"RANT!" Obama could be Clinton II if we don't hold his "feet to the NetRoot's Fire!"

[KoKo]

He's already caving, we need STRONG CANDIDATES who are PROUD of FDR VALUES...we are now going into a horrible economic decline...and if Obama's "HANDLERS" don't see this then they are no better than the DLC that drove Clinton into power with many hoping for "CHANGE" like all of us who *coughed down* Clinton and look how that turned out?

At every attack by the RISING RIGHT WING...in MEDIA or CORPORATISTS...Clinton's CAVED IN on DEMOCRATIC PARTY! Always throwing the DEM BASE..UNDER THE BUS!

Do we have a new CLINTON...with a great "poverty background" who just managed instead of being a Georgetown, Yale Law and Rhodes Scholar Graduate...to have an "Occidental College transfer to Columbia and then onto Harvard?

No Wonder Bill Clinton is kind of pissed about Obama. He see's himself as Obama.....in the younger version.

But...will the DLC RUN our Party for MORE YEARS and FAIL like they have before? :shrug:

Why can't voices like Kucinich and Feingold EVER get heard? It's the MAINSTREAM MEDIA! And, NO DEM seems to want to EXPOSE THEM! What does that say? Huh? :shrug:

[hedgehog]

1. I think William Jefferson Clinton is a special politician and that

we will not see his like again in our life time.
























Thank heavens!

[KoKo]

3. My "Rant" is that Clinton came on Dem Scene after a terrible time of Reagan and

that the "DLC" came into being as a FORCE was to counteract the Reagan "Boom/Bust and Supply side Economics."

Clinton promised us "HOPE"...the Democratic Convention was all orchestrated around the "MAN FROM HOPE,ARKASAS!" That's what had us Dems turn out to make him President! He promised "HOPE!" But so did Jimmy Carter before him!

Now we have the "Man from HOPE/CHICAGO" who is the answer to all the hopes from the '60's that "Red and Yellow, Black and White, we are People in his Sight" (Religious remember loving that song and passing it along to our kids) ...but somehow the MESSAGE IS FAILING...when it moves ever Rightward.

That's what I'm trying to get to.......

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hedgehog]

23. Nope, special as in almost unique.

[PBS Poll-435]

25. That's Mature

:eyes:

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blogslut]

4. You blew it up!

:hi:

[KoKo]

5. The "Possum's" thingy was one of Obama's overzealous creatives creation.......

and I was glad to see he "stuffed that one" because it was so laughable ...right out of the box.

I think Obama is a very "good at heart person"...but we Dems always put these people out there and then they take further to the Right. By the time they are PRESIDENT ...they are so CORRUPTED they don't even know who they are.

That was my point. That no matter how far we think we've come...the "Shadow Government who rules the MEDIA COVERAGE always extracts it's Pound of Flesh from every DEMOCRATIC CANDIATE...but NOT from REPUGS who give them EVERYTHING!

Until we "TAKE BACK OUR CABLE MEDIA" ...we NetRoots are always "lower case." :-(

[KoKo]

7. I truly believe Obama is a good person wanting to make Change ...but..

see post above this....because he walks in footsteps of Dems who've failed with the American People..through ethics but mostly by the "Mainstream Meda" ...particularly "Talk Radio with Rush and the Religious Right" who dominate it.

Yet...our Democrats won't attack the media or make changes. WHY? :shrug: It always comes down to how a Presidential Candidate is "covered" ...yet when folks who OPPOSE YOU have ALL THE AIRWAVES..RADIO/TEEVEE...what chance does one really have? :shrug:

[Name removed]

10. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MoonRiver]

6. It is a depressing state of affairs.

However, it's always good to take reality checks. It lessens one's inevitable disillusionment. Best wishes in this regard.

[KoKo]

8. One must always "Try." If that's how one keeps themselves off Meds...

just saying.......

