Obama denies shifting to reach political center

[wyldwolf]

Asked by a voter about accusations of flip-flopping, Democrat Barack Obama dismissed the notion Tuesday that he has been shifting stances on Iraq, guns and the death penalty to break with his party's liberal wing and court a wider swath of voters.

"The people who say this haven't apparently been listening to me," the likely Democratic presidential nominee said in response to a question at a town-hall style event.

Obama blamed criticism from "my friends on the left" and "some of the media" in part on cynicism that ascribes political motives for every move candidates make. "You're not going to agree with me on 100 percent of what I think, but don't assume that if I don't agree with you on something that it must be because I'm doing that politically," he said. "I may just disagree with you."

The Illinois senator was responding to a question from a self-described "reformed Republican" who said he worked for Democrat Bobby Kennedy four decades ago and thanked Obama for restoring "that faith."

"You had an interesting week off being accused of flip-flopping, which is mostly nonsense," the man said. He then asked Obama to restate his Iraq position, and Obama used the opportunity to dispel the idea he had changed his stances on a range of issues.

"I am somebody who is no doubt progressive. I believe in a tax code that we need to make more fair. I believe in universal health care. I believe in making college affordable. I believe in paying our teachers more money. I believe in early childhood education," Obama told his audience here. "I believe in a whole lot of things that make me progressive and squarely in the Democratic camp."

But, he said: "I'm not just somebody who is talking about government as the solution to everything. I also believe in personal responsibility. I also believe in faith."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080708/ap_on_el_pr/obama_center

[Ken Burch]

1. Progressives believe in personal responsibility too. And a lot of us are people of faith.

Also, no progressive EVER said that "government"(whatever that means)was the ABSOLUTE solution to everything.

I find most of Obama's statement reassuring, but I don't like the fact that you've used the quotes in it to bait people to your left, Wolfie.

[bunnies]

2. They just played a clip of this on MSNBC...

to which Shuster replied "Oh, so its OUR fault now?!" :banghead:

[NattPang]

6. The media is never responsible for anything

as far as they are concerned.

[blogslut]

8. Okay, that's funny

The poor wittle media. They never get a break.

:banghead: indeed.

[bunnies]

12. Yeah. And he got all huffy and insulted looking.

Because we all know the media pays keen attention and always reports the truth. :sarcasm: The woman that was with him AJ something (I think) got all pissy too. "Well I've been paying attention for 5 or 6 months now". :eyes:

Umm, no. Obviously you havent been.

[ellacott]

9. Shuster doesn't seem to understand a lot of things that Obama says

Makes me think that he doesn't like him and is showing his bias.

[LittleClarkie]

22. They labeled him the messiah, and then were shocked to find out he wasn't.

He never said he was. The media labeled him as such, and then set about proving that he isn't.

Like a hamster in it's wheel, they create a myth just so they can knock it down. I find that strange.

[bunnies]

24. Thats exactly it.

And is totally obvious. Yet so many refuse to see it. *sigh*

[GihrenZabi]

3. That doesn't like a progressive to me

Fair tax codes, universal health care, affordable college educations, higher teacher salaries, early childhood education...is this what defines a "progressive" in America?

I think I see part of the problem here - America is SO tilted to the Right that someone can say this with a straight face and actually get away with it!

Those are centrist views if I ever heard them - they're all common sense. There's no arguing intelligently AGAINST any of those positions. They aren't new, or radical - they're just long, long fucking overdue.

When I think of a "progressive," I think of someone who wants to take leaps forward. Yes, I understand that when we have as much work to do as we do in America that you have to take small steps before you leap, and perhaps we're just so fucked right now that moderate positions like this are all we can hope for, but Obama didn't just define himself as a progressive in my mind.

I want to hear Obama talking more about our government, and how it's failed us, how the system itself is broken. There are practical examples he could bring up - the collapse of Separation of Powers in the wake of the 2000 election and the war in Iraq. Meaningful, immediate examples which could become a springboard for serious reform.

