Barrack Obama seeks the help of God to attract more votes

[tidy_bowl]

Source: UK Times Online

Christian radio stations are broadcasting adverts in which Barack Obama describes how he let Jesus in his life as he knelt before a cross in a Chicago church 23 years ago.

"I felt that I heard God's spirit beckoning me," the Democratic nominee says, "I submitted myself to his will, and dedicated myself to discovering his truth."

The adverts are being funded by an organisation called the Matthew 25 Network, named after a biblical passage in which Christ promises redemption for those who care for the least and the lost.

Although not formally linked to Mr Obama's campaign, the network is part of a concerted effort to prise off a chunk of a Christian vote that has long been regarded as the more or less exclusive preserve of Republican presidential candidates.
Related Links





Read more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4281940.ece

---

I don't think that acting like a fundie is a good plan for him.

[Blue_In_AK]

1. Gag.

I can't stand this stuff. Is this really necessary?

[Duke Newcombe]

3. Yeah...because...

you know, even God-believers deserve decent representation too.

Duke

[Blue_In_AK]

18. Oh, I know they do,

but I just get tired of hearing about all this "coming to God" stuff in a political campaign. I suppose it doesn't really matter how many of us Godless commie hippie freaks get turned off by this talk as long as it brings in more voters, right? Obama knows he's got us anyway, because what's the alternative? There is none.

[laconicsax]

19. Yeah...because...

Theists are way underrepresented in politics. It's about time a candidate for office stopped courting the non-Christian vote.

[Duke Newcombe]

20. So, would I be reaching if...

...I assumed your line of though was that the Democratic Party (or the Progressive movement) should be a "Theist-free" zone, and if you want any consideration of people of faith, then one should seek out the Republicans?

I want to understand where you're coming from on this.

Duke

[Zhade]

58. You'd be reaching so far you'd tap yourself on the shoulder.

There's a difference between "oh come on, not this silly shit again" and "die believer!"

TRY to think instead of instantly playing victim - which you're sooooooooooo not.

[Duke Newcombe]

62. No victimology at all.

Just asking a question to find out who you are. I'm satisfied now.

Duke

[Zhade]

66. First off, I'm not the person you asked, so you didn't ask to find out who *I* am.

I wasn't in the conversation at the time - so you're either being dishonest as to the motivation of your comment, or you're not paying attention to the fact that it wasn't asked of me.

Second, "I assumed your line of though was that the Democratic Party (or the Progressive movement) should be a "Theist-free" zone" is victimized whining.

[Duke Newcombe]

71. You're right--responded to the wrong person. Sorry about that.

But thank you for answering the question, anyway--I now DO in fact know "who you are". Thanks for that as well.

Duke

[Zhade]

90. Yes, you now know I have no time for mythical nonsense.

I freely admit to that.

[Kali]

75. fuck yes the party should be theist-free

all of government should be free of this shit

I am sick of it. Keep it to yourself or your church.

[Duke Newcombe]

94. Your concern is noted.

Duke

[Runcible Spoon]

166. has anyone told you how fucking stupid typing that over and over sounds?

if you must condescend through rude, intellectually lazy rhetoric, please at least attempt a modicum of originality. Too much to ask? :shrug:

[Duke Newcombe]

189. No, in fact no one has told me that.

I'm just tired of the "fake outrage" from the irreligious here. Sorry if it hit too close to home.

You concern regarding my snark is noted.

Duke

[Perky]

151. HEY...IT IS OUR PARTY TOO...

[Solon]

188. Should the political party itself be theocratic, or acknowledge the Christian God in its platform?

If so, then basically that turns it into a "Christian only" club.

[Duke Newcombe]

190. And yet, curiously enough, NO ONE SAID IT SHOULD BE A THEOCRACY.

How exactly did you make the gargantuan leap from a call for inclusion to someone wishing our party to be a Theocracy?

Duke

[Solon]

191. I didn't say anything about the country as a whole, only the party...

it seems to me that, for some Christians, NOT acknowledging God in the party's platform is offensive, in and of itself.

[Duke Newcombe]

195. Nor did I. Your concern was the party becoming...

A Theocracy. I addressed it. Didn't mention the entire country.

Duke

[Solon]

196. As a religious minority in this country, can you at least understand my concern...

when a politician who is running for the most powerful position in the country is talking up their own religion?

The problem I have is with the TONE of the politics, which is exclusionary to everyone who isn't a Christian in this country.

[Duke Newcombe]

202. When he begins talking about Biblical principals...

...then I'd be concerned. In this instance, however, context is key. He was addressing a Christian venue, discussing his faith.

This is not unreasonable, no more so than if he addressed, say, NARAL. I as a Christian might not like it, but I'd not let that tarnish the whole man, or his plans to help this nation.

Duke

[JDPriestly]

206. Obama is not running the ad. So, really, how can the people who

are running the ad speak for Obama? The Constitution prohibits applying a religious test when considering people for government offices. The ad is inappropriate, but the people running it mean well and have the right to run it.

The problem is that some people put on a holier than thou front and run for office pretending to be religious and then do horrible things. Does that remind you of anyone? All it takes is a couple of hypocrites in prominent positions pretending to be Christian then acting like hateful monsters once they have the power to give all religious people a bad reputation.

Meanwhile, everyone forgets about the wonderful influence that sincerely religious leaders like Martin Luther King and even Jimmy Carter have had. Don't take it personally. It has to do with Bush and his ilk and not with people who are sincerely religious and loving toward their fellow human beings.

[Hoof Hearted]

208. Get your shit together.

1) A PARTY is a private enterprise and neither a branch nor a function of government. It cannot, therefore be a "Theocracy."
2) The person you leveled this accusation toward never made any assertion of the sort.

BTW, we can read you fuckin' screen name. You really don't need to sign every post with "DUKE."

[Duke Newcombe]

226. Your concern is noted.

Late concern, and concern referring to something that was already resolved, yes, but appreciated just the same.

Have a blessed day.

Duke

[Perky]

203. Umm excuse me....

Alll that was said is that itisour nparty too.. WQe are not demanding theocracy or even party control. If youk at the language at the top of the subthread. some people seem to want to exclude all Christinas... Not from Government but from the party.

[JoFerret]

126. The routine worked

for Bush.
But then they didn't get the representation.