[MoonRiver]

9. OK.

[KoKo]

15. It ain't easy...for sure......sleepless nights..angst..railing...all that. n/t

[MoonRiver]

32. Well, take comfort in the fact that you have done all that you can do.

After that point,it's really out of your hands. :hug:

[GoldieAZ49]

11. the "NetRoots" will not decide the election

the posts online will neither make or break any candidate.

[jgraz]

13. Wrong... the "netroots" have already decided an election this year.

Without the online blogs, forums and donations we'd have Hillary Clinton as our nominee right now.

[KoKo]

18. We aren't a power....yet. Dean in '04 and Dems in '06 gave us Pelosi/Reid Empowerment..

..and that went down...so we work and work and OBAMA was our next great hope...but he doesn't listen to us when he caves into the Repugs who have 23% ratings. THEY are still the ones our Dems LISTEN TO...and are so very..afraid of. WHY ...I ask after the RW has IMPLODED on their OWN POLICIES...would Democratic Candidates and those in Congress still "cower under the RW's Boots?"

I don't have an answer that isn't "conspiratorial sounding." :-(

[mtnsnake]

14. God forbid we pay off our national debt, protect the environment & have a strong economy again

like what happened during those dreadful Clinton years :eyes:

[jgraz]

20. While losing our manufacturing base and kicking welfare mothers out onto the street?

Personally, I don't give a fuck about the national debt if I don't have a job. And the environment? Puh-leaze. How many environmental laws were gutted in Clinton's rush toward globalization?

[mtnsnake]

33. Whoa. Clinton had an outstanding environmental record as President

No amount of crockery can change that fact.

Personally, I don't give a fuck about the national debt if I don't have a job

Hey, I sincerely feel for you about not having a job. That is not a fun thing to experience, but not giving a fuck about the national debt is not conducive to striving for a good future for the next generation or two either. Anyway, I hope the job situation gets better for you sooner than later.

[jgraz]

52. For the environment, I'm talking about the 3rd-world impact of globalization

How many companies moved off-shore for cheap labor and no environmental restrictions?

As far as the job goes, I was speaking hypothetically. My job situation is pretty good, but I have friends who are unemployed and I feel for them. I also have neighbors who have been foreclosed on (in one of the nicest neighborhoods in Berkeley).

But for what it's worth, I appreciate the sympathy. I hope I don't find myself in need of it anytime soon. ;)

[mod mom]

62. League of Conservation Voters gave Clinton a C- his first year:

Washington, D.C. - The League of Conservation Voters (LCV), the self-described political arm of the environmental movement, has given President Clinton a middling grade of "C-plus" overall for "not working up to potential" during his first year in office.

In particular, the League criticized the Clinton Administration for failing to halt Waste Technologies Industries' controversial hazardous waste incinerator in East Liverpool, Ohio.

While LCV noted that Clinton had indicated support for a moratorium on the construction of new solid and hazardous waste incinerators during his election campaign - a legislative goal of several environmental groups - the report itself remains silent on the issue.

-snip
http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_fewer_onsite_hazwaste/

HERE IS WHY-:

Ask Hillary About This Tonight. I Dare You.
by Zwoof

Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 03:40:46 AM PDT

Several days ago I posted a diary about the WTI and Von Roll Toxic Waste Incinerator. Because I posted it the same day as the South Carolina Primary, several Kossacks have asked me to repost.

THE PLAYERS

Background on Jackson Stephans and Von Roll America:

By the most conservative estimates, the four partner companies that signed the incinerator's original permit application changed their names some nine times between 1981 and 1990. According to other estimates, the changes number more than forty... Mother Jones

Stephens Inc. and WTI

According to the Ohio Attorney General's report on WTI in 1993: "It was 'Waste Technologies, Incorporated' in the late seventies, a group of companies owned by Jackson Stephens of Little Rock, Arkansas that became interested in the possibility of developing industrial waste incinerators which could be used to generate power.

Note: No power has been generated from this facility to date.