If he campaigns on these ideas and wins big then he has the MANDATE to take them on!

Either he doesn't believe that the system is flawed, in which case I can't seriously consider him a progressive, or he doesn't have the faith in the American people he purports to inspire within all of us to think that said people would support him if he spoke truth to power.

It KILLS me that Obama is someone who COULD take that stand and who could STILL be massively electable, but he won't do it!

[pot luck]

11. He has talked about how the gov. has failed us

all throughout the primary. Right now he's focusing on the economy and trying to reassure a jittery GE crowd that he's not some scary black man who wants to enslave them.

[geek tragedy]

13. All of those things would represent 'progress'

so it's a pretty accurate term. Let's throw in action on global warming, extending all legal rights to LGBT citizens, etc etc.

[TooBigaTent]

14. Amen GihrenZabi. If he thinks of himself as progressive, we are in more trouble

than I feared.

Because he will have to compromise away about 80% of that in-reality-center-right position to get anything accomplished.

A true progressive would actually make most Amerikans run screaming for their sheets and guns and bibles.

[GarbagemanLB]

4. The only legit criticism of him is on the FISA issue. The 'faith-based' issue, the Iraq issue, and

his response to the court rulings are nothing new. There have been no 'flip-flops' on those issues, as anyone who has read his books knows.

The FISA thing is a flip-flop, and that pisses me off...but I can live with it.

[ellacott]

7. Agreed

[Political Heretic]

28. I don't even consider that a flip flop, just a bad decision

It's not because I want to give Obama some sort of a pass, I just really don't consider it a "flip-flop."

He still opposes telecom immunity, and has stated that he would work with Dodd and others to get it removed. Now, that could be a hollow promise, but still its consistent.

He never promised to vote against any bill with the word FISA in it, but he did oppose the previous bill. This bill is different. Yeah, it still sucks, but it is different. So not based on different information Obama is saying, I think telecom stinks, and I'll work with others to stop that part of the bill, but end the end I think this bill is important enough and "fixed" enough to be passed.

We can disagree with him on this (though I've speculated in the past that this was the politically smart thing for him to do) but I'm not really seeing it as a flip flop.

[DJ13]

5. Take this as a wakeup call

The Obama campaign needs to do a better job of managing the media.

[NattPang]

10. This becomes difficult when the media is the base of the opposition.

difficult indeed.

[depakid]

15. Hopefully, this is a sign that the campaign is beginning to respond to legitimate feedback

We shall see.

Hint: it's NOT the media that has created this widespread perception.

[bunnies]

16. So how exactly has Obama changed his position on Iraq?

Hint: He hasnt.

[depakid]

17. There are a HOST of issues, gratuitous statements and policies

announced over the past 3+ weeks that have created this perception- and I suspect the campaigns' internals are probably beginning to reflect the consequences of that.

Hint: pandering to the right is a proven losing "strategy," and in any case will no doubt close the enthusiasm gap with McCain.

[bunnies]

19. Perception doesnt equal fact.

The only thing he's changed his stance on is FISA. Everything else has been out there for a long time. It isnt his fault that people didnt bother to learn about him before now. And its unfair to accuse him of "flip-flopping" because people had a lack of knowledge.

The media is whipping people up and they're falling for it. As usual. FISA's legit, everything else is bunk.

[depakid]

20. That's true- yet there are PLENTY of facts to back this up

and they go well beyond FISA.

Progressive observers and analysts (including researchers like George Lakoff) aren't the corporate media- and they aren't naive- nor do they have an agenda to derail the campaign.

Bottom line: a candidate can only make so many statements that enable and legitimize right wing positions- and you can only toss so many supporters (and groups of supporters) under the bus before you have a major problem with how the candudate (rightly or wrongly) is perceived.

The Obama campaign has earned their recent spate of criticism. And the timing (with all those moves and statements coming in the weeks before July 4th, when people gather and talk) could hardly have been more ill advised.

Not only did that cause consternation and disillusionment among supporters, but it handed a fine narrative for the corporate media to run with.