It's still gagworthy.

[jbnow]

243. For Obama it might be more necessary

than any other candidate. A large minority still think he is Muslim, not a vote getter.

For some Christians it's not enough to go to church, this accepting Jesus means something...so maybe some who think he was likely Muslim will think he's Christian now.

Will it gain him votes? Maybe not many but it might help people be less afraid if he becomes president.

I'm glad this wasn't his ad though

[tekisui]

2. Give me a link where they spell his name right.

:eyes:

[Duke Newcombe]

55. Those zany Brits....

With their "colour" and "apologise"...whaddya gonna do?

Duke

[stillcool]

4. 'although not formally linked"..

God damn Obama for trying to appeal to those voters! He isn't going to be their President. It's not like he has to explain his faith or anything. We all know he is a lying heathen who is going to give the country away to the Black people, the Muslims, the Christians, the Republicans, The Far Left, the Rich people, and the Welfare Queens.

[JeanGrey]

80. In a country where something like 90 percent believe in god

and the vast majority of those are christian, why wouldn't he?

[jedr]

5. Joe Bageant ,in the book "Deer Hunting with Jesus"

Goes into this in great detail. If you want a Democratic President, you are going to need to deal with guns and god ,or plan on losing.

[Skittles]

7. OK answer this

if someone was inclined to vote for someone based on GOD AND GUNS, why would they go half-way with Obama when they can go all the way to sanctimonious piece of shit HEAVEN with a repuke?

[jedr]

9. That's not THE answer; that's your answer..........

http://www.counterpunch.org/bageant04282007.html

[Skittles]

17. that's a QUESTION, not an ANSWER n/t

[jedr]

127. Out of curiosity

did you take the time to read the link?

[Duke Newcombe]

25. Because they also are pragmatic...

...but don't like to be taken for granted by the "hipper than thou" attitude that has been customary from the left towards people of faith in general, and Christians in particular. The candidate who recognizes them, and treats them with _some_ measure of respect, whether they agree 100% with them or not, can access their support.

Duke

[Skittles]

31. I'll take hipper over holier ANY DAY

ANY day

[Duke Newcombe]

32. Some how, I wasn't surprised by this n/t

Duke

[Skittles]

35. well you're not completely brainwashed then n/t

[quakerboy]

120. To hazard a guess

Perhaps some of the God and Guns (throw in the Gays for good measure) voters also care about being able to make a living wage or social security or the many other issues that humans might care about.

Maybe they just are caught on the G's because of some psychological or social reasons. Maybe and if we can work on the other issues where we have more in common, the G's will turn out to really not be that big a deal to them.

Or we can just limit ourselves to fighting over the Cons pet issues. Up to you, us.

[Telly Savalas]

205. Well, if both candidates like God and won't take away guns

then they're free to choose between the one who will fuck them over economically and prolong the war in Iraq, or the candidate that won't do these things.

[Skittles]

6. I............ER.........

please tell me this is not true :puke:

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

143. How do you expect him to get elected

without courting as many voters as possible? Did we suddenly manufacture new dem voters that I'm not aware of? Should he keep running a primary campaign and hope for the best? He is introducing himself to the entire country right now, not just dems. Many christians want to know someone is religious before they even consider looking at policy issues - what's wrong with Obama fighting off the Muslim meme and letting people know he is a practicing christian? Sheesh, I'm a non-practicing Jew and even I get it.

[Pastiche423]

8. Blech

[scarface2004]

10. i d like him better if he were an aetheist muslim!!

enough of the religious bullshit already!!! enough!!!

[DesertFlower]

12. then he wouldn't get elected. nt

[Zhade]

60. Uh, it's impossible to be an atheist Muslim...

What with the former being not a religion, and the later most assuredly so.

[Duke Newcombe]

89. The Right already beat you to that assertion.

You'll have to be a little swifter, really.

Duke

[frog92969]

11. :-(

:puke:

[DesertFlower]

13. big deal. i'm an atheist, but

feel people should be able to choose religion if that's what they want. as long as obama or any other religious person does not try to convert me, then i'm okay with it.

[IndependentDem]

105. I agree...

I'm an Atheist but I'm not anti-religion... and as long as my country is not run by a religion and my government does not legislate based on religions beliefs then I don't care what religion they are or what church they go to. Thats one of the things that pissed me off about the Muslim smears.. WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT RELIGION THEY ARE!!

[TBF]

152. With y'all on that ....

He's got to be careful with his faith-based approach to things, but as long as it just inspires him and is not connected to hiring, or mandated in any way, than I'm ok with it.

[liberalpress]

220. You may be the first

reasonable Atheist I've run across here. I'm a believer, you're not. OK. Isn't that one of the principles the country was founded on? The freedom to choose any religious rand or no brand at all. Obama should have the same right to express his beliefs as you have to express your non-belief. I think that's sane and reasonable.... and the very definition of the diversity we're always talking about.

[Alcibiades]

14. For thirty years, the Republicans

have cynically and sanctimoniously used the religious faith of poorly-lettered folks to their political advantage. Now, some of them are discovering that maybe voting for Republicans no matter what isn't the best choice for them. Some of the younger ones are not particularly offended by the idea that somewhere there are some gay folks who might be having sex.

Barack Obama is a Christian. He's not coming off like a fundie simply by talking about his religion. He claims to have a personal relationship with Jesus. It has been alleged that Jesus is not God. Who's right, here?

Beats me. But if Barack Obama can shave off 5% of the evangelical vote by reciting a few religious formulas, I'm OK with that, particularly if we get out of Iraq and get universal health care. He can put thirteen Jesus fish pins on his lapel next to the 13 US flag pins. If it gets us closer to having a Supreme Court that will actually uphold the Constitution, he can start speaking in tongues and handling snakes.

[LiveLiberally]

23. Amen! :) n/t

[Skittles]

30. um

"I submitted myself to his will, and dedicated myself to discovering his truth." - that is fundie-speak

[Art_from_Ark]

129. Didn't bu$h say something like that?

And Huckabee, too?

Bleah.

[bunnies]

136. And Clinton And Edwards.

:eyes:

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

144. It's religious speak

There's nothing wrong with being religious. Obama has a firm understanding of the Constitution - I'm sure he gets separation of church and state, and I'm confident he will uphold and defend the Constitution while in office. He is simply introducing himself to a different block of voters - should we simply ignore a huge part of the country and hope for the best come November?