Von Roll America

There have been criminal investigations of Von Roll management, including the conviction of three company executives in Switzerland related to the company’s 1991 sales of weapons parts to Iraq.

The Politicians,Contributers and Conflicts

Jackson Stephans seems to have had a knack for picking winners.

Stephens staked Sam Walton when he started Wal-Mart in 1970, financed Tyson Food's takeover of Holly Farms in 1988 and bankrolled Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, the television producer and Former First Friend.



Jackson Stephens hired the Rose Law Firm where Hillary Rodham Clinton was a partner.


In 1979, she became the first woman to be made a full partner of Rose Law Firm, hired by managing partner C. Joseph Goroir, Jr,.

Stephens later hired Goroir as director of his Worthen Bank in Little Rock.

In 1991, Jackson Stephens contributed $100,000 to the Republican Party for George Herbert Walker Bush's presidential campaign, and Stephens Inc. "kicked in another $100,000." Stephen’s wife was the Arkansas co-chairman of the Bush for President campaign. (Wall Street Journal, December 6, 1991.)

Not big news, just another Billionaire for The Bush Family.


But when it appeared that George Bush's presidency was doomed Stephens changed horses..

Jackson Stephens raised at least $100,000 for Bill Clinton's first Presidential campaign (Source: Seattle Times, November 6, 1993)

Stephens "extended a $3.5 million line of credit to campaign through the Worthen Bank, which is partly owned by the Stephens family. The Clinton campaign deposited up to $55 million in federal election funds in this bank." (Source: The Nation)

-SNIP

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/31/21045/9822/688/446786

WORTH A FULL READ IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH!

[mtnsnake]

70. Oh for fucks sake, he had 8 yrs, not just 1. His record was great. This is fucking sickening

listening to the likes of you try to destroy the legacy of Bill Clinton, doing your utmost best to find any way possible to soil his fine record...even if it means you'd highlight his entire 8 years by picking out the first year of his administration to do it. Fucking pathetic. This is pathetic, you are pathetic. This fucking cesspool is pathetic.

[mod mom]

72. Tell that to the residents of East Liverpool OH and all those who are down the Ohio River from it.

:eyes:

Not to mention...Shifting jobs (NAFTA & MF Trade Status w China)outside of this country took away jobs from the US where there are environmental regulations and sent them overseas where there are not.

[KoKo]

27. Clinton promised that.....how far did he get when "reality" set in? n/t

[mod mom]

61. there you go Reaganizing Clinton, again. Sometimes it takes years to feel the effects

of policies. Clinton gave us NAFTA & MF Trade Status to China (thus eradicating many middle class jobs), banking mergers (which helped lead to current mortgage crisis, and Telecom Acto of '96 (media consolidation which allowed *'s coup in 2000) as well as backing other damaging policies to this nation.

You might be served by reading this letter from a Wellesley College Alumna :



RE: Open Letter to Hillary Clinton From a Wellesley College Alumna, by Linn Cohen-Cole. Thought you all might be interested in reading this open letter to Hillary Clinton, by Linn Cohen-Cole, on the Clinton's ties to Monsanto, promotion of genetically engineered crops and rBGH, recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone.
Open Letter to Hillary Clinton From a Wellesley College Alumna
February 19, 2008

-snip

You have connections to Monsanto through the Rose Law Firm where you worked and through Bill who hired Monsanto people for central food-related roles. Your Orwellian-named “Rural Americans for Hillary” was planned withTroutman Sanders, Monsanto’s lobbyists.

Genetic engineering and industrialized food and animal production all come together at the Rose Law Firm, which represents the world’s largest GE corporation (Monsanto), GE’s most controversial project (DP&L’s - now Monsanto’s - terminator genes) , the world’s largest meat producer (Tyson), the world’s largest retailer and a dominant food retailer (Wal-Mart) .

