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Youphemism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 07:20 PM
Original message
Annoyed Over FISA? Don't whine about Obama... Act.

If you're upset about FISA legislation being passed -- especially those of you who have expressed concern about Obama's FISA stance -- here's a way you can direct that anger where it belongs.

The reason FISA is an issue is not Obama -- this bill reached the Senate because over 100 Democrats in the House of Representatives voted along with Republicans.

This post provides a link to contact your representatives, and a list of how all those representatives voted. Many of these representatives campaigned on a platform that promised to fight against issues just like FISA.

If you have anger over the FISA issue, these are the folks to complain to.


* Interactive Map To Find Your Congressional Representatives:

http://www.commoncause.org/siteapps/advocacy/search.aspx?c=dkLNK1MQIwG&b=196434

* How To Lobby Your Elected Officials:

http://www.heartsandminds.org/articles/lobby.htm



FISA VOTE ROLL CALL -- Source: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2008-437

Roll Call Votes: 110th Congress: House Vote #437 (Jun 20, 2008)
H.R. 6304: FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (Vote On Passage)
House Vote #437 --- Jun 20, 2008
Result: Passed

Related Bill: H.R. 6304: FISA Amendments Act of 2008

Primary Source
This information comes from House Vote #437 on the House website .

Totals & Party Breakdown
Total Democrat Republican Independent
Ayes: 293 (67%)
105 188 0
Nays: 129 (30%) 128 1 0
No Vote: 13 (3%) 3 10 0
Required: Simple Majority of 422 votes (212)

Votes

Alabama

Aye AL-1 Bonner, Jo
Aye AL-2 Everett, Terry
Aye AL-3 Rogers, Michael
Aye AL-4 Aderholt, Robert
Aye AL-5 Cramer, Robert
Aye AL-6 Bachus, Spencer
Aye AL-7 Davis, Artur

Alaska

Aye AK-0 Young, Donald

Arizona

Aye AZ-1 Renzi, Rick
Aye AZ-2 Franks, Trent
Aye AZ-3 Shadegg, John
Nay AZ-4 Pastor, Edward
Aye AZ-5 Mitchell, Harry
Aye AZ-6 Flake, Jeff
Nay AZ-7 Grijalva, Raul
Aye AZ-8 Giffords, Gabrielle

Arkansas

Aye AR-1 Berry, Robert
Aye AR-2 Snyder, Victor
Aye AR-3 Boozman, John
Aye AR-4 Ross, Mike

California

Nay CA-1 Thompson, C.
Aye CA-2 Herger, Walter
Aye CA-3 Lungren, Daniel
Aye CA-4 Doolittle, John
Nay CA-5 Matsui, Doris
Nay CA-6 Woolsey, Lynn
Nay CA-7 Miller, George
Aye CA-8 Pelosi, Nancy
Nay CA-9 Lee, Barbara
Aye CA-10 Tauscher, Ellen
Aye CA-11 McNerney, Jerry
Nay CA-12 Speier, Jackie
No Vote CA-13 Stark, Fortney
Nay CA-14 Eshoo, Anna
Nay CA-15 Honda, Michael
Nay CA-16 Lofgren, Zoe
Nay CA-17 Farr, Sam
Aye CA-18 Cardoza, Dennis
Aye CA-19 Radanovich, George
Aye CA-20 Costa, Jim
Aye CA-21 Nunes, Devin
Aye CA-22 McCarthy, Kevin
Nay CA-23 Capps, Lois
Aye CA-24 Gallegly, Elton
Aye CA-25 McKeon, Howard
Aye CA-26 Dreier, David
Aye CA-27 Sherman, Brad
Aye CA-28 Berman, Howard
Aye CA-29 Schiff, Adam
Nay CA-30 Waxman, Henry
Nay CA-31 Becerra, Xavier
Nay CA-32 Solis, Hilda
Nay CA-33 Watson, Diane
Nay CA-34 Roybal-Allard, Lucille
Nay CA-35 Waters, Maxine
Aye CA-36 Harman, Jane
Aye CA-37 Richardson, Laura
Nay CA-38 Napolitano, Grace
Nay CA-39 Sanchez, Linda
Aye CA-40 Royce, Edward
Aye CA-41 Lewis, Jerry
Aye CA-42 Miller, Gary
Aye CA-43 Baca, Joe
Aye CA-44 Calvert, Ken
Aye CA-45 Bono Mack, Mary
Aye CA-46 Rohrabacher, Dana
Nay CA-47 Sanchez, Loretta
Aye CA-48 Campbell, John
Aye CA-49 Issa, Darrell
Aye CA-50 Bilbray, Brian
Nay CA-51 Filner, Bob
Aye CA-52 Hunter, Duncan
Nay CA-53 Davis, Susan

