Is anyone really upset that Obama's a Christian?

[Bill McBlueState]

I was looking over the Democrats' recent nominees for President.

Kerry...Catholic
Gore...Baptist
Clinton...Baptist
Dukakis...Greek Orthodox
Mondale...Methodist
Carter...Baptist
McGovern...Methodist

I suspect you'd have to go back quite a bit further to find a nominee who wasn't a Christian.

So, I don't think anyone is surprised or offended that our current nominee is also a Christian. If we object to Obama's discussion of religion, it's because we want our candidates to practice their religion privately, as has been the tradition through most of our history. Public proclamations of religiosity are distractions from the real work of governing and serve to marginalize religious minorities.

If Obama's using evangelical codewords to get evangelicals to vote for him, that may be a good strategy, but we can at least call it what it is.

[smoogatz]

1. Republicans are.

They'd much rather he was a kalashnikov-wielding muslim terrorist.

[newmajority]

2. Well, we had a VP nominee who wasn't a Christian about 8 years ago

But he's probably not the best example to be mentioning, considering all he's done since then. :(

[Indenturedebtor]

6. As one of DU's resident Jews let me do that thing everyone loves to do

"Lieberman isn't a REAL Jew!" :eyes:

Hehehe yeah I don't think that anyone is upset that Obama is Christian, but I don't think that the faith based initiative stuff is a good idea for our country.

[newmajority]

7. So now the Jews want to throw him out as well?

Not that I'm surprised. Democrats have wanted to get rid of him for years.

[Indenturedebtor]

11. You're funny. Two things that are kinda fucked up with your statement. Make that REALLY

A) I don't speak for all Jews - we are individual human beings. Shocking no?
B) Most Jews happen to be Democrats - only bloc that votes more Dem more consistently by a couple points is AA
C) You assume that some kind of dichotomy exists between Jews and Democrats?

I'm not going to sit here and break it all down. Just do yourself a favor and take a good look at how you think of Jewish people, and racial/ethnic/religious groups in general.

Cheers ;)

[newmajority]

16. What the fuck are you talking about?

The subject of this thread is "non-Christian" candidates. I make one reference to Joe LIEberman, the only "non Christian" candidate there has ever been, to my knowledge.

Quite a ridiculous leap to accuse me of being an "anti-semite" from that, wouldn't you say?

[Indenturedebtor]

23. I didn't call you an anti-semite. But you described Jews as a monolith seperate from the Dem Party

And suggested that you take a look at your views. Sometimes we mispeak. Sometimes our phrasing speaks to our worldview.

[newmajority]

27. I did no such thing

I don't believe I misspoke either, but it's possible you might have misread?

I don't need to look at my views. I know what they are, and they certainly aren't what you misinterpreted them to be.

[Indenturedebtor]

33. Well here's the quote

newmajority (1000+ posts) Mon Jul-07-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. So now the Jews want to throw him out as well?
Not that I'm surprised. Democrats have wanted to get rid of him for years.

--------------


Monolithic statement: "So now the Jews want to throw him out as well?"

Distinction between Jews and Democrats: "Not that I'm surprised. Democrats have wanted to get rid of him for years."

[elocs]

3. There is no separation of church and state in a political campaign.

I don't know why this concept is so difficult to understand. The only thing that can get a Liberal as worked up as about Bush and impeachment is to bring up religion. They nearly burst a blood vessel.

[RichGirl]

4. Yes...of course...

...if there is even just a remote possibility that Obama is pandering to evangelicals...let's call him out on it. That's our job after all. We need to point out every flaw, every weakness, every misstep Obama has...just in case the republicans miss something.

Sometimes I think that democrats want to lose.

[ellacott]

5. I think they want to lose also

They sure don't know how to fight.

[Blue_Roses]

10. ...

whatever...:eyes:

[woolldog]

44. So true....

[Tyler Durden]

8. I don't care if he's a VIKING worshipping ODIN...

...as long as he quits carping about "...Listing to the Spirit of GOD..." telling him to run for President.

Personally, I find that fucking CREEPY.

[jonnyblitz]

9. It's EXACTLY what Bush said and everybody here was up in

arms, the "God chose him" CRAP. I guess it's ok when one of ours does it, though.

