Obama: Automakers need research funds

[DainBramaged]

Presidential hopeful Barack Obama told General Motors CEO Rick Wagoner and other economic leaders today that he sees a "surprising consensus" on what needs to be done to fix the nation's economy.

Obama, an Illinois senator and the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, made the declaration at the close of an economic roundtable today at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh.

One point of agreement is the need for federal investment in new technology, Obama said.

Obama has proposed a $150 billion green energy fund that he says will create 5 million new jobs and help "the great assembly-line manufacturers" build vehicles that run on alternatives to fuel from imported petroleum.

Obama also quipped to Wagoner and others that, as president, he "looks forward to working with you over the next eight years."

Wagoner sat to Obama's immediate left and offered some now-familiar ideas about what the federal government can do to help the automobile industry: spend money on research and provide incentives for consumers to buy advanced technology vehicles.

The session was Obama's second in two days that included face time with top auto industry leaders.

Ford Motor Co. CEO Alan Mulally was one of a group of business executives who met with Obama in Chicago on Wednesday, June 25.

Mulally, in a statement, called the meeting "very productive" and said he was "pleased to share the perspective on the important role American manufacturers play."

The events are seen as part of efforts by Obama to firm up his economic credentials as his contest with Sen. John McCain of Arizona, the presumptive Republican nominee, begins to heat up.

High gasoline prices, worries about climate change and the financial struggles of U.S. industry will make automakers, suppliers, dealers and their employees important factors in the unfolding campaign.

McCain is scheduled to visit GM's Lordstown, Ohio, assembly plant on Friday, June 27. The plant, which makes the Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac G5 sedans, is increasing production to help GM sell more fuel-efficient vehicles.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20080626/ANA02/94772905/1176 (subscription only, reposted in full).

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AllentownJake]

2. The money needs to be accounted for

if it is given to them. We give research grants to Universities alot of which are private institutions. No problem with auto-makers but they account for every cent they spent and are held accountable for results.

[DainBramaged]

3. We're talking about a DEMOCRATIC administration, one that stresses ACCOUNTIBILITY

[JuniperLea]

10. Uh huh...

And you trust Obama not to flip this too? Like he flipped FISA...

I'm voting for Obama, no question. I just choose NOT to wear rose colored glasses.

[Coexist]

4. Imagine if they got research grants, and

we had healthcare costs that didn't kill their budgets, what we could accomplish - the quality vehicles we could put out at competitive prices. Good jobs, good products.

[DainBramaged]

6. We put a man on the moon, did the Japanese?

Imagine if the Government partnered with industry to develop alternative fuel technology, safer vehicles, world class petro (diesel) engine technology, how far could we go?

[JuniperLea]

14. Imagine if the American auto industry had taken a clue...

from the gas lines in the 70's and other indicators and actually researched fuel efficiency themselves instead of researching how to build more muscle cars!

[uponit7771]

5. I've been railing against the US big 3 for weeks now, they did JUST like Bush by sitting there while

...gas prices attacked their mainstay product and didn't change lines to more efficient cars till recently.

Why do the leaders of the big 3 deserve a dime

[DainBramaged]

8. Do you have any idea how long it takes to engineer a new product?

Do you understand that the Japanese started working on the Prius in 1995, and that GM decided against the risk because they didn't have the funding to spend on the technology? Do you even know how many parts go into making an automobile? How many companies supply the parts? How the vehicles are assembled?

These aren't balsa models we're talking about, but I guess you believe in miracles.

[JuniperLea]

12. Do you have any idea how long the auto industry has seen this coming?

And their answer was to start building muscle cars again... and you trust that. Jeez.

[madrchsod]

17. everyone of those cars they have built are sold

or on a waiting list.....

[JuniperLea]

24. Stupid all around, no question

They were out to make money, period. They have been very short-sighted for a very long time.

All those big cars and SUVs are quickly becoming white elephants. Too expensive to feed, no one else wants them, and the emotional attachment is too great to let it go.

[madrchsod]

16. it`s a lost cause to argue the fact that the Japanese government

has funded every fucking industry that has completed against us and i`ll add the korean`s and taiwanese. of course never mention that the auto industry is paying billions in healthcare and retirement benifits that the japanese do not pay yet in the usa.

