean rapid response team has morphed into a Kerry rapid response team.
People have been writing and calling a faxing to the media for years.
What is missing is fast acion and a smart strategy of the professionals. Whoever told Kerry to answer the way he did on the IWR vote should be fired immediately.

[troublemaker]

92. The person you glowingly refer to was divisive and ineffective

That person was no martyr; when you consider his rank incompetence and arrogance and divisive methods I would say he was extended more comparative courtesy than anyone has ever received on DU.

Anyone else would have been flamed to oblivion. Instead, many people bit their tongues, horrified by the person's behavior, but not wanting to hurt the cause.

Rather than being angry with the board perhaps you ought to ask whether this person made even a minimal effort to learn how to communicate with people or even how to interact on an internet message board.

Bottom line; he talked to people like they were dogs. No matter what his intentions were a paid troll couldn't have sown more discord.

He (or she) may be a lovely person in real life, but all of any of us that exists on the internet is data--a simulacrum of a person built of words. His online persona built of his own words was cancerous and he showed nothing but disdain for people who genuinely wanted to help him stop being such a #$%@.

If he tries to understand what happened and comes back in a different guise with a better attitude I am sure people will meet him more than half-way.

MODS: This post is a defense of DU, not an attack on an un-named party. Will Pitt has chosen to post *about* an individual at DU. I am responding to Pitt's criticism of myself and a number of other DUers. The primary defense of ourselves is to speak plainly about the person Pitt is promoting.

So this isn't a personal attack originated by me. It's a complex rules issue, and one that could have been avoided by Pitt by not posting this divisive thread in the first place.

[WilliamPitt]

94. "he talked to people like they were dogs"

Cite an example, please.

[TheDonkey]

Well...

I personally am not anti-Dem_Strat. I believe he could have provided a great service to DU but there are examples of him patronizing DU.

One of his last posts is a good example. I believe it was titled "Dem_Strat: Why is the Swift Boat Smear Spreading" the message, "Simple answer."
Now, what exactly was the point of that post, and what do you think the tone could be taken as.

[troublemaker]

103. Where to start...

Only people within campaign hierarchies should look at polls

Kerry is playing chess while you are playing checkers

And taking several successive posts to slowly introduce our fragile little minds to the brand new concept that the media has a pro-Bush slant. Wow! Who knew?

With Professor Harold Hill on hand, DU's gonna have a boy's band...

When you have a person who fancies himself a communicator or political operative, yet who cannot communicate or shape events, where does the blame sensibly lay? Shouldn't you be talking to your buddy about how to be less divisive instead of criticizing everybody else for being divided?

You are blaming the pond for the ripple. And you are pissing me off because I promised Skinner I would stop criticizing the guy for the sake of comity, and here this post is gratuitously re-opening the whole miserable business.

[rumguy]

95. I guess I must have missed

when he talked to people like they were dogs.

Granted, I didn't follow DS's posts.

But come on now - he didn't really talk to people like they were dogs, did he?

[ibegurpard]

100. The person came here with comletely unrealistic expectations

If they were looking for a sounding board to see how ideas would play and to get feedback then they came to the right place. If they were looking for a malleable army of soldiers to direct on a strategy that has already been decided then I'm not surprised they were disappointed.

[LuminousX]

101. This is not the place for it

It was an interesting experiment, but this isn't the place for D_S, or at least not in the wilds as a whole. A strongly moderated forum that keeps the discussion focused is where D_S should be running this experiment.

It was a good idea poorly implemented. You can't expect the DU population to treat one particular user differently than they treat everyone else.

[Deb]

102. I'm just a volunteer

Any ideas I take to the local level need approval from the Chair but it sure would have been nice to have a source for creating some type of media rebuttal list to use during cold GOTV calling.

Maybe I didn't understand what the strategist wanted from us and it's certainly sad to see him/her go.

[Skinner]

105. I'm locking this thread.

Please see here for my thoughts on this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=641274&mesg_id=642098&page=