[demokatgurrl]

15. Did he really do that? Please say it isn't so

that's what Bush said....:scared:

[bunnies]

22. Link? nt

[Runcible Spoon]

29. ask and ye shall receive my child...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4281940.ece

[bunnies]

36. I see nothing about the spirit of God telling him to run for President.

Nothing at all.

[Runcible Spoon]

42. oh please. connect the dots.

"I felt that I heard God's spirit beckoning me," the Democratic nominee says, "I submitted myself to his will, and dedicated myself to discovering his truth."

flash forward to NOW: "On Saturday, he wrapped up a week in which he had focused on faith, patriotism and service by telling thousands of black Methodists in St Louis: "I won't be fulfilling the Lord's will unless I'm doing the Lord's work"..."It is not part of a political strategy," he insisted. "I say it because I believe it - I've always believed it. This is the work we are called to do as Christians."

Let me make it easy for you: 23 years ago, he heard God's voice calling him into service. Now he's running for President and telling a room full Methodists that he is "doing the Lord's work". We can safely say he is referring to how he plans to govern, no? So, tying these two things together, straight out of his mouth, it is not a stretch or an overstatement to state that God called on him to serve, and he is running for president, and as such serving as president is his service to God.

You can't have it both ways. Either he is a sincere Christian and he believes his policies are his service to God, and as such the statement that running for President is doing God's work is not controversial, or he is just a politician manipulating a voting sector.

Please spare us your fake indignation. :eyes:

[bunnies]

47. Fake indignation? Need a mirror much?

I asked you to back up what you said. Now you want me to "connect dots". :rofl: Sorry but I'd rather base my opinion on what he actually says rather than how you interpret what you think he means.

And personally, I couldnt care less if he's a sincere Christian or not. All politicians use god speak to one degree or another.

"the work of government ought to be advancing spiritual principles in our everyday life". - Dennis Kucinich

[Runcible Spoon]

48. first of all, I didn't say shit. you were responding to another poster.

I merely gave you the link that started all of this. And secondly, I'm sorry if you have issues with critical thinking. Thirdly, I don't give a shit if you can dig up a few Dennis Kucinich generic spirituality quotes; wasn't him pushing faith based bullshit.

I don't give a flying rat's ass what religion a politician is. I do, however, object to having my face rubbed in it every time I read about politics.

[bunnies]

51. ok.

Sorry. My bad. I did confuse you with that other poster.

But actually, Kucinich WAS pushing faith-based bullshit:

Kucinich proposes the creation of a Department of Peace that he said would "make non-violence an organizing principle in our society" based on the "teachings of Christ, of Gandhi, of Dr. King, and of other religious leaders."

I wouldnt call that generic. Would you?

edit: clarity

[Tyler Durden]

59. I didn't support Kucinich either....

[bunnies]

63. No?

ok then. Gravel? Its gotta be Gravel. He's the only one who was really faith-based bullshit free.

[Tyler Durden]

65. What difference does it make?

I just wish he'd shut his pie hole. I spent 50 some years freeing myself from the pit religion had convinced me I belonged in. I don't need his bullshit. He can shut up about GOD any time now.

[bunnies]

66. I was just curious.

Sheesh. Never mind then.

[Tyler Durden]

50. He actually said the spirit of God was calling him.

Fine for a preacher, but for a politician?

Hey, he's the democrat. I'll vote for him, but he creeps me.

[bunnies]

52. Calling him to what?

God. Not calling him to the Presidency. And if I had a dollar for every time Ive heard a Christian speak like that, I'd be rich. They like to talk about hearing Jesus and feeling the spirit and what have you. Just seems like generic church speak to me.

Kinda like this: "I believe in the father, son, and Holy Spirit, and I have felt the presence of the Holy Spirit on many occasions in my years on this earth." - HRC

same old same old. :shrug:

[kentuck]

54. But he quotes the Sermon on the Mount....

which is the origin for the phrase, "bleeding heart liberal."

Liberalism has long supported these tenets of the Bible. If not in name, in practice. Help the poor, feed the hungry. The Democratic Party has deep roots in the Christian faith. Only in recent years has it been hidden or over-shadowed by the Religious Right movement.

[Tyler Durden]

58. I can quote the "Beatitudes" without being a Christian...

...Just as I can quote Nietzche without being a Nihilist, or Marx without being a Communist.

But I don't hear any of them talking to me.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

61. exactly!

And as for the Democratic Party having deep religious roots... If that is true, I have a problem with it.