[DainBramaged]

18. And we can't build assembly plants there

some competition. Our politicians gave away the farm and now there are millions of people that think Japanese cars are American cars. How stupid.

[JuniperLea]

20. Japan has a combo of socialized medicine and universal healthcare

And their corporate heads are under close scrutiny to account for every yen, while our corporate heads are only out for big bonuses.

It really is apples and oranges to compare Japan's auto industry to ours... or any other industry for that matter.

[uponit7771]

21. True, I think one of the tell tales is our Big 3 sat there for over 3 yeas & did very little to make

...produce and sell 30 mpg city 40 mpg cars.

[JuniperLea]

25. I'm a lot harder on them... 30 years...

We had gas lines 30 years ago, and a lot of the Japanese auto makers had already begun flooding our market with cheap, small, fuel efficient cars. They saw us building muscle cars, and got in on some of that action too, but were smart enough to keep the research going in the fuel efficiency and low emissions area.

I used to drive an SUV... now my kids are grown... I drive a Japanese car that gets 30+ mpg and is an ultra low emissions vehicle... I had no choices in the American cars... I would have gladly bought American. I bent over backward trying to convince myself there was something comparable, but the reality was too clear.

Thirty years. They wasted 30 years. The writing was on the wall and they chose to keep the blinders on... and Americans chose to remain ignorant too and gobbled up those muscle cars... year after year. Stupid is as stupid does... now they want money. My money. Yours. To catch up to where they should have been heading all along.

[blues90]

26. I agree completely

The big three went with the trend and soaked up the money and did not give one thought to efficient cars , instead they built larger and lager SUV's because they created the demand for them , now they want help. Hypocrites , every last one of them.

[DainBramaged]

42. I guess the Japanese don't build gas guzzling SUV's and big trucks either?

Hypocrite

[blues90]

49. Really ?

I worked for over 33 years for one of the big three and they were the pioneers of the huge SUV's and of bringing back the V-8 to the V-10. And they brought in the lowest bidder deal where parts are made everywhere other than here.

Tell me they could have not done a hell of a lot better if they really gave a damn.

So don't call me a hypocrite when I sight the truth.

I worked on their cars and trucks for many years and then became a manager who dealt with every customer concern and they were justified concerns on just how poor the quality was with countless and endless recalls on brand new cars. Many recalls were done before the units could even be sold , try telling a customer they are wrong when they are right. Try keeping them trusting and defending what you know is a lie.

I saw first hand how the quality went down the drain. Go spend 35,000 plus interest on a new car and have it towed in with a blown engine on day one and then try to justify this as if it was a fluke.

You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about unless you are some engineer then you should be ashamed.

[DainBramaged]

53. (sigh) I noticed you won't inform us as to who you worked for, and I love how

so many of you site incidents from decades ago. I work for them NOW and the quality is so far superior to anything built prior to 2000 it isn't funny. Keep your jaded opinions, I don't give a shit. And like everyone else, you refuse to answer the question about the Japanese because you KNOW it's true, you just don't want to admit they are as fallible as everyone else.

[blues90]

56. Here you go then

I worked for ford beginning in the early 70's . The first recall I saw was the pinto gas tank because of a fuel filler pipe going into the tank on rear impact.

There was not one area on their cars i did not work on through the years. Car's as well as trucks in the 70's did not come in for much other than normal maintainence. They lasted years without trouble other than normal wear. In the 80's parts began being made in Japan and china like electronic componants and wiring hasnessess even on the crown victoria. Plastic parts that fell off , plastic parts that break with little effort and all sorts of leaks and rattles and squeaks as well as cheap transmissions that blew with little wear or milage.

I could go on and describe the internal parts and how cheap they became but this would require books.

I never said Japan did not make gas hogs but it began here not Japan and they had to compeat, just as we now have to compete to get fuel efficient cars which by now we should have and could have been the leader.

You really have no clue to what you are talking about unless you saw the changes and knew the reason they did , I was in all their meetings when they brough in a new product and the sales pitch and i also saw the guts of the product . I was not some hack mechanic.

Frankly , I don't get your point at all or why you defend american products so much unless it has something to do with the Union emblem you have in your sig.