[Hoof Hearted]

209. F

I
S
A

[Alcibiades]

178. It sure is

So long as he does not walk the walk, he can talk the talk all he wants.

[Zhade]

61. As long as HE doesn't violate the separation of church and state...

...I don't care what nonsense he believes.

[Cha]

207. Hallelujah

dude!

[Bette Noir]

15. I still hope he wins, because I don't want McCain in,

but I had sincerely hoped I'd be able to vote *for* someone this year, rather than *against* someone else.

I don't want even a *tiny bit* of theocracy in the government.

Honest, this is why I voted against Carter the first time around. Too much Jesus in the campaign. How come they never read the line about praying in the closet?

[jbnow]

244. This wasn't his ad and Carter was not

thought to be a Muslim by almost a fifth of the electorate.

I agreed with Obama wanting to be inclusive and forgive this going further because of the Muslim thing. (No I am not Muslim bashing)
But he also speaks up in churches or in speeches about faith that they need to not think non-believers or the more secular are any less "good" than they are and unpopular topics such as welcoming gays. My words aren't his but he said the same things better

[Sal316]

16. As a person of faith and a liberal...

I say hooray for him.

It's really sad that the RW fundies have so tainted the intersection of religion and politics to the point that if one dares mention God or faith they're automatically accused of "acting like a fundie", as the OP so eloquently put it.

The Matthew 25 project refers to Matthew 25:31-46, the "whatever you do for the least among you, you've done to me" parable. In it, it talks about clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty.

It DOES NOT talk about gays, abortion, communists, the French, or anything even remotely related to the RW fundie talking points. In fact, looking at their actions through the words of this passage, most RW fundies would be sent to 'eternal punishment'.

So, perhaps instead of knee-jerking a response that equates a mention of God to RW fundamentalism, a little thought and reflection is called for.

Obama's faith is a faith equivalent of MLK, Mother Theresa, etc., those that choose to go out into the world and "be Jesus" among the people instead of standing inside the safety of their glass houses and just "talking Jesus".

That's something that's been sorely missing from this country for a long time, people of any faith based in service of others.

It's time we on the left take faith back, out of the hands of the Pharisees and back into the hands of the lepers, hookers, tax collectors, where it was 2000+ years ago.

[DesertFlower]

24. thank you for a well written post.

even though i'm an atheist i totally agree with you.

our beloved michael moore is a practicing catholic and talks about the things jesus preached. is he acting like a fundie?

[Skittles]

26. I would prefer "faith" be left where it belongs

NOT in politics

[DesertFlower]

40. i would too, but unfortunately faith

has become a big issue in politics. i guess it started with carter and then went on to reagan. it's snowballed and i don't know how it can be stopped.

so let's just live with it. we have a chance to elect a great leader -- let's stop sweating the small shit.

[Skittles]

43. LOL

speak for yourself

[Zhade]

63. Upholding the Constitution is not "the small shit".

Sorry, we're not going to allow religion in government. Period.

That said, as long as he keeps his faith strictly separate from his politics once in office, he can believe whatever he wants.

[Duke Newcombe]

44. So he's talking to a Christian group...

...discussing his relationship with Christ...shocking.

Duke

[DesertFlower]

48. OMG.

this is terrible.:sarcasm:

[Sal316]

65. Absolutism sucks ass.

You do realize that your absolutism in demanding faith be completely separate from politics is no different than the RW fundies demand that the two become one?

You also risk alienating people like me, who are liberal through and through, but not content to sit there and have you tell me that my faith is irrelevant and has no place.

My faith has a huge impact on how I live my life, the decisions I make, the causes I support... it's an innate part of who I am.

There are, however, huge differences between liberals of faith and conservatives of faith. Liberals won't tell you your way is wrong. They won't demand that government endorse their faith. They understand what it takes to live in as diverse a society as we do. They won't use their faith as a bludgeon to instill exclusion and discrimination into the law books.

No.

Liberals of faith understand service (Matthew 25), and environmentalism as stewards of the Earth (Genesis 1), that bringing the Kingdom of God to Earth is taking the Devil's bargain (Luke 4).

If you think people who hold these beliefs have no business in politics, then that's your choice.

[Zhade]

67. As long as secularism holds sway in the laws that govern ALL OF US, your motivation is irrelevant.

It applies solely to you, which I don't think anyone has a problem with - your motivations are yours.

But you will not be allowed to use those motivations - for ill OR good - to make policy.

[Sal316]

72. Wow..."Will Not"?

Just wow.

[Zhade]

91. Yes. We will do everything legally in our power to prevent you from violating the Constitution.

Better get used to it - you do not have the RIGHT to force your beliefs into our laws. Period.

[JeanGrey]

118. Zhade, let me give you a news flash. We don't care what

religion you are or if you are any at all. There is "no" attempt to make you do so. Not by us. And there won't be by the government.

[Zhade]

228. I'm an atheist, so I have no religion - and religious folks like YOU don't worry me.

It's the types who "wow" over the fact that they will not be allowed to violate the separation of church and state - which leads one to conclude they desire to do so - that worry me.

[JeanGrey]

115. Very well put! I couldn't have done better myself!

[JeanGrey]

81. Faith is part of everything in America. We're a god believing

country, like it or not.

[Duke Newcombe]

86. Wanna borrow my Nomex suit?

:)

Duke

[JeanGrey]

111. I might need it. I never thought so until I ran across this thread!

Somehow I am just startled that there seems to be a prevailing idea by some that being a christian is a bad thing and somehow you cannot be a democrat and be a christian, and people seem to be floored that Obama is one although I don't remember him claiming to be an athiest? I mean didn't we go through all that weird Reverend Wright stuff?

I mean, wow. :-)

[Duke Newcombe]

114. I used to be angry...now I'm just amused by it.

Give them enough "rope", and they expose themselves in short order. Makes you think, "So much for the 'Big Tent'" party, eh?

Duke

[JeanGrey]

116. Well it is very troubling, I must admit.

[Beer Snob-50]

130. I think that mentioning faith helps to show where obama comes from

having faith in a higher being is not a bad thing. just because those on the right have perverted the term doesn't mean that we cannot take it back. jesus was for what we on the left believe. that is, for those less fortunate than ourselves.