[bunnies]

23. And still I've yet to see any of those "facts".

Just a lot of vague talk referring to them.

[depakid]

26. You must not read very many progressive sites.

Fairness doctrine: Bus.

Death Penalty: limited to murder? Bus

NAFTA opt out clause: Bus

Church and state: Bus

Given a little time, I might remember more (there've been several each week) but the bottom line remains the same:

Analysis: Obama's centrist emphasis gives GOP ammo

Four years ago, Republicans branded as a "flip-flop" even the slightest rhetorical or policy change by John Kerry and sent huge replicas of the casual sandals to bob around the Massachusetts Democrat's events, feeding an image of him as a wishy-washy panderer.

Fair or not, Kerry never recovered and lost to President Bush.

It's now the Republican weapon of choice against Obama.

<snip>

The GOP increasingly has sought to take advantage of any opportunity to permanently pin the flip-flopper label on Obama, with all its unappealing associations, and strip him of the shiny-new-penny one he's cultivated up to now.

"There appears to be no issue that Barack Obama is not willing to reverse himself on for the sake of political expedience," said Alex Conant, a spokesman for the national Republican Party.

It might be working. Despite disarray in Republican John McCain's camp, Bush's dismal approval ratings and just 17 percent of the public saying the nation is moving in the right direction, recent polls show Obama unable to build a solid lead over his GOP rival.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080705/ap_on_el_pr/obama_to_the_center

As I mentioned in another post, I suspect that the campaigns own internals are reflecting this- and hopefully, we'll see more focus on WINNING ISSUES, like the statements on the bankruptcy legislation.

[bunnies]

27. You still dont show me any facts that support Obama changing his positions.

I didnt ask for anyones opinion about GOP ammo. I asked for facts and you provided none. Again.

[Douglas Carpenter]

18. I NEVER imagined Sen. Obama was anything but a "centrist"

He certainly made that crystal clear in his debut on the national scene when he delivered the 2004 keynote speech at the Democratic National Convention.

I think rather than generically criticizing Sen. Obama for "moving to the center" a phrase which only reinforces right-wing talking points - not only about Sen. Obama but also a right-wing talking point about progressives as well - it may be more beneficial,for people who are sincerely disappointed or even upset with positions on specific issues taken by Sen. Obama that they would state specifically where they disagree and what specific position they feel Sen. Obama should take.

Approaching disagreements issue by issue would be more conducive to productive discussion. While criticizing an openly avowed centrist for moving to the center is practically a non squirter which only pushes the range of discussion farther to the right, reinforces negative right-wing talking points about Sen. Obama and reinforces the notion that even popular progressive positions are not mainstream and perpetuates a negative sterotype that progressives are simply purist nitpickers.

[seasat]

21. I wish folks would compare his policies to those of our past candidates

His platform is the most liberal in decades. His health care reforms, media reforms, international policy, and climate change proposals, just to name a few out of many, are to the left of positions Gore and Kerry ran with. It's almost like we can't be happy Democrats unless we're bitchin' about our candidate.

[TexasObserver]

25. The one of the left was on the right.

And the one on the right was in the middle.

[ulysses]

29. "Obama blamed"?

You picked some interesting spin to highlight.

To this, he adds, parenthetically: “And I must say some of this is my friends on the left” and those in the media.
“I am someone who is no doubt progressive,” he said, adding that he believes in universal health care and that government has a strong role to play in overseeing financial institutions and cracking down on abuses in bankruptcies and the like.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/08/obama-addresses-critics-on-centrist-moves/index.html?hp

Funny, I don't see any blame here. One might think you had an agenda...;-)

[wyldwolf]

30. Yeah, my agenda was quoting an article and, of course, causing the reaction you just had.

[ulysses]

31. I just think it's interesting

that you seem to enjoy fanning the flames of progressive frustration with the candidate while some of us on the left are trying to find constructive ways to engage the campaign. I'm interested in why that is.

[wyldwolf]

32. ha ha

you seem to enjoy fanning the flames of progressive frustration

I just think it's ... interesting.