[Tyler Durden]

62. Weird for us to be on exactly the same page...

I have Canadian relatives. Every time they hear that "GOD BLESS AMERICA" shit, they shake their heads, like you or I would on hearing some 5 year old spout nonsense.

The rest of the world thinks we're pretty silly, and I don't blame them.

[Hoof Hearted]

68. I think Nietzsche might be gaining some ground lately in my poor noggin'

Especially when I visit DU.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

73. I would like

to see a direct translation of the sermon on the mount, where it translates to "bleeding heart liberal."

I will wait.

I have searched around the internets tubes for a bit and am unable to find that phrase in an English translation of The Sermon on the Mount.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

55. For once

I finally agree with you.

This religiosity makes me want to scream.

[Tyler Durden]

57. People that "hear" God calling them....

Belong in the same ward with Randall P. McMurphy.

I know people who hear God talking to them: they have meds for it.

[LanternWaste]

67. One could hope to spared from specious interpretations also...

"Please spare us your fake indignation."

One could hope to spared from specious interpretations also, but I doubt we'll get a reprieve from either...

[ecstatic]

12. uh huh. Thanks for making McCain's job easier

The more we nitpick, the easier it is for McCain.

[Runcible Spoon]

30. what a load of bullshit.

:eyes:

[Bill McBlueState]

37. Do you really think open discussion on an internet message board hurts our candidate?

I don't.

[ecstatic]

45. decreases morale, enthusiasm, confidence... willingness to donate

and/or participate. Of course! But hey, we have to voice our "concerns."

[kentuck]

13. Is Obama "too Christian" to be the Democratic nominee ??

Won't that turn off a lot of Democratic voters? :-)

[Blue_Roses]

17. what is "too Christian"?

:shrug:

[kentuck]

19. "Too Christian" would be anything that might appeal to the "center"

of political thought in America. I was being facetious, but many Democrats, myself included, have been very wary of the close connection of religion to our political process. However, I think Obama is a very religious fellow with deep faith in his religion. In my opinion, he uses his religion to make himself a better person, one who thinks before he speaks, one who is compassionate and empathetic toward others. Personally, I don't have a problem with his religion up to this point. As far as his support for the Faith Initiative, I think in the near future many folks may appreciate help from the churches in taking care of our poor and hungry, which is what they should be doing in the first place.

[Blue_Roses]

39. I agree

:hi:

[AngryOldDem]

46. That is about the first sane post I have read here on the faith initiative.

And you are so right. How soon people forget that not that long ago it was mainly the churches -- mostly neighborhood churches -- that were on the front lines helping people in need. And they did a good job of it. The knee-jerk reactions that some here have to anything connected to religion has gone beyond amusing to just pure annoying. And it alienates BIG TIME those of us who work for such groups who know first hand 1) the government requirements for funding and 2) the massive government bureaucracy one must navigate in order to get help for the needy beyond basic food and shelter. And then people say they think the government can do a better job of fighting poverty going solo. What a laugh. Johnson's Great Society lives.

And as for Obama's comments -- I read the link and found nothing objectionable. I am taking the man at his word, and think he is sincere in what he says, unlike the man who is holding the office now.

[demokatgurrl]

14. No, not as long as he doesn't mind that I'm NOT. n/t

[krabigirl]

18. No, I just don't like that he talks about his faith all the time. I wish none of them did.

But it's America...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

28. it's not that

if the GOP are trying to play games and wrongly brand you with Osama Bin Ladin then you would go all out to make sure that people understand that your actual religion IS Christian.

[iamthebandfanman]

20. i dont care what religion

someone is...

so long as it stays THEIR religion and I dont have to hear about it or follow its rules.

[anonymous171]

21. The media is playing us, again.

Obama's view of religion is much more humanist than Bush's view. Obama sees (all) religion as a way to bring people together to work for a common goal. Bush views religion (Christianity, fundy style) as a tool to manipulate people to vote republican.

[pansypoo53219]

24. is ok, but i want a deist.

obama is more jesus christian, not an old testament 'christian'. that is a good thing. not that i am a jesus freak.

[pscot]

25. Their book advises

that they go into a closet to pray, and hide their light under a bushel. Good advice, in my estimation, though seldom heeded by politicians.

[On the Road]

26. I Think the Voting History

shows a tremendous prejudice against Greek Orthodox.

:smoke:

[LiberalPersona]

31. I don't give a flying....

as long as he doesn't use it in his policies and go shouting out that he's doing what god tells him like Chimps.