[DainBramaged]

57. I apprenticed at Malcom Konner Chevrolet in Paramus NJ from 1966-1971

I have nearly 28 years (on and off) in the industry from assembly line to racing crew chief and engine builder to shop steward. I have MORE than a clue. But yourself, like so many who have NO modern experience with today's autos, go back to the Pinto-Vega era just to prove to all the people on DU how fucked up American cars are. And the gas hogs were gas hogs in the Fifties, not in the Eighties.

I have more than a clue, and I am involved TODAY, not 25 years ago and pulling old horror stories out of my ass. Ask Toyota about the hidden recall of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of 4 cylinder engines at the beginning f the decade that they tried to blame the sludge problem on the owners.

Corporate responsibility, Japanese bred and born.

[blues90]

58. I stopped working for ford in 2006

So don't tell me about modern crap .

All they have done is take an internal combustion engine and control it with computers and inputs and out puts to relay info and send signals to controls ,most which are motor driven . I have a masters degree in auto repair from ford which is required.

I know all about the high tech applications and the ABS and air bags and the electronic shift transmissions. I am talking production cars not race cars here.

All the car manufactures are producing junk that does not last long , why do you think they offer 7 year warrenty?

I spent more time talking to ford engineers over the phone while on their website to find out what they had to offer as a repair when we had nothing and they told me they were working on a fix which came some 6 months down the road . I can't count how may cars and trucks I had to ask ford to buy back or how many lemon law papers where piled on my desk .

I knew people like you who are car buffs who are on high defense.

I personally saw the decline in quality to keep the cost down. Take a good look at a ford focus suspension and tell me this is reliable . one tap to a crub and the entire thing is out of wack , front wheel drive = high repair costs , electronic 4x4 is a joke.

I was the the shop foreman at a large ford dealer as well as the assistant service manager and tech trainer after years of hands on experience. When you deal with the customer to the service advisor to the tech and ford itself you learn a hell of a lot real fast and you can have an open mind to it all. I was in the middle or it all with 48 techs and 8 service advisors and 100 plus units a day average.

I have to look at it from the customers point of view as well as the techs so they make money and the service advisors who wrote down wrong info , the bottom line is almost all this head trouble would not exist if the cars were built better not just more fuel efficient this is only part of it all .

[DainBramaged]

59. Fords have ALWAYS sucked, Chevy rules, always will

end of discussion.

[JuniperLea]

11. Yep

I'm seeing far too much trust in a wolf in grandma's nightcap here... too many are too gullible.

I'm fine with research money... going to a University or a research firm... NOT the freaking wolf, FCOL!

[Oregone]

7. If we socialize research, SOCIALIZE the ownership of the developements...

Let We the People own the latest generation batteries the auto makers create, so we don't have to privately pay a profit margin on them when buying a car. We already fucking paid for them to be developed!

[depakid]

9. Gotta shore up the vote in Michigan

Passing the loot is the typical way to do that. Tried and true.

[JuniperLea]

13. Yep...

You nailed it. This isn't about technology or cars... it's about votes... and selling out.

[DainBramaged]

15. There is always a cadre of (DU) American auto industry haters who come out

to bash the industry whenever anything good is in the press or posted on DU. Are you deadbeats on the payrolls of the Japanese auto makers?

[uponit7771]

22. That's not fair, people can see the leaders of the big 3 sat & watched high gas prices punch them in

...the face while stopping research since the 70s.

Before I was born gas prices were high and it seems kinda crazy to say that before I was born a man was placed on the moon but in 30 years we can't develop an SUV that gets 30 city and 40 highway.

[DainBramaged]

30. (sigh) you and so many others just don't get it

ALL of the manufacturers, included the beloved Japanese, make gas guzzlers BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE FUCKING PUBLIC WANTED UNTIL GAS HIT $3.00 A GALLON. Now all of you expect them to turn on a dime and make cars that get 50MPG and fit 25 people in them. I have a clue for you, and you don't have to take out a loan for it. only TWO PERCENT of the cars sold this year are hybrids, NOT because there aren't enough around, but because there are too many people who are trapped in a vehicle they purchased when gas was less than $2.00 a gallon and they can't afford a monthly car pament.

And PS, you have probably NEVER even owned an American car.

Get real.