Colorado

Nay CO-1 DeGette, Diana
Aye CO-2 Udall, Mark
Aye CO-3 Salazar, John
Aye CO-4 Musgrave, Marilyn
Aye CO-5 Lamborn, Doug
Aye CO-6 Tancredo, Thomas
Aye CO-7 Perlmutter, Ed

Connecticut

Nay CT-1 Larson, John
Nay CT-2 Courtney, Joe
Nay CT-3 DeLauro, Rosa
Aye CT-4 Shays, Christopher
Nay CT-5 Murphy, Christopher

Delaware

Aye DE-0 Castle, Michael

Florida
Aye FL-1 Miller, Jeff
Aye FL-2 Boyd, F.
Aye FL-3 Brown, Corrine
Aye FL-4 Crenshaw, Ander
No Vote FL-5 Brown-Waite, Virginia
Aye FL-6 Stearns, Clifford
Aye FL-7 Mica, John
Aye FL-8 Keller, Ric
Aye FL-9 Bilirakis, Gus
Aye FL-10 Young, C. W.
Aye FL-11 Castor, Kathy
Aye FL-12 Putnam, Adam
Aye FL-13 Buchanan, Vern
Aye FL-14 Mack, Connie
Aye FL-15 Weldon, David
Aye FL-16 Mahoney, Tim
Nay FL-17 Meek, Kendrick
Aye FL-18 Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana
Nay FL-19 Wexler, Robert
Nay FL-20 Wasserman Schultz, Debbie
Aye FL-21 Diaz-Balart, Lincoln
Aye FL-22 Klein, Ron
Aye FL-23 Hastings, Alcee
Aye FL-24 Feeney, Tom
Aye FL-25 Diaz-Balart, Mario

Georgia

Aye GA-1 Kingston, Jack
Aye GA-2 Bishop, Sanford
Aye GA-3 Westmoreland, Lynn
Nay GA-4 Johnson, Henry
Nay GA-5 Lewis, John
Aye GA-6 Price, Tom
Aye GA-7 Linder, John
Aye GA-8 Marshall, James
Aye GA-9 Deal, Nathan
Aye GA-10 Broun, Paul
Aye GA-11 Gingrey, John
Aye GA-12 Barrow, John
Aye GA-13 Scott, David

Hawaii

Nay HI-1 Abercrombie, Neil
Nay HI-2 Hirono, Mazie

Idaho

Aye ID-1 Sali, Bill
Aye ID-2 Simpson, Michael

Illinois

No Vote IL-1 Rush, Bobby
Nay IL-2 Jackson, Jesse
Aye IL-3 Lipinski, Daniel
Aye IL-4 Gutierrez, Luis
Aye IL-5 Emanuel, Rahm
Aye IL-6 Roskam, Peter
Nay IL-7 Davis, Danny
Aye IL-8 Bean, Melissa
Nay IL-9 Schakowsky, Janice
Aye IL-10 Kirk, Mark
No Vote IL-11 Weller, Gerald
Nay IL-12 Costello, Jerry
Aye IL-13 Biggert, Judy
Nay IL-14 Foster, Bill
Nay IL-15 Johnson, Timothy
Aye IL-16 Manzullo, Donald
Nay IL-17 Hare, Phil
Aye IL-18 LaHood, Ray
Aye IL-19 Shimkus, John

Indiana

No Vote IN-1 Visclosky, Peter
Aye IN-2 Donnelly, Joe
Aye IN-3 Souder, Mark
Aye IN-4 Buyer, Stephen
Aye IN-5 Burton, Dan
Aye IN-6 Pence, Mike
Nay IN-7 Carson, André
Aye IN-8 Ellsworth, Brad
Nay IN-9 Hill, Baron

Iowa

Nay IA-1 Braley, Bruce
Nay IA-2 Loebsack, David
Aye IA-3 Boswell, Leonard
Aye IA-4 Latham, Thomas
Aye IA-5 King, Steve

Kansas

Aye KS-1 Moran, Jerry
Aye KS-2 Boyda, Nancy
Aye KS-3 Moore, Dennis
No Vote KS-4 Tiahrt, Todd

