For those that think republican-lite is right.

[Jakes Progress]

I know Greenwald is persona non grata for many here, but see if you can refute his history and logic here:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/29/center/

So what, then, is the basis for the almost-unanimously held Beltway conventional view that Democrats generally, and Barack Obama particularly, will be politically endangered unless they adopt the Bush/Cheney approach to Terrorism and National Security, which -- for some reason -- is called "moving to the Center"? There doesn't appear to be any basis for that view. It's just an unexamined relic from past times, the immovable, uncritical assumption of Beltway strategists and pundits who can't accept that it isn't 1972 anymore -- or even 2002.

Beyond its obsolescence, this "move-to-the-center" cliché ignores the extraordinary political climate prevailing in this country, in which more than 8 out of 10 Americans believe the Government is fundamentally on the wrong track and the current President is one of the most unpopular in American history, if not the most unpopular. The very idea that Bush/Cheney policies are the "center," or that one must move towards their approach in order to succeed, ignores the extreme shifts in public opinion generally regarding how our country has been governed over the last seven years.

[Cleita]

1. I do agree with those two paragraphs you posted,

The Bush/Cheney "center" is actually fascism. It isn't conservative politics under our Constitution. It actually despises the rule of law that our country was founded on.

[Lorien]

2. He's absolutely right. A move to the "center" (extreme neo-con Right)

could destroy Obama's chances to win the White House. With Bushco as unpopular as it is, the LAST thing any thinking candidate should be doing is adopting their policies. It won't cause Dems and independents, as well as disgruntled repugs, to vote for McCain- but it may cause them to stay home. Meanwhile the rabid right will come out in force to vote against that "Muzlim" Obama, who isn't winning any of them to our side. You can't alter the views of racist authoritarians, so why embrace their policies? Beltway insiders are hopelessly, HOPELESSLY out of touch with mainstream America.

[slipslidingaway]

3. K&R also I posted this in GD, here is the link FWIW

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3538872

[TreasonousBastard]

4. That's only part of it...

while most of the country does agree that the Shrub&Co. is dreadfully inept, I'm not sure there is any agreement on just what a competant government would be, or what direction we should be heading in.

We're mired in Iraq, the economy sucks, healthcare is a mess, the environment is going downhill-- all this and many other problems agreed to.

But, what to do about it? That's where it gets tricky and anybody running has to appeal to a lot of people who don't agree with each other on just what the solutions are.

So, I don't listen much to the plans&programs bullshit on the campaign trail.

[Two Americas]

10. they are not inept

The Bush administration has been wildly successful. Not sure how people can see them as inept. They set out to hand the country over to the wealthy and powerful, to destroy the Constitution, to corrupt and cripple and demoralize any and all opposition, and to dismantle the public infrastructure and pave the way for turning all of us into peasants and setting up total rule by the wealthy and powerful few. Seems to me they have done a heckuva job, and we can say "mission accomplished" at this point.

What on earth might they have done if they were less inept? If they are in fact inept, thank God for that, because I certainly would not want to see them do a better job than they have, given their plans and goals.

I would guess they have done better than even they ever imagined they could do. They probably had no idea just how weak the opposition would be - that would be us - and didn't expect to get us to roll over so easily.

[truedelphi]

5. Exactly. The American public is MORE independent that Republican,

And this notion that a candidate should move to the right is something that may have worked for Clinton in 1992, but doesn't work now.

Obama needs to wake up, or otherwise NOBODY will win.

Every time that more people stay home than the number who go out and vote, NOBODY wins.

It's like Carlin says of our political system: "First the Republicans step forward and say: "SOmething needs to be done!" So they move forward, and take a big shit.

Then the Democrats get in control, and they say, "Gosh this looks awful" So they spend the next four to eight years moving the shit around!

[Jakes Progress]

6. I think the stay home

non-voter is the one we need to consider. Stay homers are the largest block of voters we can get. In his campaign, Obama brought out millions of previous non-voters because they perceived hid message as a change. Stay home non-voters fall into two categories.

First are those who don't believe their vote will matter. These need to be convinced they are part of a movement, a huge group that will make a difference if they become a part. They are not scared away by "terrist" talk. But they won't come out if they feel that the "magic" is gone. He needs to keep being on the edge and keep stirring people up, not trying to keep them from being upset.

The second type are those who don't bother to vote because they don't see any reason to vote for either party because they don't see any difference between them. This group will no be moved to vote when they see Obama becoming just like the republicans.

We're not going to get the republicans to vote for us. Yes, I know there are always anecdotes of this or that republican who says they will, but we need millions, not the five or six that make the news. We need all of our base and we need the huge percentage of those who don't bother to vote. Too often we write them off as not caring, but the truth is they don't think it makes any difference who wins. We can't convince them otherwise by being just like the republicans.

The pundit-fed strategy of moving to the right will cost us the election.

[BzaDem]

7. You can keep criticizing, but you don't have a choice.

Either Obama or McCain is going to get elected. Not some third candidate that will agree with you on every issue. Whatever you think is right or wrong, there is a choice between two candidates.

[Jakes Progress]

8. But I want Obama to win.

This is not how it will happen.

Did you read the Greenwald article or was yours just a knee jerk reaction to the perceived criticism of your candidate. The whole point is that we want Obama to win and he will not do so by chasing the republican vote.

Yes, one of these will win. If he keeps this up, it won't be the one we want. Read the article.

[truedelphi]

9. I don't think he is saying he wants some third candidate to come along and

Entice us to leave Obama.

Obama needs to stay the course he set during his primary campaign.

otherwise the stay at home voter will continue to stay at home.

And that will make this election a very close one, and much easier to steal.