[Vinca]

32. As long as he accepts me as an atheist, I don't care what he is. nt

[Marrah_G]

34. I don' care what religion he is- I also don't want to hear about it all the time.

I realize this is wishful thinking and due to the state of the union I will probably have to hear about each and every politicians intimate relationship with their creator during every election cycle.

I reserve the right to still say "It makes me cringe".

[Bill McBlueState]

40. I think that's how most Americans feel and always have felt

The latest DU talking point -- that if you like your religion and your politics separate, you're "bashing" Christians -- is a load. I can't believe that so many people on this website fail to appreciate the difference between secularism and opposition to religion.

[Marrah_G]

41. Thank you! I was beginning to think I was losing it.

[Runcible Spoon]

43. I feel the same way.

I don't liken that he feels he needs to play up this whole "work of God" shit to pander to a sector of voters, but I really don't give a shit what religion he is. I just roll my eyes when I have to hear about it all the time.

[otohara]

35. It's Kinda Weird

having a candidate who wears his religion on his sleeve like Bush does.

I was watching a religious channel the other day - flipped on it by chance and it blew me away. It was a celebration of God, and country for the 4th of July holiday. OMG - the songs and production was un-freaking believable. This isn't church, it's Sunday AM concert series for the Christian crowd. In one scene, there's a video screen showing various shots of America and Christian families and guess who pops up on the screen? Yep, it's Dimson and Laura in church with their heads bowed, eyes closed.

The thought of them doing the same for Obama crossed my mind - would they? Would all these republican's post a picture of the new POTUS, a democrat, a black man?

God I hope not! But, I imagine Obama would love it if he made it to that status in the uber-big Christian churches across this country.

[JuniperLea]

38. I don't care, unless he imposes it on me

As I said in another thread:

I don't care if he worships blue oysters... as long as he doesn't impose his beliefs on me, or cause any changes to my life due to said beliefs, or uses my tax dollars to support programs based on said beliefs.

I still have a few rights left, this week anyway.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

49. I'm GLAD he is, because he couldn't win otherwise. N/T

[Peacetrain]

53. Doesn't bother me a bit!

But them I am a Christian, so I am sure that plays into it. But if he was Jewish, or Buddhist or any other faith body, would not bother me either. As long as no one starts demanding a state religion, I am good to go with what ever a person is. That is their buisness.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

56. I care about how he will govern - not his personal beliefs

I don't care what his personal religious beliefs might be. I just don't want an entaglement of church and state in his government. I'd feel the same way if he were strongly anti-religion in his personal life. I don't want government to get involved in either restricting religious freedom or helping to establish religion. Every politician might have many personal views and preferences about things. The same way I don't care about a politician's personal sex life, I don't care whether they are religious or not. Just don't force your beliefs on the rest of us, whatever they might be.

[H2O Man]

60. No, I'm not upset.

And I think he is doing the correct thing in addressing religious values in his campaign.

[TexasObserver]

64. I'm upset that Obama doesn't agree with me 100% on religion!!

Why can't Obama be exactly like me?!


But seriously, I'm glad he's a Christian. Kinda hard to run for president in this country if he isn't one.

[LWolf]

69. No,

although a non-christian nominee and/or president would certainly be a breath of fresh air.

Since that's currently unlikely, I'd like the kind of Christian that would extend this scripture to all public displays of faith:

<snip>

Matthew 6:5-6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."

[Whisp]

72. thanks, thats one of the most meaningful bible quotes there is...

applies to many things - giving to charity for one - if you advertise it you are doing a promo for yourself and lessen the value of giving from the heart.

I also like the one that says something to the effect:
if you enjoy your life here on earth and think everything is ducky as long as you are doing well for yourself, you probably won't make it to heaven.

or it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven. lolzers - cheney better get some skimpies for where he's going.

the bible has some really good passages - and some doozies as well from the OT.

[old mark]

70. Thought he was the antichrist/muslim satan.

I don't care.
I'd vote for him even if he was Irish.


mark

[Cha]

71. I am so not into

dogma but whatever floats anyone else boat in a good way is fine by me.

My sister is a Christian Dem and I remember when we were talking awhile ago about that movie "Passion For Christ" and somehow she goes, "Aren't you a Christian?" "No, I'm into the spiritual side of the Universe but no religion".