The inbred-ness of Rose’s legal representation of corporations which own controlling interests in other corporations there and of corporate boards sharing members who are also shareholders of each other’s corporations there, is so thorough that it is hard to capture. Jon Jacoby, senior executive of the Stephens Group - one of the largest institutional shareholders of Tyson Foods, Walmart, DP&L - is also Chairman of the Board of DP&L and arranged the Wal-Mart deal. Jackson Stephens’ Stephens Group staked Sam Walton and financed Tyson Foods. Monsanto bought DP&L. All represented at Rose.

You didn’t just work there, you made friends. That shows in the flow of favors then and since. You were invited onto Walmart’s board, you were helped by a Tyson executive to make commodity trades (3 days before Bill became governor), netting you $100,000, Jackson Stephens strongly backed Bill for Governor, and then for President (donating $100,000).

Food and friends, in Clinton terms: Bill’s appointed friend Mike Espy, Secretary of Agriculture, who immediately significantly weakened federal chicken waste and contamination standards, opening the door to major expansion of Tyson’s chicken factory farms. Espy resigned, indicted for accepting bribes, illegal contributions, money laundering, illegal dispersal of USDA subsidies, …. Tyson Foods was the largest corporate offender.

-snip

http://pittsburgh.indymedia.org/news/2008/03/29083.php

[mtnsnake]

71. See post 70. You and half this place are truly sickening. n/t

[mod mom]

73. coming from you, who remain blind to Clinton policies, I will take that as a compliment!

How you can remain unmoved despite the evidence of his record (monsanto, WTI, NAFTA, MF trade w China, telecom Act of '96, extraordinary renditions,) is beyond me. Just don't bother criticizing the GOP for glorifying Reagan, because you do the same with the Clintons.

Aren't you tired of whitewashing over failed policies. we need change from the corporate agenda that some within our party hold.

[mtnsnake]

74. With people like you, the Democratic Party needs no enemies

Maybe you can erect a billboard on some major highway that says "Bill Clinton Sucks" if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.

[mod mom]

75. I happen to be a very active member of the Democratic Party. I organized a 300+

Kerry/Edwards volunteer group that worked at GOTV, I organized many visibility events for the Dems, held fundraisers for both candidates and lean leaning organizations such as Move-on and True Majority, I worked with ACT to register dozens of new voters in '04 and travelled around the state of Ohio volunteering at rallies.

Currently, I worked 4 days a week since before the primary with the Obama campaign, worked several visibility events including organizing a 3 day festival that yielded 87 new voters and 66 new Obama volunteers. I am currently working with our state party on election protection and ensuring that these new registrations have their votes counted in November. I plan on spending my Fourth of July registering new voters to strengthen the entire party ticket for this election. I believe I am an asset to the Party.

I'm tired of sweeping bad policies that only benefit the very wealthy and corporate interest under the rug. It's time to work at re-building the party to work at helping the people.

[mtnsnake]

80. That's amazing, considering how much time you spend here ruining the name of a Democratic icon

like Bill Clinton.

In all the days I've spent doing constructive things for my Party, which I won't even begin to brag about because anyone can make up anything they want to on an anonymous posting board, I have never in my life experienced any of my co-volunteers who ran down Bill Clinton (and/or Hillary) like what I've experienced from you and so many others here on DU.

Have a good day.

[mod mom]

81. lol.

I don't have to worry about the likes of your opinions. The DUers from my area know of my activism. If your so call"bragging" means more folks getting involved at growing the party with progressives like me than all the better!

[Lilith Velkor]

85. Oh snap

:applause:

[Dawgs]

16. Dumbest post I've read all day.

How bout you worry about getting him elected first. He ain't gonna get shit done at all if McCain wins.

[jgraz]

17. Have we learned NOTHING from the past 30 years?

You win American votes by acting strong and sticking to your principles. Paul Wellstone, Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold and Sherrod Brown have all won statewide elections despite being far to the left of their states' general populations.

People respect principled leadership. They respect it so much they almost don't care what the principles are.