[Radical Activist]

38. Bullshit

People can't get hybrids. There are 3-6 month waiting lists in my state. That isn't a new thing. It has been like that for a long time, and the American companies dumped a lot of money to drive up demand for gas guzzlers over fuel efficient cars.

This is the short sighted failure of American car companies and their allegiance to the oil industry.

And before you pull that line with me too, every car I've purchased has been union made in America. Its a damn shame I can't get a decent union made American hybrid. There's no good excuse for that.

[DainBramaged]

41. Bullshit my wrinkled old ass

They may have waiting lists in YOUR state but around here they have to lease them to move them off the lots. Read this, and become enlightened. And there IS two decent American made hybrids, it's called the Ford Escape HYBRID, and the Saturn Green Line Vue HYBRID.

[Radical Activist]

45. There's a good reason you can get hybrids in your state. Don't thank the auto manufacturers.

New Jersey signed onto the California/Pavley car emissions standards that REQUIRE companies to offer more hybrids to lower their fleet emission levels. The states that signed onto the better emissions standards are being sent the hybrids first and other states are left with long waiting lists.
Its a law that the UAW lobbies AGAINST. That's right, the reason you don't have waiting lists for hybrids in your state is that your state had the good sense to pass a law that the UAW and auto industry opposed. But in my state, where politicians caved under pressure from the industry and the UAW, we have long waiting lists. Why don't you educate yourself on that?

http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=15503

And no, the Escape and Vue are NOT decent hybrids. You, like the American companies, don't seem to understand that people who care about fuel economy and/or the environment don't want to spend several thousand more dollars to get a car that still gets under 35mpg. Conventional cars get better mileage than that! That's a fucking joke. And even Saturn's other hybrid makes very limited use of hybrid technology so that mileage gains are meager, nowhere near the Prius. The fact that when they finally came out with hybrids they were still clunky, low mileage SUV's is a complete idiotic joke and it shows that they're completely clueless about what the market wants.

All the charts you posted prove is that American companies are getting their asses kicked in the hybrid market, which is obvious because they aren't offering a decent product.

[DainBramaged]

50. The fucking Japanese make as may gas guzzlers as the Domestics

who the fuck are you kidding? And the Germans are worse. Bathe in their technological brilliance. Please note, when GM announced the Volt, the Japanese FOLLOWED with all electric announcements.


Hybrids were less than TWO FUCKING PERCENT of ALL cars sold. And EVERYONE would produce more if enough people wanted them, but, as is the case with you short-sighted chumps, you think everyone can afford a new $25000 car that meets YOU definition of correctness.

Bullshit once again.

Buy your Japanese car, because you like most of the DU members are anti-Union and do nothing to support domestic industry. And when you realize the payoff on a hybrid is years longer than a similar car with SIMILAR millage, you'll still be congratulating yourself for your environmental correctness.

I'd say something else but you aren't worth another letter typed.

[Radical Activist]

52. You're drinking Detroit kool-aid.

Sure, there are foreign SUV's. But they didn't put all their eggs on one basket. They can't keep a Prius on the lot in most states. The demand far exceeds the supply.

Its possible to make an affordable, American made hybrid that gets over 40mpg. There's no one to blame for the fact there isn't one on the road except the American car companies.

[blues90]

54. How do you think the public wanted this ?

This was marketing strategy done by the american auto designers to convince people what they need and then make it popular. The people did not come up with the idea suddenly , Oh I need an SUV.

[JuniperLea]

23. I was a Teamster in the Port of Long Beach working for Toyota for 10 years

My ex has worked there 30 years and is still there. I think we know a little bit about the auto industry, and unions.

Your precious automakers have reamed you for years. They've taken away your benefits and kept you from salary increases so they could fund the big wigs with massive bonuses... and they have laid you off instead of taking a stock price hit. They made exceedingly poor business decisions in the past 30 years, and now they stand with their corrupt hands out looking for our tax dollars and you want to blow sweet warm air up their asses.

I chose to take off the coveralls and don a suit and work in an air-conditioned office... that's where I saw first hand the real corruption in corporate America. Not from the companies and individuals I worked for personally, but in all the research I gathered in the investment arena. I've been lucky enough to be able to turn down jobs with companies whose culture or business practices I take issue with.