Kentucky

Aye KY-1 Whitfield, Edward
Aye KY-2 Lewis, Ron
Aye KY-3 Yarmuth, John
Aye KY-4 Davis, Geoff
Aye KY-5 Rogers, Harold
Aye KY-6 Chandler, Ben

Louisiana

Aye LA-1 Scalise, Steve
Nay LA-2 Jefferson, William
Aye LA-3 Melancon, Charles
Aye LA-4 McCrery, James
Aye LA-5 Alexander, Rodney
Aye LA-6 Cazayoux, Donald
Aye LA-7 Boustany, Charles

Maine

Nay ME-1 Allen, Thomas
Nay ME-2 Michaud, Michael
Maryland
No Vote MD-1 Gilchrest, Wayne
Aye MD-2 Ruppersberger, C.A.
Nay MD-3 Sarbanes, John
Nay MD-4 Edwards, Donna
Aye MD-5 Hoyer, Steny
Aye MD-6 Bartlett, Roscoe
Nay MD-7 Cummings, Elijah
Nay MD-8 Van Hollen, Christopher

Massachusetts

Nay MA-1 Olver, John
Nay MA-2 Neal, Richard
Nay MA-3 McGovern, James
Nay MA-4 Frank, Barney
Nay MA-5 Tsongas, Niki
Nay MA-6 Tierney, John
Nay MA-7 Markey, Edward
Nay MA-8 Capuano, Michael
Nay MA-9 Lynch, Stephen
Nay MA-10 Delahunt, William

Michigan

Aye MI-1 Stupak, Bart
Aye MI-2 Hoekstra, Peter
Aye MI-3 Ehlers, Vernon
Aye MI-4 Camp, David
Aye MI-5 Kildee, Dale
Aye MI-6 Upton, Frederick
Aye MI-7 Walberg, Timothy
Aye MI-8 Rogers, Michael
Aye MI-9 Knollenberg, Joseph
Aye MI-10 Miller, Candice
Aye MI-11 McCotter, Thaddeus
Nay MI-12 Levin, Sander
Nay MI-13 Kilpatrick, Carolyn
Nay MI-14 Conyers, John
Nay MI-15 Dingell, John

Minnesota

Nay MN-1 Walz, Timothy
Aye MN-2 Kline, John
Aye MN-3 Ramstad, James
Nay MN-4 McCollum, Betty
Nay MN-5 Ellison, Keith
Aye MN-6 Bachmann, Michele
Aye MN-7 Peterson, Collin
Nay MN-8 Oberstar, James

Mississippi

Aye MS-1 Childers, Travis
Aye MS-2 Thompson, Bennie
Aye MS-3 Pickering, Charles
Aye MS-4 Taylor, Gene

Missouri

Nay MO-1 Clay, William
Aye MO-2 Akin, W.
Nay MO-3 Carnahan, Russ
Aye MO-4 Skelton, Ike
Aye MO-5 Cleaver, Emanuel
Aye MO-6 Graves, Samuel
Aye MO-7 Blunt, Roy
Aye MO-8 Emerson, Jo Ann
Aye MO-9 Hulshof, Kenny

Montana

Aye MT-0 Rehberg, Dennis

Nebraska

Aye NE-1 Fortenberry, Jeffrey
Aye NE-2 Terry, Lee
Aye NE-3 Smith, Adrian

Nevada

Aye NV-1 Berkley, Shelley
Aye NV-2 Heller, Dean
Aye NV-3 Porter, Jon

New Hampshire

Nay NH-1 Shea-Porter, Carol
Nay NH-2 Hodes, Paul

New Jersey

Nay NJ-1 Andrews, Robert
Aye NJ-2 LoBiondo, Frank
Aye NJ-3 Saxton, H.
Aye NJ-4 Smith, Christopher
Aye NJ-5 Garrett, E.
Nay NJ-6 Pallone, Frank
Aye NJ-7 Ferguson, Michael
Nay NJ-8 Pascrell, William
Nay NJ-9 Rothman, Steven
Nay NJ-10 Payne, Donald
Aye NJ-11 Frelinghuysen, Rodney
Nay NJ-12 Holt, Rush
Aye NJ-13 Sires, Albio