[WeDidIt]

19. NOT NOW!

Only after the election will it be effective.

We have ONE SHOT at winning this thing. You want to sew seeds of discord, then say hello to President McCain.

[jgraz]

21. Yes, democracy has been suspended until after the election.

:eyes:

[WeDidIt]

36. Stand for left leaning principles, or win.

Those are your choices.

[jgraz]

53. Your "choice" is bullshit, anti-democratic un-American fear mongering.

The idea that we can't have a voice in our party without losing elections is ludicrous.

Look at the GOP: Every time the Repugs even *fake* toward the center, their base squeals like stuck pigs. They are constantly being hammered from the right and their politicians end up benefitting from it. No one wants to vote for some wimp-ass weakling, no matter what their principles are. The fact that the Repugs are held to their (fucked up) core beliefs is what has helped them win so many elections.

The American people have nothing against left-leaning principles. In fact, most of them agree with my so-called "left-leaning" principles. What American people hate is weakness. What they hate is dishonest. mamby-pamby wussbags who won't stand up for what they believe and will say anything to avoid a fight. Just ask John Kerry. Or Al Gore. Or Michael Dukakis. Or the 1994 Congress.

It's sad that you've learned EXACTLY the wrong lesson from these defeats. You think the Democrats aren't weak enough. That they need to cave in more and hide under their desks whenever controversy arises. Well, that's not who I voted for in the primaries, and I damn well won't sit quietly by while Obama turns into another one of these wet kleenex Dems.

[ClassWarrior]

26. Bullshit. We're not called the DEMOCRATIC Party cuz it rolls off the tongue.

NGU.

[WeDidIt]

37. Do you want principles, or do you want to win.

Principles don;t mean a GOD DAMNED THING if you don't win.

Win at all costs is the mantra now. Anything less than that is a loss.

[noiretextatique]

39. i want principled leadership

bush, inc and the GOP is a perfect example of the "win at any cost" mentality. is that what you want?

[KoKo]

42. That's what I'm worried about...if you give away your principles, step by step, though...what ARE

YOU when you win....:-(

[noiretextatique]

45. nothing

obama should ask bill clinton about that.

[The Doctor.]

49. Uhhh... notsomuch. Bush and Co had no principles to begin with.

If you want to get into office where you can assert your principles, then you may have to make compromises to get there, but it doesn't mean you have 'abandonned' or 'given away' your principles.

Here;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6414174

[ClassWarrior]

51. I want both. And we can have both. Link...

The losing strategy is to move to the right, to assume with Republicans that American values are mainly conservative and that the Democratic party has to move away from its base and adopt conservative values. When you do that, you help activate conservative values in people’s brains (thus helping the other side), you offend your base (thus hurting yourself), and you give the impression that you are expressing no consistent set of values, which is true! Why should the American people trust somebody who does not have clear values, and who may be trying to deceive them about the values he and his party’s base hold?

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/15/3174

NGU.

[WeDidIt]

58. Politics is the art of compromise

IF you refuse to compromise on your prinsiples, you lose.

Period.

All the principles in the world and two bucks can get you a cup of coffe in some, but not all, US cities.

[ClassWarrior]

63. You didn't even bother to read the link, did you?

And what are "prinsiples?"

NGU.

[emilyg]

84. "prinsiples" are tiny principels.

Very tiny.

[dflprincess]

83. Compromise does not mean giving in to the right wing on everytime they make noise

If you don't stand for something, you stand for nothing.

[ClassWarrior]

87. Exactly. I'll compromise on issues to defend my values...

...but it's ludicrous to compromise one's values to win on issues.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

22. That's the historic OPPORTUNITY inherent in an Obama Presidency...

CUNY Professor Frances Fox Piven on a recent Democracy Now!:

You know, in 1932, FDR didn’t run with a good program; he ran with the same program the Democrats had run with in 1924 and 1928, and that wasn’t a good program. But nevertheless, his rhetoric encouraged people who were suffering as a result of the Depression—working people, the unemployed—and helped to fuel the movements, which then forced FDR to support initiatives which he otherwise would not have supported, including the right to organize...