[elocs]

133. You could argue that "faith" or, more accurately "religion" does not belong in government,

but politics is something different altogether. It involves a little thing called "Freedom of Speech" where you get to talk about or discuss whatever you like. I'm surprised because Democrats are usually familiar with that concept.

[polmaven]

156. I don't think

there is a problem with religion being "in politics" as you put it. Many politicians are religious people. I am one of them.

There is a difference between religion in politics and religion as government. The Establishment clause of the Constitution is firm and resolute in my mind. I do not want a "state" religion. I don't believe Senator Obama wants that either.

Part of the reason I don't want my religion dictating to my government (not politics) is because it seems to me that then it is a very short step to my government dictating to my religion. Both, in my estimation are dangerous. The fact that Senator Obama is "courting" the religious middle...as well as the religious left...by demonstrating his grounding in a belief in God as the foundation can only be advantageous to getting him elected.

[Levgreee]

201. Faith belongs in politics, because politics is very much about peoples's values

you can't disconnect politics from values, and hence you cannot disconnect religion from politics when religion is a large part of many peoples' lives.

You do not have a clear idea about what politics does/should/must involve.

[Hoof Hearted]

210. like hell

[ChazII]

33. Well said!

[Blue_Roses]

142. well said!

and thank-you:thumbsup:

[PSPS]

21. What's next? Vestments and a staff?

[ben_meyers]

22. I don't think that acting like a fundie is a good plan for him

What if he isn't acting?

[DesertFlower]

28. and what if he isn't?

what do you think is going to happen? his views are still the same.

don't you remember in the beginning of his campaign he told a christian audience that homophobia is wrong? did you forget how he talked about if one of his daughters became pregnant that she shouldn't be punished with a baby?

he's a christian, big f-----g deal.

[Skittles]

29. "I submitted myself to his will, and dedicated myself to discovering his truth."

that's is f***ing fundie-speak

[DesertFlower]

34. i still don't see the problem.

obama is going to be prez and he's going to be a damn good prez. i don't really care what his relationship with jesus is.

[Skittles]

41. THAT is a problem

[DesertFlower]

49. i think you're a problem. nt

[Zhade]

64. Supporting the separation of church and state is a "problem"?

NT!

[Bill McBlueState]

147. the ad hominem is always a last resort, I guess. n/t

[Sal316]

69. Article VI goes both ways.

"...no Religious test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

So not only does demanding one be a Christian to be President violate the spirit of this clause.....

.... so does saying it is a problem is he IS a man of faith as a condition for Public Office.

Both are, in essence, religious tests.

[elocs]

140. Evidently the pissed off anti-religionists having nothing to say about this post.

Their silence speaks volumes about where they are really coming from.

[Bill McBlueState]

148. nearly all of our Presidents have been Christians

So, obviously, nobody has a problem with a President who is a Christian. Apart from some early Deists, nearly every President has been a Christian.

It's the open pandering to religious extremists that's the problem. Until recently, people were content to let their candidates practice their faith privately.

[Zhade]

236. I agree with your interpretation.

That's not where the concern comes in - it's in wondering if those who are so outspokenly religious will remember that they have NO RIGHT to legislate their beliefs.

Secularism works. Indeed, it's the only thing that's ever allowed societies to thrive.

[atreides1]

119. You See Into The Future?

First off we don't know if he's going to be a good president, we hope that he will be. But, he's still a politician, and lately he's been a good politician!

As far as this thread is concerned, I don't care what he believes in, as long as that belief does in no way attempt to usurp the US Constitution.

This is not a "Christian" nation as some would contend, this is a nation with religious diversity and I prefer it that way. And while the majority are "Christian" there are so many denominations that the whole concept of being a "Christian" nation is ludicrous to say the least.

[Duke Newcombe]

37. Wow.

That is all. :crazy:


Duke

[Skittles]

39. sanctimonious people talk like that

it sickens us when repukes do it and it should sicken us when Dems do it

[DesertFlower]

45. i don't like it either, but there's nothing we

can do about it except act like adults and open our minds.

i'm reading some very "narrow minded" posts here. come on guys.

[Skittles]

51. I DON'T WANT DEMOCRATS TO BECOME REPUKES

IS THAT SO MUCH TO ASK???

[Duke Newcombe]

53. Are people of faith only welcome in the Republican party, in your opinion?

Duke

[Zhade]

68. Strawman argument, not what was stated. Dishonest as fuck, too.

NT!

[Duke Newcombe]

73. I have your answer to this question from below the fold.

Thank you.

Duke

[LanternWaste]

171. Par for the course in this thread

"Dishonest as fuck, too."

Par for the course in this thread. particular players of both sides appear intractable and absolute in their interpretations and absurd extrapolations of how, and why the good Senator has said what he's said.

[LostinVA]

204. I think now is a perfect time to discuss Reepicheep

[JeanGrey]

84. Why does being a christian make you a repuke?

[Zhade]

100. It doesn't. Cuddling up to fundies doesn't make you very liberal, though.

NT!

[JeanGrey]

110. HOW is he "cuddling up to fundies"? Are you saying he is

lying?

[Zhade]

229. No, I'm not saying that.

NT!

[JeanGrey]

161. Delete - dup

[Marrah_G]

137. Skittles-

Some people will never understand your frustration of this. I'm with you, the quotes made me cringe. For some people that is normal, everyday speech.

[JeanGrey]

162. What the? It is normal, everyday speech. Are yo claiming

christians are "not normal"?

[Marrah_G]

199. The phrasing is normal in Christian circles

The phrasing. Not the people.

[JeanGrey]

218. No. It is a normal part of belief.

[Duke Newcombe]

46. If he continues this talk, will you vote for him in November?

I would.

Duke

[Skittles]

50. I have to vote for him

because I cannot vote for McCain

[JeanGrey]

83. Reading this thread I continue to be amazed at comments

like this. Submitting to the will of God is part and parcel of being a Christian. Has this fact escaped the notice of so many? It doesn't matter if WE like it or not, the majority of people in this country believe in God. And the majority of those are Christian. Is it really that surprising that Obama is a Christian? I'm not getting this.

[Bill McBlueState]

150. "And the majority of those are Christian."

And the majority of those Christians, at least until recently, were perfectly content for the candidates to practice their religion privately, without public pronouncement.