New Mexico

Aye NM-1 Wilson, Heather
Aye NM-2 Pearce, Steven
Nay NM-3 Udall, Tom

New York

Aye NY-1 Bishop, Timothy
Nay NY-2 Israel, Steve
Aye NY-3 King, Peter
Aye NY-4 McCarthy, Carolyn
Aye NY-5 Ackerman, Gary
Aye NY-6 Meeks, Gregory
Aye NY-7 Crowley, Joseph
Nay NY-8 Nadler, Jerrold
Nay NY-9 Weiner, Anthony
Nay NY-10 Towns, Edolphus
Nay NY-11 Clarke, Yvette
Nay NY-12 Velazquez, Nydia
Aye NY-13 Fossella, Vito
Nay NY-14 Maloney, Carolyn
Nay NY-15 Rangel, Charles
Nay NY-16 Serrano, José
Aye NY-17 Engel, Eliot
Aye NY-18 Lowey, Nita
Nay NY-19 Hall, John
Aye NY-20 Gillibrand, Kirsten
Nay NY-21 McNulty, Michael
Nay NY-22 Hinchey, Maurice
Aye NY-23 McHugh, John
Aye NY-24 Arcuri, Michael
Aye NY-25 Walsh, James
No Vote NY-26 Reynolds, Thomas
Aye NY-27 Higgins, Brian
Nay NY-28 Slaughter, Louise
Aye NY-29 Kuhl, John

North Carolina

Aye NC-1 Butterfield, George
Aye NC-2 Etheridge, Bob
No Vote NC-3 Jones, Walter
Nay NC-4 Price, David
Aye NC-5 Foxx, Virginia
Aye NC-6 Coble, Howard
Aye NC-7 McIntyre, Mike
Aye NC-8 Hayes, Robin
Aye NC-9 Myrick, Sue
Aye NC-10 Mchenry, Patrick
Aye NC-11 Shuler, Heath
Nay NC-12 Watt, Melvin
Nay NC-13 Miller, R.

North Dakota

Aye ND-0 Pomeroy, Earl

Ohio

Aye OH-1 Chabot, Steven
Aye OH-2 Schmidt, Jean
Aye OH-3 Turner, Michael
Aye OH-4 Jordan, Jim
Aye OH-5 Latta, Robert
Aye OH-6 Wilson, Charles
Aye OH-7 Hobson, David
Aye OH-8 Boehner, John
Nay OH-9 Kaptur, Marcy
Nay OH-10 Kucinich, Dennis
Nay OH-11 Jones, Stephanie
Aye OH-12 Tiberi, Patrick
Nay OH-13 Sutton, Betty
Aye OH-14 LaTourette, Steven
Aye OH-15 Pryce, Deborah
Aye OH-16 Regula, Ralph
Nay OH-17 Ryan, Timothy
Aye OH-18 Space, Zackary

Oklahoma

Aye OK-1 Sullivan, John
Aye OK-2 Boren, Dan
Aye OK-3 Lucas, Frank
Aye OK-4 Cole, Tom
Aye OK-5 Fallin, Mary

Oregon

Nay OR-1 Wu, David
Aye OR-2 Walden, Greg
Nay OR-3 Blumenauer, Earl
Nay OR-4 DeFazio, Peter
Nay OR-5 Hooley, Darlene

Pennsylvania

Nay PA-1 Brady, Robert
Nay PA-2 Fattah, Chaka
Aye PA-3 English, Philip
Aye PA-4 Altmire, Jason
No Vote PA-5 Peterson, John
Aye PA-6 Gerlach, Jim
Aye PA-7 Sestak, Joe
Aye PA-8 Murphy, Patrick
Aye PA-9 Shuster, William
Aye PA-10 Carney, Christopher
Aye PA-11 Kanjorski, Paul
Aye PA-12 Murtha, John
Nay PA-13 Schwartz, Allyson
Nay PA-14 Doyle, Michael
Aye PA-15 Dent, Charles
Aye PA-16 Pitts, Joseph
Aye PA-17 Holden, Tim
Aye PA-18 Murphy, Tim
Aye PA-19 Platts, Todd

Rhode Island

Nay RI-1 Kennedy, Patrick
Aye RI-2 Langevin, James

South Carolina

Aye SC-1 Brown, Henry
Aye SC-2 Wilson, Addison
Aye SC-3 Barrett, James
Aye SC-4 Inglis, Bob
Aye SC-5 Spratt, John
Aye SC-6 Clyburn, James

South Dakota

Aye SD-0 Herseth Sandlin, Stephanie

Tennessee

Aye TN-1 Davis, David
Aye TN-2 Duncan, John
Aye TN-3 Wamp, Zach
Aye TN-4 Davis, Lincoln
Aye TN-5 Cooper, Jim
Aye TN-6 Gordon, Barton
Aye TN-7 Blackburn, Marsha
Aye TN-8 Tanner, John
Nay TN-9 Cohen, Steve