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/6/super_tuesday_roundtable_with_bill_fletcher

NGU.

[KoKo]

28. We are all hoping and praying (except for DU non-relig) for Obama to be "THE ONE."

But, some of us older Dems have heard it all before and seen the "caving in" all before. We are very wary...seeing the latest of Obama's caving in.

just saying.....

[ClassWarrior]

30. I agree. And I especially agree about the holding of feet to the fire. There's sure no...

...guarantee that this individual will take Progressive positions. It's up to us to make sure that he does.

NGU.

[dflprincess]

46. Obama is a DINO

and just another politician who will sell his soul (and our rights) for his own ambition. This does not come as a surprise to any of us who have been around a while and it's the reason many of us couldn't make a choice between him and Clinton - they aren't really very different from each other.

I truly hoped that it would turn out that I was wrong about Obama - I would have enjoyed being wrong about him. I did not expect him to show his true colors so early in the game. - He isn't even officially the nominee yet and he has turned on the base...that has got to be a record.

I feel bad for the idealists who got involved in the process for the first time because of him and are learning a hard lesson. I hope they stay with us - we can make things better if we keep trying. We can get more people like Wellstone and Bernie Sanders elected if we stay involved. And we need to let them know that someone is actually paying attention.

But, damn, I had so hoped we'd have an actual Democrat running this year.

[jgraz]

54. At this point, I think you have to say Wellstone and Feingold are the DINOs

The Democrats have been too weak for too long for us to pretend that this isn't a fundamental part of their nature.

[dflprincess]

82. I always thought of Wellstone as being more of a member of the Farmer-Labor wing of the DFL

Even though he did refer to himself as being a member of the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.

[wyldwolf]

57. No he's not

:shrug:

[4themind]

64. Well I think

your definition of what a democrat is, is just that, your own, and every individual person (myself included) make their own definitions and they will align up with each other, to varying degress, and when they align up enough that people want to group together and push for candidates to represent these goals, you have formation of parties, candidates and primaries. Everyone has the line that they think cannot be crossed, and you make your own sufficient conditions, again they are your own, and other people may or may not agree with it. But for me if he's offering me THIS http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/26/141649/021/671/542425 he's offering enough of democratic principles for me to consider voting for him, regardless of what the hell people call him.

Simply because he went back on some things, doesn't in and of itself mean that he will cave in on another issue (appeal to tradition) same thing for a person who's given you everything you've wanted up to this point. You can use these for evaluating relative preferences between candidates based upon what you're willing to risk, but when you get right down to it in my mind, there are TWO that in my opinion have the relative best chances of carrying out their agenda (based upon their affiliation with parties that have dominance of the house and senate chambers as well) McCain and Obama. So in conclusion, obama might be a democrat, a republican, or king-kong but what he DOES represent to me at least is the promise(which is really what every candidate does) of getting SOME THINGs accomplished (somethings that I happen to care a hell of a lot about ). Whether he DOES get these goals I linked accomplished can ONLY be judged after he's elected (even kucinich would be judged in the same way, regardless of his previous positions) now if you DON'T want to give him the chance then fine(and I'm not implying that you don't), but for me I'm willing to risk it.

P.S. please don't take this as calling you out specifically, it's just a rant based on somethings that came to mind after I read your post, which may or may not fit the thoughts of multiple people on here. I don't expect politicians to be be perfect, and even if they fall behind my measure of "adequate" what's most important for me (and sufficient) is for them to realize and pluck them selves out of it. The question is how do they "realize" this, well here is where I think Obama's candidacy has a relatively unique possibility for accountability. Because of the numbers (like never before) of small donors, if enough of them don't like his policies they can ..(well I won't say the rest for fear of being banned). Combine that with the fact that NEEDS donations like never before because he's opting out of the G.E. fund (and combine that with a less than enthusiastic clinton donor base) and he'll have monetary pressure like never before. That's why I think that the people who HAVE invested in his candidacy still have a voice to play, and economic pressure based on my experience, often speaks loudest, but I'll continue to keep and open mind and judge as we find out more.