There's nothing surprising about Christians running for President; nearly all candidates have been Christian in our history. Kerry and Gore are certainly Christians. It's Obama's public proclamation of religiosity, especially his use of evangelical codewords, that's new and discomforting.

[JeanGrey]

163. Give me a break. Evangical "code words"?

I can see that a lot of us need to get a major grip. You sound as if you think it is ok to be a christian as long as you don't talk about it and keep it "in the closet". Oh please..............

[JeanGrey]

164. You mean this way?

Kerry on religion and abortion: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A27920-2004Jul4?language=printer

Gore on religion and what the Bible says and how it applies to global warming:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200605/CUL20060526b.html

I think this is much to do about NOTHING and unfair.

[Runcible Spoon]

168. let me get this straight RE: "Submitting to the will of God"

so, politicians who are Christian submit to the will of God, and govern by the will of God, and as such they craft policy that forces the rest of us to bow down to their idea of the will of God. And you have no problem with this? Those of us who want no part of religion in our PUBLIC government should just shut the fuck up because we are in the minority?!? :puke: :scared:

[liberalpress]

221. If you'll read the Bible

you'll find out how scary this will of God is. Take the Sermon on the Mount for example. We certainly don't want a President to let that be the thing that guides him. Or Love, or acceptance of others, or forgiveness.. e-w-w-. How icky.

[JeanGrey]

223. Submitting to the will of God wasn't bad but then you veered

into fantasy with "govern" according to the will of God.

[JeanGrey]

82. No, actually it is christian speak. Submitting to the will of God

is nothing new if you are Christian. Are you really surprised by this?

[glowing]

121. Depends on how you practice if this is fundie speak...

I submitted myself to his will: His will that all men are created equal. That all men should have food, water, clothing. That all people are something... to do unto other's as I'd have done to myself....

Dedicating myself to discovering his truths: Finding the goodness the spirituality and the awesomeness of this world..

I know many who would say these things of their gods or godesses in other religions..

Seeking enligtenment and betterment within humanity and doing better for this world.. I was brought up within a Christian teaching.. but have sat at Hindu ceremonies and have been "bewitched" with some others.. and they all speak of the same living qualities and speak to the path of enlightenment... Nothing wrong with this at all. To me, I'm not sure how to be an atheist. I'm not sure how to believe in nothing, when I see and feel spirituality all around me. But as always, each to their own .. and perhaps atheists are the supreme enlightened person.. Living in the now and doing as the please and still doing the "right" things, even though they beleive they leave this earth with nothing earned and nothing gained.. could also cause for the other way, and I assume there are many atheists in Washington D.C. who assume this and take all they can for themselves..

[shagsak]

183. How about this one

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I always did think it sounded a bit fundie... Seriously, their creator, who did those guys think they were... the nerve.

[Duke Newcombe]

197. ROTFLMAO!!! NICE!! eom

Duke

[JeanGrey]

224. Ah who cares about that old document? LOL

[Hoof Hearted]

27. Bring me a bucket!

:puke:

[rpannier]

36. It's part of who he is...I'm okay with it

He's said a few things over the past few weeks I've differed with him on...
This is irrelevant to me.

It's very relevant to moderate Christians who feel that Democrats don't care about their views and are openly hostile to them.

There is nothing in his statement that excludes other faiths or non-believers.
This was a statement about him.

[GOPNotForMe]

38. I am uncomfortable with this . . . nt

[Skittles]

42. oh, get ready to be blasted by "people of faith"

who think this is just PEACHY KEEN

[JeanGrey]

85. What is wrong with it?

[DogPoundPup]

237. What part of "We The People" states people of faith aren't included?

[creeksneakers2]

47. Obama truly feels this way

Why can't he share his views with others who might agree with him? I don't see why there is so much cynicism about Obama campaigning for Christian votes.

People can believe what they wish about God. Its only when they claim to speak for him that I have a problem.

[DesertFlower]

52. i'm reading these posts and some people

have a problem with obama being a christian.

i don't give a flying f--- what you think as long as you vote for him.

[Duke Newcombe]

56. Ding, ding, ding, ding...we have a winner, folks! :) n/t

Duke

[Bill McBlueState]

153. nobody has a problem with his being a Christian

Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Dukakis, Mondale, Carter, and McGovern were all Christians. So there's nothing unusual or offensive about a Democratic nominee being a Christian.

It's the use of evangelical codewords to proclaim his faith that secular people find troubling about Obama.

[DesertFlower]

54. okay let's take a hyperthetical.

obama announces that he's really an atheist. he loses the election and we get McCain. is that what you guys want? i don't think so.

[Zhade]

57. GAH! "submit"? What "truth" - the truth of conflicting mythical tales?

Jesus.

(Ha! See what I did there?)

[Duke Newcombe]

59. Will this stop you from voting for him in November?

Duke

[Zhade]

70. Only if he makes it clear he intends to use his views on mythology to govern.

See, I support this little thing called the Constitution.

This is likely just pandering to weak-minded fools, though, so whatever.

[JeanGrey]

112. Really? What did you think of Obama's intention to continue

faith based initiatives then? Does this mean you won't for him?

[Zhade]

230. I do not support violating the Constitution by giving tax money to churches.

No matter who does it, it's illegal.

[AZBlue]

187. It doesn't have to be either/or - the Framers were religious men by a vast majority.

[Hoof Hearted]

211. We are NOT a nation of majority rule - it is designed for plurality - and that design is directly

attributable to the insanity of religious fanaticism, among other things.

[Sal316]

74. ...and now we're on to mocking people of faith.

GAH! "submit"? What "truth" - the truth of conflicting mythical tales?

Thanks for stepping down to the level of RW fundies. What's next? Muslims? Arabs? The French?

Believe what ever you do or don't want to, I could care less. But with what you just said you've just given credibility to the "Democrats hate people of faith" argument the Republicans use.

Congratulations.

[Duke Newcombe]

77. I'm hopeful that Barack can bring a lot of unity to this nation.

He's got a lot of work cut out for him in our own party, as witness to some of the sentiments that have reared their heads here.

Duke

[Zhade]

93. Not BEING a Democrat, it's hard to see how my view applies to all Dems.

I'm an indie here in CA, fwiw.