You know nothing... except to call people names who don't agree with your naivete.

[midnight armadillo]

19. No they don't

The automakers need nationalized single payer health care so they don't have to cover their workers, thus freeing up enough $ for research.

[redqueen]

27. Psssssssst...

http://club.ino.com/trading/
“What is good for General Motors is good for America”

[JuniperLea]

28. Good find!

That sums things up nicely.

[redqueen]

29. Isn't it? Got it from my dad.

Pass it on! :D

[DainBramaged]

31. What did your article prove, they made a mistake?

Do you honestly think we should put on tin hats because all of GM's problems are related to the EV1?

Do you even drive?

[redqueen]

32. Do I even drive?

:wtf:

Yeah... you take care now... have a good weekend.

[DainBramaged]

33. .................

I see you aren't good at answering questions, either.

[redqueen]

34. Not the crazy ones, no.

Waste of time.

[redqueen]

35. I was calling the QUESTION crazy.

Ugh.

[JuniperLea]

36. LOL...

Like being caught in a revolving door... jeez...

Someone needs a...




And it's not YOU, redqueen!

:hug:

[Radical Activist]

37. No, they need a kick in the ass.

Clinton gave them research funds but research does no good if it isn't implemented.

And on another note, we can thank the UAW leadership for siding with the companies when they lobbied against better fuel economy standards. I wonder how many more UAW members would still have jobs if GM had been forced to build more fuel efficient cars earlier instead of the gas guzzlers?

[JuniperLea]

39. Exactly

To blame the public for buying the gas guzzlers is stupid. What choice did they have? Buy a little Japanese car, or a big American gas guzzler... some of us had no choice at all.

I've driven GM cars all my life, but I traded in my Chevy Blazer in 2002 for a Mazda with great gas mileage... smartest thing I ever did. Had the American auto makers had a car that was comparable, I would have gladly bought that. They didn't. I had no choice.

[DainBramaged]

40. And how many gas guzzlers do the Japanese build?

Do you know? Probably not. Does the UAW have any say in what the Japanese build? No. Nice try.

[Radical Activist]

44. Is that suppused to be a point of some kind?

It doesn't matter how many because the Japanese also offer fuel efficient cars and hybrids that the market has been wanting for years.

I'll tell you what say the UAW has. They have a say when the CAFE standards come before Congress, or when states adopt the Pavley/California car emissions standards that require lower emissions, better mileage and more alternative fuel cars. They have a say in how many gas guzzlers v. cleaner cars ALL companies make. But what does the UAW do? They stand right beside, hand in hand, with the company lobbyists and the oil industry to oppose any and all government standards. Well, their short sighted alliance with the industry CEO's only hurt their own members in the long run.

[DainBramaged]

48. Yup, you must be one of dem Unions members uh huh

Keep buying those Japanese cars, you deserve them

[Name removed]

51. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[motorcity]

47. This is a bit OT

You seem to know a lot about cars. What do you think are the most reliable, fuel efficient American automobiles available now or in the near future? I looking for one that has some cargo space (like a Jeep Cherokee) and one that is just for driving me and the wife around.

[DainBramaged]

55. www.cars.com

there ya go!

[motorcity]

60. I was looking for your opinion

but thanks anyway.

[dkf]

43. America needs automakers to get up to speed with the new realities

Automakers will find out the hard way that unless they can make fuel efficient vehicles and fast, they will be obsolete.

Buying a gas guzzler has become RISKY, because the costs are now unknown. Who wants to take that into their lives now?

[alarimer]

46. They can take it out of the CEO's salaries then.

The fact is that automakers have been pushing gas guzzlers for years with no thought for the future. All of a sudden they need to research alternatives? Like they didn't see the writing on the wall years ago.

[moondust]

61. I, too, think the problem is management.

Despite the OPEC embargo of 1973 with all its implications for the future, they devolved into the large-scale development of SUVs and a return to big engines from the 1980s on. Japanese competition forced them to adopt safety standards that otherwise they probably wouldn't have. I'm inclined to think the fundamental problem is American style capitalism's short-term profit thinking/behavior.

American autoworkers, on the other hand, don't seem to have any problem making fine Japanese cars in Ohio and Kentucky and elsewhere.