Man, I didn't know that Obama was the king of the Senate.

[anonymous171]

From what I hear, his vote decides whether any bill is passed or not. Who knew the man had that much power?

[hisownpetard]

1. Huh?

[AllentownJake]

2. He is the leader of the party

and he has a great deal of influence right now. I'm not one to keep harping on FISA but if he wanted to organize a stopping of the immunity he could do it.

[MarjorieG]

5. Not without 60 votes. But again, it's the security meme. Without our own media, we lose this.

Like other issues where he is unchanged (Nafta as renegotiated, ie) but his necessary and passionate rhetoric conveys something else.

I hope we push back more on the 'just like any other politician' meme they're pushing, and that McCain is patriotic.

[chimpymustgo]

20. One need not be king to do the right thing. It's REAL simple.

[Captain Hilts]

6. He said in October he'd not only oppose it, he'd lead a fillibuster. How times change. nt

[Cha]

17. Yeah, they do change..he's our candidate

now.

[Mz Pip]

9. Isn't this a different FISA bill

than the previous one? Maybe I'm wrong but isn't the immunity in this one immunity from civil suits not immunity from criminal ones. IF there is stll the option for criminal prosecution isn't that a good thing?

[NYC_SKP]

3. I've got a feeling that this thread is liable to take a peculiar direction.

Just a guess.


:popcorn:

[John Q. Citizen]

4. What if Obama asked his supporters to call their Senators and ask them to back a

filibuster?

It would be a great test of the theory that Obama's grassroots army will help get important legislation passed when he's elected.

If he can pull it off, it would scare the crap out of Grandpa, who can't seem to get his people to line up.

[blondeatlast]

10. What if most DUers were smart enough to do that already? I did,

and my Senators are McSame and Kyl.

I give DU far more credit--Obama doesn't need to tell us what to do.

[John Q. Citizen]

15. Obama has over 1.5 million contributors. Most of them aren't members of DU.

[loyalsister]

12. Oh that's nice

Sorry, but I am not a soldier. I do not want a president who orders me around. That is the essense of the Bush presidency.
The idea behind the grassroots is that we hold him accountable after he is elected.
That is when he has the power to do what we are trying to elect him to do. At this point he is one voice one vote. The idea that he has all this power simply because he is the nominee is ludicrous.

[John Q. Citizen]

14. If you confuse asking with ordering, that's your problem I suppose.

Just out of curiosity, what are we electing him to do specifically?

Make Tom Daschle richer from his lobbying for the telecoms on immunity?

I have two Senators. One is Max Baucus, one of the most powerful people in the country due to his seniority and committee Chairmanships.

The other is Jon Tester, a freshman senator who chairs no committee. If you believe they hold equal power (one voice one vote) you don't understand politics in this country.

The nominee is the head of the party. Obama has far more power than most other Senators. If you don't understand that, well, again, that's your problem.

[loyalsister]

24. Ugh

We are electing him to represent us. That job begins once he has been elected. As a Senator, he represents the people of Illinois. I am sure many of them are legitimately upset.

Seniority is related to the structure of the Senate and as a matter of fact, there are senators with much more power than Obama.
Currently the more powerful Dems are those who have an agenda they want him to push.

If he rocks the boat they can push that agenda as Bush signs bills that are not entirely objectionable to the RW. Vets get a GI bill we invade Iran all in the same bill. Stuff like that.

They are the ones who bring the bills to floor and if you think he can simply wave his hand and make the process change and stop because he is our presidential hopeful without being called a fascist you are terribly confused about the legislative process and separation of powers. Throwing his weight around the Senate makes him no different from Bush. It oversteps the line. He should maintain his position as Jr Senator and continue to observe Senate decorum throught those proceeding and everything related. For now, he should only throw any new power he has around outside of congress.

As a candidate, he represents the Democratic party. All of the Democratic party. Even those of us who are desperately hoping that this election isn't lost or so close that the possibility of fraud muddies the waters.

[John Q. Citizen]

25. Well I hope Obama and his handlers wise up and quit supporting bad legislation. That would

help him win, after all.

[Analitico]

7. He and McCain are targetted because the are running for president

That's why their votes are scrutinized more than say, Russ Feingold.

[sufrommich]

8. Any vote by either presidential candidate for now on

will be taken as a sign of future policy direction in his administration. It's nothing new in a presidential election.

[jonnyblitz]

11. damn right!! Obama should never be held accountable for

anything!! He should only recieve our undying praise and devotion and financial contributions! YES WE CAN YES WE CAN!!1

[loyalsister]

13. The argument is

timing......

[Radical Activist]

16. That's right. No need to contact other Senators.

Asking people to contact Obama to complain that he isn't going to filibuster, even though he does support removing immunity from the bill, is the only way to change what the Senate will do. No doubt. And certainly there's no hidden agenda there.

[TheKentuckian]

19. Explain how this bill being on the floor

right now benefits Obama, even if he really wants it to pass? The reality is once the ball is tipped you have to play and nothing about playing this game helps you get elected.

Yeah, he's the nominee but some seem to think that he now holds ultimate sway over what legislation comes to the floor but he doesn't, even as President he won't. Why? It's clear that even a sitting President doesn't hold that level of influence as except with Dubbya and his ridiculous rubber stamp. Clinton saw bills he didn't want to, every President does.

It does not make political sense this bill be on the floor from Obama's viewpoint., if you can't accept leadership shoved this down his throat then you refuse to deescalate the emotion and think logically and practically.
Now he must support this to some degree or be counted with the "left wing nuts" and painted as more "liberal" than Nancy Pelosi, which seems a sure fire loser in the GE. No, most Americans are against FISA but most of them can still be lead down the primrose path of fear, at least enough of them that when combined with those who support FISA to lose the election.

Idealist need to understand that a black man, with a Muslim sounding name, with little Foreign Policy experience, no military record, and a Democrat to boot has to worry quite a bit about not getting painted any further as weak or sympathetic to terrorist. Just as they must realize that no one with Obama's political ability wants to even deal with a hot potato that puts him in position that he has to defend but gains nothing and maybe even losses support over.

I'm sure Barack is more savvy than me and I know were I he and I could just say the word then no way this comes to the floor, no way, not even if I wanted it to pass.

[blondeatlast]

18. Head, meet wall. I merely suggested a particularly obsessed "call Obama!" poster take 5 nimutes

call his own reps and da-yum; you would have thought I'd asked him to shoot his own dog.

[Peacetrain]

21. No kidding.. One senator alone can do nothing.. it is

the pressure on all the senators and reps that moves a piece of legislation along.. :)

[depakid]

22. He may be one of the most junior of senators- but he is the presumptive leader of the party

and one wouldn't think it much to ask that he finally showed a little leadership on an very important constitutional issue.

Not really his style though, his record in the senate has always been go along to get along, don't make a stir- and that's probably what we're going to keep on seeing.

[crankychatter]

23. "finally showed a little leadership?" back to the nether realm with your disruptive ass

you want to bash the candidate from the heels up... see ZERO virtue in him?

make these wild generalizations without substantiation?

all negative?

wtf are you doing here?