And last time I checked, I still have the right to call religion as I see it.

[Duke Newcombe]

97. Oh...so you're an INDEPENDENT anti-religionist!!!

Thanks for clearing that up for us--it makes this type of bigotry so much more palatable.


Duke

[Zhade]

101. It's not bigotry to despise religion. Try again.

If I hated believers for BEING BELIEVERS, that would be bigotry. But I don't. I just hate their unproven mythological nonsense.

[Bill McBlueState]

154. what if the tales are, indeed, mythical and conflicting?

The poster may be referring to the differing accounts of the life of Jesus contained in the four gospels. How is it "mocking" to merely point out something that's true? I think of mocking as a overt personal attack, not simply an accurate description of certain writings.

[Zhade]

231. Hey, thanks for getting my back. State a simple fact and people get all pissy!

NT!

[JeanGrey]

87. That is YOUR opinion and you are welcome to it.

But he does not share it. Why is this a problem? How many athiest Presidents have we had lately? How many do you think would get elected in a mostly christian country? Personally I could care less. His religion or lack of has no bearing. You act as if you are surprised?

[Zhade]

96. I'm not surprised. I find language indicating submission to unproven mythological figures troubling.

As far as how many atheist presidents - who knows? It's not like the bullying religious majoritarians in this country would accept one stating he was anyway.

That none would be elected in this country is a sad commentary on its small-minded people.

[JeanGrey]

109. Well I'm sorry you find it troubling, but you are in a very small

minority. Once again, did you think Obama was an athiest? And as far as one being elected, I don't remember one ever running.

[Runcible Spoon]

175. yes we don't deserve to get representation because we are a minority. I guess that means you....

have no problem telling Asian Americans the same thing, fuck your chances of representation because hey, let's face it, you're a minority. :eyes:

So much for representative democracy protecting the vulnerable minorities from the tyranny of majority, as Mill said...

[Zhade]

234. No, I knew he wasn't an atheist - he has a faith, duh.

Let me remind you that even the tiniest minority is (allegedly) protected under our system of governance.

[NattPang]

76. Here his speech.

I don't think
that he is acting
like a fundie.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x155061

[DFLforever]

78. I'm no longer religious but I can recognize

those expressions you consider offensive are not limited to fundies. They could be said by any sincere Christian or non-Christian who believes in a God. If fact they have a decided ecumenical ring.

I'm happy that Obama is trying to break the Right's lock on the 'values voters'. I think it essential if we are going to form a new Democratic majority.

[Duke Newcombe]

79. Shhhhh! You'll ruin the meme here...

That sounds too much like, y'know, COMMON SENSE, COMITY, and WINNING and stuff.... :sarcasm:

Duke

[JeanGrey]

88. Well I understand what he means. Reading this thread I am

getting the distinct idea that some of us think that being a christian is a crime and somehow disqualifies us for the democratic party.

[Duke Newcombe]

92. Yes, it would seem to be that way.

Too bad the delicious irony and hypocrisy of such a position is totally lost on those thinking that way.

Duke

[JeanGrey]

106. It would seem so.

[Zhade]

98. Ah, more victimized whining bullshit.

No one has even suggested it's a crime. You're not being oppressed here.

[JeanGrey]

107. There certainly is enough bitching about it, and it strikes me

as rather odd.

[Zhade]

235. You can't understand what it's like to hear this nonsense repeated daily...

...reminding those of us who don't buy into the nonsense that we're not considered full citizens like the cross-clutchers.

[LanternWaste]

185. No... it simply means we are weak-minded

"being a christian is a crime and somehow disqualifies us for the democratic party. "


No... it simply means we are weak-minded, foolish, and believers in fairy tales. Which works out well for a particular few as they can then condescendingly pat us on the head whilst shaking theirs, and thus validate both themselves and their own beliefs. A zebra telling a giraffe how better to behave like a giraffe.



It's unfortunate that there are extremists on either sides-- a self-chosen few who will dig heels into an imaginary line drawn in the sand and raise a fist into the air with righteous indignation, then close the eyes and say, "'They' are wrong! How dare 'they' for mentioning/not mentioning their faith/lack of faith!"

I despair sometimes... I really do.

[pegleg]

95. I think it's hilarious how much anti-christian bigotry there is here.

No gettin' around it. This is definitely not the same democratic party I grew up in that didn't stand for bigotry. How times have changed.

[Zhade]

99. Whine, whine, whine. "My 80% majority is being oppressed!"

Try learning what bigotry actually is - for one thing, religion is chosen, not an inborn trait like ethnicity or sexual orientation.

[Duke Newcombe]

102. Yeah...those Jewish folks during WWII could have really used your advice.

They had a choice as to whether to be all "Jewish-y", after all... :sarcasm: :crazy:

You DID think through the implications of what you just wrote, didn't you?

Duke

[Bill McBlueState]

155. Do you really need to have this explained to you?

I can't believe you're comparing a particular attitude toward Christianity to the Holocaust.

[Duke Newcombe]

158. No explanation necessary. The Poster's bigotry was easily detected.

Just because a trait is non-immutable doesn't mean there cannot be bigotry applied against a group because of it.

Duke

[Zhade]

232. Once again (though I know you can't grasp this) - disliking, even hating religion is not bigotry.

I don't hate believers for being believers (that WOULD be bigotry), I just despise their ludicrous unproven beliefs.

[pegleg]

104. Like I said I think it's hilarious. You are saying it's not possible

to discriminate against someone because of their religion? A bigot is a bigot.

def. BIGOT - a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. Random House dictionary.

[Zhade]

238. I don't discriminate against believers. I just despise their unproven nonsense.

NT!

[onehandle]

124. Luckily, the religious intolerance at DU has little to do with the real world.

And there are many here who are uncomfortable about it.

[Marrah_G]

139. AH yes- the persecuted Christians........You guys have it really rough!

[Duke Newcombe]

159. So...it's okay to be a bigot...

...until Christians, in your opinion, "really" have it rough?

Interesting concepts of tolerance you have there, progressive.

Duke

[Solon]

184. This sounds a lot like "Reverse Racism" that white people complain about...

a little disagreement with someone's viewpoint, and BAM, they label you a bigot. Its stupidity run amok!

[madrchsod]

103. another example of murdoch`s rag fucking with the democrats

and by reading the comments here a lot of people fell for it....oh well.