Texas

No Vote TX-1 Gohmert, Louis
Aye TX-2 Poe, Ted
Aye TX-3 Johnson, Samuel
Aye TX-4 Hall, Ralph
Aye TX-5 Hensarling, Jeb
Aye TX-6 Barton, Joe
Aye TX-7 Culberson, John
Aye TX-8 Brady, Kevin
Aye TX-9 Green, Al
Aye TX-10 McCaul, Michael
Aye TX-11 Conaway, K.
Aye TX-12 Granger, Kay
Aye TX-13 Thornberry, William
No Vote TX-14 Paul, Ronald
Aye TX-15 Hinojosa, Rubén
Aye TX-16 Reyes, Silvestre
Aye TX-17 Edwards, Thomas
Nay TX-18 Jackson-Lee, Sheila
Aye TX-19 Neugebauer, Randy
Nay TX-20 Gonzalez, Charles
Aye TX-21 Smith, Lamar
Aye TX-22 Lampson, Nicholas
Aye TX-23 Rodriguez, Ciro
Aye TX-24 Marchant, Kenny
Nay TX-25 Doggett, Lloyd
Aye TX-26 Burgess, Michael
Aye TX-27 Ortiz, Solomon
Aye TX-28 Cuellar, Henry
Aye TX-29 Green, Raymond
Nay TX-30 Johnson, Eddie
Aye TX-31 Carter, John
Aye TX-32 Sessions, Peter

Utah

Aye UT-1 Bishop, Rob
Aye UT-2 Matheson, Jim
No Vote UT-3 Cannon, Christopher

Vermont

Nay VT-0 Welch, Peter

Virginia

Aye VA-1 Wittman, Rob
Aye VA-2 Drake, Thelma
Nay VA-3 Scott, Robert
Aye VA-4 Forbes, James
Aye VA-5 Goode, Virgil
Aye VA-6 Goodlatte, Robert
Aye VA-7 Cantor, Eric
Nay VA-8 Moran, James
Aye VA-9 Boucher, Frederick
Aye VA-10 Wolf, Frank
Aye VA-11 Davis, Thomas

Washington

Nay WA-1 Inslee, Jay
Nay WA-2 Larsen, Rick
Aye WA-3 Baird, Brian
Aye WA-4 Hastings, Doc
Aye WA-5 McMorris Rodgers, Cathy
Aye WA-6 Dicks, Norman
Nay WA-7 McDermott, James
Aye WA-8 Reichert, Dave
Aye WA-9 Smith, Adam

West Virginia

Nay WV-1 Mollohan, Alan
Aye WV-2 Capito, Shelley
Aye WV-3 Rahall, Nick

Wisconsin

Aye WI-1 Ryan, Paul
Nay WI-2 Baldwin, Tammy
Aye WI-3 Kind, Ronald
Nay WI-4 Moore, Gwen
Aye WI-5 Sensenbrenner, F.
Aye WI-6 Petri, Thomas
Nay WI-7 Obey, David
Nay WI-8 Kagen, Steve

Wyoming

Aye WY-0 Cubin, Barbara
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's hard to understand why you think Obama should not be
held accountable. Instead you want me to look at how other's voted. They are not running for President-Obama is.

In 1799, Thomas Jefferson echoed that: "Free government is founded in jealousy, not confidence . . . . Let no more be heard of confidence in men, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitutions." Between (a) relying on the limitations imposed by the Constitution or (b) placing faith in the promises of a political leader not to abuse his unchecked power, it isn't really a difficult choice -- at least it ought not to be, no matter who the political leader in question happens to be.

Those warrantless eavesdropping powers violate core Fourth Amendment protections. And Barack Obama now supports all of it, and will vote it into law. Those are just facts. http://www.boingboing.net/2008/06/24/obamas-support-for-t.html
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DFLforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. You sound like you expect him to veto it.
He doesn't have that power yet.

Personally, I think it more worthwhile for me to call my two US senators whom I want to oppose the bill.
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Mira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Yeah - Liddy Dole and Burr for me. I did it. Was it worth it? NOT
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Barack Obama is running for President, he is not (yet) President.
Therefore he curretnly has just as much power as any other member of Congress, no more, no less. Stop being so determined to undermine him and think about it logically for a minute.
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Youphemism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. He can't wave a magic wand and make it all better for you. Learn that now...