[Marrah_G]

24. Yes- we get that you hate Clinton

:eyes:

[niceypoo]

29. Obama might reverse 12 years of deficits...

...and foster peace and prosperity? OMG, that is just AWEFUL!!!

Get over your Clinton obsession plz, the primaries are over.

[noiretextatique]

40. might, is the operative word

if elected, i am sure he will be as competent as bill clinton.

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. So true.

Life is different once you get access at your fingertips.

[depakid]

34. I suspect from what I've seen of the record so far, he may out do Clinton

We shall see.

[populistdriven]

35. At this point I wouldn't care if Obama showed up in a dress and ate a baby on live TV

He has my vote, my financial support and my time unequivocally until the election.

If you want to carp about him doing whatever the hell he thinks he needs to do to get elected go call Hannity.

[KoKo]

38. Obama has ALL OUR SUPPORT...but when is he accountable to them that brought him to the Election?

That's what I'm asking.

[populistdriven]

47. The day he is sworn in as President nt.

[4themind]

68. It's a fair question and I think

there are at least two opportunities, the first is whether you trust him enough to do enough of the things that you happen to value, to decide to vote for him (that's going on now). Then you have to decide if he actually carried out enough of what you wanted (or made a good enough attempt to do so) that can't be judged untill after his first term.
The second opportunity to hold him accountable is during the primary after his first term. This is where I think our current system can fail us in terms of pushing for higher standards. Because of the way our two party system is structured, any party intra challenges itself may help to push the the OPPOSING party narrative that the president in power (and grouping the party along with it) have been a failure that needs a complete change. Really it comes down to people's fear of losing even the little that they have rather than striving for more but perhaps risking having (in their minds) virtually noting (if a repub get in)


But consider this scenario for accontability, that I think is relatively unique for obama's candidacy: Because of the numbers (like never before) of small donors, if enough of them don't like his policies they can ..(well I won't say the rest for fear of being banned). Combine that with the fact that NEEDS donations like never before because he's opting out of the G.E. fund (and combine that with a less than enthusiastic clinton donor base) and he'll have monetary pressure like never before. If funding numbers go down during a particular month, combined with phone calls and vocal expressions of outrage, change may be brought about relatively quickly Ideological purity is nice, but economic pressure I'd bet on more in shaping human behavior. (again I'm not saying that this is hypothetically speaking I'm not particularly endorsing or un-endorsing the idea at this present time.

[greguganus]

67. What if he was eating your baby?

If FISA was your "baby" I bet you would feel differently, but as long as your baby's not being eaten who gives a damn, right?

[wyldwolf]

41. The "netoot's fire" has been so effective in the past...

...not.

[KoKo]

44. It will take YEARS for us to get to the Power of the RW at Backs of MSM....but it's gotta start now

with the best candidate we've had for Charisma since Clinton. We can't let Obama get away with what we now know Clinton did with "policy" because Obama got the "small donors" and the NetRoots" to support him.

This is our chance for REAL CHANGE which is what Obama is running on. "Real" Change "you can believe in." That's his message...that's why he is where he is today.

[wyldwolf]

56. then you don't actually have a "fire"

with the best candidate we've had for Charisma since Clinton.

We've only had two since Clinton. Gore and Kerry ain't that hard to beat in charisma department.

We can't let Obama get away with what we now know Clinton did with "policy" because Obama got the "small donors" and the NetRoots" to support him.

What we KNOW Clinton did with policy? Close to a balanced budget, the healthiest economy in a generation, etc.

Say, did it ever occur to you some people (well, MANY people) LIKE what he did with policy? He did have and job approval ratings in the high 60s when he left office.