[JeanGrey]

108. Really in what way was the newspaper at fault?

[madrchsod]

113. read these two links and you will see

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/07/03/matthew-25-network-gets-to-work/

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=17292483021


they never mentioned who was behind Matthew 25 network

[JeanGrey]

117. But what does that have to do with Barack being a

christian and talking about it to a christian group? We DO need to have dems talking more about their religion. Religion isn't the sole ownership of republicans!

[Runcible Spoon]

165. why? why must we have more Dems talking about their religion?

Do religious people make better leaders or are you admitting that pandering to a specific sector of voters through a channel that has FUCK-ALL to do with policy (err, rather, ir SHOULD have fuck-all to do with policy, don't you agree?)is to be encouraged? :shrug:

[JeanGrey]

167. Pandering? Why is he "pandering" to state who he is and his

beliefs? You don't seem to understand that there is much more to a candidate that just policy. But I'm sure you knew that. You're just pissed because he said he worshipped God.

[Runcible Spoon]

170. don't put words in my fucking mouth.

I am well aware there is more than policy but ya know what? That's all I fucking care about. I don't give a shit if Obama likes to masturbate Wednesday mornings, I don't care of he likes salsa on his omelets. I don't care what fucking religion he is. I want him to govern fairly and sanely. This is why he has my vote.

I just don't want religion to be used as a political tool. It has NO place in policy. Do you agree? And if it has NO place in policy, then it is merely a cheap tool to appeal not to logic but to emotion which yes, is cheap pandering.

[JeanGrey]

176. Nonsense. I repeat you were just pissed and why.

It is about time that some progressives learn that being christian and believing in God is not the sole ownership of the righties!! It is simply ridiculous!

So if you don't care quit squawking about it.

[Runcible Spoon]

179. I'm pissed because I don't want religious rhetoric injected into government/

I'm not pissed because Obama is a Christian. As I posted elsewhere in this thread:

I DON'T FUCKING CARE WHAT RELIGION OBAMA IS.

God is not the sole ownership of anyone because religion really has NO place political policy. As such it's a non-issue unless it's used as a tool to pander to certain sectors of voters.

Do you agree?

[JeanGrey]

214. I agree bu there is NO CRIME in admitting you are a

Christian - to be afraid of hearing it is ridiculous.

[Zhade]

242. No one's even suggested it's a crime. Aren't you tired of that strawman by now?

NT!

[Zhade]

239. We know that believers are all over the political spectrum.

That's not even CLOSE to the problem we're talking about - which is less about Obama and more about the general problem with religion in government, period.

[Duke Newcombe]

192. If policy is all you care about...

Put on your political big boy pants, plug your ears for the next few months, and pull the flippin' lever for him come November.

That is all.

Duke

[muriel_volestrangler]

122. So, from your link:

"To briefly review, the Matthew 25 Network is spearheaded by Mara Vanderslice, who served as director of religious outreach for Kerry-Edwards in 2004, and who has been active in encouraging Democratic candidates to discuss matters of spirituality more openly on the campaign trail.
...
But keep in mind, the ads aren’t coming from Barack Obama or anyone associated with his campaign or the party — this is an independent Christian PAC, targeting Christian voters, on Christian radio, with a Christian message."

which is basically the same as, from The Times:

"Although not formally linked to Mr Obama's campaign, the network is part of a concerted effort to prise off a chunk of a Christian vote that has long been regarded as the more or less exclusive preserve of Republican presidential candidates."

So how is the article "fucking with the Democrats"? Because they didn't mention Mara Vanderslice by name? I'm sure she'll live without the namecheck - I doubt she's doing this for her own ego.

[rox63]

123. The Matthew 25 Network is a PAC run by religious progressives

'Cause Jesus was kinda progressive back in the day.

rox63 (a non-religious progressive who thinks this is cool anyway)

[MJJP21]

125. I don't believe it

I don't believe it. I know he said it but Barack doesn't fit the mold of a born again believer or even one who is that devout. If Barack had been this devoted the fact would have come out long ago. He is a politician and he knows that "God" gets votes. His father I believe was an atheist. Being as intelligent as he is he has had to investigate just what atheism is. Anyone who does the homework on atheism must conclude that atheism has far more to stand on as a position than theism. When you find forums on either atheism or theism you will rarely find atheist sites preventing dialogue or open discussion from theists but you will almost always find limits on theist sites for expressing any atheist viewpoints or debate.
Another point not readily known is that a person is barred from holding office in many states for expressing a position of disbelief. Barack is in effect pulling the rug out from under the republicans.

[JeanGrey]

169. Gee where to start.

"If Barack had been this devoted the fact would have come out long ago."

It DID come out a long time ago. Where have you been? He's been a church member for over twenty years, do you think he attended for 20 years just in case? Also there was nothing in statement about "this devoted". All Christians seek the will of God. One is not "more devoted" to do so.

"Another point not readily known is that a person is barred from holding office in many states for expressing a position of disbelief"

The above statement is so unbelievable that I wonder if we live in the same country. PLEASE feel free to point out what government office you are barred from holding if you DISBELIEVE religion.

I just can't wait.

[rug]

128. That's how the Mormons started.

[Fumesucker]

131. I know that I'll get attacked for this...

Jesus the Christ commanded His followers to treat their fellow man they way they themselves would wish to be treated.

Obama, at least in one instance I can think of, fails to live up to the standard the Christ set forth.

IMHO, that makes Obama a hypocrite.

It's a little known fact that the sin the Christ most often and vociferously denounced was that of hypocrisy.



If anyone can guess what I think Obama is hypocritical about I'll be quite surprised, it's not something that the average American can easily pick up on since it is such an ingrained part of our culture.

[a la izquierda]

134. Are you serious???

The entire state of Oklahoma who considers themselves Christians should be deemed hypocrites then. Everyone who considers themselves Christian should be considered a hypocrite. No one treats everyone as they want to be...not 100% of the time anyway.
Obama didn't call himself Jesus. He found Jesus. Christians strive to be Christ-like, but we never achieve it. We do our best and God loves us for it. Man is fallible.


What is your point?:eyes:

[Fumesucker]

200. Hypocrisy is not a binary condition, there are infinite gradations..

Indeed, we are all hypocrites, but let's face it, some are far more hypocritical than others.