I didn't say anything about not holding folks accountable. Accountability is what that post was all about.

FYI, I also contacted Obama and complained about FISA. But to look at the posts on these boards, you'd think he'd sponsored it. He didn't. He acquiesced to reality after the House Democrats failed us.

I didn't say not to let Obama know how you feel about this. I suggested that people put their complaints to a more positive use.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Change Minds, Change Votes
We aren't winning the war of ideas on these issues.
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You're right
We're not even fighting the war of ideas here, we've decided to concede that ground to the other party.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes, I'm just so darned annoyed about the shredding of the Constitution!
Golly, it never occurred to me to direct my pique to my Senators. Whew! Guess that leaves the man who would be my president off the hook!
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11cents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Oh -- there's that "whining" again.
Youphemism: if you agree that the FISA issue is worth getting angry about, please desist from insulting the people who have the temerity to hold the leader of the Democratic Party and soon-to-be-Democratic-nominee accountable for his stance. Obama is not just any senator -- and even if he were, this is a bill now before the SENATE, so why shouldn't we care where SENATOR OBAMA stands? Holding Obama accountable is "whining" but holding Reid, Feinstein, etc., accountable is righteous? Wrong.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Holding him accountable is very different from acting like he's the only person voting.
Very different.
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11cents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Yes. Obama's stance is more important than that of other senators.
He's the Democratic candidate for President. This is a bill that pertains to Presidential powers. Many of us had hopes that Obama would do the difficult work of restoring the concept of rule of law, which means giving up the powers usurped by the illegitimate Bush executive branch. There's more -- much MUCH more -- riding on his stand here than on Senator Anybody's. Face the fact that his FISA actions have been deeply disappointing and disturbing to good Democrats who care about the Constitution -- and who are not "whiners." Trying to deflect attention from the bare facts just won't work, and isn't a worthy thing to do.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. How is he supposed to "restore the concept of rule of law" as one Senator?
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Youphemism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Uh, Representatives are not Senators, FYI...

The Dems have a better majority in the House. If they were going to stop FISA, that's the only place it could have happened.

Once the bill made it to the Senate, the battle was lost -- especially when over 100 House Dems sided with it.

The Senate votes mean less... Those who vote against FISA know it will pass anyway. You'll never know how many Senators who voted against FISA would have voted for it, had the vote been closer.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't tell them, too. It's just this stunning 100+ Democrat cave-in in the House is so disturbing. That is where the larger proportion of the blame and anger should be. Without that incredible sellout, FISA would not be possible.
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Great post.
A lot of people want to lay FISA directly at Obama's feet even though he, alone, can't change or veteo the bill. What you're suggesting is exactly what Arianna, Jane, Marcos, and the other "ringleaders" should have asked people to do a long time ago. If people truly want the FISA bill changed or rejected, it's going to take an act of Congress, literally. Running for President doesn't give you extra votes in the Senate.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Are you actually telling me that Obama's vote in the Senate does not trump all the others? n/t
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Youphemism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. That's exactly what I'm saying. One Senator, one vote. Not complicated.

And, as I've said in previous posts, the Dems have no clear majority in the Senate. They do in the House, but a gaggle of them crossed party lines there. That's where FISA was enabled. With that big of a majority, the game was over before the bill made it to the Senate.
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grizmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. If Obama won't sie with protecting the Constitution
We'll do it without him.

I see Langevin from RI once again has chosen the most disgusting indefensible course. He will be getting a cogent nastygram from me this week.
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MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Righteousness over the Constitution does not justify making it the only issue before election.
Especially when a Constitutional lawyer-with every indication of valuing it-could be our next president and fix even more damage. If we don't screw it up...
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11cents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. There's almost nothing Obama could do that would keep me from voting for him.
But the notion that we should overlook anything he does now in hopes that he'll be able to "fix" it as President is not sound or realistic. The problems he'll face in "fixing" things as President will be more severe than what he faces now as candidate and Senator, not less. If he's not willing to take the risks now, I don't believe he will be as President. Just a sobering fact.
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Youphemism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-06-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. At least you're holding everyone accountable. I can respect that.

I don't see this single issue as a reason to go against Obama at all -- especially since his stand against FISA would have been entirely symbolic. He could not have stopped it. So, I guess we disagree there.

But you're acknowledging that others had a big hand in getting this through, and you're holding them accountable.

Good for you.
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