[crankychatter]

43. don't you ever get bored inventing horse shit like this?

[JoFerret]

48. Memo to OP: Obama could be president

if we don't burn him at the stake.


And Clinton's ACTIVE endorsement will be key so stop with your divisive nonsense.

[NYC_SKP]

50. i found a bunnie today.

i thought it was funnie because "bunnies" had replied to one of my comments just before i found it.

isn't that weird?

[dailykoff]

55. Good rant. I've been wondering the same thing.

What the hell happened? After being called everything but the 9/11 mastermind by the Clintons Obama is now spending 24/7 kissing their rears? And starting to sound like them? Is this Stockholm syndrome or what? :shrug:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

59. Is this post a parody?

I can't decide if this is a very subtle parody or a very silly serious post. The capital letters suggest the former, but the absense of humour suggests the latter.

What do other people think?

[wyldwolf]

60. It's very serious, but reads like a parody

Some of the more passionate netrooters have a deficit of historical knowledge in Democratic electoral politics, making their rants appear comedic.

[NorthCarolina]

65. Nothing of significance will change until Americans can come around to the idea that

someone the likes of a Kucinich IS electable, and then proceed to make that idea fact. In order to achieve change you have to vote for it. The mindset that the "middle" is safe ground, and the left is "looney" is exactly where the corporate interests in this country want you to be. It's apparent to me that their efforts to paint the real protectors of our Constitution as "looney" have been extremely successful. Status Quo is the name of the game folks.

[GalleryGod]

66. GFY

eom

[Tommy_Carcetti]

69. Lots of capital letters, but not a whole lot else to say.

I'm going to have to dust off an old Squirrel Award for you:

[barack the house]

76. There is a difference to the Clinton years we have move on we must utilize them.

[SeaLyons]

77. Clinton hate....

what a waste.

[Occam Bandage]

78. Yeah, we might have eight years of peace, prosperity, a balanced budget, and environmental progress.

But why would we want that, when we could totally have a Ministry of Peace?

[scheming daemons]

79. Barack Obama IS Bill Clinton.... without the sex addiction and subsequent bimbo eruptions....

That's why I like him.


He's Bill Clinton 2.0.

[mod mom]

86. Has Sen Obama ever lied under oath? Has Sen Obama ever recommended a noted

oppressive tyrant to run an international elections organization:

After Mining Deal, Financier Donated to Clinton

By JO BECKER and DON VAN NATTA Jr.
Published: January 31, 2008

Late on Sept. 6, 2005, a private plane carrying the Canadian mining financier Frank Giustra touched down in Almaty, a ruggedly picturesque city in southeast Kazakhstan. Several hundred miles to the west a fortune awaited: highly coveted deposits of uranium that could fuel nuclear reactors around the world. And Mr. Giustra was in hot pursuit of an exclusive deal to tap them.

Unlike more established competitors, Mr. Giustra was a newcomer to uranium mining in Kazakhstan, a former Soviet republic. But what his fledgling company lacked in experience, it made up for in connections. Accompanying Mr. Giustra on his luxuriously appointed MD-87 jet that day was a former president of the United States, Bill Clinton.

-snip

"Kazakhstan’s president, Nursultan A. Nazarbayev, whose 19-year stranglehold on the country has all but quashed political dissent."

"Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy."

-snip

Just months after the Kazakh pact was finalized, Mr. Clinton’s charitable foundation received its own windfall: a $31.3 million donation from Mr. Giustra that had remained a secret until he acknowledged it last month. The gift, combined with Mr. Giustra’s more recent and public pledge to give the William J. Clinton Foundation an additional $100 million, secured Mr. Giustra a place in Mr. Clinton’s inner circle, an exclusive club of wealthy entrepreneurs in which friendship with the former president has its privileges.

LINK:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html

It's too simplistic to say because both are charismatic politicians they are similar. I find it highly insulting to Sen Obama-an honest man and loyal husband who is fighting for the people over the powerful.