In the particular case which I'm thinking of the hypocrisy is staggering.

Interesting that you do not even ask what behavior on the part of Obama I'm referring to.

[Tyler Durden]

132. As James Bond said to Dr. No:

"Our asylums are FULL of people who think they're Napoleon. Or God."

[Marrah_G]

135. Ugh... I know these stories appeal to some.......

....but they make me cringe.

[elocs]

138. Ahh yes, "religion"--the only thing that matches impeachment and Bush

to get mostly Liberal Democrats hissing and spitting, redfaced, and pissed off to the point where their heads nearly explode. If Republicans really wanted to deny Obama the Liberal vote they should just continually remind them that he is, gasp!--a CHRISTIAN! They would go nuts. It really is a hoot to just read some of the posts in this thread. :rofl: Nobody who is in any way in touch with reality should ever wonder why an out and out Liberal will never be elected President of the United States.

[JeanGrey]

172. Boy it sure has opened my eyes!

[Runcible Spoon]

181. You know what's really pathetically sad is that you think that's funny.

sad sad sad...

[elocs]

198. I do think it is funny when people get all wound up and bent out of shape

simply by Obama's expressing his faith. There are a lot of things in this world to get upset about--that is not one of them.

As far as you believing that I think it's funny is pathetically sad, I would guess you should find an awful lot posted here on DU to also be pathetically sad if that is your measure.

[Zhade]

240. Considering the timing - right after his faith-based bullshit - is it a surprise?

NT!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

141. At least spell his name correctly. It's "Barack," not "Barrack"!!

[Alter Ego]

145. I don't give a shit if he talks up his faith to evangelicals.

[Bill McBlueState]

146. Who are these Christians who need their candidate to be Evangelical?

I'm not sure why it's so important for the Democratic candidate for President to make all these public proclamations of his faith.

In 1960, our candidate felt he had to convince people his religion *WASN'T* a factor in his policy stances. Now, our candidate feels he needs to emphasize how religious he is.

What changed?

[sourmilk]

149. The tinfoil-hatted basement-dwellers are going to have a field day.

[JeanGrey]

173. ROTFLMAO!!

Sorry that wasn't nice. (snicker)

[Runcible Spoon]

180. oh yes, the Will of God told you to snicker at those pesky heathens, eh?

and no, you aren't very nice, especially for someone who claims to represent the religious people on DU.

[Hoof Hearted]

212. Get with it man, it's not the Will of God anymore - he shortened it to Bob.

He was totally bowing to the Bob of God.

[JeanGrey]

217. I claim to represent the religious people on DU?

Oh really, pray tell when did I do that?

[ecstatic]

157. I didn't know some of you were this easily played. After EIGHT years. It's sad really

when will some of you ever learn?

[Runcible Spoon]

160. fat people and atheists will always be the most fucked over populations in America.

easy to pick on, easy to marginalize and blame them for their own alienation from the American metaculture, and severely lacking in any representation in government...

I could put smokers in with them.

I guess you can make the argument that being fat and smoking are unhealthy choices and as such deserve no protections, but really why is our culture so threatened by those who do not believe in Judeo-Christian god?

Being Christian is a prerequisite for being President and YOU ALL FUCKING KNOW IT.

This doesn't bother anyone? :scared:

[JeanGrey]

174. Er, No. There is no such requirement.

It would seem from reading these posts that it is not the "culture" that is so threatened but some non-believers. If you don't believe so be it. But you cannot bend the will of the majority to your will.

[Runcible Spoon]

177. yeah keep telling yourself that.

tell me how likely it is we will see an atheist president. Go ahead, I'm listening. You really need to get a grip and lay of the entitlement complex you are forcing. Yeah, fuck the atheists because they aren't in the majority.

I'm sure God's Will doesn't include that kind of holier-than-thou self-righteousness and I'm sure Jesus loves those of us who don't want religion infecting our governmental policies. How about you talk with Him, since you seem to think you're in direct contact with Him, and let me know what He says about all this.

[JeanGrey]

215. This is only YOUR impression, one I do not share.

[Solon]

186. But the will of the majority can oppress religious minorities, is that it?

It seems to me that you seem to be so concerned about the rights of the majority while completely neglecting the rights of the minority. Religious persecution and discrimination happens to be quite real in this country, even if Christians aren't the victims of it, but the instigators instead.

[JeanGrey]

216. I said NOTHING about suppressing anyone's rights,

that is something you have made up.

[Zhade]

241. Explain why atheists are THE most distrusted minority, then.

What is it about our not having any religion or faith that makes us so disliked?

[ComtesseDeSpair]

182. Faking It?

Anybody else think that Obama is really an atheist pretending to be a Christian in order to be a successful politician?

[TexasObserver]

193. I'm glad Obama mouths these things, but I think all such testimonials are BOGUS.

Politicians go to church because it's good for them politically. All of them.

[Hoof Hearted]

213. I would be more glad if we had Democrats with integrity - especially in the seperation of church and

state.

[liberalpress]

222. Wow

Are you saying that a candidate for President, expressing his belief in God is linking the Church and the State? I respectfullt submit that is wrong. Here is how you can tell if you live in a Theocracy.

Are you prevented, by law, from worshipng a old tire?

Do jack-booted thugs physically prevent you from gathering together to pray to a watermelon?

Do atheists accuse you you of being a whack-job because you think the stuff Jesus did was pretty cool?

Oh wait, I withdraw the last question.

[Straight Shooter]

194. Ugh.

If he really believes he's submitting himself to god's will, I sure as hell would hate for him to have an epiphany while he's POTUS.

[Seabiscuit]

219. George Carlin clue: God doesn't give a flying fuck about your attracting votes, Barack. Further,

he has no sympathy for the kind of KKKristians you're courting.

God doesn't live in some megachurch.

[Marie26]

225. This is hardly new

Obama's website had a whole section on "faith", not one on civil liberties. Yet people are shocked that he embraces evangelicals? It's like people create Obama in their own image.

[Catherina]

227. With God On Our Side

Oh my name it is nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.

Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.

Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I's made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.

Oh the First World War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.

When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.

I've learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.

But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.

In a many dark hour
I've been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you
You'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

233. The responses here are hilarious.

It's because of attitudes like these that a liberal will never be elected in this country.