Kerry has a good point

[LuckyTheDog]

It is downright stupid for the GOP to criticize Obama for being reasonable. Obama has always said that we need to leave Iraq responsibly and slowly.

Even the Graham ends up quoting Obama saying that we should leave Iraq "responsibly" and "deliberately."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvy87RmgoxU

Obama's position has always been the same: End the war, but do so in a way that makes sense.

Everybody knows it will take a long time to untangle ourselves from the Iraqi debacle. Obama has been very consistent about that. For the right to characterize that as a "flip flop" is nonsense.

[Hippo_Tron]

1. The key is that timetable does not = deadline

The way this works is that you tell the Generals what you want, when you want it, and under what conditions. Obama says 16 months they tell him that 2 years is more realistic. They wind up meeting somewhere in the middle.

The reality is that Obama is going to stop fighting this war and McCain is going to keep fighting it. It's that simple.

[Cha]

2. Exactly..now I'm reading on another thread that

mccain wants to rehaul "the entitlement program" Social Security with the following solution..

<snip>

“The McCain administration would reserve all savings from victory in the Iraq and Afghanistan operations in the fight against Islamic extremists for reducing the deficit. Since all their costs were financed with deficit spending, all their savings must go to deficit reduction.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6463837

[Jackpine Radical]

4. Great minds...(see below)

[Inuca]

14. How can you save money you do not have?!?!?

Finance is definitely not my strong point, but I just do not get it.

[Jackpine Radical]

3. Oh, no. Haven't you heard? McNutso is going to accomplish a VICTORY

in Iraq and Afghanistan and then we're gonna pay off the national debt with our Social Security and Medicare money. Tra la la, tra la la, dancing merrily along and scattering rose petals...

[Cha]

5. And munching on freaking

chocolate:grr:

[LuckyTheDog]

6. And if the situation changes, the PLAN will change

If it takes 4 years, it'll be better than ending another 4 years with no end in sight.

I personally think it will take longer than Obama hopes to untangle ourselves from that mess. but Obama WANTS to untangle us. McCain doesn't. Big difference.

[Hippo_Tron]

7. I think the key is getting the region to take some responsibility for the situation

Yes we are the ones responsible for fucking it up in the first place, but ultimately they are the ones who can create stability. At the end of the day Iran and Saudi Arabia do not want to go to war with each other yet that is ultimately the risk that comes from an unstable Iraq.

Obama needs to broker an agreement between Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia that gets Iran and Saudi Arabia to crack down on Shia extremeists and Al Qaeda respectively. He needs to provide the Saudis with adequate assurances that the Sunnis will be protected and adequate assurances to Iran that we are not going to invade them and may consider lifting some sanctions.

[Masterofarts11]

8. Kerry should run for VP

He's sharp as a knife.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. Kerry's a great Senator.

Why would he want to subject himself to the brutality of a national run again? And why would he be more electable now than he was in 2004?

[PresidentObama]

11. More electable? He got more votes than any Democratic candidate in history.

And I don't know about you, but I don't really buy the notion he lost in 2004. RE: Ohio.

[Jackpine Radical]

12. 2004 was stolen in Ohio & Florida. No doubt.

But Kerry was very badly damaged in that election, what with the Swiftboating and other lies they floated. I can't imagine him wanting to do it again. But then I can't imagine wanting to do it in the first place.

[karynnj]

16. You might be right

He clearly was aiming to do so in 2005 and 2006 - I think for the best possible reasons. He had come extremely close to winning and lost to two lies; Iraq and his Vietnam service. Kerry, as much as anyone, led the way on Iraq in 2005 and 2006 - even Obama did not vote for Kerry/Feingold and Edwards had a more tepid position then and did not advocate for it. The SBVT were discredited and proven to be liars. There was no one with more credentials over all on national security (even George Will credited him with being right in 2004), the environment, what to do with Iraq (a variation of K/F is the Democratic position), healthcare (HRC would have had difficulty claiming initiating S-Chip with Kerry on the stage) etc. He also did a huge amount for 2006.

In his Senate speech, he spoke of the things that needed to be done right then that couldn't be done if he ran - that were needed to give the 2008 winner a better chance to right things. In fact, I doubt that all the Democrats would have backed the Iraq plan had Kerry stayed in. It looked too much like K/F and that convergence would help Kerry. He also was the entire Congressional delegation to Bali - and was even credited by one person on the official team as having been essential to there being a agreement. The agreement is the first step in a process that will create the successor to Kyoto - the US not being part of it would have been a disaster.

That was likely the main reason, but I assume that part of the completely unjustified reaction to the "joke", where the intended text was given before the appearance to the media. This showed that the media and even some of the Democratic party would give him absolutely no break. (Consider McCain got a break on a worse comment on lives lost because of his decades of support of veterans (and even worse Clear Channel said that Rush Limbaugh deserved a break on the "phony soldiers" because he "supported the troops for 2 decades"), there was no such defense even though Kerry has been a leading advocate for the troops, since he was one.) This had to clue Kerry in that the attacks would be as bad as they were at their worst in 2004 - and that they would hit not just him, but his family and his very loyal former crew, many of whom really suffered in 2004 because of it.

Kerry gave a very nice speech for a retiring SFRC staffer of his. In addition to going through the things she worked on for him (including many I never knew of), he spoke of the thesis she had written in college - on how much impact a Senator, who never becomes President can have. This was well before Kerry knew her and not related to their work together. As the speech was very near in time to the other, I think it was part of Kerry's thinking of what he could best do to help the country.

[Inuca]

15. Nicely put, though

I am not sure about the VP part. And welcome to DU :hi:!

[muryan]

10. It doesn't help that Obama is being attacked from both sides

The McCain camp doesn't have to do anything besides read liberal blogosphere for their talking points.

His stance on Iraq has been the same since day one, and some people's short-sightedness is extremely frustrating.

[Orsino]

13. It's far too late for "responsibly" and "deliberately."

YMMV, of course, but sooner would seem to be better than carefully. * has frittered away years that could have been used for a so-called "responsible" withdrawal.

I'd like to think I'm being reasonable, but we are once again faced with the question: "Who should be the last to die for a lie?" Which of our troops, indeed, should be the last to kill for the lie? The sheer, breathtaking size of the swindle doesn't necessarily obligate us to leave more slowly.