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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 07:41 PM
Original message
Beyond FISA to January 2009
At this point we know what has gone on this board and the drama that FISA has caused. I'm not fond of the eviscerating remarks to Obama although I understand being critical of his position and of course of FISA. At this point, politically the GOP doesn't have much ground to attack Obama. National Security, was considered his weakest and that's fallen to the wayside (due in some part to the FISA vote) to focus on his children appearing on Access Hollywood. We also know very well that he basically PWNS McCain in everything else, future debates will prove that.

I have read the FISA and I actually support Obama (yup, one of the few). Yet, as I have stated in the past---I do not think this bill is perfect and we have to do better. I also want those to remember that terrorism is a fact this is not forgetting the disaster that is Iraq can not be ignored. As a New Yorker, I'm for protectionist measures as long as they don't infringe my rights. To touch on the past bills, one last time, I will say the PATRIOT ACT I & II ripped us all of our civil liberties before the new (and many times revised) FISA bill. The FISA bill actually reinstated some of those lost rights.

I'd be more horrified by anyone who had voted and supported the Patriot Act I or II since that thing is terrifying. Now that the voting is done for the FISA the Senate has spoken with a shot on the Dodd Amendment---all this with Obama following through on what he said he would do when this time came.

First of all I want to commmend him for being blunt with us and not treating us as many other politicians would have and kept us in the dark.

Here is the main purpose of the thread:


Obama: "Given the choice between voting for an improved yet imperfect bill, and losing important surveillance tools, I've chosen to support the current compromise. I do so with the firm intention -- once I’m sworn in as President -- to have my Attorney General conduct a comprehensive review of all our surveillance programs, and to make further recommendations on any steps needed to preserve civil liberties and to prevent executive branch abuse in the future. "

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/rospars/gGxsZF/

I'm upholding Obama to his statement here as I upheld him to his past positions and definitely to his position on FISA after reading his statement to us on his blog.

At this point no one can deny that Obama was in a tough spot. The GOP would have ate him alive had he chosen against and choosing for it causes the problesm from his side. However, this is more than just a political move it improves on the non-sense the Patriot Act allowed and caused, which many people here have chosen to forget. To scream an atrocity has been committed, it was committed with many Dems (Obama voted against) and Repubs supporting. When the Patriot Act passed majority of our civil liberties were shot to hell.


In any event, what we have to look forward to is the White House for Obama and making the changes. I'm taking Obama at his word and actually hope the first thing he does in office is take care of this bill or inact a new one resulting in the abolishment of the one currently passed. People seem to think Obama is already President and has unmitigated power. Keep in mind we still have 6 months before the new President is inaugurated, which means 6 more months of Bush. Which means 6 months of ANY THING CAN HAPPEN!!

At least here we can definitely hope for the best because every step so far from Obama has not lead me to believe that he would lie to his base support or the American people nor would he throw out our civil liberties but give them back to us.

That being said, I think we have to work together and towards the 2009 election, and really deal with the issues plaguing us when Obama has the POWER to implement some, if not all, our changes.
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LuckyTheDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree
We can revisit this whole thing after Obama is elected. But in the meantime, he MUST BE ELECTED. This is, at worst, a tactical retreat. With Obama in the White House, the cause of civil liberties will be enhanced. With McCain, it would be diminished.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Exactly and that's the main focus of my statement above. Looking towards Jan '09.
Then I'll really take him to task if he doesn't change things up.
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Diamonique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Exactly! We must keep our eyes on the prize! We *must* not let McCain win this thing! n/t
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I'm hoping people will refocus their energy on that *PRIZE*; right now with supporters like us he
doesn't need the GOP!!
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Exactly.
Obama has said repeatedly that one of his first acts as president will be to have his AG initiate a thorough constitutional review of all legislation, executive orders, and signing statements from the present administration. Then he will set to work amending or reversing those that are an abuse of power or otherwise unconstitutional.

I believe him and I support him 100%. But first he has to WIN in November.

Achieving an incontrovertable Democratic presidential and congressional sweep in November is OUR contribution to this process, because without it he won't be able to do what needs to be done.

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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. As you said, Obama chooses the AG. People seem to have forgotten this. Bush has 6 months and then
he's out. Obama takes the floor and he has the power, then he'll change everything and he'll take his AG to task to uphold the constitution. Damn this thread and the people going nuts.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Sure he will
He already took an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution - if he didn't mean the first time he took it why should I believe he'll mean it the next time? Once he's elected the story will change to "He'll restore the Consttitution in his second term but if he does it now, the Republicans will go after him and the most important thing is to get him reelected."

I have problems with several of Obama's positions from day one, but hack that I am, I was prepared to support him with money, time and my vote until he made it clear he doesn't have any more respect for the Constitution than Bush or McCain. My time will be going to other candidates and I think I'll send the money I had earmarked for him to the ACLU. I haven't decided what to do with my vote. It depends on what else he sells out on between now and November.


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